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Degradation? More like a change in wording (Tensura)
- Thread starter Eikichi_Sensei
- Start date
Astral_Trinity439
He/Him- 4,502
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Same as before, all this is just repetition. I'm arguing that veldora is knowledgeable, you're arguing he's a baby. I'm arguing you're misinterpreting the context of said scan, same goes for your side. So we'd have to agree to disagree here.Yes
Can you send me the scan showing the abilities "Shuna," "Diablo," "Benimaru," etc.? These abilities are required by a "Soul Corridor", and his skill isn't just "Soul Corridor."
No bro
He literally needs to create a soul corridor and turn it into an ultimate ability like Velgrynd.
You're misinterpreting this scan. It says: It creates a "Soul Corridor," yes, but not only that, it also gains an ability because it uses a combination of several things, gaining the "Veldora" ability.
Why bother explaining it if, according to you, "Soul Corridor" is enough?
The same applies to Velgrynd, and an explanation of how it's in the same situation as Veldora: it combines "Soul Corridor" and creates an ability from it.
Not just "Soul Corridor."
If that's the case, Rimuru would have to possess abilities like "Shuna," "Benimaru," "Zegion," etc. Something that was never hinted at in the story.
Repeating what I said before, there are only two examples (Veldora and Velgrynd, which does mention the same benefit despite being unknown) that we have regarding Soul Corridor + ability; we don't have Soul Corridor and abilities for Rimuru's subordinates.
Only "Soul Corridor."
Veldora is literally a baby compared to Raphael.
Raphael explained the benefits he gained with the "Veldora" ability.
The fact that Veldora is associated with "Soul Corridor" is not an argument to reject the benefits that the "Veldora" ability provides, which is the same thing Veldora explained in "Soul Corridor," only it's a baby
Nor does Veldora's explanation with Soul Corridor apply any more to him than to everyone else with "Soul Corridor."
I'll ignore this because it's irrelevant.
I don't need to prove that tho?If you cropped half the scan, I'd obviously agree with you. Unfortunately, that's not the case.
Now prove that Milim, Guy, etc., have a Soul Corridor with Rimuru and that the word "connection" simply refers to a Soul Corridor and not to a connection with people he met
I claimed that he can revive those "connected" to him, not literally everyone he knows. I already made that clear from the start.
The scan has ciel stating she can revive those connected to Rimuru (referring to soul corridor), and Rimuru refuses it. Then Rimuru laments on how no one he knew is present at the end of time and space. The first and last topic are not linked to each other. The names do not refer to those "connected" to Rimuru.
I mean legit you have a statement about reviving connected people, and then a statement of Rimuru lamenting on EVERYONE'S DEATH. How is that even linked to each other? Ciel herself said she can only make the world "close" to before, not 1:1.
You ain't cooking Eikichi, you ain't cooking.
That depends on you.
Sure
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The only time rimuru ever resurrected his people was Falmouth arc where he just restored the souls trapped inside the barrierSame as before, all this is just repetition. I'm arguing that veldora is knowledgeable, you're arguing he's a baby. I'm arguing you're misinterpreting the context of said scan, same goes for your side. So we'd have to agree to disagree here.
I don't need to prove that tho?
I claimed that he can revive those "connected" to him, not literally everyone he knows. I already made that clear from the start.
The scan has ciel stating she can revive those connected to Rimuru (referring to soul corridor), and Rimuru refuses it. Then Rimuru laments on how no one he knew is present at the end of time and space. The first and last topic are not linked to each other. The names do not refer to those "connected" to Rimuru.
I mean legit you have a statement about reviving connected people, and then a statement of Rimuru lamenting on EVERYONE'S DEATH. How is that even linked to each other? Ciel herself said she can only make the world "close" to before, not 1:1.
You ain't cooking Eikichi, you ain't cooking.
That depends on you.
