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Mr Incredible Vs The Homelander

ShionAH said:
Bob is good at fighting sure but is he good enough to consistently dodge a super fast beam faster than him that can follow him??
Click to expand...
Yes
IDK3465 said:
Can I remind you guys that Bob has direct experience with lasers above his own AP that are faster than himself? What I'm getting at here is that everything Homelander has is something Mr. Incredible is already used to and has already countered in some way.
Click to expand...

IDK did a pretty good and sucint post, please read it.

ShionAH said:
You keep overastimating this sound weakness, there isn't even enough proof if the shockwaves Bob creates would be loud enough.
Click to expand...
Comiphorous said:
Why are we arguing Bob's shockwaves would do anything to John? John can generate his own shockwaves when flying and they don't hurt his hearing. Clearly it's not just any vaguely loud sounds do him under.
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Even if he can deal with that, since it is listed as a weakness of his, eventually (or from the top) it can disturb him
@Fallen_Angelicx went deep on that despite thinking it'll make him get mad more than diminish his fighting abilities, but that's still an advantage for Bob nonetheless

ShionAH said:
And the experience gap isn't enough to stop a one shot beam from melting Bob's ass
Click to expand...
If it was just that, i'd agree with you, but my debate with @Fallen_Angelicx and @IDK3465's post show why it is more than just "he's experienced therefore he wins"

Comiphorous said:
Why are we arguing syndrome uses his flight like homelander at all and that translates to Bob being able to deal with it? The mf is notoriously grounded the entire time in his first confrontation with Bob, and the one time Bob deals with syndrome while he's actually flying the guy fking dies 2 seconds later. (And even then, Helen was mostly the one who dealt with him...) That ain't experience against flying opponents man.
Click to expand...
He cooperated with Helen on that one occasion and that's even assuming that's his only experience with flying fellas, which is not the case since he could've just died in the beginning of the movie if he didn't somewhat coordinate the flying "Syndrome" had to take the bomb off of him

Comiphorous said:
Why are we arguing that Bob is nimble enough to go untouched from John's heat vision the entire fight? That's just lowkey kinda dumb. Just in general. We aint dealing with a Warhammer 40k Skillslop character here with Bob, not to discredit the guy but Bob can still get reasonably tagged even if he's skilled in dodging, which is an issue when he honestly needs to be going untouched from the heat vision.
Click to expand...
That's discrediting the guy who were more active than him, yeah
And also assuming everything John'll do is lasering, which ain't the case
 
Nonynho said:
Even if he can deal with that, since it is listed as a weakness of his, eventually (or from the top) it can disturb him
@Fallen_Angelicx went deep on that despite thinking it'll make him get mad more than diminish his fighting abilities, but that's still an advantage for Bob nonetheless
Click to expand...
That isn't how weaknesses work at all. Him being able to make sounds doesn't mean he can cripple homelander because he's weak to loud sounds. Bob has to actually showcase the ability to do something that could in fact effect Homelander, which he has not because shockwaves don't effect Homelander's hearing. It's not an advantage. it's not anything. It's just extra info lmao.
Nonynho said:
He cooperated with Helen on that one occasion and that's even assuming that's his only experience with flying fellas, which is not the case since he could've just died in the beginning of the movie if he didn't somewhat coordinate the flying "Syndrome" had to take the bomb off of him
Click to expand...
We can't just assume he probably dealt with other flying opponents. That isn't how that works lmao. He either has or hasn't, and in this case he has, but required help from his family to properly deal with them. And if he did battle other flying opponents during the golden age, he probably had help to deal with them like he did with syndrome. aka, nothing that's super relevant here when fighting John.
Nonynho said:
That's discrediting the guy who were more active than him, yeah
And also assuming everything John'll do is lasering, which ain't the case
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Being more active doesn't make Bob magically capable of going untouched from lasers. Reasonably he could dodge them but to say he goes untouched from them this entire fight is ridiculous, especially if Homelander decides to use the damn things point blank range.

Also,

John, famous for eye lasers NOT being everything he does... Riiiiiiiight...
 
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By knowing he already saw flying enemies, as we know he dealt with Syndrome and the flying s* on the 2nd act before the family's captured, we can say he's not 100% resourceless against one.

