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Welcome Werewolf by Night, plus upgrades (Marvel Comics)

Tomfer

Tomfer

He/Him
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Jack Russell's Profile:​

vsbattles.fandom.com

Tomfer/Jack Russell

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Here's the profile of Jack Russell, the OG Werewolf by Night. Here are the most notable additions of his profile that need a closer look:

People who scales to him:​

With his profile on the wiki, a few characters will have to be upgraded like Tigra, she'll go from "possibly High 8-C" to "At most High 8-C" with this justification:
Moon Knight (And Hunter's Moon) will be upgraded as well from 9-B to High 8-C with his justification:
  • Varies (The power of a Fist of Khonshu depends on the deity's humor and the loyalty of the fist, with Khonshu giving or taking away their powers at will); High 8-C (Moon Knight and Werewolf by Night have been rivals since the former's debut, constantly fighting each other across multiple runs of both characters with the results ending on either Moon Knight's victory or a draw). His LS will be upgraded as well to match Jack. References are already added to Werewolf's blog, just look at the end.


More abilities for Moon Knight:​

Further justification for his Magic: Pacts between mortals and gods are considered magic, Strange Academy: Moon Knight.

Further justification for his Social Influence - Charisma: Calmed down a force of nature, a being stated to be indifferent to man, Marvel Fanfare 1982 30.

Limited Acausality to Acausality Type 1: Kang gathered all of Khonshu's artefacts that can reshape time/reality itself, and with a mere moment holding them, Kang sucessfully altered reality and erased everyone from current timeline, excluding Khonshu and Moon Knight, thanks to Khonshu's priests. Moon Knight Vol 2 Annual 1

Resistance to Madness Manipulation: Type 2: Through years of practive, Moon Knight trained his mind to keep the voices inside his mind in check and, when in a contact with an untrained, it overwhelms them with multiple voices at once, X-Men: Legacy Vol 1 267. Resisted the maddening influence of the Phoenix Force, breaking free from her grasp, Avengers Vol 8 36.

Resistance to Temperature Manipulation: Took direct hits of "Blistering Heat" and "Artic Cold" from Ultron, Avengers Inc 5.

Resistance to Dream Manipulation: Moon Knigth's mind is far too fractured and broken to be altered, causing Nightmare to be unable to alter Moon Knight's dream in any form, leaving Nightmare powerless inside his dreams. Moon Knight (2021) Annual 2024

Side note: I'll be reorganizing Moon Knight's tabbers because... they're too messy and packed into a single thing.
 
Tomfer said:

Jack Russell's Profile:​

vsbattles.fandom.com

Tomfer/Jack Russell

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Here's the profile of Jack Russell, the OG Werewolf by Night. Here are the most notable additions of his profile that need a closer look:
Click to expand...
Mostly seems fine but I'm not so sure about afterimage creation, comics often show things like that but are actually just action happening in a single frame.
Tomfer said:
Click to expand...
Don't know about you but none of this scans seems to be working for me.
Tomfer said:

People who scales to him:​

With his profile on the wiki, a few characters will have to be upgraded like Tigra, she'll go from "possibly High 8-C" to "At most High 8-C" with this justification:
Click to expand...
Recently been denied of a scaling because the story telling that she wasn't as strong as the other so I'm not sure if that's enough
Tomfer said:
Moon Knight (And Hunter's Moon) will be upgraded as well from 9-B to High 8-C with his justification:
  • Varies (The power of a Fist of Khonshu depends on the deity's humor and the loyalty of the fist, with Khonshu giving or taking away their powers at will); High 8-C (Moon Knight and Werewolf by Night have been rivals since the former's debut, constantly fighting each other across multiple runs of both characters with the results ending on either Moon Knight's victory or a draw). His LS will be upgraded as well to match Jack. References are already added to Werewolf's blog, just look at the end.
Click to expand...
Seems fine
Tomfer said:

More abilities for Moon Knight:​

Further justification for his Magic: Pacts between mortals and gods are considered magic, Strange Academy: Moon Knight.
Click to expand...
Remember reading that, it's fine, although this might be applicable to more characters if all pacts with gods have magic.
Tomfer said:
Further justification for his Social Influence - Charisma: Calmed down a force of nature, a being stated to be indifferent to man, Marvel Fanfare 1982 30.

