JJK: Large Mountain level+ God Tiers - Dabura KE Scaling

ElJoaki5 · Mar 7, 2026

Permission granted by @AbaddonTheDisappointment

Feat / Introduction
In Modulo Chapter 19 Dabura runs at sub-light speeds, getting closer and closer to light. Running through many buildings and withstanding his kinetic energy without damage.

This feat is calculated to be Large Mountain level to Island level depending on the end used, which will be explained below.

Note: What is being calculated here is the KE of Dabura running before the kick. Not the KE of the kick.

Why Dabura is THAT fast
High End speed
This end is based on the fact that the manga heavily implied that Dabura was moving faster and faster until reaching the speed of light with his kick at the end.

We are first established that, despite Dabura having his lightspeed technique, he could never reach light-speed because his body can't handle full on light-speed. Dabura, in this case is ready to fully achieve warriorhood, so he decides to shatter his own body's limits (light-speed) just to beat Mahoraga.

He starts at near light-speed immediatly, right after INITIATING his "dance". However instead of stopping there as he normally would (as he could never reach light-speed), since Dabura is intending to break his limits, he continues to accelerate "more..!! more..!!" to reach the light (NOTE: he was already moving at high relativistic speeds here as seen by the effects and how he is running right alongside the light, you can see the effects were already high relativistic speed effects).

As he jumps, he approaches the speed of light (as in the context that he's just about to reach it) and we even get the parallel of "reaching the warriors" as he's about to reach speed of light with the previous dialogue of "reach the light" he did. He knows his body will give in cause he can't handle light-speed but he doesn't care he will reach the light, reaching the warriors. And we even get the representation of him fully reaching as he kicks Mahoraga at the exact same time his own light breaks the glass, as he just "shattered his own body's limits".

So if we consider that, that would mean that Dabura had to first run through all the speeds below light while building up speed, including 0.93 c (which would be the KE limit) before finally reaching light speed with the kick.

Low End speed
In the case the idea that Dabura reached light speed isn’t accepted, the low end should be fine regardless.

The speed in this case would be simply based on the fact that Dabura runs at sub-light speeds and gets closer and closer to light. And when doing so, Dabura suffers noticeable effects of moving at high Relativistic speeds. Light appears concentrated in the point he is running towards while his surroundings look dark and objects Dabura runs towards look longer than they actually are. This end considers his speed to be 0.75 c based on those effects and the fact that that’s the speed commonly used for when characters move at near light speeds.

Why KE is valid
Due to the realistic portrayal of Relativistic speed effects and Kinetic Energy in Modulo and the stated relation between power, mass and speed, it should be fine to apply the Kinetic Energy formula to this case.

"Speed can be used to find KE when a verse consistently treats speed, and its relation to attack potency, in a realistic manner. Calculating kinetic energy from a character's speed isn't problematic, if it's clear that the story they're from doesn't separate speed from one's general capacity for destruction."

While some may consider this to not be valid due to the damage caused by Dabura's kick not being that high. The intent of the series to realistically portray the relation between energy and speed is more relevant.

This part was already accepted by a CGM so it shouldn’t be much of a discussion.

Why Durability is valid
This is actually quite simple. While Dabura was running at this speed he ran through a ton of buildings without taking any damage, which would make his durability scale to his running kinetic energy. In addition to this he also needs to withstand the speed caused by his technique when using it.

People are probably gonna bring up that Dabura shouldn’t scale to this because of how his foot got charred when he kicked, but that doesn’t disprove anything.

First of all what is being calculated is Dabura running BEFORE the kick. Noone is trying to scale Dabura's durability to the kick.

As explained before, Dabura was building up speed, getting closer and closer to light speed and he finished up with a kick which actually reached light speed. This kick harming him would not be a contradiction to Dabura's durability scaling to his running KE, this is because this kick had higher speed and energy than his run did. It obviously wouldn’t make sense to not scale Dabura to something just because he got hurt by something else which is considerably more powerful than that.

This is backed up by the story itself as it says that the thing his body cant handle is the acceleration of light, which explains why his leg got skibidi nuked while the rest didnt, the leg was at the acceleration of light, the rest of the body wasn’t.

And even if you don’t believe Dabura reached light speed with the kick, it’s still obvious that Dabura's kick was at a higher speed that him running before that, since he was building up speed. In any case that shouldn’t be used to disprove this feat.

So Dabura's light speed kick would just scale higher than Dabura's running KE. With Dabura's running ke scaling to his normal durability.

Scaling
Sukuna has a clear scaling to Dabura since Dabura is stated to be a Sukuna level threat multiple times. These are valid statements since the modulo promotional videos reveal that both Tengen/The Narrator and Yuji confirm this statement of them being equal.

Later on there's also how Yuji stated that he could deal with Dabura if Yuka lost. Yuji shouldn’t be too far from Sukuna in power since it’s stated that his latent potential is equal to Sukuna, neither should he be too far from Gojo. In support to this, it is stated that nominating anyone other than Yuji to duel Dabura would be out of the question.

Some supportive evidence for this scaling is the direct parallel between Dabura and Sukuna, with both being calamities.

So in that case the characters to scale to this feat are Modulo Yuji, Dabura, Gojo, Sukuna and Shinjuku Mahoraga (As explained before Dabura would be higher with light speed kick).

Votes
@Damage3245 Disagree with scaling
@Planck69 Agree with everything (High End) except scaling
@KingTempest Agree with AP (High End), disagree with durability and scaling
@Armorchompy Agree to Low End usage
@AbaddonTheDisappointment Full agree
@Random-Helper323 Agree with AP
@Dalesean027 Agree with AP (High End) neutral on rest
@Nierre Agree with durability for Dabura, disagree with scaling

AbaddonTheDisappointment · Mar 7, 2026

Zyurtunder13 said:
Disagree heavily with scaling Gojo, Sukuna and Shinjuku Mahoraga to Dabura at all, just using baseless claims as trying to put them as "equals" is dumb, until they have actual feats or ACTUAL statements of them being on the same level as Sukuna they don't scale at all

Did you get permission from any staff to actually post?

Also following the thread. Also going to ping @KingTempest and @Duedate8898 cause you're both usually involved with JJK threads

KingTempest · Mar 8, 2026

AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
Did you get permission from any staff to actually post?

Also following the thread. Also going to ping @KingTempest and @Duedate8898 cause you're both usually involved with JJK threads

Bro summoned me like I was a pokemon

Gimme till tomorrow. I like some things, I also hate some things.

Tuxidoe_Redo · Mar 8, 2026

I wanna add that I don't think Sukuna should be compared to Yuji in terms of raw power. We saw his dismantle being more destructive than Sukuna's Fuga and Gojo's Hollow Purple. Yes they can have the same potential but doesn't mean they are on par in terms of power as Yuji likely to be way more experienced than Sukuna is (as fighting actual strong opponents multiple times compared to Sukuna who only has Gojo as an actual challenge)

In terms of scaling, Yuji > Dabura >= Modulo Mahoraga > Gokuna

ElJoaki5 · Mar 8, 2026

Tuxidoe_Redo said:
Yes they can have the same potential but doesn't mean they are on par in terms of power as Yuji likely to be way more experienced than Sukuna is (as fighting actual strong opponents multiple times compared to Sukuna who only has Gojo as an actual challenge)

The statement is not that they have the same potential, the statement is that Yuji has the potential to be equal to the Sukuna of that time.

BiggestOpp · Mar 8, 2026

PapiSavitar5025 said:
🫩

Get permission to speak poopy head.

Tuxidoe_Redo said:
In terms of scaling, Yuji > Dabura >= Modulo Mahoraga > Gokuna

I got a gut feeling that more and more comments like this are going to appear so I feel like I should say something before more goons show up.

If you’re given permission to speak, PLEASE, put all agenda aside and address OP’s arguments as they’re laid out. Chiming in and just laying down raw scaling isn’t going to do anything but cause other people to debate that specific scale rather than OP’s actual arguments.

Tuxidoe_Redo · Mar 8, 2026

BiggestOpp said:
Get permission to speak poopy head.

I got a gut feeling that more and more comments like this are going to appear so I feel like I should say something before more goons show up.

If you’re given permission to speak, PLEASE, put all agenda aside and address OP’s arguments as they’re laid out. Chiming in and just laying down raw scaling isn’t going to do anything but cause other people to debate that specific scale rather than OP’s actual arguments.

Just said the scaling would only effect Yuji since his potential stated to be the same as Sukuna doesn't mean Sukuna's power is comparable to Yuji (as Yuji has far superior experience and shown better destructive feats). Also no mentions that Yuji cant surpass Sukuna

Also not sure why my posts got deleted when I got permission by Abaddon

AbaddonTheDisappointment · Mar 8, 2026

Tuxidoe_Redo said:
I wanna add that I don't think Sukuna should be compared to Yuji in terms of raw power. We saw his dismantle being more destructive than Sukuna's Fuga and Gojo's Hollow Purple. Yes they can have the same potential but doesn't mean they are on par in terms of power as Yuji likely to be way more experienced than Sukuna is (as fighting actual strong opponents multiple times compared to Sukuna who only has Gojo as an actual challenge)

In terms of scaling, Yuji > Dabura >= Modulo Mahoraga > Gokuna

Tuxidoe_Redo said:
Just said the scaling would only effect Yuji since his potential stated to be the same as Sukuna doesn't mean Sukuna's power is comparable to Yuji (as Yuji has far superior experience and shown better destructive feats)

Also not sure why my posts got deleted when I got permission by Abaddon

Yeah just noticed it got deleted so I undeleted it. He got permission from me to speak on my wall

BiggestOpp said:
Get permission to speak poopy head.

