Is this good evidence for Low 1-A?

If a certain character represents the fundamental condition for any existence or phenomenon, meaning that it is the one that allows any existence or any phenomenon to exist, and without it, no existence or phenomenon would be permitted to exist.

Based on this, the character governs any existence and is the one that makes any existence possible.

I do not know if this can be considered sufficient evidence, at least up to the Low 1-A level.

Because the character represents the concept and the fundamental condition for any existence, this means that anything that can be called existence — such as dimensions, spacetime, and so on (everything) — is all within existence. They are merely aspects of existence.

IF THAT DENIED IT, NO PHENOMΕΝΟΝ OR EXISTENCE WOULD BE ALLOWED TO EXIST

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Do "existence" and "phenomenon" extend to time, space or dimensions ?

If it's refering to the concepts themselves, then he might be 1-A

No, that'd only be proof of really good concept manip, for tier 1 there'd be a need to explain exactly how much this covers, as much a cosmology doesn't inherelty include tier 1 junk in it, refer to this for more details on the matter.

EL_xWatcher1234x said:

Do "existence" and "phenomenon" extend to time, space or dimensions ?

If it's refering to the concepts themselves, then he might be 1-A

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Yes, even I think that the appropriate level is 1-A because I was thinking of opening a thread about the 1-A level with more evidence. What I posted is just one piece of evidence.

If the entity is the one that makes any existence or phenomenon possible, then by its nature it encompasses everything, because dimensions and spacetime are merely aspects of existence itself, so they are existence to begin with.

I also have this text which might be useful for the 1-A level and supports this evidence as well:

Are you making fun of me? How would I know something like that?"

"Those are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet, Alpha and Omega. It basically means 'from beginning to end, or something like 'everything' or 'eternity.'

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As you can see, this entity is the beginning and the end of everything. It is everything and it is eternal.

This proves that it encompasses everything and proves that it is the primal source from which all things emerge and to which all things will return. It is also mentioned that it is the final destination of all destinies, and it is the end of everything, and there is nothing after it.

It was a dead end. The destination of all fates, beyond which there is nothing. The end of everything in human form. It is precisely because it is the end that it stands until the end. No one can go further than it. Before this thing, fate, the plot, and the like must be a joke

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That’s right, I failed. I saw him with my own eyes. That thing is the end of this world, the ultimate end of fate itself. No one can beat it. We can’t afford to mess with him anymore!"
Volume 12, Chapter 7

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Bobsican said:

No, that'd only be proof of really good concept manip, for tier 1 there'd be a need to explain exactly how much this covers, as much a cosmology doesn't inherelty include tier 1 junk in it, refer to this for more details on the matter.

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What is your opinion on these new evidences?

We already know this is about ID, so it's a no...

Azertyhuuh said:

What is your opinion on these new evidences?

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Well...

Azertyhuuh said:

As you can see, this entity is the beginning and the end of everything. It is everything and it is eternal.

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This isn't really evidence for much at all as explained here.

Azertyhuuh said:

This proves that it encompasses everything and proves that it is the primal source from which all things emerge and to which all things will return. It is also mentioned that it is the final destination of all destinies, and it is the end of everything, and there is nothing after it.

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This just supports the cosmology being sustained by such being, which is a nice feat and all, but not really proof of tier 1 as noted earlier in my previous post. The end of a cosmology could range from plain nothing (as to not be a feat to begin with) to any arbitrary amount depending on the setting's contents, and it'd be silly to default to more than what's shown.

Bobsican said:

Well...


This isn't really evidence for much at all as explained here.


This just supports the cosmology being sustained by such being, which is a nice feat and all, but not really proof of tier 1 as noted earlier in my previous post. The end of a cosmology could range from plain nothing (as to not be a feat to begin with) to any arbitrary amount depending on the setting's contents, and it'd be silly to default to more than what's shown.

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It seems you didn’t understand what I meant at all.

You say this is not evidence and that it’s not important?? Do you know that with this statement alone I can even argue for Tier 0??
Do you know that this statement is what created Tier 0 and its system? The conditions for Tier 0 were based on this kind of statement. This statement alone is the foundation and everything for Tier 0, as long as there is nothing that contradicts it and if there are other strong quotes that support it well.

Are you making fun of me? How would I know something like that?"

"Those are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet, Alpha and Omega. It basically means 'from beginning to end, or something like 'everything' or 'eternity.'

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I am not telling you that it is the source of dimensions or something like that so you can tell me to check the page you linked. This entity is the one that makes any existence or any phenomenon possible — not just dimensions or spacetime and such, but everything. And it is not a simple causal relationship or anything like that. This entity is the beginning and the end of everything. It is everything. Everything emerges from it, and everything will return to it. It encompasses everything and is everything itself.

If you represent the source from which everything emerges, the source from which everything begins, then all possible dimensions, all spacetime, and everything begins from it — because it represents the primal source from which all things emerge and to which all things will return. The text says it is the final destination and the end of everything. The strongest evidence here is that there is nothing after it.