Sure
Eikichi_Sensei
She/Her- 1,013
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- Thread starter
- #44
This response will serve as the main argument for everything discussed in this thread. It will include refutations and points that have been raised throughout the discussion.
According to this thread, the following happened:
However, that is not the case. This scan of Veldora's statement may seem to support that interpretation at first glance, but it is cropped and does not include the full context of the scene. As a result, some Tensura supporters take it to mean that anyone with a "Soul Corridor" receives the same benefits, which is not what the scene actually shows. Here is the full context of the scene (Three scans).
Do not confuse the spiritual body with the spiritual body that comes after the Astral body; the important thing is the heart mentioned in the first scan. Rimuru has Veldora's heart core, which is an important fact.
In the second scan, we can see a Soul Corridor being established between them, and after a few adjustments made by Raphael, the Ultimate Skill "Veldora, Lord of the Storm" was obtained.
Raphael then explains how the acquired Skill works. Only afterward does the naïve Veldora mention the "Soul Corridor," and Tensura supporters use that statement to argue that all of those benefits apply to anyone who possesses a "Soul Corridor." Their entire argument is based on the assumption that these benefits are universal to all Soul Corridor users.
This argument falls apart because we only have two cases where these benefits are actually shown: one involving Veldora and another involving Velgrynd, both of which follow the same process.
When Veldora was taken away from Rimuru and the "Soul Corridor" was severed, he lost the Ultimate Skill.
Furthermore, they argue, based on this, that the benefits come solely from the "Soul Corridor" itself, and not from the combination of three factors.
First, the character's Heart Core is obtained. Next, a Soul Corridor is established, and finally, it is integrated into an Ultimate Skill.
Here is the other example involving Velgrynd, who is the only other character with a statement similar to Veldora's, despite being Rimuru's enemy.
He devoured her, obtaining her heart core, creating the Soul Corridor, and gaining the ultimate ability. The same situation as Veldora (Four scans).
These are the only two instances in the entire story that suggest Veldora and Velgrynd received the same benefit. The same benefit would also apply to Rimuru, since Veldora and Velgrynd become part of him after being turned into his Skills, effectively functioning as sub-skills derived from each of them.
Veldora also uses a portion of Rimuru's power, which further supports the argument that, in the end, they are effectively one and the same, as stated in the scan.
There is also this argument that when Rimuru withdraws the launch of Velgrynd and Veldora, Rimuru regains all his power, implying that they are both part of him.
After those two statements from Velgrynd and Veldora, the story never again mentions any other character with a Soul Corridor—whether with Rimuru, with another person, or even with themselves—receiving the same benefits that Veldora attributes to the "Soul Corridor." Therefore, these benefits should not be treated as a general property of Soul Corridors, but rather as something unique to those two cases, both of which involve the same three-step process outlined earlier.
Now they mention this:
None of this compares to the benefits that Rimuru, Velgrynd, and Veldora receive.
He only highlights in bold the part he wants you to focus on, while ignoring the preceding context.
He only compared one single benefit to Veldora and Rimuru's situation, not all the benefits!
All of these statements involve Veldora alone. Do you know why? Because he is the only character with a direct statement regarding Rimuru. That is why he does not use scans from other characters. He cannot support his argument with Rimuru's subordinates or with other characters who possess a Soul Corridor, whether connected to Rimuru or to someone else, because that statement is unique to Veldora.
Now let's go over Veldora's statement, which is this:
This argument refers to the scan below: they send a fake body to invade because they can't send their real body to that world. If that's the case, why don't they summon their real body from their fake body, since that's one of the benefits Veldora mentions?
And if they mention the argument that they're afraid something might happen, unfortunately, in that chapter, it's clear these invaders weren't worried about anything, literally nothing, because the world is too weak for them, until Velgrynd appeared. So there's no reason to say it's out of fear or caution in invasions like this.
Scan you gave:
The worst part is that there is no declaration of vice-verca like Rimuru and Veldora or in this case real body and fake body.