I got a gut feeling that more and more comments like this are going to appear so I feel like I should say something before more goons show up.

If you’re given permission to speak, PLEASE, put all agenda aside and address OP’s arguments as they’re laid out. Chiming in and just laying down raw scaling isn’t going to do anything but cause other people to debate that specific scale rather than OP’s actual arguments.

He also got permission from me to speak just incase also

Tuxidoe_Redo · Mar 8, 2026

ElJoaki5 said:
The statement is not that they have the same potential, the statement is that Yuji has the potential to be equal to the Sukuna of that time.

I wanna add while Yuji is stated having the potential to be equal to Sukuna, there is ZERO mentions that Yuji cant SURPASS Sukuna. Also regarding the on par with Sukuna statements, it's described by people who doesn't know anything about Dabura, they never even see how he fights or showcase how powerful he is

ElJoaki5 · Mar 8, 2026

Tuxidoe_Redo said:
I wanna add while Yuji is stated having the potential to be equal to Sukuna, there is ZERO mentions that Yuji cant SURPASS Sukuna. Also regarding the on par with Sukuna statements, it's described by people who doesn't know anything about Dabura, they never even see how he fights or showcase how powerful he is

Dabura being comparable to Sukuna is a matter of clear narrative intent. This is something that is stated constantly through the series so it seems ridiculous to just ignore it because "the people who said it couldn’t know". And even then, in the case of the promotional videos, this is something that is supported by the narrator and Yuji himself. While at it here’s some more supportive evidence on this.

And yes, this narrative portrayal of the four strongest being comparable also extends to Yuji.

GodEarh206 · Mar 8, 2026

ElJoaki5 said:
the people who said it couldn’t know

Yes, that's exactly right. Dabura himself pushed himself to the limit and fought seriously to achieve the "Near-Light" speed and KE that you calculated.

What the "Narrative" or "Statements" are trying to say is that Dabura's "threat" is on par with Sukuna's from the past, and that only those who "have previously stopped Sukuna" can "fight" him. And as I mentioned above, the "Near-Light Speed" ability, something humanity has never witnessed when he uses it, only proves that they have little (or no) information about Dabura's true capabilities; it seems they judge him by his Cursed Energy output? But overall, the "Sukuna Threat Level" isn't enough to scale Dabura's KE to Satoru or Sukuna himself.

Damage3245 · Mar 8, 2026

GodEarh206 makes sense to me.

Sukuna and Dabura are not comparable to each other in terms of speed. I don't know why they'd necessarily be comparable to each other in other specific statistics like durability. Being the same "threat level" is vague.

Planck69 · Mar 8, 2026

I'm fine with the high-end of the feat being used for Dabura's physical statistics, since it's pretty straightforward.

That said I'd much rather see something concrete for characters who neither fight nor are directly compared to him to scale to Dabura beyond "narrative intent". The only comparisons I can see seem to come from characters who would have no reason to know how powerful Dabura actually is.

KingTempest · Mar 8, 2026

Okay.

ElJoaki5 said:
Permission granted by @AbaddonTheDisappointment

Feat / Introduction
In Modulo Chapter 19 Dabura runs at sub-light speeds, getting closer and closer to light. Running through many buildings and withstanding his kinetic energy without damage.

This feat is calculated to be Mountain level+ to Large Mountain level+ depending on the end used, which will be explained below.

Note: What is being calculated here is the KE of Dabura running before the kick. Not the KE of the kick.

Why Dabura is THAT fast
High End speed
Low End speed

I highly doubt that his initial speed was already like Rel or something, but it really doesn't matter. If we know that at one point he reaches lightspeed from accelerating from far less than lightspeed, he passes those already. High End Speed is perfectly fine.

ElJoaki5 said:
Why KE is valid

Not an issue at all. So far everything's clear cut. Good job with your scans and explanations though.

ElJoaki5 said:
Why Durability is valid

So I disagree here.

Usually we scale with Newton's Third Law when you do something like hit something strong enough to withstand your damage or at the very least in the wide margin of error around it. This is why usually we scale when people hit people. Scaling whole body kinetic energy is a ball of whack.
But Dabura's body is already so strong that even if he didn't accelerate he would be able to run through buildings already. Plus running through buildings isn't really impressive, it's just running through decently spaced out walls. A bunch of repeated 9-C to 9-B feats in that regard.
This is akin to like, a regular human running at top speed through cardboard. You don't need 10-A durability to sprint through cardboard.

This is shown that his body isn't usually supposed to handle this cause like, his body was smoking and bleeding just... turning the move on.

The other CGMs can attest, but I'm not a fan of this line of logic. But it'd be weird to be like, High 7-C dura and 7-A AP, so I don't care too much to argue it, I just don't believe it's accurate

ElJoaki5 said:
Scaling
Sukuna has a clear scaling to Dabura since Dabura is stated to be a Sukuna level threat multiple times. These are valid statements since the modulo promotional videos reveal that both Tengen/The Narrator and Yuji confirm this statement of them being equal.

Later on there's also how Yuji stated that he could deal with Dabura if Yuka lost. Yuji shouldn’t be too far from Sukuna in power since it’s stated that his latent potential is equal to Sukuna. In support to this, it is stated that nominating anyone other than Yuji to duel Dabura would be out of the question.

Some supportive evidence for this scaling is the direct parallel between Dabura and Sukuna, with both being calamities.

So in that case the characters to scale to this feat are Modulo Yuji, Dabura, Gojo, Sukuna and Shinjuku Mahoraga (As explained before Dabura would be higher with light speed kick).

Here's my issue.

I think it's fine to scale em regarding scaling to Dabura.
I'm not a fan of scaling to Dabura's strongest move.
Half the things that Dabura did in the fight against Mahoraga, this was his first time doing. Including this. Like when he made Darkness with CT reversal, they didn't know he could do that. Same with Domain Expansion.

In the context of these statements, they measure him by his base capabilities alone. They say their statements just on the visible showings of his presence, not even him fighting.
He's a Sukuna level threat in base.

This would be the same if you saw that it says he's a Sukuna level threat and you choose to scale him to like... Kamino. No. Regular capabilities.

On top of that, your scans miss a lot of context.

Tengenarrator's statement is fine, so if you wanna scale Dabura to Sukuna, then use that and that alone, because the other ones suck.

Those other ones don't say that Dabura is a Sukuna level threat.
They say that the invasion of the Simurians is a Sukuna level threat.
It's just the fact that they have him is a big part as to why. And at that moment, they didn't even know they had him.

Also, we see that this generation probably has the worst understanding of Sukuna's strength... ever.
Like the way they word it, if we didn't get the JJK manga, you'd look at it and think
"Sukuna is so strong that he can form random craters by doing nothing. Gojo, Yuji, and some more are the ones who defeated him."
I know they have video, but they don't truly know how strong he is.
Like look at the lore they have regarding Yuta.
"Sukuna's responsible for the scar on Yuta's forehead." No he is not.
They're just loud and ignorant.
This is just a personal gripe though. I'm fine with scaling to Dabura. Just... don't use these scans for proof.

So don't use those scans. Just use the Tengen one.

Scaling is contradicted by scaling amped Dabura to Sukuna too.
Cause Mahoraga is equal to Sukuna and Gojo physically. We see that in the fight.
With his CT, he was able to hurt Mahoraga, showing that Dabura has scaling to them. So they don't need to be on their level. In fact, when his light wasn't working, he forgot that he had CQC. He literally said "Do I not have any other way to fight back?"
When it came to physicals, Mahoraga beat his ass.

But then when he amped his durability, the same durability you're now trying to scale to Sukuna and them, he literally shattered his main weapon by blocking.
Same weapon that took a Black Flash from Gojo. He shattered it by blocking. This accelerated movement literally is stronger than a Gojo Black Flash.

So my verdict.
1. Speed is fine.
2. KE is fine.
3. Dura is shaky.
4. Scaling to Dabura is fine
4b. Scaling to Dabura's sub-light movement dura is objectively wrong.

KingTempest · Mar 8, 2026

I already saw offsite people don't read so imma say it here.

I am not saying "they're scaling to the kick and the kick is so strong"
I'm saying "Dabura is more durable than them even without that lightspeed kick"

ElJoaki5 · Mar 8, 2026

Damage3245 said:
GodEarh206 makes sense to me.

Sukuna and Dabura are not comparable to each other in terms of speed. I don't know why they'd necessarily be comparable to each other in other specific statistics like durability. Being the same "threat level" is vague.

Dabura's speed is a specially high trait of his due to his cursed technique being one that revolves around speed. This is not the case for his durability so it doesnt make sense to compare the two. And Ui Ui states that Dabura would be able to show the current generation what they used to call power (that being Gojo and Sukuna).

Even if you dont buy that, the yuji itadori statement is still there as shown in the OP. Yuji could take down Dabura, therefore he scales to his durability (this statement being after the relativistic speed feat) and as i already explained Sukuna and Gojo would also scale to Itadori.

Planck69 said:
That said I'd much rather see something concrete for characters who neither fight nor are directly compared to him to scale to Dabura beyond "narrative intent". The only comparisons I can see seem to come from characters who would have no reason to know how powerful Dabura actually is.

One of these statements in the OP comes from the literal narrator, that should obviously be valid. Please check again.

ElJoaki5 · Mar 8, 2026

KingTempest said:
So I disagree here.

Usually we scale with Newton's Third Law when you do something like hit something strong enough to withstand your damage or at the very least in the wide margin of error around it. This is why usually we scale when people hit people. Scaling whole body kinetic energy is a ball of whack.
But Dabura's body is already so strong that even if he didn't accelerate he would be able to run through buildings already. Plus running through buildings isn't really impressive, it's just running through decently spaced out walls. A bunch of repeated 9-C to 9-B feats in that regard.
This is akin to like, a regular human running at top speed through cardboard. You don't need 10-A durability to sprint through cardboard.

