1-B Archie Sonic? A Total No-Brane-er! (Cosmology and AP Upgrade)

[Causalist]

The Archie continuity of Sonic The Hedgehog is already accepted to share the same cosmology as Sonic Boom, with the two even having cross-over scaling accepted as a possibility, so this cosmology upgrade will be pulling evidence from both.

String Theory

First mentioned here as what seems to be a throwaway line for the sake of a gag…


String theory is once again mentioned in the following episode

(Sadly the best link I could provide due to the episode being blocked in my country on Youtube)

In this one, Eggman is working on a miniature black hole generator, using his research from the episode prior. His machine ends up being a success, and he re-iterates string theory when explaining his methodology. This means that string theory is canon within the Archie/Boom continuity.

Brane Cosmology
This is what zones in Archie are shown to look like:
https://imgur.com/gallery/b-7DgPInx

By comparison, this is a brane cosmology

Much like how a cosmological structure which contains what appears to be a starry sky can be assumed to be 4-A and one which contains a tesseract can be assumed to be spatially 4D, this cosmology in which universes are visually portrayed as identical to brane can be assumed to operate under brane cosmology.

How do we know string theory and brane cosmology both apply to the Pre-Genesis Wave multiverse and the Post-Genesis one?
I could point to Occam’s Razor since we have no reason to assume the SGW would rewrite such things out of existence, but instead I’ll point to Blaze’s Sol dimension, her home world which was shielded from the effects of the SGW. Since it canonically remains the exact same across both eras of the franchise, and should not be fundamentally any different from the other Zones/universes in the series, both principles should apply to it, and by extension, to the rest of the cosmology.

Conclusion
While string theory makes it so that the cosmology should inherently have 11 dimensions, brane cosmology makes it so that each dimension is inherently superior to the last on a trans-infinite level. With Archie cosmology (minus Off-Panel) already being 1-C (7D) without it, implementing these new concepts into it would make it 1-B (13D)

Addressing a potential counterargument
https://imgur.com/gallery/b-7DgPInx
In the first scan, zones appear to be planets. In the second, formless energy that resembles a galaxy. This should bring inconsistency to the notion that zones are branes, right? Except the appearance of zones as planets is already inconsistent with them being accepted as universes. We’ve gone over this thoroughly in the past, and since that argument doesn’t work to debunk the notion that zones are of universal scale rather than planetary, it shouldn’t work here either. More importantly, the second scan is specifically for a universal model within itself, while the one I provide to prove brane cosmology is specifically looking at the relation between universes, so nothing in it has any reason to be contradictory to my premise.

Scaling
-As far as I know, everyone who is 2-C or lower should be unchanged by this

-Illumina and Solaris go from Low 1-C (5D) to High 1-C (11D) (Likely 1-B for Solaris)

-Every 1-C character becomes 1-B, with Deadline being 14D via Off Panel

Agree:
Disagree (3): @BestMGQScalerEver, @Omnificence, @Humanitus_Primevilus888, @TheOrangeGuy09
Neutral:

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Yea.... no.

 

[Hasty12345]

disagree FRA

 

[Causalist]

Yea.... no.

Reasoning?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Reasoning?

I dunno maybe you using a silly and fun wikipedia example/visualization as actual proof of it being brane cosmology..? Your scan for archie just shows parallel worlds being ran through by a world perpendicular to them and is in no way actual proof for brane cosmology just because it's vaguely similar to the wikipedia visualization.

 

[Causalist]

I dunno maybe you using a silly and fun wikipedia example/visualization as actual proof of it being brane cosmology..? Your scan for archie just shows parallel worlds being ran through by a world perpendicular to them and is in no way actual proof for brane cosmology just because it's vaguely similar to the wikipedia visualization.

Any proof that it's "silly and fun" and not meant to be the most accurate depiction of a brane cosmology that can be represented with our human understanding? I don't think the point of it is to be silly and fun, but I do want to hear you out. How would you depict such a cosmology, and why do you not even think a "possibly" could be suitable here given how this is no different from our standards regarding cosmological structures with what appear to be starry skies or tesseracts?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Any proof that it's "silly and fun" and not meant to be the most accurate depiction of a brane cosmology that can be represented with our human understanding? I don't think the point of it is to be silly and fun, but I do want to hear you out. How would you depict such a cosmology, and why do you not even think a "possibly" could be suitable here given how this is no different from our standards regarding cosmological structures with what appear to be starry skies or tesseracts?