I don't understand how you're associating everyone connected to Rimuru with a "Soul Corridor" rather than simply being acquaintances, friends, family, allies, or other types of relationships.
Looking at the full text, there is no indication that every person connected to Rimuru is linked through a "Soul Corridor."
Guy, Milim, the Demon Lords, and many other characters do not have a "Soul Corridor" with Rimuru.
To further reinforce this argument, there's also the phrase "recreate the memories of everyone involved with you" There is no basis for claiming that this refers only to the Soul Corridor, as I explained earlier. The Soul Corridor does not even exist between him and half of the characters mentioned in the scan.
We have a scan just a few paragraphs later that explicitly mentions the Soul Corridor. It makes me wonder why it is specifically brought up there, but not in the scan that you claim only applies to characters connected through a Soul Corridor, despite the fact that the context itself does not indicate that it is limited to people with a Soul Corridor.
Now I'm going to take the kanji from both texts and highlight the words that are used.
I have nothing more to add than that the words used are different and are not related to each other.
I also wonder why Rimuru is so distressed here if he can supposedly revive them through his "Soul Corridor." He does not react this way when it comes to Veldora or himself, especially when it is stated that as long as one of the two remains alive, the other can be restored regardless of the situation.
Lastly, the creator of the thread in which these benefits were originally accepted has already acknowledged that he was mistaken, which further supports the OP's position.
To summarize everything: throughout the entire story, it is never stated that the accepted benefits from the other thread are granted solely by the "Soul Corridor." Rather, the evidence points to a combination of three factors, not just one. Furthermore, nowhere in the story do we see Skills equivalent to Veldora or Velgrynd bearing the names of Rimuru's subordinates, such as "Shuna," "Benimaru," "Diablo," or "Zegion."
The opposition argues that the author does not need to repeatedly state that Rimuru can revive them or that they can revive him. However, whenever the author addresses this subject, the focus consistently remains on Veldora. Why? Because there is no statement anywhere in the story indicating that these benefits apply universally to all Soul Corridor users rather than being limited to those specific individuals.
The evidence presented throughout the series only supports three individuals, not every character connected through a Soul Corridor.
The author of the previous thread also acknowledged his mistake, which would facilitate the correction of the text.
The proposal is this:
It took hours to write this.
Edit: I'm going to sleep because I have to wake up early tomorrow, so I'll add your counterargument to the OP when I have time.
Edit 2: I've been discussing this with some people on Discord, and they suggested that I revise the wording. In short, I've presented arguments supporting that the Soul Corridor connection between them is a special case due to the specific steps involved (taking the core, establishing a Soul Corridor, and possessing the corresponding skill), which effectively allows both parties to function as backups of one another.
Because of this, I do not believe this should be applied to every Soul Corridor user. Rather, it appears to be a unique case involving only Veldora Tempest, Velgrynd, and Rimuru Tempest, and should not be generalized to all characters. Otherwise, it would have far-reaching implications that could undermine the internal balance of the story.
Thanks for reading.
According to this thread, the following happened:
As you can see, the bolded part is being misinterpreted by some Tensura supporters, as shown in examples like this:
Bro...
The Regen thing is from soul corridor
That's already accepted as HGR on concept and information lol
Same with type 6, 8, 9.
Because of that description, they are arguing that anyone with "Soul Corridor" gains the same benefits as the ones I showed earlier.
However, that is not the case. This scan of Veldora's statement may seem to support that interpretation at first glance, but it is cropped and does not include the full context of the scene. As a result, some Tensura supporters take it to mean that anyone with a "Soul Corridor" receives the same benefits, which is not what the scene actually shows. Here is the full context of the scene (Three scans).
Do not confuse the spiritual body with the spiritual body that comes after the Astral body; the important thing is the heart mentioned in the first scan. Rimuru has Veldora's heart core, which is an important fact.
