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Champion of Midgard: The Thor Odinson MegaCRT

I do have a few nitpicks about formatting and design I want to bring up
  • "Complete All-Father" should be arranged before "Herald of Thunder"
  • I don't think the word "Thor" being in each key is necessary, it just seems redundant to me
  • Would it be better for the Rune Weapons to just be on Complete All-Father Thor's key? Like most of the change in the justification is on for the Rune Weapons. Did Mjolnir buff Thor enough to warrant a new key?
  • We need a new image for Unworthy Thor. The one we have is from a variant cover and he nevers actually looks like that in the story.
 
ObberGobb said:
I do have a few nitpicks about formatting and design I want to bring up
  • "Complete All-Father" should be arranged before "Herald of Thunder"
  • I don't think the word "Thor" being in each key is necessary, it just seems redundant to me
  • Would it be better for the Rune Weapons to just be on Complete All-Father Thor's key? Like most of the change in the justification is on for the Rune Weapons. Did Mjolnir buff Thor enough to warrant a new key?
  • We need a new image for Unworthy Thor. The one we have is from a variant cover and he nevers actually looks like that in the story.
Click to expand...
This seems to make sense to me. 🙏
 
Here are my thoughts on some feats:

Some of these I have mentioned before. I will also not look at Low 1-A/1-A stuff, since ultimately that will need to be one tier (Either every character that is Low 1-A has to be upgraded to 1-A, or all of the 1-A feats need to be re-tiered). Also I will preface this by saying that a lot of this will sound like nitpicks or just me being too conservative with feats and quickly dismissing them, but there are lots of good feats so I do not want to use any feats that are anything but clear and good. Also, I do think phrasing is extremely important, so bear with me and my nitpicks.
Bloodlusted Thor damages a Celestial https://imgchest.com/p/qb4zlnopg7j
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This is barely a feat. Superficial damage like this shouldn't matter in Marvel scaling. He doesn't really harm the Celestial, he just breaks a little bit of his armor.
Base Thor contends with and takes multiple hits from Odinsword Destroyer Odin https://imgchest.com/p/o24ad2kzg4l
Click to expand...
I think this feat is worth listing at least, but I think "contends with" is very strong since Thor gets stomped pretty hard here. Maybe re-phrase to like "Base Thor briefly clashes with Odinsword Destroyer Odin and the two rend the heavens asunder"
Temporarily holds energies sufficient to wipe out all existence, stronger than anything he’s tried to absorb before https://imgchest.com/p/o24ad2a9w4l
Click to expand...
Thor doesn't really do much here. He tries to manipulate the energies, but he immediately has to stop or he will explode.
Causes more damage to God of Heroes Hercules than all the Skyfathers combined https://imgchest.com/p/xny8remop4b
Click to expand...
This isn't really scalable. Thor makes Hercules go "oof" with an attack from behind. Characters like Spider-Man have done that to characters as strong as Thor and Hulk.
Click to expand...
Does this cause any real harm to Ymir?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I think this feat is too ancient to be reliable. Like this was less than a year into Thor's existence as a character, his mythos hadn't been developed yet, so that era of Marvel is just too different to be properly scaled imo.
Click to expand...
I think here mention that he barely hurts Surtur, but that he is valuable help for Odin fighting him. This is a good feat, this is more just nitpicking about phrasing.
Click to expand...
This is a good feat, but Thor did not fight him for months. It mentions that time was being warped by their fight, so that in an instant to them months had passed in the outside world. But other than that, yes this is a good feat (Especially since this scales him above Atlas, who lifts the Axis Mundi, which is just the Greek manifestation of Yggdrasil
Click to expand...
I don't think making a character feel pain is enough for scaling
Click to expand...
This is hax and doesn't scale to Thor's physicals. Jarnbjorn is enchanted with a special spell Odin designed as a failsafe against Celestials.
Click to expand...
These are good feats and I have no problem with the scaling here, but Thor wasn't in Warrior's Madness. Sif thought he was, but Odin said it was something different at the end of Blood and Thunder.
His mightiest blow damages Exitar’s battle armor https://imgchest.com/p/vj4j5j3b278
Click to expand...
Unscalable. Superficial damage as I mentioned before, but also it seems that Celestial armor isn't as strong as Celestials themselves are.
Click to expand...
I don't think this is worth mentioning. Stan Lee is notable for not caring about powerscaling at all, and I don't think he was talking about power here.
Mighty Thor Annual 2012: Absorbing Thor would add immeasurably to the power of the Other, who could already match Scrier and fully-fed Galactus in a battle that would bring all of reality back to Oblivion https://imgchest.com/p/o24adjedg4l
Click to expand...
Outlier I think. In the referenced battle, it took all of Thor's effort to be barely relevant. Like all Thor and the others accomplished was getting them to briefly pause and reconsider their battle. Narratively, they weren't even remotely close to Galactus, Other, and Scrier.
Multiversal Oblivion describes Thor as possessing power beyond comprehension https://imgchest.com/p/ne7brlorny5
Click to expand...
I don't think this necessarily scales Thor to Multi-Oblivion. Like he doesn't say beyond his comprehension, just the comprehension of the listener/reader.