As was shown with Curse Naoya, it is necessary to have high enough durability to sustain high speeds.
But most importantly, at this point Dabura moves so fast that the air behaves more like a solid. Under such circumstances moving would be like smashing into the air, so his durability would have to scale.

KingTempest said:
Here's my issue.

I think it's fine to scale em regarding scaling to Dabura.
I'm not a fan of scaling to Dabura's strongest move.
Half the things that Dabura did in the fight against Mahoraga, this was his first time doing. Including this. Like when he made Darkness with CT reversal, they didn't know he could do that. Same with Domain Expansion.

In the context of these statements, they measure him by his base capabilities alone. They say their statements just on the visible showings of his presence, not even him fighting.
He's a Sukuna level threat in base.

This would be the same if you saw that it says he's a Sukuna level threat and you choose to scale him to like... Kamino. No. Regular capabilities.

I wouldn’t say he has a base form of any kind, the change in his durability and fighting was not caused by some kind of upgrade, what changed in him was instead his resolve. When he became determined to become a warrior is when he shattered Mahoraga's sword and increased his durability, not when he used his technique on himself as that was later. Such a thing would not represent a different key, it would just means he is beginning to fight seriously without subconsciously holding back in a way. This reasoning doesn’t apply, at least to his durability.

But most importantly, your comment doesn’t acknowledge the other line of scaling presented in the OP, that being Yuji Itadori. One that is presented after Dabura showcased his relativistic feat.

KingTempest said:
Scaling is contradicted by scaling amped Dabura to Sukuna too.
Cause Mahoraga is equal to Sukuna and Gojo physically. We see that in the fight.
With his CT, he was able to hurt Mahoraga, showing that Dabura has scaling to them. So they don't need to be on their level. In fact, when his light wasn't working, he forgot that he had CQC. He literally said "Do I not have any other way to fight back?"
When it came to physicals, Mahoraga beat his ass.

But then when he amped his durability, the same durability you're now trying to scale to Sukuna and them, he literally shattered his main weapon by blocking.
Same weapon that took a Black Flash from Gojo. He shattered it by blocking. This accelerated movement literally is stronger than a Gojo Black Flash.

This is untrue, the mahoraga that fought Gojo is not comparable to the one Dabura was fighting. Shinjuku Mahoraga is a different key and is superior to his untamed version, so such line of scaling is simple impossible to prove and would only be viable to scale Dabura to 15 f Sukuna. When considering that, there is no problem in scaling a somewhat "amped" Dabura to 20 f Sukuna, there is no contradiction.

KingTempest · Mar 8, 2026

ElJoaki5 said:
As was shown with Curse Naoya, it is necessary to have high enough durability to sustain high speeds.
But most importantly, at this point Dabura moves so fast that the air behaves more like a solid. Under such circumstances moving would be like smashing into the air, so his durability would have to scale.

Needing high enough durability to sustain high speeds ≠ Needing equal durability to your attack potency to sustain high speeds.
Also, behaves more like a solid is referencing how hard it is for him to cut through the air cause it's pushing against him, not that he's running through a bunch of invisible walls.

ElJoaki5 said:
I wouldn’t say he has a base form of any kind, the change in his durability and fighting was not caused by some kind of upgrade, what changed in him was instead his resolve. When he became determined to become a warrior is when he shattered Mahoraga's sword and increased his durability, not when he used his technique on himself as that was later. Such a thing would not represent a different key, it would just means he is beginning to fight seriously without subconsciously holding back in a way. This reasoning doesn’t apply, at least to his durability.

It would when we see prior Mahoraga is whooping his ass and then after he shatters Mahoraga's strongest weapon.
There is a clear difference of durability between these 2 moments.

And after that second is when the feat happens. Occam's Razor deduces that this state he showcases when actively amping his "strength" would increase his durability in kind.

ElJoaki5 said:
But most importantly, your comment doesn’t acknowledge the other line of scaling presented in the OP, that being Yuji Itadori. One that is presented after Dabura showcased his relativistic feat.

Yuji is in a completely different location from Dabura. He can not measure Dabura's capabilities whatsoever. The only thing he knows of Dabura is that he's a Sukuna level threat. Yuji's just saying he'll clean up her mess. He's not reliable to say he can scale to this super Dabura when he's not even here to witness him fight.

ElJoaki5 said:
This is untrue, the mahoraga that fought Gojo is not comparable to the one Dabura was fighting. Shinjuku Mahoraga is a different key and is superior to his untamed version, so such line of scaling is simple impossible to prove and would only be viable to scale Dabura to 15 f Sukuna. When considering that, there is no problem in scaling a somewhat "amped" Dabura to 20 f Sukuna, there is no contradiction.

This is a good point.
Scrap this then.

Rodriiogo · Mar 8, 2026

Alright got permission from @AbaddonTheDisappointment

GodEarh206 said:
Yes, that's exactly right. Dabura himself pushed himself to the limit and fought seriously to achieve the "Near-Light" speed and KE that you calculated.

His limit was light-speed. Nothing says Dabura could't have, and never accelerated before in his life, in-fact it simply says he has never achieved the speed of light.

Not that he never achieved near light speed. Dabura pushing himself to the limit was him reaching light-speed for the kick which is why his leg ended up charred.

GodEarh206 said:
What the "Narrative" or "Statements" are trying to say is that Dabura's "threat" is on par with Sukuna's from the past, and that only those who "have previously stopped Sukuna" can "fight" him.

This still means they would be physically comparable. The point of the thread is completely unrelated to any fact that Sukuna and Gojo would "win" or that they match those near light speeds. The narrative is still pushing that Dabura's physicals and power is on Sukuna's level, not beyond him.

GodEarh206 said:
And as I mentioned above, the "Near-Light Speed" ability, something humanity has never witnessed when he uses it, only proves that they have little (or no) information about Dabura's true capabilities; it seems they judge him by his Cursed Energy output? But overall, the "Sukuna Threat Level" isn't enough to scale Dabura's KE to Satoru or Sukuna himself.

1. Even if you were right and they do judge him on cursed energy output, that'd still not matter. Dabura scales to his own energy output physically as Mahoraga started harming Dabura's physicals:

and even after chapter 19 (where Dabura actually starts fighting properly) we see that Mahoraga was still keeping up and not getting completely destroyed as they kept fighting off-screen:

So regardless, Dabura's energy output scales comparable to his durability (this should be obvious even lol) and therefore Sukuna level output would still scale to the durability calculation in the OP. You just got to the same conclusion with extra steps.

2. Even after chapter 19 (the kick happened), Yuji still thinks he could handle Dabura saying he would handle Dabura if Yuka (Mahoraga) loses. And Yuji is someone that has been able to analyze and compare the strength of people since Shibuya (even earlier if we are being honest but the shibuya example is the best I could find).

Nothing changed after the kick on Yuji being their only chance against Dabura as the OP says.
Saying someone like Yuji who is analytical on a person's power since early in the original series now for some reason thinks he can take someone that just did something way stronger than him is absurd. (Mind you, now that the final chapter is out, he mentions Dabura again and he does not take back what he said about him handling it) Alongside a confirmation that the fight between Dabura and Mahoraga was fully recorded just like the Gojo VS Sukuna fight and the Mahoraga fighting Dabura is treated as the same Mahoraga that fought Gojo in Shinjuku. Which would be weird to point out if Mahoraga was actually a bunch of times stronger than Gojo Satoru and the previous Mahoraga.

The narrative does indeed never shift of Sukuna ~ Dabura, before and after the LS kick.

Damage3245 said:
Sukuna and Dabura are not comparable to each other in terms of speed. I don't know why they'd necessarily be comparable to each other in other specific statistics like durability. Being the same "threat level" is vague.

First off, speed is something the thread never claimed, second off you are acting like the claim of "threat level is done by just random people in the story. As the thread says:

ElJoaki5 said:
Sukuna has a clear scaling to Dabura since Dabura is stated to be a Sukuna level threat multiple times. These are valid statements since the modulo promotional videos reveal that both Tengen/The Narrator and Yuji confirm this statement of them being equal.

Both Yuji and Tengen are two people that not only saw Sukuna and but one of them literally fought him and the other is a a literally immortal narrator that is always seeing stuff within the jujutsu world. The fact you think them saying he's sukuna level means anything other than... he's Sukuna level is weird.

KingTempest said:
So I disagree here.

Usually we scale with Newton's Third Law when you do something like hit something strong enough to withstand your damage or at the very least in the wide margin of error around it. This is why usually we scale when people hit people. Scaling whole body kinetic energy is a ball of whack.
But Dabura's body is already so strong that even if he didn't accelerate he would be able to run through buildings already. Plus running through buildings isn't really impressive, it's just running through decently spaced out walls. A bunch of repeated 9-C to 9-B feats in that regard.
This is akin to like, a regular human running at top speed through cardboard. You don't need 10-A durability to sprint through cardboard.

This is shown that his body isn't usually supposed to handle this cause like, his body was smoking and bleeding just... turning the move on.

The other CGMs can attest, but I'm not a fan of this line of logic. But it'd be weird to be like, High 7-C dura and 7-A AP, so I don't care too much to argue it, I just don't believe it's accurate

Well I think this is the case here because even if the OP hadn't directly said it like this, the story does indeed note that SPEED is what rips you apart in JJK. Dabura's situation is actually simillar to Naoya's where he couldn't handle high speeds normally as his low durability would literally cause his own speed to rip him apart.