In the second scan, we can see a Soul Corridor being established between them, and after a few adjustments made by Raphael, the Ultimate Skill "Veldora, Lord of the Storm" was obtained.
Raphael then explains how the acquired Skill works. Only afterward does the naïve Veldora mention the "Soul Corridor," and Tensura supporters use that statement to argue that all of those benefits apply to anyone who possesses a "Soul Corridor." Their entire argument is based on the assumption that these benefits are universal to all Soul Corridor users.
This argument falls apart because we only have two cases where these benefits are actually shown: one involving Veldora and another involving Velgrynd, both of which follow the same process.
When Veldora was taken away from Rimuru and the "Soul Corridor" was severed, he lost the Ultimate Skill.
Furthermore, they argue, based on this, that the benefits come solely from the "Soul Corridor" itself, and not from the combination of three factors.
First, the character's Heart Core is obtained. Next, a Soul Corridor is established, and finally, it is integrated into an Ultimate Skill.
Here is the other example involving Velgrynd, who is the only other character with a statement similar to Veldora's, despite being Rimuru's enemy.
He devoured her, obtaining her heart core, creating the Soul Corridor, and gaining the ultimate ability. The same situation as Veldora (Four scans).
These are the only two instances in the entire story that suggest Veldora and Velgrynd received the same benefit. The same benefit would also apply to Rimuru, since Veldora and Velgrynd become part of him after being turned into his Skills, effectively functioning as sub-skills derived from each of them.
Veldora also uses a portion of Rimuru's power, which further supports the argument that, in the end, they are effectively one and the same, as stated in the scan.
There is also this argument that when Rimuru withdraws the launch of Velgrynd and Veldora, Rimuru regains all his power, implying that they are both part of him.
After those two statements from Velgrynd and Veldora, the story never again mentions any other character with a Soul Corridor—whether with Rimuru, with another person, or even with themselves—receiving the same benefits that Veldora attributes to the "Soul Corridor." Therefore, these benefits should not be treated as a general property of Soul Corridors, but rather as something unique to those two cases, both of which involve the same three-step process outlined earlier.
Now they mention this:
A soul corridor is simply the act of placing a projection of your consciousness in a target. That can be an ally, or even a doll or object. That act creates an "avatar" with its own projected will.
None of this compares to the benefits that Rimuru, Velgrynd, and Veldora receive.
The relation between Veldora and Rimuru is quite literally classified as a general example of what having a Soul Corridor is like:
He only highlights in bold the part he wants you to focus on, while ignoring the preceding context.
He only compared one single benefit to Veldora and Rimuru's situation, not all the benefits!
Again, an empathize on how the revival is something possible due to a Soul corridor:
All of these statements involve Veldora alone. Do you know why? Because he is the only character with a direct statement regarding Rimuru. That is why he does not use scans from other characters. He cannot support his argument with Rimuru's subordinates or with other characters who possess a Soul Corridor, whether connected to Rimuru or to someone else, because that statement is unique to Veldora.
Now let's go over Veldora's statement, which is this:
If that were the case, then why don't these characters use their temporary bodies through the Soul Corridor to summon their true bodies? If the statement is supposedly applicable to everyone, shouldn't they be able to do the same?
This argument refers to the scan below: they send a fake body to invade because they can't send their real body to that world. If that's the case, why don't they summon their real body from their fake body, since that's one of the benefits Veldora mentions?
And if they mention the argument that they're afraid something might happen, unfortunately, in that chapter, it's clear these invaders weren't worried about anything, literally nothing, because the world is too weak for them, until Velgrynd appeared. So there's no reason to say it's out of fear or caution in invasions like this.
Scan you gave:
This argument about reviving their substitute bodies after death should not be taken literally either. There is a difference between the way those substitute bodies can be destroyed and revived and the situation involving Rimuru and Veldora. The two cases are not the same.
The worst part is that there is no declaration of vice-verca like Rimuru and Veldora or in this case real body and fake body.
.