Dark_Soul20189 said:

We already know this is about ID, so it's a no...

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Can you mind your own business? Don’t you feel ashamed of yourself after someone has told you to stay away from them and said they don’t care about you, yet you still follow them from place to place just to post these annoying and provocative comments? If I were in your place, I would truly feel ashamed and leave the community.

Azertyhuuh said:

Yes, even I think that the appropriate level is 1-A because I was thinking of opening a thread about the 1-A level with more evidence. What I posted is just one piece of evidence.

If the entity is the one that makes any existence or phenomenon possible, then by its nature it encompasses everything, because dimensions and spacetime are merely aspects of existence itself, so they are existence to begin with.

I also have this text which might be useful for the 1-A level and supports this evidence as well:


As you can see, this entity is the beginning and the end of everything. It is everything and it is eternal.

This proves that it encompasses everything and proves that it is the primal source from which all things emerge and to which all things will return. It is also mentioned that it is the final destination of all destinies, and it is the end of everything, and there is nothing after it.





What is your opinion on these new evidences?

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If i was you trying to argue 1a off of this id argue a all in one and give it hell about the only way your gonna get 1a tbh

i dont think you have enough to justify a transcends though

Azertyhuuh said:

If a certain character represents the fundamental condition for any existence or phenomenon, meaning that it is the one that allows any existence or any phenomenon to exist, and without it, no existence or phenomenon would be permitted to exist.

Based on this, the character governs any existence and is the one that makes any existence possible.

I do not know if this can be considered sufficient evidence, at least up to the Low 1-A level.

Because the character represents the concept and the fundamental condition for any existence, this means that anything that can be called existence — such as dimensions, spacetime, and so on (everything) — is all within existence. They are merely aspects of existence.

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If the character represents existence, wouldn't it be capped by the tier of the cosmology?

Azertyhuuh said:

If the entity is the one that makes any existence or phenomenon possible, then by its nature it encompasses everything, because dimensions and spacetime are merely aspects of existence itself, so they are existence to begin with.

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This is correct, but unless the cosmology/verse is shown to have stuff like an infinite number of spatial dimensions or other High 1-B stuff, I don't think "being above existence" or "representing the concept of existence" would be enough for Low 1-A.

Azertyhuuh said:

As you can see, this entity is the beginning and the end of everything. It is everything and it is eternal.

This proves that it encompasses everything and proves that it is the primal source from which all things emerge and to which all things will return. It is also mentioned that it is the final destination of all destinies, and it is the end of everything, and there is nothing after it.

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Isn't this just omnipresence? Am I misunderstanding something?

It was a dead end. The destination of all fates, beyond which there is nothing. The end of everything in human form. It is precisely because it is the end that it stands until the end. No one can go further than it. Before this thing, fate, the plot, and the like must be a joke

Click to expand...

That’s right, I failed. I saw him with my own eyes. That thing is the end of this world, the ultimate end of fate itself. No one can beat it. We can’t afford to mess with him anymore!"
Volume 12, Chapter 7

Click to expand...

These would just scale it to the cosmology, right? These support it being able to destroy the verse. Is the cosmology already in the outerversal tiers?

Azertyhuuh said:

This entity is the one that makes any existence or any phenomenon possible — not just dimensions or spacetime and such, but everything. And it is not a simple causal relationship or anything like that. This entity is the beginning and the end of everything. It is everything. Everything emerges from it, and everything will return to it. It encompasses everything and is everything itself.

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I think this is just flowery language?

If the entity can only make or destroy "everything possible", that would only further imply that its tier would only be upgraded to whatever the cosmology tier is.



(also, what verse is this?)

I'm_here_to_teach said:

If i was you trying to argue 1a off of this id argue a all in one and give it hell about the only way your gonna get 1a tbh

i dont think you have enough to justify a transcends though

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There are of course many other evidences, but you understood the idea better than @Bobsican , who didn’t even understand that this statement alone is strong evidence for 1-A levels and above, if supported by more evidence at least.

Azertyhuuh said:

It seems you didn’t understand what I meant at all.

You say this is not evidence and that it’s not important?? Do you know that with this statement alone I can even argue for Tier 0??
Do you know that this statement is what created Tier 0 and its system? The conditions for Tier 0 were based on this kind of statement. This statement alone is the foundation and everything for Tier 0, as long as there is nothing that contradicts it and if there are other strong quotes that support it well.

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Needless to say at most it's supporting evidence, but certainly not something to use as a basis for an argument of this sort, especially not tier 0, otherwise basically any character that transcends time with no further context would qualify, when the standards still demand specific context on how that sort of statement is made even for tier 1, which so far only seem to be used for some sort of omnipresence across a given setting and type 1 immortality, which is the low-end for what being everywhere and eternal would fall as.