At high speeds the forces acting on your body increase dramatically, if the structural strength of your body isn’t high enough to handle those forces, your body would literally tear/rip itself apart. And the air itself is solid by the speed Dabura is accelerating. He would be smashing against air itself so it is indeed fair here I think.

KingTempest said:
I'm not a fan of scaling to Dabura's strongest move.
Half the things that Dabura did in the fight against Mahoraga, this was his first time doing. Including this. Like when he made Darkness with CT reversal, they didn't know he could do that. Same with Domain Expansion.
In the context of these statements, they measure him by his base capabilities alone. They say their statements just on the visible showings of his presence, not even him fighting.
He's a Sukuna level threat in base.This would be the same if you saw that it says he's a Sukuna level threat and you choose to scale him to like... Kamino. No. Regular capabilities.

First off, the idea that Dabura never accelerated before is just never stated and is pure headcannon. All that's said is that he never reached light-speed as his body can't handle it. With the exact wording being that he always that he always had said technique but never pushed it as far as to reach light-speed because his body couldn't handle it.

Second off, that's why promo materials were also used with both Yuji and Tengen to back off the fact that he is indeed Sukuna level. They are knowledgeable people and as I've showed before, Yuji is someone that can determine someone's strength without them even throwing a single attack since Shibuya. There's no reason to assume they are wrong if the entire narrative is pushing towards it.

I don't get the example with Kashimo at all by the way, elaborate.

KingTempest said:
Tengenarrator's statement is fine, so if you wanna scale Dabura to Sukuna, then use that and that alone, because the other ones suck.

I don't understand how Yuji's and clear intentions of the author "suck" by the way.

KingTempest said:
Those other ones don't say that Dabura is a Sukuna level threat.
They say that the invasion of the Simurians is a Sukuna level threat.
It's just the fact that they have him is a big part as to why. And at that moment, they didn't even know they had him.
Also, we see that this generation probably has the worst understanding of Sukuna's strength... ever.
Like the way they word it, if we didn't get the JJK manga, you'd look at it and think
"Sukuna is so strong that he can form random craters by doing nothing. Gojo, Yuji, and some more are the ones who defeated him."
I know they have video, but they don't truly know how strong he is.
Like look at the lore they have regarding Yuta.
"Sukuna's responsible for the scar on Yuta's forehead." No he is not.
They're just loud and ignorant.
This is just a personal gripe though. I'm fine with scaling to Dabura. Just... don't use these scans for proof.

Read the scan as to who says he is a Sukuna level threat. The ones that said he is a Sukuna level threat is the Inspector General aka the Jujutsu higher ups. They'd know what Sukuna level is, and it's very likely they also know about Dabura since the aliens actually stayed in America for a while before Modulo even started and the Aliens went to Japan, this is blatantly told to us alongside the fact that they had no idea of it because the Americans kept it hidden from the Japanese government:

The Jujutsu Higher Ups already knew about the aliens in America ahead of the Japanese government which is why they had already determined it being a Sukuna level threat before the aliens even arrived in Japan. And as I said, unless you think Dabura never was in meetings with the USA aswell or never even was capted ONCE by anyone the entire time they were in the USA, they'd already know about Dabura, only the Japanese government didn't.

KingTempest said:
Scaling is contradicted by scaling amped Dabura to Sukuna too.
Cause Mahoraga is equal to Sukuna and Gojo physically. We see that in the fight.
With his CT, he was able to hurt Mahoraga, showing that Dabura has scaling to them. So they don't need to be on their level. In fact, when his light wasn't working, he forgot that he had CQC. He literally said "Do I not have any other way to fight back?"
When it came to physicals, Mahoraga beat his ass.
But then when he amped his durability, the same durability you're now trying to scale to Sukuna and them, he literally shattered his main weapon by blocking.
Same weapon that took a Black Flash from Gojo. He shattered it by blocking. This accelerated movement literally is stronger than a Gojo Black Flash.

You are comparing Yuka's Untamed Mahoraga to Sukuna's Tamed Mahoraga who'd not only be stronger by default but we see that Sukuna's shadows are already stronger by default when compared to someone like Megumi's (who should be superior to Yuka in the usage of ten shadows or at least comparable if you really wanna push it)
You are severely misunderstanding how Mahoraga's adaptation works. Mahoraga was already extremely adapted to Gojo's physicals attacks because of the beating Sukuna took when he had the wheel on him. We see that a A SINGLE BLACK FLASH from Gojo is able to make Sukuna literally pass out. This is a Sukuna who has higher durability/endurance than Mahoraga even at the end of fight when he himself (Sukuna) is even weaker than before and Mahoraga is even further adapted, Mahoraga still got completely vaporized by Hollow Purple while Sukuna survived it. Mahoraga works by adaptation to the attacks he has endured before. He could have adapted to something Sukuna would be unable to take but then get vaporized by something Sukuna takes without dying.
Dabura does not increase his durability. He is simply actually fighting properly now. Dabura has been fighting without a motive, he never wanted or had to fight so he was never truly a warrior. The scene is meant to show that Dabura has fully realised why he must fight, he will now, as he says "fight as I should have". He is actually fighting properly and not as he's been doing, as you even claimed he even forgot he has CQC before that.
I already explained WHY a black flash tanking from the sword does not mean anything, but let me clarify that the reason he is able to shatter a sword is because he is putting enough energy in his hand to do that. Something that even Sukuna can do to survive a hollow purple with over 120% the output of regular purple without getting defeated immediately as he enhanced his arms with cursed energy. Despite this for Sukuna we see him take a beating from Gojo same way Dabura took from Mahoraga multiple times. He was able to do this by controlling his cursed energy to a singular spot to do that. This is very much normal and doesn't contradict anything. (Another examples are obvious like how Todo was able to take a black flash from Mahito and Sukuna via just outputting cursed energy where they hit him)

Damage3245 · Mar 8, 2026

Rodriiogo said:
First off, speech is something the thread never claimed, second off you are acting like the claim of "threat level is done by just random people in the story. As the thread says:

I never said the OP was claiming they were equal in speed. I was pointing out how they have different statistics in one area, so it's not out of the question they'd have different statistics in other areas.

Rodriiogo · Mar 8, 2026

Damage3245 said:
I never said the OP was claiming they were equal in speed. I was pointing out how they have different statistics in one area, so it's not out of the question they'd have different statistics in other areas.

The difference here is that, the speed being unequal comes from dabura amping himself further than he was. It's kinda like how Fuga > Gojo but that doesn't mean Sukuna isn't ~(comparable)~ Gojo. His speed is comparable normally and becomes superior IF he amps himself with his CT that Sukuna and Gojo don't have, his AP is comparable normally (as in their regular attacks/punches), and only turns into a big "???" with light-speed kick as we don't know the comparission between it and Gojo and Sukuna's Hollow Purple and Fuga because we don't have any full on statement between them. However his durability is something that never, never changes. So it starts as Sukuna level, and ends as Sukuna level, therefore they are comparable in that regard even during the acceleration. That's the main point of scaling here.

Buraqibear · Mar 9, 2026

Permission granted by @AbaddonTheDisappointment

There might be another way to scale the God tiers to Dabura's kick.

A small piece of Mahoraga, along with Mahoraga's wheel survived Dabura's kick, as seen here. The wheel also doesn't seem to have taken any serious damage to it's form. But Gojo's Hollow Purple completely destroyed Mahoraga and it's wheel, while Sukuna who was about as far away from Purple as Mahoraga was, if not closer to it when it exploded, not to mention Sukuna's body would've tanked greater energy than the wheel due to having a bigger CSA. After this, Sukuna was heavily injured but he still went on to fight Kashimo, a high tier and survived hits from him. The Sukuna that tanked Purple was already pretty weakened from the fight. This should be decent support for scaling Sukuna and Gojo and in extension, Yuji to or a bit below Dabura's kick as Sukuna survived a stronger attack. (The wheel scaling is already accepted for scaling Purple to Fuga)

Additionally, while only Dabura's leg was destroyed from his kick, Mahoraga's entire body was destroyed, showing that Dabura (who is as strong as Sukuna physically as Rodriiogo said) was still a bit stronger than that Mahoraga, while against Gojo, Sukuna's Mahoraga could tank a black flash from Gojo and was relatively fine but got completely vaporized by Purple.

Damage3245 · Mar 9, 2026

Buraqibear said:
A small piece of Mahoraga, along with Mahoraga's wheel survived Dabura's kick, as seen here.

That doesn't work because Mahoraga already started adapting to Dabura's near-lightspeed physical attacks on the first page here. Which is why Dabura remarked on him adapting to simple brute force. If Dabura hadn't clipped Mahoraga in the first page and given him the chance to adapt, it's possible he could've entirely destroyed Mahoraga with his kick.

OjeTheArcher15 · Mar 9, 2026

Got permission to speak by @AbaddonTheDisappointment
The argument that Dabura increases his Durability when going relativistic speeds lacks any basis

This was stated nowhere nor does an AP increase necessarily mean a dura increase
Speedsters in jjk don't increase their durability, example is naoya who need a binding vow to increase his because his CT doesn't give him that ability

Dabura is the same being that although his top speed is theoretically lightspeed he can't reach it because his durability doesn't increase if not he would be able to move at light speed because his durability would increase till he can take it

Qurbonboev · Mar 9, 2026

Permission is granted by @AbaddonTheDisappointment

KingTempest said:
But Dabura's body is already so strong that even if he didn't accelerate he would be able to run through buildings already. Plus running through buildings isn't really impressive, it's just running through decently spaced out walls. A bunch of repeated 9-C to 9-B feats in that regard.
This is akin to like, a regular human running at top speed through cardboard. You don't need 10-A durability to sprint through cardboard.