Mf the point is your evidence is as brittle as dry spaghetti. You're taking a thing that seems vaguely familiar to that visual depiction with no actual concrete relation to brane cosmology here such as a statement in same context as it as well as trying to relate it to a random string theory statement that is in no way used in same context as that image.

Things like starry skies and tesseracts are also rather specific enough to get something from it while this isn't. It's a generic depiction of dimensions/planes parallel to each other.

 

[Omnificence]

Absolutely not! Disagree fra.

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

Yh no….since the reasoning is dry and lack of in-depth research. This is more towards parallel worlds than higher dimensional theory itself

 

[Causalist]

Mf the point is your evidence is as brittle as dry spaghetti.

Chill.

You're taking a thing that seems vaguely familiar to that visual depiction

It's pretty much identical to me. How similar would it have to be more than "vaguely familiar"?

with no actual concrete relation to brane cosmology here such as a statement

"such as a statement" or are you saying a statement is required?

in same context as it as well as trying to relate it to a random string theory statement that is in no way used in same context as that image.

Why would the string theory statement need to be used in the exact same context?

Things like starry skies and tesseracts are also rather specific enough to get something from it while this isn't. It's a generic depiction of dimensions/planes parallel to each other.

The real generic depiction are orbs. This is at least distinct enough to be a possibillity.

Absolutely not! Disagree fra.

Counted

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Disagree FRA.

You’re gonna have to try a little harder than THAT.

 

[Causalist]

Yh no….since the reasoning is dry and lack of in-depth research. This is more towards parallel worlds than higher dimensional theory itself

I wanted to keep it as straightforward as possible instead of writing a bible of useless theoridical physics rambling. For the sake of constructive criticism, what kind of in-depth research were you hoping for?

 

[Snek]

Does string theory make a verses cosmology 11D by the site's standards?

 

[MysticMania]

disagree FRA

No reasons were given at the time of you saying "For Reasons Above" from what I see.

 

[Causalist]

Does string theory make a verses cosmology 11D by the site's standards?

11D? Yes. But not High 1-C. You need brane cosmology for that. As seen in Gurren Lagan's cosmology page

 

[Hasty12345]

No reasons were given at the time of you saying "For Reasons Above" from what I see.

Yea.... no.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

No reasons were given at the time of you saying "For Reasons Above" from what I see.

It’s a joke.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Branes don't even look like that lol.

Disagree FRA.

 

[Shmooply]

 

[Causalist]

Branes don't even look like that lol.

Disagree FRA.

If you could elaborate and back up your statement, that would save all of us a lot of time.

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

I wanted to keep it as straightforward as possible instead of writing a bible of useless theoridical physics rambling. For the sake of constructive criticism, what kind of in-depth research were you hoping for?

“I wanted to keep it as straightforward as possible instead of writing a bible of useless theoridical physics rambling”
…tf are you on about? You’re the one who bring up the reason why it is highly connected to String-theory and it’s your burden to explain it why is it in the first place. here is why I disagree:

1. Not Enough Evidence

Saying Archie Sonic's multiverse is based on string theory isn't backed up by enough proof. Just because the zones might look like something from string theory doesn't mean the concept applies. There's no clear explanation or lore in the series that supports the idea of higher dimensions or branes, so it more like a mere assumption than something solid.

2. What String Theory Is

It says that the universe is made of tiny vibrating strings, existing in 10 or 11 dimensions, with some dimensions folded up and hidden. It also talks about how these dimensions interact using branes. If the Archie Sonic universe doesn't explain or show any of this in its story, you can't just assume it works like string theory.