It literally says Rimuru can recreate all memories of those connected/involved with him
I don't understand how you're associating everyone connected to Rimuru with a "Soul Corridor" rather than simply being acquaintances, friends, family, allies, or other types of relationships.
Looking at the full text, there is no indication that every person connected to Rimuru is linked through a "Soul Corridor."
Guy, Milim, the Demon Lords, and many other characters do not have a "Soul Corridor" with Rimuru.
To further reinforce this argument, there's also the phrase "recreate the memories of everyone involved with you" There is no basis for claiming that this refers only to the Soul Corridor, as I explained earlier. The Soul Corridor does not even exist between him and half of the characters mentioned in the scan.
We have a scan just a few paragraphs later that explicitly mentions the Soul Corridor. It makes me wonder why it is specifically brought up there, but not in the scan that you claim only applies to characters connected through a Soul Corridor, despite the fact that the context itself does not indicate that it is limited to people with a Soul Corridor.
Now I'm going to take the kanji from both texts and highlight the words that are used.
I have nothing more to add than that the words used are different and are not related to each other.
I also wonder why Rimuru is so distressed here if he can supposedly revive them through his "Soul Corridor." He does not react this way when it comes to Veldora or himself, especially when it is stated that as long as one of the two remains alive, the other can be restored regardless of the situation.
Lastly, the creator of the thread in which these benefits were originally accepted has already acknowledged that he was mistaken, which further supports the OP's position.
To summarize everything: throughout the entire story, it is never stated that the accepted benefits from the other thread are granted solely by the "Soul Corridor." Rather, the evidence points to a combination of three factors, not just one. Furthermore, nowhere in the story do we see Skills equivalent to Veldora or Velgrynd bearing the names of Rimuru's subordinates, such as "Shuna," "Benimaru," "Diablo," or "Zegion."
The opposition argues that the author does not need to repeatedly state that Rimuru can revive them or that they can revive him. However, whenever the author addresses this subject, the focus consistently remains on Veldora. Why? Because there is no statement anywhere in the story indicating that these benefits apply universally to all Soul Corridor users rather than being limited to those specific individuals.
The evidence presented throughout the series only supports three individuals, not every character connected through a Soul Corridor.
The author of the previous thread also acknowledged his mistake, which would facilitate the correction of the text.
The proposal is this:
Edit 2: I've been discussing this with some people on Discord, and they suggested that I revise the wording. In short, I've presented arguments supporting that the Soul Corridor connection between them is a special case due to the specific steps involved (taking the core, establishing a Soul Corridor, and possessing the corresponding skill), which effectively allows both parties to function as backups of one another.
Because of this, I do not believe this should be applied to every Soul Corridor user. Rather, it appears to be a unique case involving only Veldora Tempest, Velgrynd, and Rimuru Tempest, and should not be generalized to all characters. Otherwise, it would have far-reaching implications that could undermine the internal balance of the story.
It remains the same mechanism, only specified so that it is not for all users with "Soul Corridor" ((I do not want it to be argued later that Rimuru and Veldora's situation automatically means that all Soul Corridor users possess the same benefits as they do)
Thanks for reading.
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Astral_Trinity439
He/Him- 4,502
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I'll create a summary for all my arguments too, by tomorrow. Gtg sleep now, 3am 
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@Astral_Trinity439
I've been asked to evaluate this, but I would like for your debate to finish first.
I've been asked to evaluate this, but I would like for your debate to finish first.
Astral_Trinity439
He/Him- 4,502
- 6,701
Sorry, I've been busy with other things recently
I'll try to make that final summary by tomorrow!
Astral_Trinity439
He/Him- 4,502
- 6,701
Alright, so I'll do this in heading format instead of replying to every single line from the op and their replies.
What is a Soul Corridor
A soul corridor is simply the act of placing a projection of your consciousness in a target. That can be an ally, or even a doll or object. That act creates an "avatar" with its own projected will.
