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Like I said earlier in the thread, while that is the "intended" way to reach tier 1, reality-fiction differences kinda bypass that requirement because even a very small part of an ontologically greater reality (such as a human, in this case) would be infinitely superior to the entirety of a...
If I may, Mori, I do want to point out that Chara has to coerce you into giving your SOUL over to them when you try to go back to the world of Undertale. If you refuse, Chara simply tells you to "stay here for all eternity." I do see your point with Chara overriding the player's control, but...
It was just to illustrate my point to GodlyCharmander that "R>F" stuff doesn't require you to significantly affect anything, per our standards. Whether or not the Player actually qualifies for that isn't relevant to what I was telling him, because as I said, I'm overall neutral to this matter...
I'll let someone else tackle your other counterarguments, but I wanna clear this one up first.
Proving tier 1 based on reality-fiction stuff, whether or not it is tied to higher dimensions, is quite a different beast compared to proving tier 1 based on higher dimensions alone. The latter...
If I'm reading this right, you seem to have the idea that beings on higher levels of existence should be "omnipotent" relative to the cosmology beneath them, able to do as they please without limitations. Except that's not necessarily the case. We are absolutely not like that to fictional media...
Sorry for my belated response, but based on their previous responses, I'm not sure if anyone else is able/willing to assist in getting this done quicker.
For the record, the Big Bang is widely regarded as the beginning of time with nothing "coming before it" (at least not in a strictly chronological sense), and since the consensus among physicists is that time is infinite and doesn't expand, it's not hard to extrapolate Low 2-C from that. I don't...
It checks out to me. You could argue that the Hunting Horrors should still be comparable to the Wolf-Like Mountains because both of them guard the entrance to Kadath, with the Night-Gaunts then scaling well above them, but I'm not too sure beyond that.
Nothing, necessarily (except for the first line because IDK about Yog existing in the Ultimate Void), but I wanted to condense it into something I consider more readable.
...err, maybe hold off on that for now. If you don't mind, I wanna put Randolph Carter's page into a sandbox and then make...
I appreciate your help, Matt, but I wanna make a few corrections. First, regarding Yog's AP explanation:
I think it should be:
Also, this paragraph in the Ultimate Gods' summary should be removed or at least rewritten, since it is something we no longer accept:
I... don't know where you're getting that from. At least, my previous post didn't indicate any of what you're claiming I said to me.
This is pretty cool and I'll support the notion, but if you don't mind, I'm gonna go on a mini-rant here:
At this point, the insinuation that "Transduality"...
So, here are my thoughts:
Interdimensional Range should be adjusted to something like: "Can reach into higher-dimensional spaces, but these higher dimensions are not proven to be inherently superior to lower dimensions and the character/attack/ability can only cover a finite amount of distance...
So it's just Irrelevant Speed and Transduality, right? Uhh... can't say too much about the latter right now, but for the former, I'd be fine with keeping it, changing it to something like "Movement not reliant on spatial distance or time whatsoever," and noting that it isn't inherently above...
Without discussing specific details such as what tier we should default to, here are my thoughts:
I wholeheartedly agree that the baseline tier for the mathematical universe hypothesis needs to be raised. In other areas of our system, we assume that fiction works exactly like reality in all...
I should note that both Ground Zero and Tsar Bomba have the exact same explosion effect, but the latter is obviously much stronger in gameplay terms (3000 vs 700 damage). I don't know how we'd scale that, though.
The Supreme Archetype stays at tier 0, but the rest of the Ultimate Gods will lose it and have all of their abilities on that key moved over to the High 1-A key. This affects Nodens' Non-Physical Interaction as well.
...with their High 1-A keys.
Add Non-Physical Interaction to Nodens.
Downgrade the Night-Gaunts and Hunting Horrors to "At least 7-C" AP/durability* and "Up to High Hypersonic+" flight speed.
Change the Supreme Archetype's justification slightly.
Change the Ancient Ones' tier to "1-A physically...
Actually, there are characters with powers that only exist in relation to another power(s) they have, no? So in this case, Vortex's slipstream would be Statistics Amplification as an application of Wind Manipulation. Pretty straightforward and clearly indicates what causes the amp, but I wanna...
The issue with that: the boss bloons' attacks affect all monkeys equally, from what I can see, so if you wanna scale off of those, you'd have to give all monkeys more-or-less equal durability (Paragons are somewhat resistant to Vortex's stun). As for whether or not there's AP to them, well... I...
I'm not sure how else to classify its speed boost aspect, honestly. I went with Statistics Amplification because it is a speed boost for all bloons behind Vortex on the track (Speed being one of the stats we index on profiles), but I suppose we can just leave it at Wind Manipulation if that...
So... new update. We have another new Hero and a new boss bloon. I can't type out long stuff because mobile, so here's my summary:
Vortex should have Weather Manipulation, Wind Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Forcefield Creation, Paralysis Inducement, and Statistics Amplification(?), as...
I agree with KLOL and Planck. If someone's energy is strong enough to affect an infinite area, then by definition, that energy is traveling an infinite distance in a finite period of time, and therefore should count as Infinite Speed. But scaling anything to such speed is a completely different...
Why is there even a general "1-A" section in the first place? The description given to it doesn't truly apply any earlier than High 1-A, as DontTalk said up there, not to mention that it makes the 1-A tiers somehow seem special or different, which is an idea we were supposed to have moved past...
So, this has been bothering me for a while, but only now do I have the mind and the time to talk about it here.
Our 1-A tiers are currently named some variation of "Outerverse level" on the wiki, and they have been for several years now. Originally, we had pages laying down our considerations...
We still have Irrelevant Speed and Transduality to take care of, and I don't think we're any closer to resolving those topics without Ultima and DT. The only thing that's been agreed upon, as far as I can tell, is to merge types 2 and 3 of Transduality.
This is like, not really true of Low 1-A at all, I feel? Low 1-A is quite literally just the next infinite cardinal number after High 1-B layer-wise, so it absolutely does not "stand outside of any extensions of infinite hierarchies and sizes." I would change Low 1-A's description back to how it...
I believe Ultima and DontTalk were going to privately discuss the mathematics behind tier 0 at a later time, mainly regarding whether the tier should be defined as a universe of sets or as something else, and then one of them would make a thread to address it afterwards.
I'd change this to something like:
I also don't think the "uncountably infinite" part of tier 0's description is necessary, since I'm sure that even casual users can piece together that "infinite" includes "uncountably infinite" from context.
What Matt said makes sense to me, but I have another edit to make to my initial proposals, namely, concerning the night-gaunts' speed feat.
Yeah, so, looking at it again, this seems to be not only an acceleration feat, but also a flight feat. It's not the kind that I think would scale to their...
Well, technically, inaccessible cardinals can be written as aleph-k for some inaccessible cardinal k, and the same holds for... pretty much any large cardinal property, really. The issue is that large cardinals, by their general definition, are literally "too big" for ZFC (why do you think...