Comiphorous said:
Being more active doesn't make Bob magically capable of going untouched from lasers. Reasonably he could dodge them but to say he goes untouched from them this entire fight is ridiculous, especially if Homelander decides to use the damn things point blank range.
Click to expand...
Once again: if they are at close range and Bob already knows the guy has laser, he'll just incap him with his one-tier-above LS while making John face the other side or the floor lol

Also, what about John homing-in, which @Fallen_Angelicx said quite a bunch that'll happen 100%?
 
Nonynho said:
By knowing he already saw flying enemies, as we know he dealt with Syndrome and the flying s* on the 2nd act before the family's captured, we can say he's not 100% resourceless against one.
Click to expand...
But is still notably at a disadvantage against one. He very much struggles to deal with flying opponents.
Nonynho said:
Once again: if they are at close range and Bob already knows the guy has laser, he'll just incap him with his one-tier-above LS while making John face the other side or the floor lol
Click to expand...
Bob would need to get up close... Which again, an issue when John is spamming eye lasers.
Nonynho said:
Also, what about John homing-in, which @Fallen_Angelicx said quite a bunch that'll happen 100%?
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When he's gone into CQC, it's most of the time against butcher, who he actively wants to have a grandiose battle to the death with. When he didn't want said battle anymore in season 3, he went back to using eye lasers again. He only starts with CQC under very specific circumstances which are simply not here.
 
Comiphorous said:
He very much struggles to deal with flying opponents.
Click to expand...
"Struggle" is a very harsh word
At the only 3 we know, he only had help with 1 and in none of them he had large struggle lol

Comiphorous said:
Bob would need to get up close... Which again, an issue when John is spamming eye lasers.
Click to expand...
If he's only spamming that, it'd actually make it far easier, since Bob is a guy that always plans and acts up in the fly and, again, has experience against it
Also, one of John voters had said he'd be trying to get closer too, what's the case?

Comiphorous said:
When he didn't want said battle, he went back to using eye lasers again. He only starts with CQC under very specific circumstances which are simply not here.
Click to expand...
So he always goes for that and never ends up using CQC, basically?
Then yeah, i do believe Bob can go untouched by the lasers and get to his ass lol
 
Nonynho said:
"Struggle" is a very harsh word
At the only 3 we know, he only had help with 1 and in none of them he had large struggle lol
Click to expand...
Shows a clip where he had help from his entire family against flying opponents before being captured.

Guys this means he can suddenly no diff flying characters!!!
Nonynho said:
If he's only spamming that, it'd actually make it far easier, since Bob is a guy that always plans and acts up in the fly and, again, has experience against it
Also, one of John voters had said he'd be trying to get closer too, what's the case?
Click to expand...
It actually wouldn't be easier because being able to plan actually doesn't help when you are dead, fun fact. What good does being able to make up plans on the fly when the second he gets touched with the eye lasers he gets fried???
Nonynho said:
So he always goes for that and never ends up using CQC, basically?
Then yeah, i do believe Bob can go untouched by the lasers and get to his ass lol
Click to expand...
-No instinctive action.
-No feats of being able to dodge and go untouched from anything impressive.
-Suddenly can do above here despite never being shown to be capable of such, because it's homelander (???)
-???

Being more skilled doesn't mean you are untouchable from the other opponent, (unless it's that absurd of a skilled character, such as a metal gear character or a 40k character, which Bob does not fall under) especially when it's fking eye lasers and Homelander just has to track a target that's moving at speeds he can react to with just his damn eyeballs. Literally what is your logic here, he can now do things he's never been depicted capable of doing because he has more experience than the person attacking? That makes no fking sense.
 
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Comiphorous said:
Shows a clip where he very much needed the help of his entire family before being captured.

Guys this means he can suddenly no diff flying characters!!!
Click to expand...
Did we see the same clip? He punched one and throwed debris at the other??

I'm not saying he no-diffs, just that he doesn't struggle as much as one might think

Comiphorous said:
It actually wouldn't be easier because being able to plan actually doesn't help when you are dead, fun fact.
Click to expand...
you're saying laser hits because... it does.

I'm saying that Bob dodges, how and why

ahm... please don't?