So essentially, while your "main body" lies dormant with all its information and ego safe, there's a projected ego inside a host that you can control. When the soul corridor is between different people rather than between your own clone and main body, it basically involves storing a backup of yourself inside the other person's self:
The relation between Veldora and Rimuru is quite literally classified as a general example of what having a Soul Corridor is like:
Again, an empathize on how the revival is something possible due to a Soul corridor:
There is NO MENTION of this being due Veldora's own natural powers as a true dragon.
There's also this example where Ciel said she can recreate those connected to Rimuru to make a world close to what it was before from Rimuru's perspective:
Now moving on the the OP's main concerns:
Why Veldora?
Well, the OP basically says that because the revival function is shown only with Veldora, it is limited to veldora (and velgrynd). They claim it is not a general feature of the Soul Corridor, because it has not been shown with other characters.
This has a few problems:
So basically, the OP says that the reason Ciel can revive them is because Rimuru has become a god-like existence, and also says that Ciel can revive even those that aren't connected to him via a soul corridor because the names of them are mentioned when Rimuru morns about the death of his friends. And that what I'm claiming means Ciel can't revive those not connected to rimuru, including those rimuru holds important but doesn't have a soul corridor with.
This also has its own problems:
So the OP claims that the soul corridor's special effects with veldora and velgrynd are due to rimuru acquiring skills like "storm dragon king, veldora" and "scorch dragon king, velgrynd", which facilitates the revival function. But this also has many problems:
I hope this covered all the main arguments. Let me know if I forgot to cover something. And @Eikichi_Sensei, I prefer if we don't reply to each other and repeat the same arguments further under different colors, and just let the staff judge.
Could you also ping other staff that often come to tensura crts to both of our summaries? Mainly @Elizhaa @SomebodyData @DarkDragonMedeus @KingTempest
What is a Soul Corridor
A soul corridor is simply the act of placing a projection of your consciousness in a target. That can be an ally, or even a doll or object. That act creates an "avatar" with its own projected will.
(Both scans from V10).
So essentially, while your "main body" lies dormant with all its information and ego safe, there's a projected ego inside a host that you can control. When the soul corridor is between different people rather than between your own clone and main body, it basically involves storing a backup of yourself inside the other person's self:
The relation between Veldora and Rimuru is quite literally classified as a general example of what having a Soul Corridor is like:
Again, an empathize on how the revival is something possible due to a Soul corridor:
(V15)
There is NO MENTION of this being due Veldora's own natural powers as a true dragon.
There's also this example where Ciel said she can recreate those connected to Rimuru to make a world close to what it was before from Rimuru's perspective:
(because duh, Rimuru would have stored backups of everyone connected to him via the soul corridor.
Now moving on the the OP's main concerns:
Why Veldora?
Well, the OP basically says that because the revival function is shown only with Veldora, it is limited to veldora (and velgrynd). They claim it is not a general feature of the Soul Corridor, because it has not been shown with other characters.
This has a few problems:
- There is absolutely no point in empathizing that the soul corridor will revive someone if they die whenever someone has a soul corridor with anyone else. What the OP is asking, is like requiring the author to say "X attack can destroy the universe" every time it's used by anyone, just because that statement was said once or twice. That is simply not how novel writing works. We cannot ask the author to write that kind of novel filled to the brim with details unnecessary from a normal reader's perspective. There's a reason why we ban novels or settings made for battleboarding.
- The statements with Veldora are written in such a way that they get the general idea across, that the soul corridor can revive those sharing it as long as both don't die at once.
- Because other characters don't face situations where they would require Rimuru to revive them through the soul corridor. Veldora's entire character is about being super-strong but often reckless, for which the soul corridor is a plot device to justify Veldora being care-free. Not all characters have this personality, in fact, most of them are cautious and simply try not to die, because they consider failing rimuru's expectations as something very, very bad.
- We do have an example given by Ciel where she says she can revive everyone connected to him.
