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(GRACE) Golf Ball VS Lance: The Targets Are Within Range, We Have A 50% Chance To Survive!

Psychomaster35

He/Him
VS Battles
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I've finally gotten around to updating the BFDI profiles, so why not put 2 rude, arrogant, and intelligent leaders with a love for tech (That are some of the best characters in the series) against each other?

Speed is equalized, both are 2-C, and the battle takes place at a plain grassfield. Both of them have all of their equipment and start 10 meters apart from each other, Golf Ball isn't competing in any season, and the Player is restricted for Lance.

Who wins?

Transphobia Victim: 7 (James Plays 4 Games, Kachon123, Arency, MysticBrawler, Kavopaco, MannyQ361, Psychomaster35)

Perverted Nazi:

Pencil and Natalie beat some sense into them: 2 (Ebihara, Topaz404)
 
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Well, i am gonna try and argue for Lance, but considering no player.....well it's random attacks Lance we go. Though- im pretty sure he at least has the smart AI (at least "smart" as in Wraith/Fallen AI?)
 
Not gonna lie, i dont like how this whole "yeah we're just going to act like random idiots" thing is being treated as fact when it's really just game mechanics, but yknow what, ill humor it one more time.
Anyways, whats Golf Ball's first move?
 
Not gonna lie, i dont like how this whole "yeah we're just going to act like random idiots" thing is being treated as fact when it's really just game mechanics, but yknow what, ill humor it one more time.
Anyways, whats Golf Ball's first move?
I fully agree. The last versus thread we argued this i just moved on for the sake of the thread. But I don't belive the scans provided show they can't fight without the player. We give him genius intelligence but he is fully incapable of making any action with intent once he enters battle. I just dont buy it. This might be somthing i make a CRT on it to either be more explicit with that yes they are entirely incapable of making conscious decisions in battle and at that point I don't think we can reasonably call him a genius. Cause right now it says "The Player", Lance doesn't actually fight by himself, but rather follows the orders and does what the Player tells him, even if it goes against his own will)" which to me and looking at the scans provided last time just shows me his actions are under the players control NOT that there actions are random in battle. Going by whats on the profile I just dont see how it's entirely random and the profile doesn't explicitly claim that either. But if we have to go off this wild assumption.

Ill vote incon, if there moves are entirely random and that wide in variety then I think there are too many factors to think otherwise.

Edit: spelling grammar.
 
I fully agree. The last versus thread we argued this i just moved on for the sake of the thread. But I don't belive the scans provided show they can't fight without the player. We give him genius intelligence but he is fully incapable of making any action with intent once he enters battle. I just dont buy it. This might be somthing i make a CRT on it to either be more explicit with that yes they are entirely incapable of making conscious decisions in battle and at that point I don't think we can reasonably call him a genius. Cause right now it says "The Player", Lance doesn't actually fight by himself, but rather follows the orders and does what the Player tells him, even if it goes against his own will)" which to me and looking at the scans provided last time just shows me his actions are under the players control NOT that there actions are random in battle. Going by whats on the profile I just dont see how it's entirely random and the profile doesn't explicitly claim that either. But if we have to go off this wild assumption.

Ill vote incon, if there moves are entirely random and that wide in variety then I think there are too many factors to think otherwise.

Edit: spelling grammar.
Or, you know, we could go with the more reasonable assumption that Lance (and by extension, the rest of the player characters) should be able to act like, yknow, intelligent human beings even without the players control. I have no idea how that conclusion was gotten to

its just
how RPGs work, even if the enemy is an old MC that can be later recruited
how is this any different?
 
In all fairness, many traditional turn-based RPG enemies are random at what they do which shows that their fighting style (Unless cutscenes prove otherwise) being random is canon.
Says......who? What? Then if thats the case, was Anna just firing off random arrows at Lance's machines when she was at Iron Fortress? Lance wouldve had to partake in fights in order to even get set up like he is

I am not computing at the moment
 
In all fairness, many traditional turn-based RPG enemies are random at what they do which shows that their fighting style (Unless cutscenes prove otherwise) being random is canon.
That is a massive leap in logic. Thats also not we have indexed basically any other rpg/jrpg. I just dont see in anyway how its random. I see how if the player is there they control there actions not the charcter, but nothing here is implying its random. I think there needs to be more solid proof that they are acting randomly we are currently basically just making an assumption of game mechs and ignoring other context.
 