Limited Acausality to Acausality Type 1: Kang gathered all of Khonshu's artefacts that can reshape time/reality itself, and with a mere moment holding them, Kang sucessfully altered reality and erased everyone from current timeline, excluding Khonshu and Moon Knight, thanks to Khonshu's priests. Moon Knight Vol 2 Annual 1
Click to expand...
I'm not good with stuff like acausality but seems fine to me
Tomfer said:
Resistance to Madness Manipulation: Type 2: Through years of practive, Moon Knight trained his mind to keep the voices inside his mind in check and, when in a contact with an untrained, it overwhelms them with multiple voices at once, X-Men: Legacy Vol 1 267. Resisted the maddening influence of the Phoenix Force, breaking free from her grasp, Avengers Vol 8 36.
Click to expand...
That might be tier 1 mind manipulation resistance too.
Tomfer said:
Resistance to Temperature Manipulation: Took direct hits of "Blistering Heat" and "Artic Cold" from Ultron, Avengers Inc 5.
Click to expand...
Not sure, isn't he saying he will die from those attacks?
Tomfer said:
Resistance to Dream Manipulation: Moon Knigth's mind is far too fractured and broken to be altered, causing Nightmare to be unable to alter Moon Knight's dream in any form, leaving Nightmare powerless inside his dreams. Moon Knight (2021) Annual 2024

Side note: I'll be reorganizing Moon Knight's tabbers because... they're too messy and packed into a single thing.
Click to expand...
Seems fine
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
Don't know about you but none of this scans seems to be working for me.
Click to expand...
Yeah, because it's stored in the wiki. Scans are on the blog, under resistance, so you can still take a look. I'll fix that later today.

Suigetsuhyugs said:
Recently been denied of a scaling because the story telling that she wasn't as strong as the other so I'm not sure if that's enough
Click to expand...
It depends on how the fight went. On this case, while the story said she's weaker, she's still able to put a good fight and even wrestles with Jack a few times. It's clear that the story meant that she cannot stand against him in the long run.

Suigetsuhyugs said:
Remember reading that, it's fine, although this might be applicable to more characters if all pacts with gods have magic.
Click to expand...
Yeah, like Black Panther for example. But I'm focusing on MK at the moment.

Suigetsuhyugs said:
That might be tier 1 mind manipulation resistance too.
Click to expand...
He already has, but yeah.

Suigetsuhyugs said:
Not sure, isn't he saying he will die from those attacks?
Click to expand...
Having resistance isn't being immune. MK can die but is able to resist enough to strike back.
 
I feel like more knowledgeable members would have a problem with Moon Knight scaling to Spider-Man tiers in base

I def see him as At least 8-C tho the whole verse should be upgraded imo
 
Tahoy49574 said:
I feel like more knowledgeable members would have a problem with Moon Knight scaling to Spider-Man tiers in base
Click to expand...
I'm going to be as honest as possible, I couldn't care less. Jack fought Spidey level people too many times = Jack fought MK as equals too many times. It can't be more simple than that.

And unlike current scaling, I'm scaling only characters that make sense since they're part of the same "core" of stories, they both participate in each other's stories far more than any other character.
 
Tomfer said:
Resistanceto:
Click to expand...
All look good, but I don't have the extended knowledge it may needed to sort out additional abilities.

Tomfer said:

People who scales to him:​

With his profile on the wiki, a few characters will have to be upgraded like Tigra, she'll go from "possibly High 8-C" to "At most High 8-C" with this justification:
Click to expand...
Not that big of a change, so I'd say it's ok.

Tomfer said:
Moon Knight (And Hunter's Moon) will be upgraded as well from 9-B to High 8-C with his justification:
  • Varies (The power of a Fist of Khonshu depends on the deity's humor and the loyalty of the fist, with Khonshu giving or taking away their powers at will); High 8-C (Moon Knight and Werewolf by Night have been rivals since the former's debut, constantly fighting each other across multiple runs of both characters with the results ending on either Moon Knight's victory or a draw). His LS will be upgraded as well to match Jack. References are already added to Werewolf's blog, just look at the end.
Click to expand...
Doesn't this sound like a downgrade? Moon Knight is already tiered as up to 8-B.
Anyway, your new explanations look good, but I would also keep the current ones on the profile, they don't contradict each other and instead provide a wider picture together.

Tomfer said:

More abilities for Moon Knight:​

Further justification for his Magic: Pacts between mortals and gods are considered magic, Strange Academy: Moon Knight.

Further justification for his Social Influence - Charisma: Calmed down a force of nature, a being stated to be indifferent to man, Marvel Fanfare 1982 30.

Limited Acausality to Acausality Type 1: Kang gathered all of Khonshu's artefacts that can reshape time/reality itself, and with a mere moment holding them, Kang sucessfully altered reality and erased everyone from current timeline, excluding Khonshu and Moon Knight, thanks to Khonshu's priests. Moon Knight Vol 2 Annual 1

Resistance to Madness Manipulation: Type 2: Through years of practive, Moon Knight trained his mind to keep the voices inside his mind in check and, when in a contact with an untrained, it overwhelms them with multiple voices at once, X-Men: Legacy Vol 1 267. Resisted the maddening influence of the Phoenix Force, breaking free from her grasp, Avengers Vol 8 36.