So basically, the OP says that the reason Ciel can revive them is because Rimuru has become a god-like existence, and also says that Ciel can revive even those that aren't connected to him via a soul corridor because the names of them are mentioned when Rimuru morns about the death of his friends. And that what I'm claiming means Ciel can't revive those not connected to rimuru, including those rimuru holds important but doesn't have a soul corridor with.
This also has its own problems:
- Part of OP's argument is an appeal to tradition. Just because someone became a god-like existence doesn't mean they are omnipotent, not even close. This is the same type of argument as "well your character is considered weak in his verse while mine is considered god in his own verse, so mine wins", even if the "weak" character is tier 5 in a tier 4 verse and the god-tier is tier 7 in a tier 9 verse.
- The thing with Rimuru's mention of his friends is simply about Rimuru being sad that those he held dear are dead. Ciel herself said she can create a world close to what it was before, not a 1:1 level of replication. Rimuru being sad about his friends' death and denial of world recreation has little to do with Ciel being or not being able to recreate a world that's 1:1 or, let's say, 1:1/2.
- The last part is an appeal to emotions since the OP argues that Ciel has to be referring to every single person Rimuru holds dear, when that is never implied and, so to say, even denied when Ciel says she can recreate a world "close" to before, not perfect. Just because my interpretation means not all of rimuru's friends can be revived and only the soul corridor connected ones can be revived, does not mean it's false. This novel is not about everything turning out optimally from Rimuru's perspective. The author already establishes this with the various dark turns in the story. It is not a "you convince everyone with the power of love and friendship", it never was and never will be.
So the OP claims that the soul corridor's special effects with veldora and velgrynd are due to rimuru acquiring skills like "storm dragon king, veldora" and "scorch dragon king, velgrynd", which facilitates the revival function. But this also has many problems:
- It is directly said many times that the soul corridor is not derived from the skill but vice versa; the skill derives itself from the soul corridor. Reestablishing a broken soul corridor lets you reacquire this skill.
- The whole point of this skill is to let rimuru use veldora's abilities early in the volumes even before he consumes and copies all of veldora's abilities and nature in Volume 15, as he isn't his "subordinates", he aren't covered by Rimuru's food chain which lets him use all skills from all of his subordinates.
- On the other hand, there's no need to make a separate skill for each subordinate when he can already get skills from them via food chain, and give them his abilities via food chain as well.
I hope this covered all the main arguments. Let me know if I forgot to cover something. And @Eikichi_Sensei, I prefer if we don't reply to each other and repeat the same arguments further under different colors, and just let the staff judge.
Done!
Could you also ping other staff that often come to tensura crts to both of our summaries? Mainly @Elizhaa @SomebodyData @DarkDragonMedeus @KingTempest
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Eikichi_Sensei
She/Her- 1,013
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Yes, please tag the staff
.
Eikichi_Sensei
She/Her- 1,013
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- Thread starter
- #51
Yes, please. If someone can edit the SOP, could you please add Astral's argument? I'm on my phone and can't edit bike from here.
These are the two arguments from both sides.
These are the two arguments from both sides.
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What is needed here?
Eikichi_Sensei
She/Her- 1,013
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A change in the wording of something written 2-3 years ago that causes misinterpretation.
The main argument is this:
And the counterargument is this:
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Doesn't Ciel's statement prove that people can be revived via the Soul Corridor who aren't Veldora? In that case, what's being argued here?
Eikichi_Sensei
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The debate is that it's only for characters like Rimuru, Veldora, and Velgrynd.
Not that the benefits extend to everyone who has Soul Corridor.
Ciel's resurrection says "involved," and it doesn't seem to be only those who have Soul Corridor with Rimuru, because most characters don't have it with Rimuru.
Soul Corridor is mentioned later and the word associations are different in both contexts.
Astral_Trinity439
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Yes. Besides, the whole idea of Rimuru equating his relation with Veldora to a general soul corridor with his subordinates already related all of them to each other.