What do you think gonna happen with regular human if he sprints with supersonic speeds through cardboard?(Asking about hypersonic speeds is redundant, since at such speed even just going through remotely dense atmosphere would vaporise human before they even reach cardboard).

From Dabura frame of reference, when he goes through building at 0.9c, he sees building smashing through him at 0.9c. Heck, at such speeds even 1 m^3 of air has comparable kinetic energy to Tsar Bomba.
He needs to have durability comparable to his KE to survive this

Epyriel · Mar 9, 2026

Permission granted by @AbaddonTheDisappointment

ElJoaki5 said:
Why KE is valid
Due to the realistic portrayal of Relativistic speed effects and Kinetic Energy in Modulo and the stated relation between power, mass and speed, it should be fine to apply the Kinetic Energy formula to this case.

"Speed can be used to find KE when a verse consistently treats speed, and its relation to attack potency, in a realistic manner. Calculating kinetic energy from a character's speed isn't problematic, if it's clear that the story they're from doesn't separate speed from one's general capacity for destruction."

While some may consider this to not be valid due to the damage caused by Dabura's kick not being that high. The intent of the series to realistically portray the relation between energy and speed is more relevant.

This part was already accepted by a CGM so it shouldn’t be much of a discussion.

I disagree with the usability of KE here.

Just because a series acknowledges the correlation between speed and energy, should in no way take priority over this rule:

Speed cannot be used to find KE when

There is a destruction/AP calculation contradicting a kinetic energy calculation. The destruction/AP calculation would take priority over the kinetic energy calculation in this case as the AP calculation would be a better proof in regards to how much damage he/she is capable of in an attack.

Don’t you think sheer scale should be included in the qualification that “Speed can be used to find KE when a verse consistently treats speed, and its relation to attack potency, in a realistic manner” ?

And it is not like it is a minor forgivable difference between the estimated KE and the actual depicted DC.

It is a difference of four orders of magnitude. A ~10,000x difference. On the low end.

Actually worse than that, since you are arguing that his ~93 kiloton kick was actually done at a meaningfully faster speed than his ~980,000 - 3,300,000 kiloton KE running speed.

ElJoaki5 said:
Why Durability is valid
This is actually quite simple. While Dabura was running at this speed he ran through a ton of buildings without taking any damage, which would make his durability scale to his running kinetic energy. In addition to this he also needs to withstand the speed caused by his technique when using it.

Qurbonboev said:
Permission is granted by @AbaddonTheDisappointment

What do you think gonna happen with regular human if he sprints with supersonic speeds through cardboard?(Asking about hypersonic speeds is redundant, since at such speed even just going through remotely dense atmosphere would vaporise human before they even reach cardboard).

From Dabura frame of reference, when he goes through building at 0.9c, he sees building smashing through him at 0.9c. Heck, at such speeds even 1 m^3 of air has comparable kinetic energy to Tsar Bomba.
He needs to have durability comparable to his KE to survive this

I also agree with KT on this point; I think this argument for Dabura’s durability scaling is a bit weak.

Dabura doesn’t notably slow down when going through the buildings - it is rather far from a hard stop collision.

This means only a tiny fraction of his KE is required to smash through these buildings, and consequently only a tiny fraction of this energy is actually being reflected back at him via Newton’s Third Law.

His durability isn’t being contested by his kinetic energy, but rather by the kinetic energy differential: ΔKE = 0.5m(vᵢ² - vբ²).

M3X_2.0 · Mar 9, 2026

KE is definitely valid here, come on now.

M3X_2.0 · Mar 9, 2026

I’d also ask thread mods to stop giving regular users permissions to comment on a staff only thread like this one.

If you give anyone permission to comment, it defeats the purpose of staff only threads.

We don’t need regular users saying the same, wrong thing over and over again.

As for the KE validation: The destruction calc is extremely unreliable because it involves multiple assumptions such as diameter of the area destroyed, hollowness of tens of different buildings and destruction methods. I evaluated the blog some days ago and only accepted the KE method, so arguments about the difference in energy values between destruction and KE aren’t even correct.

The manga supports kinetic energy since the Naoya fight, the whole Dabura scene and gimmick is how kinetic energy affects his body and Gege consistently tries to, and is successful at using physics in his manga.

This is not my opinion but my evaluation, KE is valid, what they want to do with it scaling wise is a whole different story, though, and I hope we don’t waste time discussing this again.

Epyriel · Mar 9, 2026

Permission granted by @Antvasima

M3X_2.0 said:
As for the KE validation: The destruction calc is extremely unreliable because it involves multiple assumptions such as diameter of the area destroyed, hollowness of tens of different buildings and destruction methods. I evaluated the blog some days ago and only accepted the KE method, so arguments about the difference in energy values between destruction and KE aren’t even correct.

Even being extremely generous and saying the pixel scaling and spacing assumptions were so wrong to the point it somehow underestimated the yield by half (dubious to say the least), it would still contradict the KE by a factor of 5000.

C’mon now, let’s be realistic. There is no way you are possibly getting that explosion anywhere remotely near Mountain level without some imaginative leaps in assumptions of truly absurd proportions.

Trying to hand-wave a 4 orders of magnitude difference by pointing to quibbles in destruction calc assumptions is the equivalent of trying to hand-wave away the difference between a hand grenade and a MOAB to margin of error. It is simply not going to cut it, even under the most extremely favourable of assumptions.

And that is before you even account for the fact that the speed used to find the KE is literally just an arbitrary number pulled out of a hat and is far more likely to be off by a far larger margin.

M3X_2.0 said:
The manga supports kinetic energy since the Naoya fight, the whole Dabura scene and gimmick is how kinetic energy affects his body and Gege consistently tries to, and is successful at using physics in his manga.

And why exactly is that supposed to give leave to simply ignore the kinetic energy rules?

Scenarios exactly like this are very specifically and explicitly prohibited.

Also getting the yield wrong by a million percent is quite the generous interpretation of “Gege consistently tries to, and is successful at using physics in his manga”.

M3X_2.0 said:
This is not my opinion but my evaluation, KE is valid, what they want to do with it scaling wise is a whole different story, though, and I hope we don’t waste time discussing this again.

Can table this discussion for a CGM thread if you prefer, to avoid getting in the way of the related in-verse scaling discussions.

BiggestOpp · Mar 9, 2026

Permission’s granted by ATD.

In order to save time and keep my segment as concise as possible I’m not going to quote any particular arguments but instead list down my reasoning for disagreeing with some of the arguments presented in the thread.

KT brought up an argument against Dabura scaling to his KE and I just want to double down on that line of thinking since there hasn’t been a proper rebuttal to it.

The only way Dabura’s durability would be able to scale to his KE via Newton’s bs is if he were to impact something that can actually withstand his force and cause him to decelerate immediately/quickly. Using a wall and a piece of cardboard as example.

When you punch a wall your hand instantly decelerates and all of the force is directly transferred back to your hand.

When you punch a piece of cardboard your fist flows right through it so the amount of force you’re enduring is almost 0 because you flow right through it.

I probably butchered this and I’m lowk a dumbass but you get the point.

Like KT said, he’s flying through the building like they’re made of paper. The force being applied back to him is not comparable to the total force of his body, otherwise he would have stopped dead in his tracks.

“The narrative implies-“ it doesn’t matter.

In case Dabura scaling to his KE is agreed upon, there’s another issue that has to be addressed. The idea of scaling others to that version of Dabura.

Most of the narrative arguments putting Sukuna on the level of Dabura is in reference to Dabura before his fight with Maho. This is important because there’s a legitimate argument for Dabura growing stronger in this fight.

After Maho adapted to Dabura we can see that it’s capable of harming him with his attacks, and even overpowers him during some scenes.

Dabura has an internal monologue about never being pushed so far before and decided to push himself to the absolute limit. Dabura now isn’t the same as the Dabura that everyone was ******** bricks over and comparing to Sukuna. He’s stronger than that version.

This is even more evident as he completely obliterates Maho’s arm while using his Light speed movement, despite Maho being comparable to Dabura in physical stats.

There’s a clear difference between those two instances in terms of power.

This isn’t debatable, it’s clear as day so the question is how far does the narrative arguments go? Are random NPC’s comparing Dabura’s latent potential to Sukuna’s full power? Something that not even Dabura knows he’s capable of?

After reading the description of Dabura’s light speed movement, I think there may be some misinterpretation of what the dialogue is saying. That or I’m a dumbass.

The dialogue says this:

“However Dabura’s physical body could not withstand the acceleration of Light.
So he was never able to move with the speed of light himself.”

This doesn’t state that Dabura couldn’t withstand moving at light speed, it says he couldn’t withstand accelerating up to light speed.

That may seem like the same thing but the usage of words create an entirely different meaning. Moving at LS isn’t what his body couldn’t withstand, it’s accelerating up to LS that his body couldn’t endure.

Assuming otherwise makes the sentence read as

“Dabura’s body couldn’t withstand moving at the speed of light.

So he was never able to move at the speed of light”

Doesn’t make sense. It’ll also be counterintuitive for the narrator to give us this information, have Dabura say he’s pushing his body and speed to the limit, have him reach the speed of light only to destroy his leg anyways?

If they’re saying his body just couldn’t endure light speed, then the sequences make no sense.

I think it’s clear that they’re saying the actual acceleration is what Dabura could never endure and during his fight with Maho he grew strong enough to endure the acceleration and reached the speed of light.

(Narrator also couldn’t have been saying his destroyed leg is the thing he couldn’t endure, Dabura didn’t know RCT and he even says the ability to heal limbs like that is foreign to him and his homeworld. So how would he have know he would lose a limb if he moved at LS if he never tried it? If he do try it he would have permanent damage on his body. It’s just more evidence that it was the actual acceleration that he struggled to endure).

