- 9,261
- 3,388
Honestly I don’t get this, now ur saying he’s faster than carnage but that doesn’t make his bloodlusted self ap scale despite literally ripping his face apart?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
- Thread starter Vizer04
- Start date
- 11,807
- 7,371
...because he holds back, like your given scan states, in fact the EXACT same scenario, where it implies Spider-Man non-held back absolutely devastates Scorpion's unarmored jaw. Read the shit you yourself post before snarking.
And this is because it took him 6 individual hits to make the symbiote weak enough to loosen grasp over Norman's face. He IS faster than Carnage, pretty basic assertion, and if you're knocking a person down with SIX FULL-POWER PUNCHES to their face, that's still you being <<< them.
Do you purposely omit stuff from your mind to argue further? Like it's not particularly tough to grasp what I'm saying here.
- 11,807
- 7,371
And again, give me the scan stating this rage-amp mechanic, you've only given me scans which are CONVENIENT to your headcanon, not a single scan which STATES your headcanon as the explanation.
Like there has to be shit stated the way you're wanting it to be stated, you can build off them, here you're just giving no foundation for your thing.
You've given foundation for holdbacc MAYBE, but its completely nonsensical if you realise we list a LIMITING FEAT at the High 8-C, there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER for Spider-Man to hold back when lifting Daily Bugle, but he's getting strained as all hell over it.
Like there has to be shit stated the way you're wanting it to be stated, you can build off them, here you're just giving no foundation for your thing.
You've given foundation for holdbacc MAYBE, but its completely nonsensical if you realise we list a LIMITING FEAT at the High 8-C, there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER for Spider-Man to hold back when lifting Daily Bugle, but he's getting strained as all hell over it.
- 11,807
- 7,371
Two people debating isn't a consensus, and this isn't a subjective distinction so far, thus a "consensus" is irrelevant. It's a CRT, not an election.
- 11,807
- 7,371
Why's that relevant to your thread anyways, you should be working on keeping it focused, not asking consensus for unrelated revisions :v
- 11,807
- 7,371
I feel like the Agent Venom thing is thoroughly rejected.
In regards to Toxin, I feel like DDM's statement for "outfighting=/=AP" is valid, and I'll ask Weekly for sourced scans for the strength superiority between symbiotes, since I don't believe its the same scan, no?
In regards to Toxin, I feel like DDM's statement for "outfighting=/=AP" is valid, and I'll ask Weekly for sourced scans for the strength superiority between symbiotes, since I don't believe its the same scan, no?
Vizer04
He/Him- 5,166
- 3,063
- Thread starter
- #49
If you know about anyone knowledgeable on Marvel Comics, please tell them about this thread to know their opinions.
- 12,669
- 9,618
Also you ever gonna source these scans in your op?
- 31,372
- 34,118
I'd make one thing clear, if it was a game of tug of war, where Edward Brock was pulling with more force than the combined might of Venom and Carnage, I could see that as AP given the initial High 8-C+ calc comes from lifting the GPE of a large building. And it's obviously a lifting strength multiplier. It be a different story if their individual APs were deviated from lifting strength/GPE however.
And regardless, this isn't the case here. This is just Brock outfighting a tag team, which is mostly skill feat combined with having ballpark level but not quite 2x multiplier level strength/AP feat.
And regardless, this isn't the case here. This is just Brock outfighting a tag team, which is mostly skill feat combined with having ballpark level but not quite 2x multiplier level strength/AP feat.
- 11,099
- 4,323
Using a multiplier would definitely be inappropriate, but the question is are they superior enough to upscale, which could be reasonable imo.
- 11,807
- 7,371
Again tho I need a sourced scan that says Toxin is PHYSICALLY stronger than Carnage/Venom :v
There is no reason to say Toxin is stronger than Venom + Carnage in terms of physicals, there is a PRESUMPTION, and said presumption can just be in context to hax, or speed, or anything else. Toxin IS like more versatile than both Venom and Carmage iirc.
There is no reason to say Toxin is stronger than Venom + Carnage in terms of physicals, there is a PRESUMPTION, and said presumption can just be in context to hax, or speed, or anything else. Toxin IS like more versatile than both Venom and Carmage iirc.
- 11,807
- 7,371
Given the scan, yes :v
- 32,835
- 38,104
Nah, AFAIK it comes from Rhino scaling to Mettle, who has a High 8-C+ calc of 7.98-ish tons of TNT. Spidey's GPE calc is plain High 8-C without the +.
And Venom almost killed Sandman, who is apparently equal to Rhino.
Last edited:
Vizer04
He/Him- 5,166
- 3,063
- Thread starter
- #58
Seriously, what scans do you want? It's clear as day that Toxin is leagues above the other symbiotes:
1. Carnage is confirmed to be stronger than Venom, by a large margin
2. While bonded to Patrick Mulligan, Toxin was able to overpower Venom and Carnage simultaneously
3. Eddie is a much suitable host for the symbiote and therefore, much stronger
4. Again, the AP difference to upscale is of 1.37 times, hardly a significant gap
- 32,835
- 38,104
I think it could work, given that Venom could easily kill Sandman by just chomping on him in Peter Parker: Spider-Man Issue 16 (The source on Venom's profile), so he by himself would upscale from Sandman who scales to Rhino, so...
That and I seriously doubt that we don't have some statements for Carnage and co. being stronger than the combined might of those dudes, there has to be a scan somewhere where the word "combined" is involved alongside Carnage and Toxin in one way or another.