Resistance to Temperature Manipulation: Took direct hits of "Blistering Heat" and "Artic Cold" from Ultron, Avengers Inc 5.

Resistance to Dream Manipulation: Moon Knigth's mind is far too fractured and broken to be altered, causing Nightmare to be unable to alter Moon Knight's dream in any form, leaving Nightmare powerless inside his dreams. Moon Knight (2021) Annual 2024

Side note: I'll be reorganizing Moon Knight's tabbers because... they're too messy and packed into a single thing.
Click to expand...
Most of these things looks good, but I believe the examples of Madness Manipulation for more for pure Mind Manipulation, regardless of the second type being applied.
The voices and the Phoenix are trying to alter and direct his actions, and while they may be considered forms of madness, due to being genocide and such, it doesn't really sound to me as the traditional definition of madness.

I also don't see him resisting the temperature-based attacks, he shields himself with his cape and agrees with the Ultrons that those attacks would accomplish the result they were meant to have.
 
Tomfer said:
Having resistance isn't being immune. MK can die but is able to resist enough to strike back.
Click to expand...
To address this, it doesn't seem like he is even resisting anyway. At most you can say his cape is sort of resistant, but not knowing the potency of those heat and cold attacks, they may very well just being running their curse, corroding first the cape and then proceeding with his flesh once they chew through it.
 
Tomfer said:
What you mean? His 8-B will go unchanged if you think I'm taking that away. It's going to be "Varies; High 8-C to 8-B physically"
Click to expand...
That kind of ignores how he's typically matched up against and harmed by guys in the Tier 9 range though.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
That kind of ignores how he's typically matched up against and harmed by guys in the Tier 9 range though.
Click to expand...
And who cares? They're not Moon Knight's villains, Werewolf by Night is.

"can contend with the likes of Black Cat" He literally wins in a single page, he didn't took her serious whatsoever. "and Bullseye" There's a reason he dragged the fight, he needed Bullseye alive to fake his own death and make people think that Bullseye killed him and make the Thunderbolts stop chasing him. It's a story justification. I'll even highlight more cases: Moon Knight vs Deadpool. Their first fight was balanced because Moon Knight was actively holding back and didn't wanted to kill Deadpool, but as soon as Deadpool told him that he cannot die, Moon Knight stomped him. The only true justifications are his three (?) fights against the Punisher in Marc Spector: Moon Knight, but again, Moon Knight was in a good phase, trying to not kill anyone and actively holding back. And Punisher himself is a scaling mess to deal with.

I'd rather scale him to an actual character of his story rather than mere crossovers appearances.

Edit: I'd like to add that his Bullseye fight happens in the Civil War event, events are known to make everyone fight everyone.
 
Last edited:
Tomfer said:
What you mean? His 8-B will go unchanged if you think I'm taking that away. It's going to be "Varies; High 8-C to 8-B physically"
Click to expand...
My bad, I misread it.

I don't know Moon Knight enough to say whether or not he should go from 9-B to straight up High 8-C, but I remember we use extra scrutiny for street level heroes because of how much they fluctuate in the narrative, and here someome may make an argument for MK's varying strength.
 
SamanPatou said:
I don't know Moon Knight enough to say whether or not he should go from 9-B to straight up High 8-C, but I remember we use extra scrutiny for street level heroes because of how much they fluctuate in the narrative, and here someome may make an argument for MK's varying strength.
Click to expand...
I'm aware about street level rules of Marvel, but I cannot find any reasoning against scaling MK to his actual antagonist and keeping his poorly explained current scale. I even explained why it's bad in the post above yours.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
That kind of ignores how he's typically matched up against and harmed by guys in the Tier 9 range though.
Click to expand...
These Tier 9 guys are not from his comics so I don’t really see an issue. Rating Marvel characters at one tier because they eventually fight together or against each other once during an event and ignoring the character’s own comics is dumb.

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen Moon Knight holding a ******* building, and he’s one of the few street heroes with canon super strength and general stats. He’s no different from Black Panther who’s also an avatar.

Imo the scaling from the character’s own comics should take precedence over scaling from crossovers from authors who know nothing about the character.
 
SamanPatou said:
I don't know Moon Knight enough to say whether or not he should go from 9-B to straight up High 8-C, but I remember we use extra scrutiny for street level heroes because of how much they fluctuate in the narrative, and here someome may make an argument for MK's varying strength.
Click to expand...
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Aside from that, everything looks good, not going to touch on the scaling stuff since I don't know Marvel.
Click to expand...
Would you be willing to reevaluate? M3X is one of the few people here that read street level comics, and his opinion have significant value since he read almost everything of Moon Knight for his other projects.
 
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