Comiphorous said:
-No feats of being able to dodge and go untouched from any impressive attacks
Click to expand...
Omnidroid and a friend of his from the golden age have lasers and the first one he did went untouched by, when facing the laser attacks
And the Omnidroid literally learned from fighting against him and had prior model(s) made to literally be able to destroy him specifically with a handful of other heroes also feeding his intelligence/database

So yeah, we can say he has a feat

Comiphorous said:
-Suddenly can do above here despite never being shown to be capable of such, because it's homelander.
Click to expand...
On the way you're saying, John'll pretty much stand still or make short movements while lasering continously
And he was shown to be able to do so

I'm not one to s* on John just because, though i think he's a tad bit of a fraud, i'm making what i consider fair arguments on the same way you're doing

Comiphorous said:
This logic makes no sense. Being more skilled doesn't mean you are not touchable by* the other opponent.
Click to expand...
If his behaviour is what you're presenting, then being more skilled is exactly what makes this a possibility
 
Nonynho said:
Did we see the same clip? He punched one and throwed debris at the other??

I'm not saying he no-diffs, just that he doesn't struggle as much as one might think
Click to expand...
Yeah against an opponent who are jobbers and don't act like homelander. Like cool he threw a rock and it was instantly shot through and by proxy Bob. Like huh?
Nonynho said:
you're saying laser hits because... it does.

I'm saying that Bob dodges, how and why

ahm... please don't?
Click to expand...
Because it does. Bob has not shown anything to say he magically becomes a Metal Gear bullet timer only when he's fighting homelander and go untouched from ANY of Jogn's attacks. You need to actually show me him being like that, which you have failed to do. Being able to make up plans on the spot is unrelated to avoiding being lasered in half. Having experience fighting people he can take a punch from since he was considered INVULNERABLE during his times as a superhero does not help him from getting instantly lasered in half.
Nonynho said:
Omnidroid and a friend of his from the golden age have lasers and the first one he did went untouched by, when facing the laser attacks
And the Omnidroid literally learned from fighting against him and had prior model(s) made to literally be able to destroy him specifically with a handful of other heroes also feeding his intelligence/database

So yeah, we can say he has a feat
Click to expand...
A friend of his has lasers, omnidroid killed his friend, this somehow loops around to Bob having the ability to dodge his friend's eye lasers because he can fight omnidroid that killed his friend, despite the omnidroid not really ever dodging.

Huh?
Nonynho said:
On the way you're saying, John'll pretty much stand still or make short movements while lasering continously
And he was shown to be able to do so

I'm not one to s* on John just because, though i think he's a tad bit of a fraud, i'm making what i consider fair arguments on the same way you're doing
Click to expand...
I don't even know how to respond to this because it relies on the fact that somehow John not making exaggerated movement for lasers that firing out of his eyeballs somehow mean Bob can dodge Homelander just staring at him.

You would actually have to prove that Bob can dodge John being able to perceive and track Bob, despite bob moving at the exact same speed as him. That is how high you are putting the bar for Bob's skill. That is absurdly higher than anything he has ever shown.
 
Comiphorous said:
Like huh?
Click to expand...
Homelander is not fodder material, true
But he is not a tremendously skilled individual either, so i again insist that what i'm saying is Bob is not resourceless against John's flight

Comiphorous said:
Because it does.
Click to expand...
I have shown that he can react to lasers faster than himself so i'll just answer your "nuh uh" with "nuh uh" as well because there's nowhere else this can go lol?

Comiphorous said:
omnidroid killed his friend, this somehow loops around to Bob having the ability to dodge his friend's eye lasers because he can fight omnidroid that killed his friend, despite the omnidroid not really ever dodging.
Click to expand...
Because Omnidroid also has lasers...?

Comiphorous said:
I don't even know how to respond to this because it relies on the fact that somehow John not making exaggerated movement for lasers that firing out of his eyeballs somehow mean Bob can dodge Homelander just staring at him.
Click to expand...
Yeah? The laser is faster than them as much as the one i presented earlier so Bob reacting to it is not unimaginable as you agreed?
And because of what you're presenting, that he'll basically stand still while shooting the laser, there is literally no behaviour more predictable so it is not unimaginable that Bob can indeed dodge until he gets close and ggs??

Yeah, Bob can dodge a standing-still-laser-gun, wow, unimaginable(???)
 
Nonynho said:
Homelander is not fodder material, true
But he is not a tremendously skilled individual either, so i again insist that what i'm saying is Bob is not resourceless against John's flight
Click to expand...
Not resourceless, but it is an issue that before John even thinks about hitting the ground, he'd be tryna laser him into pieces.
Nonynho said:
I have shown that he can react to lasers faster than himself so i'll just answer your "nuh uh" with "nuh uh" as well because there's nowhere else this can go lol?
Click to expand...
Alright riddle me this. If Homelander fires his eye lasers, looks left to right, where the **** does Bob go?

