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1-A for Living Tribunal?
- Thread starter Alonis3612
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- #42
That was not my claim for him being 1-A.Antvasima said:
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- #44
He doesn not just embody them, he transcends them likewise.Antvasima said:
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Then we assume that The Beyonders are 1-A also?
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- #48
Well he transcends dualities which should include un-time and un-space, making him at least 1-A.Antvasima said:
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- #49
No, the version which fought the Beyonders was likely 1-B, my claim is that 1-A should be for LT's strongest incarnation/M-Body/True self.PaChi2 said:
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Since when was the gap from High 1-B to 1-A bigger than the gap from 11-C to High 1-B?
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Since always?
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Nothing the Tribunal says here is very direct proof of 1-A, nor are they statements that have not been made for characters far lesser than him, both in and out of Marvel.
The Tribunal was still killed by entities who were very clearly bound by their own form of time, on top of never demonstrating superiority to the other multi-abstracts (sans Oblivion) on a conceptual level. He does not have statements remotely in the same league as someone such as Oblivion.
The Tribunal was still killed by entities who were very clearly bound by their own form of time, on top of never demonstrating superiority to the other multi-abstracts (sans Oblivion) on a conceptual level. He does not have statements remotely in the same league as someone such as Oblivion.
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That was 1) weakened Tribunal, 2) apparently 1-B version of him.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
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I'm not referring to the Chaos and Order incident. I mean the Beyonders, who killed the true Tribunal.Alonis3612 said:
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- #55
I was speaking about the same instance.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
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What suggests he was weakened on such a conceptual level that he dropped that far, in that instance?
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I like how the entire internet but VsBattlesWiki considers Marvel superior to DC but here it's not even a contest.
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You can mostly thank unfounded claims such as "Michael + Lucifer = TLT" or "TLT is nigh-omnipotent" for stuff like that.
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Beyonders already killed a lot of beings such as Celestials and Abstracts, all of whom are part of LT, likely weakening him. Plus the number of universes and the time was just thousands of universes, not infinite number if I am not mistaken.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
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Going by what is happening in Dark Knights: Metal, Dream of The Endless might be more powerful than The Living Tribunal.
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That's the thing, though. If destroying those components of TLT weakened him that much, he would not have been 1-A in the first place. The Beyonders would just have been knocking a High 1-B down to a lower degree of High 1-B.
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- #63
Of course, that is why I said that he is not always 1-A, only his strongest incarnations. The same was in Crossover Marvel vs. DC where LT < Brothers who were the embodiments of just megaverses.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
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But he is above the concepts of duality.Antvasima said:
Oh wait, and Matthew, you were telling that LT can't survive the destruction of the multiverse, yet I remembered that In Thanos: Infinity Finale Adam Warlock as the embodiment of a single universe, destroyed it along with all abstracts, and survived it. So multiversal old LT should be well capable of the same.
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@Azzy
Look at this:
https://imgur.com/a/m69t2
The Dark Multiverse is immensely larger than the entire DCU, being an older subconscious ocean where the whole DC Multiverse floats in. That alone is crazy, but here's more, from Scott Snyder:
"We know about the Multiverse: 52 Universes, it's our whole cosmology. And just like scientists recently discovered that there's dark matter, dark energy, and it comprises a majority of our universe and we're unable to perceive it, this idea was almost like, 'Well, what if the same holds true for the DCU? And there's this roiling, volatile, oceanic, subconscious realm to the DCU that we don't know and is completely unexplored?'
And:
Yeah. The way the Dark Multiverse works is that your fears and your fantasies exist there. There are 52 known universes in the Multiverse as we know it, right? But the ocean of the Dark Multiverse is roiling, fluid place, where anything you fear or think becomes material and then bubbles back back. But, if something down there decided they pluck the things from your nightmares and bring them here, to our universe, they could.
So the Dark Multiverse is made of subconscious fears, fantasies and nightmares.
And in the same issue which the Dark Multiverse was explained, Dream of the Endless appeared.
It is very likely that the Dark Multiverse is under Dream's dominion, as it is made of dreams.
Look at this:
https://imgur.com/a/m69t2
The Dark Multiverse is immensely larger than the entire DCU, being an older subconscious ocean where the whole DC Multiverse floats in. That alone is crazy, but here's more, from Scott Snyder:
"We know about the Multiverse: 52 Universes, it's our whole cosmology. And just like scientists recently discovered that there's dark matter, dark energy, and it comprises a majority of our universe and we're unable to perceive it, this idea was almost like, 'Well, what if the same holds true for the DCU? And there's this roiling, volatile, oceanic, subconscious realm to the DCU that we don't know and is completely unexplored?'
And:
Yeah. The way the Dark Multiverse works is that your fears and your fantasies exist there. There are 52 known universes in the Multiverse as we know it, right? But the ocean of the Dark Multiverse is roiling, fluid place, where anything you fear or think becomes material and then bubbles back back. But, if something down there decided they pluck the things from your nightmares and bring them here, to our universe, they could.
So the Dark Multiverse is made of subconscious fears, fantasies and nightmares.
And in the same issue which the Dark Multiverse was explained, Dream of the Endless appeared.
It is very likely that the Dark Multiverse is under Dream's dominion, as it is made of dreams.
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Dream OP, pls nerf
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How many times should I repeat that that was a weaker version of LT? Considering the inconsistency of LT's power, I think that it is well probably that LT could be 1-A at full power.PaChi2 said:
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tfw Dream is only 1/7th of a side-effect of Michael Demiurgos' Dunamis Creation Wave.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
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If Living Tribunal trancends the realm of time and space which according to your system is infinite-dimensional, then it was definitely meant that he transcends not just the duality concepts of abstract entities, but all possible dualities as well, because otherwise he would not transcend time and space.Antvasima said:
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If I am right, then it would have made sense why LT is considered above Oblivion.
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Transcending a certain number of dimensions of time and space does not automatically mean transcending the concepts in their entireties, and again, he has been stated to be the sum totality of all High 1-B abstract entities, and the embodiment of the Marvel multiverse.
This is very tiresome. I would much prefer if you drop this subject so we can close this thread.
This is very tiresome. I would much prefer if you drop this subject so we can close this thread.
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Even DarkLK is not against LT being 1-A, though I don't know if you care about that.Antvasima said:
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Well if you want to close this thread OK, but that doesn't mean anything. Anyway, can I suggest update for other characters on other discussions?
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Well, I am firmly opposed to giving embodiments of multiversal space-time continuums 1-A ratings, as it does not make any logical sense. And I would much prefer if you do not cause further problems with our Marvel cosmic entities ratings.
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Well i always noticed that your scale of universal abstracts and Odin, Silver Surfer are too low.Antvasima said:
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IG should be updated as well.Antvasima said:
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