Azertyhuuh said:

I am not telling you that it is the source of dimensions or something like that so you can tell me to check the page you linked. This entity is the one that makes any existence or any phenomenon possible — not just dimensions or spacetime and such, but everything. And it is not a simple causal relationship or anything like that. This entity is the beginning and the end of everything. It is everything. Everything emerges from it, and everything will return to it. It encompasses everything and is everything itself.

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The problem is more so what phenomena this includes, as much there's a difference between what exists and what is possible (or could be), the former scales as far the cosmology specifically is, while the latter is at least High 1-A+ (and this is ignoring potential anti-feats, although those would only be addressable on a proper CRT).

Azertyhuuh said:

If you represent the source from which everything emerges, the source from which everything begins, then all possible dimensions, all spacetime, and everything begins from it — because it represents the primal source from which all things emerge and to which all things will return. The text says it is the final destination and the end of everything. The strongest evidence here is that there is nothing after it.

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Only if there's specific statements to make this kind of claim to begin with, your proof so far only proves that it sustains all that exists yet doesn't elaborate on how much this includes beyond that.

DuckyMcLucky said:

If the character represents existence, wouldn't it be capped by the tier of the cosmology?

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This entity is the foundation of any existence or any phenomenon, and it is not just something that exists within the work. The text did not say that it is merely what exists, but the text says that any existence or any phenomenon depends on its existence. You can review the text carefully (any existence or any phenomenon).

DuckyMcLucky said:

This is correct, but unless the cosmology/verse is shown to have stuff like an infinite number of spatial dimensions or other High 1-B stuff, I don't think "being above existence" or "representing the concept of existence" would be enough for Low 1-A.

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This is not true. Reaching 1-A does not require the cosmology to have an infinite number of dimensions. A character can be Tier 0 even in a cosmology that does not exceed Low 2-C, and there are characters at 1-A and High 1-A whose works have cosmologies that do not exceed Low 2-C or even lower. There are many ways to reach these levels, and the cosmology does not matter.

DuckyMcLucky said:

Isn't this just omnipresence? Am I misunderstanding something?


These would just scale it to the cosmology, right? These support it being able to destroy the verse. Is the cosmology already in the outerversal tiers?

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This has nothing to do with being omnipresent. Here the text explains that the entity is the final destination of everything, the end of everything, and there is nothing after it because it is the beginning and the end of everything.

The final source to which everything returns when it ends — it is the final destination... And as I told you, there is no need for 1-A levels in the cosmology. Your problem is that you link these levels with cosmolo
gy.

DuckyMcLucky said:

I think this is just flowery language?

If the entity can only make or destroy "everything possible", that would only further imply that its tier would only be upgraded to whatever the cosmology tier is.



(also, what verse is this?)

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It seems to me that you don’t understand these matters, and it seems to me that you are somewhat a beginner in the community given your small number of posts, but you are completely wrong.

Azertyhuuh said:

This entity is the foundation of any existence or any phenomenon, and it is not just something that exists within the work. The text did not say that it is merely what exists, but the text says that any existence or any phenomenon depends on its existence. You can review the text carefully (any existence or any phenomenon).

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alright

Azertyhuuh said:

This is not true. Reaching 1-A does not require the cosmology to have an infinite number of dimensions. A character can be Tier 0 even in a cosmology that does not exceed Low 2-C, and there are characters at 1-A and High 1-A whose works have cosmologies that do not exceed Low 2-C or even lower. There are many ways to reach these levels, and the cosmology does not matter.

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my bad, haven't read up on tier 1 stuff in a bit

Azertyhuuh said:

This has nothing to do with being omnipresent. Here the text explains that the entity is the final destination of everything, the end of everything, and there is nothing after it because it is the beginning and the end of everything.

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So does this just mean that it is the beginning (it created everything) and the end (it ends everything)? This would just scale to the cosmology, right? There isn't anything about transcendence or being "above" the cosmology it controls.

Azertyhuuh said:

The final source to which everything returns when it ends — it is the final destination... And as I told you, there is no need for 1-A levels in the cosmology. Your problem is that you link these levels with cosmology.

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In my defense, your text doesn't state any qualitative transcendence which would mean that it would only scale to its cosmology.



I don't think that the evidence shown would be enough as it doesn't really state a transcendence that would fall under qualitative superiority. Do you have any evidence showing transcendence? (also what is the verse??? i'm curious)

DuckyMcLucky said:

I don't think that the evidence shown would be enough as it doesn't really state a transcendence that would fall under qualitative superiority. Do you have any evidence showing transcendence? (also what is the verse??? i'm curious)

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Its cause their isnt.

So does this just mean that it is the beginning (it created everything) and the end (it ends everything)? This would just scale to the cosmology, right? There isn't anything about transcendence or being "above" the cosmology it controls.

His arguement is it returns back to their. Meaning it was originally this to begin with.
By proxy it would house all of creation since its basically the same nonsense of wuji and taiji an emergence/creation which will ultimately return back as wuji.

Its basically the arguement i have here

But far worse.

DuckyMcLucky said:

? (also what is the verse??? i'm curious)

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Instant Death