All this just to say that it’s definitive that Dabura did in fact get stronger when he started to perform his light speed movement. Not because the technique increases his strength, but because he, as per his own words, was tapping into his full potential.

Seen someone try to scale off of Maho’s wheel. That’s just a no no you goober. No reason to assume Maho’s wheel doesn’t grow alongside itself. That’s just dumb.

I’m fine with everything else tho.

Qurbonboev · Mar 9, 2026

Permission granted by ADT

Epyriel said:
Even being extremely generous and saying the pixel scaling and spacing assumptions were so wrong to the point it somehow underestimated the yield by half (dubious to say the least), it would still contradict the KE by a factor of 5000.

1. First of all destruction end isn't even accepted. There is no x10000 difference between KE and destruction, when destruction isn't even calced.
2. OG calc assumes pulverisation for some reason. Recalcing it with vaporisation bump value considerably. Yes, I know it's not evaluated yet, but it's self evident that using vaporisation values instead of pulverisation ones would increase results massively. But if you think it's not being evaluated is unforgivable slight for the calc, refer to the point above(og destruction calc isn't evaled too).
3. Sure, even with new calc there is still x90 difference between destruction and KE. So what? Rule of "if destruction calc contradicts KE calc, prefer destruction value" is made for situations like this:
"For example, if a character launches a 200kg metal ball against a common wall at Mach 300, but the wall remains largely undamaged, the energy required to cause the minor damage on the wall would take priority over the kinetic energy derived from speed in this case."
Not for cases where KE gives Mountain level value, and destruction gives City level value. This cite gives some leeway in this regard.
4. I would personally prefer if instead if assuming someone actually did calc speed of Dabura based on relativistic effects he saw

About scaling Durability to KE, we can clearly see that after relativistic kick Dabura stopped himself and then came back down, meaning he nullifyied all his previous KE without major issues.

Epyriel · Mar 9, 2026

Permission granted by @Antvasima

Qurbonboev said:
1. First of all destruction end isn't even accepted. There is no x10000 difference between KE and destruction, when destruction isn't even calced.
2. OG calc assumes pulverisation for some reason. Recalcing it with vaporisation bump value considerably. Yes, I know it's not evaluated yet, but it's self evident that using vaporisation values instead of pulverisation ones would increase results massively. But if you think it's not being evaluated is unforgivable slight for the calc, refer to the point above(og destruction calc isn't evaled too).
3. Sure, even with new calc there is still x90 difference between destruction and KE. So what? Rule of "if destruction calc contradicts KE calc, prefer destruction value" is made for situations like this:
"For example, if a character launches a 200kg metal ball against a common wall at Mach 300, but the wall remains largely undamaged, the energy required to cause the minor damage on the wall would take priority over the kinetic energy derived from speed in this case."
Not for cases where KE gives Mountain level value, and destruction gives City level value. This cite gives some leeway in this regard.

The reason the OG calc assumes pulverization is because that is what you are supposed to assume when an attack produces no visible residue from the destroyed material.

Meanwhile using vaporization requires “there has to be a considerable amount of visible vapor and/or character statements that imply vaporization, usually the latter”. The only thing we see in the aftermath is white coloured dust clouds. No black vapour indicating vaporization.

Yet even if we were to say that vaporization was appropriate to use in this case, an 85x - 292x difference (even before accounting for the difference in speed between the kick and his travel) still violates the same kinetic energy rule.

The rule doesn’t say “prioritize destruction calcs, except when the KE is only hundreds of times higher, then use the highball instead”.

It says “The destruction/AP calculation would take priority over the kinetic energy calculation in this case as the AP calculation would be a better proof in regards to how much damage he/she is capable of in an attack”.

The example on the page is for an intuitive demonstration of the problem, not an exhaustive list on the scope of the rule.

The fact that there is no currently accepted destruction calc doesn’t change the fact that any legitimate calc of said destruction would be multiple orders of magnitude lower than the proposed KE. Trying to skirt the KE rules by pushing through a KE value by blindly pretending the DC doesn’t drastically contradict it is simply poor practice.

M3X_2.0 · Mar 9, 2026

Epyriel said:
Even being extremely generous and saying the pixel scaling and spacing assumptions were so wrong to the point it somehow underestimated the yield by half (dubious to say the least), it would still contradict the KE by a factor of 5000.

C’mon now, let’s be realistic. There is no way you are possibly getting that explosion anywhere remotely near Mountain level without some imaginative leaps in assumptions of truly absurd proportions.

Trying to hand-wave a 4 orders of magnitude difference by pointing to quibbles in destruction calc assumptions is the equivalent of trying to hand-wave away the difference between a hand grenade and a MOAB to margin of error. It is simply not going to cut it, even under the most extremely favourable of assumptions.

And that is before you even account for the fact that the speed used to find the KE is literally just an arbitrary number pulled out of a hat and is far more likely to be off by a far larger margin.

The destruction calc was not accepted, so it literally cannot function as a contradiction under the site's own rule. The rule states 'there is a destruction/AP calculation contradicting a kinetic energy calculation', if the calc wasn't accepted, there is no contradiction to speak of. You're using a rejected calc as if it has standing to overturn an accepted one, which it doesn't.

And your own point about assumptions works against you here. You're acknowledging the destruction calc has significant uncertainties, yet you're treating its result as a reliable enough baseline to establish a 4 orders of magnitude difference with confidence. You can't have it both ways, either the calc is reliable enough to be accepted and used as a contradiction, or it isn't. It wasn't accepted, so it isn't.

As for the speed being 'pulled out of a hat', the site's own standards place 'near lightspeed' statements between 75% and 93% c for KE purposes. That's not arbitrary, that's the established methodology. You're attacking the speed value as if there's no framework behind it when there explicitly is.

Epyriel said:
And why exactly is that supposed to give leave to simply ignore the kinetic energy rules?

Scenarios exactly like this are very specifically and explicitly prohibited.

Also getting the yield wrong by a million percent is quite the generous interpretation of “Gege consistently tries to, and is successful at using physics in his manga”.

The link you posted is exactly the rule I've been addressing, and it doesn't exist in isolation. The full context of the KE rules includes the qualification that KE is valid when 'a verse consistently treats speed, and its relation to attack potency, in a realistic manner' and 'it's clear that the story doesn't separate speed from one's general capacity for destruction.' You can't selectively cite one part of the ruleset while ignoring the part that directly applies to this situation.

JJK meets that qualification. The Naoya fight alone is enough, sonic booms, Mach cones, environmental destruction from shockwaves, glass shattering from proximity. He himself states that mass and speed equals to power. Gege isn't a author who treats speed as a number that exists independently from physical consequences. The Dabura scene follows the exact same logic. His whole gimmick is kinetic energy interacting with his body realistically.

Epyriel said:
Can table this discussion for a CGM thread if you prefer, to avoid getting in the way of the related in-verse scaling discussions.

Sure, feel free to open a CGM thread whenever you can actually post in one.

Rodriiogo · Mar 9, 2026

(This isn't to anyone directly but people should really read the entire thread before talking, people still haven't even udnerstood the OP alone lol)

BiggestOpp said:
KT brought up an argument against Dabura scaling to his KE and I just want to double down on that line of thinking since there hasn’t been a proper rebuttal to it.

The only way Dabura’s durability would be able to scale to his KE via Newton’s bs is if he were to impact something that can actually withstand his force and cause him to decelerate immediately/quickly. Using a wall and a piece of cardboard as example.

When you punch a wall your hand instantly decelerates and all of the force is directly transferred back to your hand.

When you punch a piece of cardboard your fist flows right through it so the amount of force you’re enduring is almost 0 because you flow right through it.

I probably butchered this and I’m lowk a dumbass but you get the point.

Like KT said, he’s flying through the building like they’re made of paper. The force being applied back to him is not comparable to the total force of his body, otherwise he would have stopped dead in his tracks.

Newton’s Third Law:

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

I don't know why this keeps getting ignored but,
At Near light-speeds, air molecules can’t move out of the way fast enough, so the character effectively runs into a dense wall of compressed gas as it was a solid. This is not just physics but something the narrator and Dabura himself notes:

Dabura notes that the air is indeed taking a toll on his body saying that it is becoming "heavy" and "hot" which would mean making he is indeed having to withstand the energy itself otherwise he'd be mist by now. There's also the fact that in the same exact scene, Dabura jumps and positions himself for a kick which would also just make the point even clearer, he is able to maneuver and redirect himself at those speeds so his body does indeed need to withstand the force otherwise, again, he'd be mist. There's also the fact that... you know... Dabura's entire body didn't just explode upon kicking even tho his speed had to go from the Near SOL to basically 0 there and had to have been knocked away by the same force he just kicked via newton's third law.

I don't understand why this is even being debated. Dabura does need to withstand his own force. This is a non-argument that I've never seen being done before other than here a character having such an obvious KE feat and not physically scaling to it.

BiggestOpp said:
“The narrative implies-“ it doesn’t matter.

In case Dabura scaling to his KE is agreed upon, there’s another issue that has to be addressed. The idea of scaling others to that version of Dabura.

Most of the narrative arguments putting Sukuna on the level of Dabura is in reference to Dabura before his fight with Maho. This is important because there’s a legitimate argument for Dabura growing stronger in this fight.

After Maho adapted to Dabura we can see that it’s capable of harming him with his attacks, and even overpowers him during some scenes.

Dabura has an internal monologue about never being pushed so far before and decided to push himself to the absolute limit. Dabura now isn’t the same as the Dabura that everyone was ******** bricks over and comparing to Sukuna. He’s stronger than that version.

This is even more evident as he completely obliterates Maho’s arm while using his Light speed movement, despite Maho being comparable to Dabura in physical stats.