1. John's lasers would go through anything he could put between him and the beam.
2. Jumping over it/around it/etc wouldn't work since it's a continuous laser and would either; Fall into the beam and die or Homelander would slightly look up and hit him anways.

Homelander is unskilled, but he isn't a fking idiot who doesn't know how to use his eyes. He literally just has to directly look at Bob to win. Bob has to do the world's greatest gymnastics showcase to get close enough to win. What's more likely? Probably just staring at Bob.
Nonynho said:
Because Omnidroid also has lasers...?
Click to expand...
Which don't act like Homelander's, he can dodge the bolts that aren't just continuous beams that can move according to where the user is looking. That's a shit ton harder to dodge than a regular bolt that moves in one direction regardless of what Bob does.
Nonynho said:
Yeah? The laser is faster than them as much as the one i presented earlier so Bob reacting to it is not unimaginable as you agreed?
And because of what you're presenting, that he'll basically stand still while shooting the laser, there is literally no behaviour more predictable so it is not unimaginable that Bob can indeed dodge until he gets close and ggs??
Click to expand...
I said he could reasonably react to them, hell he may dodge them a few times, but you're suggesting he just never gets hit. Which is DUMB. It goes against what we have seen Bob do!
 
Lou_change said:
would he choose to immediately fly out of range in this situation.
Click to expand...
I don't think so. Currently they're 10 meters apart (So about the length of a bus) inside a very cramped fighting area. I think it's more likely he'll just laser through everything in the hallway.

If the fighting area was something a bit more open I think he would fly upwards but here i don't see it.
 
idk why were treating Homelander like a bumbling moron ngl like hes a completely competent fighter and went H2H against Billy Butcher and Soldier Boy for a solid period of time and why would Homelander not just laser spam? Bob is acrobatic sure and could prolly dodge for a decent amount of time but eventually hes gonna get tagged by em and if they don't kill him out right, they'll greatly slow him down.

Homelander might not be the brightest and has let his personality get the better of him before but hes also shown to yknow lock in and just not play around in combat.

Homelander FRA like very plainly
 
Bob, while skilled, isn't like... some skillslop god ala Darksiders Death, Obi-Wan Kenobi, or Positron to dodge Homelander moving his head 5 entire inches to the left and catching the dodge. Like, genuinely, if they started off close, Homey is getting ******* one-shot because Bob is 7-C here, but they don't. 10 Meters is well within jumping distance for Bob, but it's also well within Homelander just beaming him with no strain whatsoever. Stomp Match.
 
Anyways if you want a legit analysis...

Mr. Incredible Advantages/Disadvantages:
+WAY stronger
+LAUGHABLY more durable
+MUCH better LS
+A lot more skilled in combat
+Does not act stupid in-character
+FAR more combat-smart
-Cannot fly
-No suitable ranged options

Homelander Advantages/Disadvantages:
+Eye beams easily overtax the suit and are insanely hard to dodge
+Can fly
-LAUGHABLY weaker
-MUCH less durable
-Way worse LS
-Much less skilled
-Suffers from major flaws in his in-character
-SUCKS ASS at adapting to new situations
-Literally inept when he doesn't have the strength advantage

And Homelander wins. Because guess what he's using first thing? The Eye Beams that overtax the suit.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Bob, while skilled, isn't like... some skillslop god ala Darksiders Death, Obi-Wan Kenobi, or Positron to dodge Homelander moving his head 5 entire inches to the left and catching the dodge. Like, genuinely, if they started off close, Homey is getting ******* one-shot because Bob is 7-C here, but they don't. 10 Meters is well within jumping distance for Bob, but it's also well within Homelander just beaming him with no strain whatsoever. Stomp Match.
Click to expand...
Ooh look another 7-C. Another victim for you know who.
 
Homelander is a bad person yada yada but this nonsense of treating him as though he's a disabled newborn in combat has got to end. It's corny. He doesn't need a lot of skill when his win condition is this straightforward.

Bob isn't Mori Jin or Garou. Homelander lands those laser beams way more often than he gets grabbed. And Syndrome does not use his flight nearly to the degree for Bob's experience against him to matter here.

Homelander takes this.
 
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