If we're just assuming what he leads with based on his 3 fights, he's of course going to use his gun with his Valkyrie tank at his side. It's just that his actions (Specifically what move he decides to use with his gun) have been shown to be random in all of his fights (Potentially even more since by the time of his 3rd battle he had significantly less abilities than he had at the end of EBF5), but he will be guaranteed to use a limit break if his limit break bar fills up.
 
Again.....that's just game mechanics? Literally every enemy in the history of RPGs (even with characters that you can recruit going off to be boss fights/re-recruiting them) have always gone with a random style when it comes to their movesets. Sure, some are smarter then each other/have patterns. You dont see those characters having to suffer from that when a player isnt the one commanding them


So basically.....what is the point then of trying to argue that? Repeating the same arguments without proof wont do you very good
 
Again.....that's just game mechanics? Literally every enemy in the history of RPGs (even with characters that you can recruit going off to be boss fights/re-recruiting them) have always gone with a random style when it comes to their movesets. Sure, some are smarter then each other/have patterns. You dont see those characters having to suffer from that when a player isnt the one commanding them


So basically.....what is the point then of trying to argue that? Repeating the same arguments without proof wont do you very good
It doesn't matter if what they are shown to do in fights by themselves is dominated by game mechanics or not. What is shown is literally their canon fighting style unless cutscenes or statements prove otherwise. In this case, you very blatantly see Lance using random moves in his fights before he joins the Party. There's your proof. This is irrefutable.
 
It doesn't matter if what they are shown to do in fights by themselves is dominated by game mechanics or not. What is shown is literally their canon fighting style unless cutscenes or statements prove otherwise. In this case, you very blatantly see Lance using random moves in his fights before he joins the Party. There's your proof. This is irrefutable.
What proof explicitly says that's their canon fighting style, then? Who or what says that? Because i would really like to know. If that's proof, that's kinda poor proof
 
What proof explicitly says that's their canon fighting style, then? Who or what says that? Because i would really like to know. If that's proof, that's kinda poor proof
It's not that their canon fighting style is stated, but actually shown, given actions speak louder than words. We visibly see in all the battles he's been in before joining the Party which have him fight using random skills with the exception of him being guaranteed to use a limit break if his bar is filled up.
 
It's not that their canon fighting style is stated, but actually shown, given actions speak louder than words. We visibly see in all the battles he's been in before joining the Party which have him fight using random skills with the exception of him being guaranteed to use a limit break if his bar is filled up.
Which is how 100% of ALL RPG enemies work, Psycho. By your logic, everyone in every single RPG ever has to do this. How does that apply only to EBF5 and it's characters????
 
Which is how 100% of ALL RPG enemies work, Psycho. By your logic, everyone in every single RPG ever has to do this. How does that apply only to EBF5 and it's characters????
Please don't try to strawman my argument by implying that "everyone" includes playable characters and characters with an established fighting style in cutscenes, because I never included those types. If other RPGs have that issue where all their enemies' actions are random, then so be it: it's their fighting style. Simple as that.
 
Please don't try to strawman my argument by implying that "everyone" includes playable characters and characters with an established fighting style in cutscenes, because I never included those types. If other RPGs have that issue where all their enemies' actions are random, then so be it: it's their fighting style. Simple as that.
Im not trying to strawman you argument, im just pointing out the flaws in your argument. If we're just under the assumption that randomly picking moves and standing there, then it would affect many other turn based RPGs that cant rely on cutscenes as well. All enemies, and even all players, should be able to move, think, and act on their own accord when put into situations like this. If Genericus the Generic Protag of a simple 2D rpg like EBF isnt placed under that assumption, then why lump Matt into it as well?

Yknow what. This isnt the thread for that. im tired and frankly value my time here
 
In all fairness, many traditional turn-based RPG enemies are random at what they do which shows that their fighting style (Unless cutscenes prove otherwise) being random is canon.
Do you ever read the Battle Logic sections of each foe article and the set patterns put in said Battle Logic sections, like, at all? This is like saying fudging rolls in DnD is being completely random.
 