There’s a clear difference between those two instances in terms of power.

This isn’t debatable, it’s clear as day so the question is how far does the narrative arguments go? Are random NPC’s comparing Dabura’s latent potential to Sukuna’s full power? Something that not even Dabura knows he’s capable of?

I already answered alot of those points so let me just clarify it to you again:

Most of the narrative arguments putting Sukuna on the level of Dabura is in reference to Dabura before his fight with Maho. This is important because there’s a legitimate argument for Dabura growing stronger in this fight.

I love how you said most cause you know it's not all, eitherway:

ElJoaki5 said:
These are valid statements since the modulo promotional videos reveal that both Tengen/The Narrator and Yuji confirm this statement of them being equal.

Rodriiogo said:
Even after chapter 19 (the kick happened), Yuji still thinks he could handle Dabura saying he would handle Dabura if Yuka (Mahoraga) loses. And Yuji is someone that has been able to analyze and compare the strength of people since Shibuya (even earlier if we are being honest but the shibuya example is the best I could find).

Nothing changed after the kick on Yuji being their only chance against Dabura as the OP says.
Saying someone like Yuji who is analytical on a person's power since early in the original series now for some reason thinks he can take someone that just did something way stronger than him is absurd. (Mind you, now that the final chapter is out, he mentions Dabura again and he does not take back what he said about him handling it) Alongside a confirmation that the fight between Dabura and Mahoraga was fully recorded just like the Gojo VS Sukuna fight and the Mahoraga fighting Dabura is treated as the same Mahoraga that fought Gojo in Shinjuku. Which would be weird to point out if Mahoraga was actually a bunch of times stronger than Gojo Satoru and the previous Mahoraga.

The narrative does indeed never shift of Sukuna ~ Dabura, before and after the LS kick.

This is even more evident as he completely obliterates Maho’s arm while using his Light speed movement, despite Maho being comparable to Dabura in physical stats.

Rodriiogo said:
You are severely misunderstanding how Mahoraga's adaptation works. Mahoraga was already extremely adapted to Gojo's physicals attacks because of the beating Sukuna took when he had the wheel on him. We see that a A SINGLE BLACK FLASH from Gojo is able to make Sukuna literally pass out. This is a Sukuna who has higher durability/endurance than Mahoraga even at the end of fight when he himself (Sukuna) is even weaker than before and Mahoraga is even further adapted, Mahoraga still got completely vaporized by Hollow Purple while Sukuna survived it. Mahoraga works by adaptation to the attacks he has endured before. He could have adapted to something Sukuna would be unable to take but then get vaporized by something Sukuna takes without dying. He is able to shatter a sword is because he is putting enough energy in his hand to do that. Something that even Sukuna can do to survive a hollow purple with over 120% the output of regular purple without getting defeated immediately as he enhanced his arms with cursed energy. Despite this for Sukuna we see him take a beating from Gojo same way Dabura took from Mahoraga multiple times. He was able to do this by controlling his cursed energy to a singular spot to do that. This is very much normal and doesn't contradict anything. (Another examples are obvious like how Todo was able to take a black flash from Mahito and Sukuna via just outputting cursed energy where they hit him)

Rodriiogo said:
even after chapter 19 (where Dabura actually starts fighting properly) we see that Mahoraga was still keeping up and not getting completely destroyed as they kept fighting off-screen:

Are random NPC’s comparing Dabura’s latent potential to Sukuna’s full power? Something that not even Dabura knows he’s capable of?

I can't believe you called Tengen and Yuji NPCs lol. And please don't ignore the rest of the narrative points of the OP, but to call it NPCs even to the people that said he is Sukuna level to begin with is disingeneous aswell:

Rodriiogo said:
Read the scan as to who says he is a Sukuna level threat. The ones that said he is a Sukuna level threat is the Inspector General aka the Jujutsu higher ups. They'd know what Sukuna level is, and it's very likely they also know about Dabura since the aliens actually stayed in America for a while before Modulo even started and the Aliens went to Japan, this is blatantly told to us alongside the fact that they had no idea of it because the Americans kept it hidden from the Japanese government:

The Jujutsu Higher Ups already knew about the aliens in America ahead of the Japanese government which is why they had already determined it being a Sukuna level threat before the aliens even arrived in Japan. And as I said, unless you think Dabura never was in meetings with the USA aswell or never even was capted ONCE by anyone the entire time they were in the USA, they'd already know about Dabura, only the Japanese government didn't.

And to answer this point in specific better:

Dabura has an internal monologue about never being pushed so far before and decided to push himself to the absolute limit. Dabura now isn’t the same as the Dabura that everyone was ******** bricks over and comparing to Sukuna. He’s stronger than that version.

There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE of this??? Dabura was saying that because he never truly fought before, Dabura already had the strength of a warrior but he was not a warrior because he has never actually fought before as no one has ever pushed him to actually fight. That's the entirety of his character and the point of him saying he's gonna "fight properly" now.

That isn't telling you "Look Dabura is getting stronger!". It's simply that Dabura is finally having a real fight, he finally gained his own resolve. He is gonna achieve his warriorhood. Not by "getting stronger" as that was something he already had but finally not only the will but also the need to fight. This isn't a boost in strength and you're just headcanoning that it is one.

This is indeed not debatable as you said. There was no growth in Dabura's durability/raw physicals.

BiggestOpp said:
After reading the description of Dabura’s light speed movement, I think there may be some misinterpretation of what the dialogue is saying. That or I’m a dumbass.

The dialogue says this:

“However Dabura’s physical body could not withstand the acceleration of Light.
So he was never able to move with the speed of light himself.”

This doesn’t state that Dabura couldn’t withstand moving at light speed, it says he couldn’t withstand accelerating up to light speed.

That may seem like the same thing but the usage of words create an entirely different meaning. Moving at LS isn’t what his body couldn’t withstand, it’s accelerating up to LS that his body couldn’t endure.

Those mean the same exact thing, you're reaching the same conclusion that the only "cap" for Dabura's durability that he has never achieved before was truly reaching light-speed, he had no issues simply accelearating to near light from what we see, the "pushing himself to the limits" comes from him REACHING light-speed. It's why he says "More...!! More...!! Keep going!! Reach the light!!!" Dabura despite his CT that he always had, had never accelerated to light-speed.

BiggestOpp said:
Doesn’t make sense. It’ll also be counterintuitive for the narrator to give us this information, have Dabura say he’s pushing his body and speed to the limit, have him reach the speed of light only to destroy his leg anyways?

If they’re saying his body just couldn’t endure light speed, then the sequences make no sense.

I think it’s clear that they’re saying the actual acceleration is what Dabura could never endure and during his fight with Maho he grew strong enough to endure the acceleration and reached the speed of light.

...No? I'm sorry what do you even mean? And what is this leap in logic for it meaning he couldn't endure the acceleration? Dabura RIGHT before the limits thing you keep mentioning says he will literally pummel him to death until his own hands "crumble and wither away" and then decides to go for Light-Speed.

Dabura is not increasing his durability, and has never increased his durability throughout the fight.

BiggestOpp said:
(Narrator also couldn’t have been saying his destroyed leg is the thing he couldn’t endure, Dabura didn’t know RCT and he even says the ability to heal limbs like that is foreign to him and his homeworld. So how would he have know he would lose a limb if he moved at LS if he never tried it? If he do try it he would have permanent damage on his body. It’s just more evidence that it was the actual acceleration that he struggled to endure)

The point is that Dabura has accelerated before but he has never reached light-speed because his body would start struggling right before that so he would stop before he literally kills himself, the same way Dabura started getting scared, and probably even thought of stopping because it was already too heavy and too hot but since he was motivated due to his new mentality, he goes for it regardless and reaches said light-speed, which made his leg (what moved at light-speed) get charred, as he could never handle that speed.

BiggestOpp said:
All this just to say that it’s definitive that Dabura did in fact get stronger when he started to perform his light speed movement. Not because the technique increases his strength, but because he, as per his own words, was tapping into his full potential.

Again that was to reach light-speed for the kick. Dabura will ignore his limitations of being unable to withstand light-speed and just go for it this time which is why his leg got charred. You are misunderstanding the point.
Dabura is going to his limits to reach the warriors. He knows going light-speed is beyond what he can do but he will do it because "What does... that matter!! Reach them!!" (Parallel to reaching the light as right in the page before)

I don't know why this keeps being pushed as a buff for Dabura's physicals when it's just a development in his mental state and truly starting to enjoy fighting, becoming a warrior by reaching said warriorhood instead of what he's always been, reborning into his new self.

Genuinely give me one valid reason why Dabura got stronger/more durable without head-canon or misunderstanding how Mahoraga works.

Epyriel · Mar 9, 2026

Permission granted by @Antvasima

M3X_2.0 said:
The destruction calc was not accepted, so it literally cannot function as a contradiction under the site's own rule. The rule states 'there is a destruction/AP calculation contradicting a kinetic energy calculation', if the calc wasn't accepted, there is no contradiction to speak of. You're using a rejected calc as if it has standing to overturn an accepted one, which it doesn't.

Putting aside the fact that not evaluated ≠ rejected, I decided to scrutinize the calc myself and noticed a zero got dropped for the reinforced concrete calculation, so the final result should actually be a bit higher (about 151 kilotons). Which puts the difference of the KE values at 6523x - 21921x (without accounting for any speed difference between his travel and his kick).

But the main issue is this: trying to skirt the KE rules by blindly pretending the DC of a feat doesn’t blatantly contradict a proposed KE value simply because there isn’t a currently accepted calc for said DC is poor practice.

If I asked you to just straight up eyeball the destruction of this explosion, even just very roughly, can you honestly tell me you would give me a value anywhere near what the proposed KE values are claiming?