That and I seriously doubt that we don't have some statements for Carnage and co. being stronger than the combined might of those dudes, there has to be a scan somewhere where the word "combined" is involved alongside Carnage and Toxin in one way or another.
- 12,669
- 9,618
- 167,678
- 76,256
Well, he has been stated and shown to be much stronger than either of them, and to qualify as "Class 50" in strength according to the handbooks as well.
- 11,099
- 4,323
Weekly sent me this message yesterday that I didn't see: "Venom is already on the high end of High 8-C, Carnage is canonically vastly stronger than venom, and toxin is canonically vastly stronger than carnage to the point that a weaker host of Toxin stomped Carnage without even needing to transform just from the amount Toxin empowered him"
- 12,669
- 9,618
We should probably wait for Impress.
Anyway, can you get the sources? What run/issue?
Anyway, can you get the sources? What run/issue?
- 167,678
- 76,256
- 20,529
- 17,432
I like "At least Hight 8-C" more but if others want to upscale Toxin to 8-B I really wouldn't care.
EDIT: Wait actually. Nothing can be applied. The OP has never gave a source for any of the comic scans.
EDIT: Wait actually. Nothing can be applied. The OP has never gave a source for any of the comic scans.
Last edited:
- 11,807
- 7,371
I'll straight up not let this thread get accepted tbh, since OP still hasn't given sources for his scans after days of Confluctor asking :/
Neither has he given proper scans to me for Toxin being explicitly, physically > Carnage, and Weekly states he is unable to give them because of computer issues.
Do those two things, and until they happen this thread is pointless. They're not hard asks, hell this shit will be asked in every platform you submit this assertion to, and something the OP should ALREADY HAVE.
Neither has he given proper scans to me for Toxin being explicitly, physically > Carnage, and Weekly states he is unable to give them because of computer issues.
Do those two things, and until they happen this thread is pointless. They're not hard asks, hell this shit will be asked in every platform you submit this assertion to, and something the OP should ALREADY HAVE.
- 11,807
- 7,371
Firstly NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THESE ARE SOURCED TO THE COMIC THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE FROM.
And Jesus dude, I'm not being cryptic, there has to be a scan where Carnage or Venom or someone says Toxin is physically stronger than them, explicitly. Just get that, with the source comic.
Like, it's not even me being stonewall-ey, I just straight up remember it being said at one point, you're supposed to get me that. But you just absolutely refuse to, for some reason.
Carnage isn't 8-B. Toxin isn't Carnage.
Have you read your own thread thus far? This alone isn't enough. This can very well be done through a bajillion factors than raw strength. Hell it looks like a versatility claim in the scan you provide.
Proof of this mechanic, word-by-word?
...so? "It's not a big deal" isn't a valid argument.
Like, saying shit is easy. We all can do it. Prove it. It's not even tough, Toxin TOTAL is only 40 issues. A day's work at WORST.
Last edited:
- 12,669
- 9,618
Has to do it myself. Anyway, the scans in the OP - the first part, at least - are from Venom C's Carnage Vol 1 4.
Also I am not sure if you read the first issue of this run, but the process of birth leaves symbiotes weakened for a while.
Also I am not sure if you read the first issue of this run, but the process of birth leaves symbiotes weakened for a while.
- 11,807
- 7,371
So is the notion it"s overpowering weakened Venom and Carnage? Best provide a scan for that rq
- 12,669
- 9,618
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/gpeEc25B-...fCzTWb-pSTSFvNAcQWrVHkxlYxosFhPkSZIcSKiNBw=s0
When Carnage gave birth, he said he was in pain and took a lot out of him.
When Carnage gave birth, he said he was in pain and took a lot out of him.
- 11,807
- 7,371
meh, seems kinda sus
Vizer04
He/Him- 5,166
- 3,063
- Thread starter
- #75
@Antvasima well, i guess this should be closed
- 11,807
- 7,371
Could you not find the scan I asked for, Vizier?
XVII
They/Them- 422
- 180
hey, uh, @The_Impress i got some scans of toxin stomping carnage
here:
they are from The Monster Inside Me, although i don't know the exact issue
if i did something wrong, i'm sorry, i'm kind of a newbie to this whole crt thing
here:
they are from The Monster Inside Me, although i don't know the exact issue
if i did something wrong, i'm sorry, i'm kind of a newbie to this whole crt thing
XVII
They/Them- 422
- 180
i got this from quora, idk if it's acceptable of not, but it has the scans
www.quora.com
Who would win in a fight, Toxin, Carnage, or Venom?
Answer (1 of 11): Toxin is a spawn of Carnage, automatically making him exponentially stronger. Carnage is stronger than both Spider-Man and Venom combined. Now you have Toxin, who is more than likely to be stronger than both Carnage and Venom combined. Toxin stomps here.
- 11,807
- 7,371
Yeah the issue with this arc is, supposedly Carnage was in a weakened state during this, post-birth :v
Even in those fights though, 's kinda sus Toxin's >> Carnage, he just tosses him around a bunch and BFRs him.
Nah you didn't
Checked them... not the best scans to show Toxin's laughably upscaling Carnage there I feel :vi got this from quora, idk if it's acceptable of not, but it has the scans
Who would win in a fight, Toxin, Carnage, or Venom?
Answer (1 of 11): Toxin is a spawn of Carnage, automatically making him exponentially stronger. Carnage is stronger than both Spider-Man and Venom combined. Now you have Toxin, who is more than likely to be stronger than both Carnage and Venom combined. Toxin stomps here.