Click to expand...
This doesn't really have any effect on Chaos King


Later I will go through and comment on more, but I am busy. I will also specifically list the ones I think are very very good for scaling, and there are a lot of those.
 
ObberGobb said:
Here are my thoughts on some feats:

Some of these I have mentioned before. I will also not look at Low 1-A/1-A stuff, since ultimately that will need to be one tier (Either every character that is Low 1-A has to be upgraded to 1-A, or all of the 1-A feats need to be re-tiered). Also I will preface this by saying that a lot of this will sound like nitpicks or just me being too conservative with feats and quickly dismissing them, but there are lots of good feats so I do not want to use any feats that are anything but clear and good. Also, I do think phrasing is extremely important, so bear with me and my nitpicks.

This is barely a feat. Superficial damage like this shouldn't matter in Marvel scaling. He doesn't really harm the Celestial, he just breaks a little bit of his armor.

I think this feat is worth listing at least, but I think "contends with" is very strong since Thor gets stomped pretty hard here. Maybe re-phrase to like "Base Thor briefly clashes with Odinsword Destroyer Odin and the two rend the heavens asunder"

Thor doesn't really do much here. He tries to manipulate the energies, but he immediately has to stop or he will explode.

This isn't really scalable. Thor makes Hercules go "oof" with an attack from behind. Characters like Spider-Man have done that to characters as strong as Thor and Hulk.

Does this cause any real harm to Ymir?

Unfortunately I think this feat is too ancient to be reliable. Like this was less than a year into Thor's existence as a character, his mythos hadn't been developed yet, so that era of Marvel is just too different to be properly scaled imo.

I think here mention that he barely hurts Surtur, but that he is valuable help for Odin fighting him. This is a good feat, this is more just nitpicking about phrasing.

This is a good feat, but Thor did not fight him for months. It mentions that time was being warped by their fight, so that in an instant to them months had passed in the outside world. But other than that, yes this is a good feat (Especially since this scales him above Atlas, who lifts the Axis Mundi, which is just the Greek manifestation of Yggdrasil

I don't think making a character feel pain is enough for scaling

This is hax and doesn't scale to Thor's physicals. Jarnbjorn is enchanted with a special spell Odin designed as a failsafe against Celestials.

These are good feats and I have no problem with the scaling here, but Thor wasn't in Warrior's Madness. Sif thought he was, but Odin said it was something different at the end of Blood and Thunder.

Unscalable. Superficial damage as I mentioned before, but also it seems that Celestial armor isn't as strong as Celestials themselves are.

I don't think this is worth mentioning. Stan Lee is notable for not caring about powerscaling at all, and I don't think he was talking about power here.

Outlier I think. In the referenced battle, it took all of Thor's effort to be barely relevant. Like all Thor and the others accomplished was getting them to briefly pause and reconsider their battle. Narratively, they weren't even remotely close to Galactus, Other, and Scrier.

I don't think this necessarily scales Thor to Multi-Oblivion. Like he doesn't say beyond his comprehension, just the comprehension of the listener/reader.