Whether or not we have an accepted calc doesn’t change what is blatantly shown on the page.

M3X_2.0 said:
And your own point about assumptions works against you here. You're acknowledging the destruction calc has significant uncertainties, yet you're treating its result as a reliable enough baseline to establish a 4 orders of magnitude difference with confidence. You can't have it both ways, either the calc is reliable enough to be accepted and used as a contradiction, or it isn't. It wasn't accepted, so it isn't.

As I believe I already made clear, the reasonable uncertainty margins in the destruction are truly incomparable next to the gargantuan gap to the KE value you are trying to make them account for.

M3X_2.0 said:
As for the speed being 'pulled out of a hat', the site's own standards place 'near lightspeed' statements between 75% and 93% c for KE purposes. That's not arbitrary, that's the established methodology. You're attacking the speed value as if there's no framework behind it when there explicitly is.

It is arbitrary. You are literally citing a thread where various users are just throwing out specific numbers to fit a vague statement based on little more than vibes, with many of the proposed numbers having large differences between them in terms of their associated KE yields. If you want to talk about “significant uncertainties” this would be the prime place to begin. Even just the final accepted range (let alone all the other numbers that got tossed around) sways the KE by over 300%, a vastly larger error margin than something like pixel scaling uncertainties or spacing assumptions are likely to entail even cumulatively.

M3X_2.0 said:
The link you posted is exactly the rule I've been addressing, and it doesn't exist in isolation. The full context of the KE rules includes the qualification that KE is valid when 'a verse consistently treats speed, and its relation to attack potency, in a realistic manner' and 'it's clear that the story doesn't separate speed from one's general capacity for destruction.' You can't selectively cite one part of the ruleset while ignoring the part that directly applies to this situation.

JJK meets that qualification. The Naoya fight alone is enough, sonic booms, Mach cones, environmental destruction from shockwaves, glass shattering from proximity. He himself states that mass and speed equals to power. Gege isn't a author who treats speed as a number that exists independently from physical consequences. The Dabura scene follows the exact same logic. His whole gimmick is kinetic energy interacting with his body realistically.

‘Selectively citing one part of the ruleset while ignoring the part that directly applies to this situation’ is exactly what you are doing.

There is a reason we have both a section for qualifying criteria for using KE and a section for disqualifying criteria for using KE.

If meeting a qualifying criterion for using KE superseded all other concerns, there would literally be zero point to having disqualifying criteria at all - since either you would meet a qualifying criterion or you wouldn’t.

Meeting a qualifying criterion for using KE is a prerequisite for using KE, not a pass. The whole reason we have disqualifying criteria is specifically to catch cases where KE is unusable despite meeting one of the above prerequisites.

Edit to avoid needing to make an entirely new post:

ElJoaki5 said:
I'd just like to point out to you that the reason 0.93 c is used isn’t because of that thread but rather because of the five paragraphs of the op that explain why this speed is used which you don’t seem to have checked..

I’m aware of your reasoning for it. “Accepted range” refers to your calc.

To emphasize again: the narrative assumptions here about what exact speed he reached accounts for a far larger margin of error than pixel scaling or spacing assumptions are ever likely to reach.

ElJoaki5 · Mar 9, 2026

Epyriel said:
It is arbitrary. You are literally citing a thread where various users are just throwing out specific numbers to fit a vague statement based on little more than vibes, with many of the proposed numbers having large differences between them in terms of their associated KE yields. If you want to talk about “significant uncertainties” this would be the prime place to begin. Even just the final accepted range (let alone all the other numbers that got tossed around) sways the KE by over 300%, a vastly larger error margin than something like pixel scaling uncertainties or spacing assumptions are likely to entail even cumulatively.

I'd just like to point out to you that the reason 0.93 c is used isn’t because of that thread but rather because of the five paragraphs of the op that explain why this speed is used which you don’t seem to have checked..

M3X_2.0 · Mar 9, 2026

Epyriel said:
Putting aside the fact that not evaluated ≠ rejected, I decided to scrutinize the calc myself and noticed a zero got dropped for the reinforced concrete calculation, so the final result should actually be a bit higher (about 151 kilotons). Which puts the difference of the KE values at 6523x - 21921x (without accounting for any speed difference between his travel and his kick).

But the main issue is this: trying to skirt the KE rules by blindly pretending the DC of a feat doesn’t blatantly contradict a proposed KE value simply because there isn’t a currently accepted calc for said DC is poor practice.

If I asked you to just straight up eyeball the destruction of this explosion, even just very roughly, can you honestly tell me you would give me a value anywhere near what the proposed KE values are claiming?

Whether or not we have an accepted calc doesn’t change what is blatantly shown on the page.

The distinction between 'not evaluated' and 'rejected' doesn't give you what you need here. The rule requires an accepted destruction calc to function as a contradiction, that's the bar. A calc that hasn't cleared that bar, for whatever reason, doesn't have standing. You can frame it as 'not evaluated' rather than 'rejected' if you want, but the functional result is the same: it isn't an accepted calc, so it cannot formally contradict anything under the rule as written. The burden sits with whoever wants to invoke the contradiction, and that burden hasn't been met.

You noticed a dropped zero, corrected it informally in a reply, and are now treating the result as a meaningful data point. An unsubmitted, unevaluated calc that gets patched mid-discussion isn't a contradiction, it's a rough draft at best. If the corrected calc is solid, submit it properly and get it evaluated. Until then it carries no more weight than the original version that wasn't accepted.

Epyriel said:
As I believe I already made clear, the reasonable uncertainty margins in the destruction are truly incomparable next to the gargantuan gap to the KE value you are trying to make them account for.

A newer destruction calc was done using inverse square law, reaching 538.3 Megatons on the vaporization end, with the KE low end sitting at 985 Megatons. That's under 2x difference. Your entire 'incomparable margins' framing was built on a 4 orders of magnitude gap that no longer exists. And both calcs share the same foundational assumptions, hollowness, material composition, destruction method interpretation, blast origin distance. If the uncertainty margins were truly incomparable to the gap before, then the gap closing to under 2x using those exact same assumptions tells you something: the assumptions matter a lot more than you were willing to admit. And there's a consistency issue worth pointing out. You've been arguing that the visual depiction of the destruction is self-evident enough to establish a contradiction without needing an accepted calc. If that standard applies to your side, it applies equally to mine, the visual depiction of Dabura's acceleration, the relativistic effects shown on panel, the consistent physical treatment throughout the verse, all of that is just as self-evident. You don't get to bypass the accepted calc requirement when it's convenient for your argument and then invoke it as a hard rule when it isn't.

Epyriel said:
It is arbitrary. You are literally citing a thread where various users are just throwing out specific numbers to fit a vague statement based on little more than vibes, with many of the proposed numbers having large differences between them in terms of their associated KE yields. If you want to talk about “significant uncertainties” this would be the prime place to begin. Even just the final accepted range (let alone all the other numbers that got tossed around) sways the KE by over 300%, a vastly larger error margin than something like pixel scaling uncertainties or spacing assumptions are likely to entail even cumulatively.

The irony here is that this argument cuts both ways. Yes, the near-lightspeed range involves community discussion and agreed-upon conventions, the same way virtually every scaling standard on this site was established. But if 'users debating and reaching a consensus' disqualifies a standard, then the destruction calc assumptions don't fare any better. Hollowness percentages, material compositions, destruction method interpretations, those are also just numbers people agreed on at some point. You're applying a level of scrutiny to the speed standard that you're not applying to the destruction methodology, and that's not a consistent position.

And the 300% KE variance across the accepted range is exactly why we use the range conservatively, the low end of 75% c is specifically there to account for that uncertainty. That's not a flaw in the methodology, that's the methodology working as intended.

Epyriel said:
‘Selectively citing one part of the ruleset while ignoring the part that directly applies to this situation’ is exactly what you are doing.

There is a reason we have both a section for qualifying criteria for using KE and a section for disqualifying criteria for using KE.

If meeting a qualifying criterion for using KE superseded all other concerns, there would literally be zero point to having disqualifying criteria at all - since either you would meet a qualifying criterion or you wouldn’t.

Meeting a qualifying criterion for using KE is a prerequisite for using KE, not a pass. The whole reason we have disqualifying criteria is specifically to catch cases where KE is unusable despite meeting one of the above prerequisites.

The logic here only works if the disqualifying criterion is actually triggered. You keep treating it as self-executing, but the disqualifier explicitly requires an accepted destruction calc contradicting the KE. That's not a technicality, that's the entire condition. Without an accepted calc, the disqualifier has nothing to activate on.

You're essentially arguing that the disqualifying criteria apply because the destruction feat visually looks like it contradicts the KE. But that's precisely what the calc process exists to determine. If visual impression alone were enough to trigger the disqualifier, the requirement for an accepted calc would be meaningless, you could just point at any scene and say 'this looks lower' and call it a contradiction. The accepted calc requirement is there specifically to prevent that.

So yes, qualifying criteria are prerequisites and not passes. But disqualifying criteria aren't automatic either, they have their own conditions, and those conditions haven't been met.

M3X_2.0 · Mar 9, 2026

You're arguing that an unaccepted calc is still sufficient to establish a contradiction based on visual depiction alone. By that logic, I can evaluate the destruction calc, reject it on the basis of its assumptions, and now there is no contradiction at all, accepted or otherwise. That's the standard you're proposing, and it works both ways

Planck69 · Mar 9, 2026

Yeah, M3X makes a lot more sense on this.

KingTempest · Mar 9, 2026

Seconded

JJK: Large Mountain level+ God Tiers - Dabura KE Scaling

Speed cannot be used to find KE when​

Similar threads

Speed cannot be used to find KE when