3. Connecting Occam's Razor to the sonic verse

Occam's Razor is a principle that says the simplest explanation is usually the best one.
Since there's no strong evidence that Sonic's multiverse involves string theory, then it means it doesn’t . multiverse of parallel universe is more fitting according to the scans you show

 

[Theuser789]

I tentatively agree for now, but I am in no means an expert on any tier 1 stuff. I would rather wait for an expert on the topic to elaborate. A lot of people are disagreeing but tbh most aren't even giving an explanation on why.

 

[Starsprite53]

Studying existing theories, such as string theory, and inventing something based on those studies does not objectively mean that the universe in question operates on that theory. For example, claiming that our universe is inherantly 11-dimensional simply because hundreds of physicists base their research on string theory would be a flawedd conclusion.
To affirm that a verse fundamentally operates according to a specific theory, it must be explicitly stated within the narrative how the theory applies and governs the universe. Otherwise, the connection is speculative at best and does not hold as definitive proof.
Also, there is the issue of how tf the show is even considered canon to the comics???

 

[Ednaxel2]

I thought we didn’t count string theory cause of the dimensions being condensed or something?

 

[StrymULTRA]

If you could elaborate and back up your statement, that would save all of us a lot of time.

Ok so...

1. Random mentions of it aren't enough for the verse's cosmology actually having it, as there must be more solid proof of the verse using so. Gravity Falls and TTGL are that high right because of the fact that they make multiple hints to said theory actually being a thing in their cosmologies as you can see in their cosmology explanations.
2. The evidence you use for the verse following branes is incomplete.

This is what zones in Archie are shown to look like:
https://imgur.com/gallery/b-7DgPInx

By comparison, this is a brane cosmology

NGL that Wikipedia video is incomplete.

What you see as parallel pieces of paper are the lower-dimensional membranes that are within the higher-dimensional realm and connected through "bulks", where said membranes are infinitely thin in said realm.

I'd really suggest you to read this for better understanding on the matter, as just basing yourself on a single Wikipedia video without bothering to check yourself how the theory works is foolish and isn't a good impression at all.

For people who didn't read what I linked, in short how a 5D brane is compared to 4D membranes is this:

As you can see, in both cases the 4D branes (which you can think of as your average Universal+ space-time continuum) are infinitely thin pieces of paper within the 5D realm, which you can think here as Low Complex Multiversal due to it having actual superiority over said infinitely small membranes.

In fact, Gravity Falls and Gurren Lagann have both some visual evidence of being somehow similar to this model at least:

You see the difference? These examples are textbook showings of the Bulk Cosmology, yours instead is this:

Branes do not work like that, they're not perpendicular universes that pass through other ones perpendicularly, they're higher-dimensional universes that envelop the lower-dimensional ones within themselves as infinitely thin membranes.

While string theory makes it so that the cosmology should inherently have 11 dimensions, brane cosmology makes it so that each dimension is inherently superior to the last on a trans-infinite level. With Archie cosmology (minus Off-Panel) already being 1-C (7D) without it, implementing these new concepts into it would make it 1-B (13D)

Branes also aren't automatically 11D. Gurren Lagann is because the evidence makes it extra clear that the Bulk is 11-Dimensional, hence why it's High 1-C. Gravity Falls also follows it, but is merely Low 1-C, possibly 1-B for now because of these extra dimensions not having really solid proofs of being superior to the lower ones, as by default they're just strings, aka 1-D lines that take higher-dimensional angles up to 11-D (or more depending on the model used).

TLDR: OP saw 2 random things online and instantly jumped to making an upgrade without bothering to look deep in why other verses qualify for it.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also, skimming through this...

Why is this "cosmic interstate" assumed to have 4 spatial dimensions? Nothing really suggests it has a spatial axis more, it more has space working differently from your average 3+1D reality because of it being perpendicular compared to them, not because it has an extra axis.

Yes I am turning this in a downgrade thread.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also:

1. When was Sonic Boom accepted as being canon in Archie?
2. I'd need more scans for this:

In this one, Eggman is working on a miniature black hole generator, using his research from the episode prior. His machine ends up being a success, and he re-iterates string theory when explaining his methodology. This means that string theory is canon within the Archie/Boom continuity.

Rn the only evidence is Eggman mentioning String Theory twice, but without scans/evidence about all of this, I am unsure tbf.