Do you ever read the Battle Logic sections of each foe article and the set patterns put in said Battle Logic sections, like, at all? This is like saying fudging rolls in DnD is being completely random.
Except that battle logic is based on fights that happens early in the game that would soon become outdated by the endgame where they likely go by completely different strategies due to them having way more abilities. Plus, you probably didn't read this, but I already acknowledged that as evident by me bringing up Lance being guaranteed to use a limit break if his bar fills up.
Im not trying to strawman you argument, im just pointing out the flaws in your argument. If we're just under the assumption that randomly picking moves and standing there, then it would affect many other turn based RPGs that cant rely on cutscenes as well. All enemies, and even all players, should be able to move, think, and act on their own accord when put into situations like this. If Genericus the Generic Protag of a simple 2D rpg like EBF isnt placed under that assumption, then why lump Matt into it as well?

Yknow what. This isnt the thread for that. im tired and frankly value my time here
Yes you were. You were literally saying things that I never mentioned at all in my arguments like saying the player-controlled characters and characters with established fighting styles in cutscenes are included. Meanwhile, this bold text here doesn't even imply that they will be strategic since that's up to cutscenes we see of them to decide if they will be strategic or not.
 
Idk, even with the "no player slot machine randomizer" it's pretty much a coin flip for golf ball to not get durability negated by like any magic attack Lance could fire out. It's like 8 out of 13 his attacks are wincon without bringing up like shared abilities.
 
I mean, as I've brought up earlier, Golf Ball's also got a shot at one-shotting. This isn't to say that Lance doesn't have his wincons since he has magic and various statuses that bypass Golfy's durability, it's just that without the Player, his actions are random with the exception of him being guaranteed to use a limit break when given the chance.
 
I suppose I vote for the match being inconclusive for the other voters' reasons.

This match seems pretty contentious at the moment because of the fighting style Lance has in gameplay. I haven't experienced Epic Battle Fantasy, so I'm only going by what I've read. Psychomaster35's idea is that Lance's attacks are canonically random without the player's guidance because that's all we've been shown, and the other people's idea is that the randomness is non-canon due to only being a result of the game's programming and contradicting Lance's genius intelligence. Am I right?

One thing we should set straight with each other is that Lance isn't a combat expert according to his profile: "Intelligence: Genius (Lance is an engineer proficient in building complex machinery. His two most notable creations are the Valkyrie Tank and the Scan Bot. He also appears to have deep knowledge in how Nuclear fusion works. Additionally, he can apparently learn the weakness of any enemy with his "Scan Bot". However, as an avatar of "The Player", Lance doesn't actually fight by himself, but rather follows the orders and does what the Player tells him, even if it goes against his own will)." Lance is an expert engineer and fusion energy scientist, and he is able to understand information gained against an opponent in a fight.

You might be tempted to think "going for the insta-win hax in a fight is the obvious option" or something like that, but this undermines how much skill it takes to fight adeptly. It's easy for us to stay comfortable watching fantastically competent fictional combatants fight to the death, but imagine really being in a fight to the death where you must actively make quick choices and no mistakes or else you'll start to fail and undergo the stress of losing everything. It's a feat for someone to not be too mentally overwhelmed in a life or death situation to do anything to efficiently succeed in such a situation, let alone be capable of thinking quickly to use the exact combat technique for the exact situation it's needed in. A combatant using random techniques upon being forced into a fight to the death is not being "like random idiots" nor "entirely incapable of making conscious decisions."

Regardless of whether or not Lance's combat style is truly random, if we are only shown that it is random as a game mechanic, and otherwise, the character specializes in skills that aren't centered around combat and we know nothing about their canonical combat style other than using scanned information to their advantage, then it takes assumptions to narrow Lance's combat style down to something specific that would significantly benefit him in a versus match. Although it's not preferable due to using game mechanics as a basis, it takes no assumptions to conclude Lance's combat style is random, other than the assumption that the game mechanic reflects canon, which could potentially be justified by the notion that "it's how a realistically unskilled combatant would fight." However, with the player's guidance, Lance must have gained a lot of experience on what choices lead to good results in a fight, so his fighting style is probably not random in the most literal sense. Perhaps a good course of action would be to analyze the kinds of battles Lance participated in while being guided by the player, and try figuring out what Lance could've learned through observation. It's not as though Lance isn't awake and attentive when being controlled by the player, right?
 
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