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On the wiki, almost every character of the Persona franchise is listed as being Outerverse Level (1-A) without proper explanation, and when explanation is given it's not accurate to what's present in any official representation of said characters.
For example, let's take Suguru Kamoshida. He's the game's first boss.
On the wiki, his real world self isn't mentioned despite a render of it being present. Every scaling on the wiki is about his shadow in his palace, who is a different entity that's essentially how he subconsciously sees himself due to perverted desires that he has.
His feats are split into two parts: "Base", and "With Shadows".
Shadows are completely different entities, and they're not part of Kamoshida's shadow, who as the name suggests is a shadow itself. It's as if I was ranking a regular human and had a list of feats "With Humans" where I include things that others can do.
This section is the same except for the first paragraph, who now lists off abilities that other shadows can use but that Kamoshida himself is unable to use no matter how you try to look at it.
Kamoshida isn't the only character to be completely wrong, almost all of the characters are. I'll talk about Morgana now, as he's also not scaled properly at all.
For context, the final boss of the original game is Yaldabaoth, who to put it simply so I don't have to explain Persona lore has the power of a God. He can shape reality to his will and has a lot of really broken abilities. Morgana, one of the Party Members who is a cartoon cat that has healing skills and wind attacks, is scaled to be stronger than one of the two Gods who rule the Persona universe. And it's not just him either; every single Party Member is ranked to be stronger than Yaldabaoth.
Both Yaldabaoth and Morgana are 1-A, but Morgana, alongside a LOT of characters of this verse, are listed to be able to go "higher with Willpower". What this "Willpower" is is never mentioned or explained on any of the pages, yet it's used everywhere. From what I understand, it's whoever wrote these pages' version of plot armor? It sounds like they said that to say that the characters would win no matter what because they got plot armor.
Also, as you can see, Morgana has far more tiers than there are represented on the Key, and they're almost all the exact same. Those tiers also just have names ranging from Begining of the game to End Game, which isn't descriptive at all. It doesn't explain what it is that makes Morgana require a specific scaling for that version of him. There is an argument to be made that multiple Keys would be needed as Morgana does go from having Zorro as his Persona to evolving to Mercurius, before evolving a final time to Diego.
His Powers and Abilities are organized in a very confusing and ineffective way, using gameplay mechanics far more than actual lore too.
"Base" Morgana is, quite literally, a real world cat. His "Base" form doesn't have any crazy powers or anything. In the Metaverse, Morgana gains a new appearance (the one of a cartoon cat I mentioned earlier), but it doesn't affect his power at all. In the Metaverse, Morgana can summon his Persona though, which is the thing that's granting him all of the powers he can possibly have.
Finally, I'm gonna end this rant with the fact that on the wiki, Joker (Ren Amamiya from before), the protagonist, who's able to use any Persona he wants, who's referred to as a Wild Card, who's constantly stated and shown to be way more powerful than anyone else from the Phantom Thieves, is ranked the exact same as Morgana. And also, again, they're both ranked higher than an actual God. There is no explanation as to why Joker or Morgana, or anyone else should be Outerverse level. They never show any kind of power like that, and this isn't supported by anything. The Phantom Thieves had to be all eight of them against Yaldabaoth to have a chance of winning, and yet the wiki claims the cat with wind attacks is stronger than God.
I am a Persona fan. I absolutely love this series so much, and I really am not doing this to try and say that those characters or this verse is weak, but it's annoying having all of this verse be scaled so badly with so many mistakes all over the place. I initially wanted to also include Persona 3 characters into this rant as they have the exact same problems, but it's already way longer than I wanted it to be so I'll stick to what I wrote above for now.
All of this verse's pages are protected, so no changes can be made, and I would love to be able to have these characters represented accurately!
For example, let's take Suguru Kamoshida. He's the game's first boss.
On the wiki, his real world self isn't mentioned despite a render of it being present. Every scaling on the wiki is about his shadow in his palace, who is a different entity that's essentially how he subconsciously sees himself due to perverted desires that he has.
- His Attack Potency is listed as Universe Level +, with the explanation being that he created and sustains his own Palace. This isn't how this works though; Palaces are created by the person in real life, not by their shadow. Also, I don't understand how "having created and sustaining" a place would count as Attack Potency.