 

[Theuser789]

When was Sonic Boom accepted as being canon in Archie?

In Worlds Unite. Boom comic is explicitly canon to that crossover and show as part of the cosmology (Sticks from the Boom universe is a major part of the crossover). It's the same reason Mega Man comics are canon to Archie.

 

[Starsprite53]

In Worlds Unite. Boom comic is explicitly canon to that crossover and show as part of the cosmology (Sticks from the Boom universe is a major part of the crossover). It's the same reason Mega Man comics are canon to Archie.

Yeah the comic version and the scans are from the show, why the comics is canon to the show?

 

[Theuser789]

Yeah the comic version and the scans are from the show, why the comics is canon to the show?

Pretty sure all Boom media is canon to each other.

 

[ShakeResounding]

it more has space working differently from your average 3+1D reality because of it being perpendicular compared to them, not because it has an extra axis.

Incorrect. The Cosmic Interstate isn't what runs perpendicular to every Zone, that is Zonic's Zone. The Cosmic Interstate is what is between all realities If your aim is to downgrade a verse then you can't be unknowingly spewing false information, chad

Neutral regarding the thread, leaning towards disagreement.

 

[AwkguyDB]

I agree with STRYM

 

[StrymULTRA]

Incorrect. The Cosmic Interstate isn't what runs perpendicular to every Zone, that is Zonic's Zone. The Cosmic Interstate is what is between all realities

The wording in your blog is weird, because it seems to talk only about Zonic's Zone indeed, which is definitely irrelevant about the superiority of the interstate.

Is there anything suggesting it having an additional spatial axis? I don't see any in that part, and I'm sure as hell we don't make any space between universes Low 1-C.

 

[ShakeResounding]

The wording in your blog is weird, because it seems to talk only about Zonic's Zone indeed, which is definitely irrelevant about the superiority of the interstate.

It's fully relevant. The Perpendicular Zone intersects with all Zones, and the Cosmic Interstate is a gateway to all Zones, meaning the Cosmic Interstate would need to encompass it. We know this because:

1. The Cosmic Interstate can bring you to any part of any Zone (and standard Zones are currently accepted as infinite) that must be traversed by PHYSICAL MOVEMENT.
2. It physically connects the infinite Zone of the multiverse together.
3. The Cosmic Interstate lies between universes.

and I'm sure as hell we don't make any space between universes Low 1-C.

Not in a tierable way by default, but you might wanna double check your presuppositions. There exists such a thing as "insignificant 5-D" as I'm sure you're aware.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Also forgive me but I'm at work now so I'll be super busy until 7 hours from now but can potentially squeeze in time here and there to message.

Apologies in advance.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It's fully relevant. The Perpendicular Zone intersects with all Zones, and the Cosmic Interstate is a gateway to all Zones, meaning the Cosmic Interstate would need to encompass it. We know this because:

1. The Cosmic Interstate can bring you to any part of any Zone (and standard Zones are currently accepted as infinite) that must be traversed by PHYSICAL MOVEMENT.
2. It physically connects the infinite Zone of the multiverse together.
3. The Cosmic Interstate lies between universes.

All of this can be made via a bigger 2-A.

Not in a tierable way by default, but you might wanna double check your presuppositions. There exists such a thing as "insignificant 5-D" as I'm sure you're aware.

It applies even here. We've dropped the "Low 1-C space through holding infinite universes in itself" long ago, unsure why is this applying here.

 

[Snek]

I disagree with brane theory but I agree with the string theory addition since boom sharing a cosmology with archie has been accepted.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I disagree with brane theory but I agree with the string theory addition since boom sharing a cosmology with archie has been accepted.

These things are like strongly related, you can't have one without the other.

 

[Starsprite53]

I disagree with brane theory but I agree with the string theory addition since boom sharing a cosmology with archie has been accepted.

The evidence for it is almost non-existent, Ian Flynn even said that Boom (The Show) and Archie are not connected

 

[Omegabronic]

The evidence for it is almost non-existent, Ian Flynn even said that Boom (The Show) and Archie are not connected

......dude, why derailing the thread by discussing something already accepted? Just make another thread for it