This doesn't really have any effect on Chaos King


Later I will go through and comment on more, but I am busy. I will also specifically list the ones I think are very very good for scaling, and there are a lot of those.
Click to expand...
Some good points here. I'll be able to address it more thoroughly in a few hours
 
ObberGobb said:
I do have a few nitpicks about formatting and design I want to bring up
  • "Complete All-Father" should be arranged before "Herald of Thunder"
  • I don't think the word "Thor" being in each key is necessary, it just seems redundant to me
  • Would it be better for the Rune Weapons to just be on Complete All-Father Thor's key? Like most of the change in the justification is on for the Rune Weapons. Did Mjolnir buff Thor enough to warrant a new key?
  • We need a new image for Unworthy Thor. The one we have is from a variant cover and he nevers actually looks like that in the story.
Click to expand...
1. I wanted to get feedback from everyone on this, so I'm glad you brought it up. Complete All-Father seems to be stronger than Herald of Thunder (considering HoT lost to Knull in a close fight and CAF stomped amped Meridius) so I was thinking it made sense to have CAF after HoT in the keys, since it seems to be standard formatting to have stronger keys father to the right
2. Agreed, I'll edit that
3. I had similar logic for splitting the keys here. His Rune Weapons key is higher than RKT, so I was trying to figure out a way to have it father to the right having CAF positioned as his strongest key since without the Rune Weapons RKT is far stronger. I'm certainly not set in stone about this, though. Would it be weird to have CAF as "possibly High 1-A with Rune Weapons" if it's in the middle of his keys? Does that matter?
4. Also agreed. I'll look for a good image
 
NaturalDestroyer said:
3. I had similar logic for splitting the keys here. His Rune Weapons key is higher than RKT, so I was trying to figure out a way to have it father to the right having CAF positioned as his strongest key since without the Rune Weapons RKT is far stronger. I'm certainly not set in stone about this, though. Would it be weird to have CAF as "possibly High 1-A with Rune Weapons" if it's in the middle of his keys? Does that matter?
Click to expand...
I mean, his weapons are an axe with his rune iirc and a belt made from the power of Zeus that gives him more resistance to magic, they don't really seem something that makes him that much stronger. Thor in that run also used Mjolnir to crack Toranos's wheel.
RKT scales higher anyway.
 
I'm happy to merge the keys back if that's the majority consensus. My original thought was that RKT scaled higher than peak Immortal Thor with his weapons, but after reviewing the scaling chains I no longer think that's the case (especially factoring in the blatant scaling to a Nyx that was stronger than ever before, not to mention Utgard stuff)
 
NaturalDestroyer said:
I'm happy to merge the keys back if that's the majority consensus. My original thought was that RKT scaled higher than peak Immortal Thor with his weapons, but after reviewing the scaling chains I no longer think that's the case (especially factoring in the blatant scaling to a Nyx that was stronger than ever before, not to mention Utgard stuff)
Click to expand...
Could you go over the Nyx and Utgard scaling?
 
ObberGobb said:
Could you go over the Nyx and Utgard scaling?
Click to expand...
Yeah! The scans are on the draft profile, but the rough overview is as follows.

1) Loki regarded full power (actually amped according to Hercules) Nyx and Thor as too evenly matched at night, so sent them all to the Dark Cold Room in order to give Nyx more of an advantage to further test Thor. As he did so Loki stated that an even greater danger lurked where they were going, and the solicit confirmed that Zeus was that greater danger
2) Zeus and Nyx fought and Nyx was unable to harm him
3) Thor stomps Zeus and absorbs his power, turning it into Yolgjord and becoming immune to Amora and Loki's skald-magic

1) Utgard Elder Gods (theoretically others as well but these ones have much better statements and feats) have allegory of the cave level transcendence over the Aesir. Gods are shadows and Elder Gods are what cast those shadows
2) Utgard-Loki used Eternity and Death as pawns in his trials, and is implied to be master of the Secret Fire (a phrase that Ewing uses to refer to the Phoenix Force. This one isn't on the profile yet because I realized it after I made the draft so I'll look further into it and see if it's strong enough to include)
3) Utgard-Loki created Utgard itself, a realm in the Mystery that's above Multi Eternity and is beyond all charts, rules, maps, theory, and even truth
4) Kemur is shown to be superior to Utgard-Loki in a flashback, with narration confirming that none of the Elder Gods were capable of challenging him until Atum
5) The Complete Allpower is like a stinging gnat to Toranos
6) Mejed and Toranos are relative, with Mejed being the one who nailed Toranos to the Wheel of Fate. Kemur > Utgard-Loki =? Toranos => Mejed > NRGL
7) Thor killed a weakened Toranos, repeatedly injured and took hits from Kemur, defeated NRGL, and killed Mejed, all once he had possession of both Tormod and Yolgjord

Note that amped Nyx (directly described as having surpassed her previous peak) was affected by GoS Loki's magic while Utgard-Loki dismissed it with a thought.
 