Ah, btw, I did check the raws, and it says "just as", not "kind of/somewhat like".
We should ping raiki if we wanna debate the translations
Will you do the honors of pinging @RaikiKurohane99 ? :d
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I think it depends on whether the Soul Corridors function as perfect memory backups.
I went back and read the section myself, and the part where Rimuru says they would have “as close to the same memories as possible” stands out. If he is going to revive them through the Soul Corridors, that wording should help us figure out what he means.
If Soul Corridors were perfect memory backups, there would be no reason to say “as close as possible.” He could simply say their memories would be the same. On the other hand, if there are mentions of Soul Corridor memory backups not being perfect, then I would assume he is talking about the Soul Corridor revival method.
I went back and read the section myself, and the part where Rimuru says they would have “as close to the same memories as possible” stands out. If he is going to revive them through the Soul Corridors, that wording should help us figure out what he means.
If Soul Corridors were perfect memory backups, there would be no reason to say “as close as possible.” He could simply say their memories would be the same. On the other hand, if there are mentions of Soul Corridor memory backups not being perfect, then I would assume he is talking about the Soul Corridor revival method.
Eikichi_Sensei
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My biggest problem is that it's assumed all users with a Soul Corridor have HGR, Immo, etc., which were granted to Rimuru by Veldora (only he and Velgrynd are mentioned, no one else).
It's a special case.
Guy, Milim, and other characters don't have a Soul Corridor with Rimuru, so that statement doesn't apply exclusively to those who do. Obviously, the world won't be the same as before if there are very few people involved with Rimuru and he hasn't seen the entire world.
Could you also tell me why you only use Ciel's word for characters in "Soul Corridor"? I'm curious.
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What does this have to do with what I just said?
Eikichi_Sensei
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Perhaps I didn't understand it correctly?
The scan comes from here, which is right after Ciel says "involved".
Do you associate it with "Soul Corridor"?
I find it inconsistent to relate them.
If we take the scan of Veldora says "All his memory".
In contrast, Rimuru says "the closest" so it must be different.
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Are you talking about the part where the world can be recreated as close as possible? Because that part has the kanji which says "as close as possible". This also includes the world environment and everything about the world and not just the memories. Specifically, Ciel says it can recreate "all" the memories of everyone involved with rimuru and reproduce the world environment "as close as" possible.
There's also another part where this is mentioned
Here the kanji stated was "infinitely the same". Although you can get the confirmation from another translator like Raiki. Although the context here is rimuru saying "even if" they had infinitely the same memory and identical DNA.
Just gonna say something. This was translated in a kanji website. This is just a rough translation. It can't be used as a solid clarification for anything. I hope you can tag @RaikiKurohane99 here for his confirmation on the topic. His input would be able to clarify any doubts you might have.
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Yeah. That's what I was asking.
Unless there's something that shows that Soul Corridor's saved memories are imperfect, then I see no reason for Ciel's offer to recreate the world to be tied into Soul Corridors, since it implies their memories would be slightly different from their actual ones.
@RaikiKurohane99
Would you mind clarifying the translation above?
Eikichi_Sensei
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Here is the full context in Japanese:
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Although I also find Ciel's situation very strange when he says "recreate" instead of "resurrect/revive".
When Rimuru doesn't care much about what happens to either himself or Veldora if they were to die, and vice versa.
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There's no point in recreating it if you have a backup or copy from that person :/
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It only remains to say that his subordinates were never in the same situation as Veldora at any time.
When Rimuru doesn't care much about what happens to either himself or Veldora if they were to die, and vice versa.
Gyazo
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There's no point in recreating it if you have a backup or copy from that person :/
Gyazo
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It only remains to say that his subordinates were never in the same situation as Veldora at any time.
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I think I can explain this, the reason is simple, resurrection in Tensura is treated "as close as possible", simply due to their personality having slight alterations, while everything else stays the same.
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