- His Speed is said to be the Speed of Light, due to "Reactions and Combat Speed that's comparable to Ren Amamiya". This is an Association Fallacy, and both in and out of combat, Kamoshida never once shows any feat remotely close to being able to travel at the speed of light, or to have light speed reaction time. He's listed this high because the wiki also has Ren Amamiya this high, but Ren also doesn't have feats that make him be even remotely close to the speed of light.
- His Lifting Strength, Striking Strength, and Durability all don't have a single explanation as to why or how they're so high.
- His Stamina is stated to be comparable to the Phantom Thieves, which is another Association Fallacy. There isn't a single reason why his Stamina would be the same as the Phantom Thieves, as he's not even human.
- His Intelligence is listed as being Above Average, with the explanation being that he "Likely kept up with the Phantom Thieves in tactics during their battle". The whole reason the Phantom Thieves were able to win against him is because they outsmarted him and formed a strategy mid-fight to steal his treasure, and he didn't see it coming. Additionally, he's able to be trapped in a cell by Ryuji and Ren the first time you see him because he forgot they could use keys that were on the ground to lock the door. His real self is a teacher, so his Intelligence being "Above Average" makes sense in that context. It's never stated to be true, but even if we were to say that Kamoshida's shadow can't be worse than his real self, the explanation as to why it's that isn't correct.
His feats are split into two parts: "Base", and "With Shadows".
Shadows are completely different entities, and they're not part of Kamoshida's shadow, who as the name suggests is a shadow itself. It's as if I was ranking a regular human and had a list of feats "With Humans" where I include things that others can do.
This section is the same except for the first paragraph, who now lists off abilities that other shadows can use but that Kamoshida himself is unable to use no matter how you try to look at it.
Kamoshida isn't the only character to be completely wrong, almost all of the characters are. I'll talk about Morgana now, as he's also not scaled properly at all.
For context, the final boss of the original game is Yaldabaoth, who to put it simply so I don't have to explain Persona lore has the power of a God. He can shape reality to his will and has a lot of really broken abilities. Morgana, one of the Party Members who is a cartoon cat that has healing skills and wind attacks, is scaled to be stronger than one of the two Gods who rule the Persona universe. And it's not just him either; every single Party Member is ranked to be stronger than Yaldabaoth.
Both Yaldabaoth and Morgana are 1-A, but Morgana, alongside a LOT of characters of this verse, are listed to be able to go "higher with Willpower". What this "Willpower" is is never mentioned or explained on any of the pages, yet it's used everywhere. From what I understand, it's whoever wrote these pages' version of plot armor? It sounds like they said that to say that the characters would win no matter what because they got plot armor.
His Powers and Abilities are organized in a very confusing and ineffective way, using gameplay mechanics far more than actual lore too.
"Base" Morgana is, quite literally, a real world cat. His "Base" form doesn't have any crazy powers or anything. In the Metaverse, Morgana gains a new appearance (the one of a cartoon cat I mentioned earlier), but it doesn't affect his power at all. In the Metaverse, Morgana can summon his Persona though, which is the thing that's granting him all of the powers he can possibly have.
Finally, I'm gonna end this rant with the fact that on the wiki, Joker (Ren Amamiya from before), the protagonist, who's able to use any Persona he wants, who's referred to as a Wild Card, who's constantly stated and shown to be way more powerful than anyone else from the Phantom Thieves, is ranked the exact same as Morgana. And also, again, they're both ranked higher than an actual God. There is no explanation as to why Joker or Morgana, or anyone else should be Outerverse level. They never show any kind of power like that, and this isn't supported by anything. The Phantom Thieves had to be all eight of them against Yaldabaoth to have a chance of winning, and yet the wiki claims the cat with wind attacks is stronger than God.
I am a Persona fan. I absolutely love this series so much, and I really am not doing this to try and say that those characters or this verse is weak, but it's annoying having all of this verse be scaled so badly with so many mistakes all over the place. I initially wanted to also include Persona 3 characters into this rant as they have the exact same problems, but it's already way longer than I wanted it to be so I'll stick to what I wrote above for now.
All of this verse's pages are protected, so no changes can be made, and I would love to be able to have these characters represented accurately!