I'm on mobile right now, so I'm putting this here so I can dig further. Journeys Into Mystery https://share.google/nw1DjKHsenP8kUseB (Al Ewing blog post where he refers to skald-magic as the secret fire and explicitly says that GoS Loki can retcon Marvel continuity)

SWORD (2021) #1: Ewing refers to the WHR as "The White Hot Room of Secret Fire"

Immortal Thor 6: The secret fire that has many servants is the fire of stories itself

Immortal Thor 7: Utgard-Loki isn't a magician, but deep magic itself
 
Last edited:
NaturalDestroyer said:
"Historically, Thor's power fluctuates depending on his emotional state and his willpower. He subconsciously holds back often, especially on Earth. Gods are weaker when not in their home world. Therefore, the location of the battle alongside the stakes that may affect Thor's emotions and will should be carefully considered in versus threads."

To:

"Thor's power depends upon multiple variables, including his own worthiness, emotional state, his story as a god, acceptance of his Asgardian-Elder God heritage, and even the location of the battle, being weaker outside of Asgard or the Nine Realms. In many stories he is frequently depicted as superior but comparable to Herald-level characters like Silver Surfer and Hyperion, but it is not uncommon for Thor to battle Skyfather or Hell Lord-tier opponents and he has multiple feats of shaking all of the Nine Realms with his blows. He also has multiple feats of him harming or otherwise scaling to Yggdrasil, which makes up all that is. His tiering is split to account for how the power level of gods, who are stories and physical manifestations of belief, can fluctuate. This includes Thor's personal belief in himself, which empowered him to the point where in base he defeated M.Y.T.H.O.S., who had previously oneshot his Complete All-Father form." (this would be a note at the bottom of his profile)

Option 1: Varies according to Divinity, Willpower, and Location. High 3-A (placeholder Herald tier) normally, up to Low 1-A or 1-A at peak.
Option 2: Varies according to Divine Willpower and Location. High 3-A (placeholder Herald tier) normally, up to Low 1-A or 1-A at peak.
Option 3: Varies according to Belief, Willpower, and Location. High 3-A (placeholder Herald tier) normally, up to Low 1-A or 1-A at peak.
Click to expand...
I prefer Option 3. Belief is more related to the themes of gods.

NaturalDestroyer said:
After reviewing the relevant scans and justifications, I feel it would be most appropriate to split Thor's Complete All-Father key in order to account for Immortal Thor a) having a stronger Mjolnir and b) having rune weapons that significantly increase his offensive and defensive capabilities. Please review the proposed new profile and comment with your feedback, ESPECIALLY on formatting errors you catch. I believe this to be a significant improvement over the current profile and I'm sure that all of us together can make this draft even better.

PROPOSED NEW PROFILE PAGE FOR THOR https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:NaturalDestroyer/Thor_Odinson_(Marvel_Comics) This proposed profile supersedes the original version of the OP and would split the keys as follows:
  • Unworthy Thor (5-B to High 3-A normally. Low 1-A to 1-A at peak)
  • Base Thor (High 3-A normally. Low 1-A to 1-A at peak)
  • Incomplete All-Father Thor (Low 1-A to 1-A)
  • Herald of Thunder (Low 1-A to 1-A)
  • Complete All-Father Thor (Low 1-A to 1-A)
  • Rune King Thor (1-A)
  • Immortal All-Father Thor (1-A, possibly up to High 1-A with Rune Weapons
The "Immeasurable" speed values have been removed from most of his keys.
Stamina, Intelligence, Weakness, and Equipment sections have been updated.
Each key has been considerably beefed up with far more and far stronger justifications for each tier.
The Variability and Mystic Cosmology blogs have been added to the "Explanation" link.
Click to expand...
So we are finally using the Moon Knight scan to put variable on the gods? Y'all can thank Jed Mackay for that save. 🐱

Also Obber seems to make sense in some of his comments. I hope I'm not too late on here.
 
Tomfer said:
I prefer Option 3. Belief is more related to the themes of gods.


So we are finally using the Moon Knight scan to put variable on the gods? Y'all can thank Jed Mackay for that save. 🐱

Also Obber seems to make sense in some of his comments. I hope I'm not too late on here.
Click to expand...
Not too late at all. I think Obber makes some great points as well. I'll be less active the next couple of days but will have a full response with proposed alterations by this weekend (my wife is having our baby boy early tomorrow morning, so I'm stoked! Hopefully he doesn't shake all the realms of Yggdrasil with his cries lol)
 
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