Skill Issue or nah? - Skill League interest gathering

[Nonynho]

13/20

this is getting exciting

 

[CJunitilarian]

Hm
Yeah, i'll be including her though i HIGHLY indicate that you invest time in our boy Cocytus' profile and nominate him instead lol
It'll be very interesting to see how high an Overlord fella will end up being here

I also thought of Cocytus first
But then looking at how outdated both he and Shalltear's profiles are, i chose Shalltear
and is it me or are the profiles using wn info?????????
Anyways i'm more used to shalltear and can cook up a wincon or two for her
And also Cocytus relies on shii like Frost aura and all'at
Same with shalltear, but she uses a lance hehe
also in your opinion, how limited will Shalltear be here

 

[Nonynho]

I also thought of Cocytus first
But then looking at how outdated both he and Shalltear's profiles are, i chose Shalltear
and is it me or are the profiles using wn info?????????
Anyways i'm more used to shalltear and can cook up a wincon or two for her
And also Cocytus relies on shii like Frost aura and all'at
Same with shalltear, but she uses a lance hehe
also in your opinion, how limited will Shalltear be here

Shalltear will have a quarterstaff lol

I'd recommend cocytus because of who we can prove by fights (and a statement) that he's stronger than and because he's using 6 swords lmao

 

[Nonynho]

Shalltear will have a quarterstaff lol

I'd recommend cocytus because of who we can prove by fights (and a statement) that he's stronger than and because he's using 6 swords lmao

Matter of fact, why don't we use Sebas?
Cqc skills such as his may be prefferable ig

 

[CJunitilarian]

Shalltear will have a quarterstaff lol

I'd recommend cocytus because of who we can prove by fights (and a statement) that he's stronger than and because he's using 6 swords lmao

We gonna be debating according to profiles yeah?
Look at the profiles and see the vast amount of information its missing

Matter of fact, why don't we use Sebas?
Cqc skills such as his may be prefferable ig

That is not on his profile
But another person on my mind was Shizu (CZ2128)
But based off what im seeing on pfps, shalltear still looks like best bet imo

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

don’t be talking about no “skill brackets” without including Marvel’s resident Skill Feat Stealer

 

[azontr]

Insane that nobody told me about this

 

[azontr]

Entering one of my concubines

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

i am going with Reid Astrea

please deteail EXACTLY how is this process done and why it would for anyone to learn it under certain conditions

Ram's synchronization isn't a passive supernatural ability she was born with. It's a hidden art of the Oni Clan that relies on synchronizing with another person's wavelength, allowing her to perceive things from their perspective. It's treated as a technique rather than a spell or magical hax.

If the standard is "no hax, only skill," then I don't see why a learned perception technique should be disallowed. Plenty of skill-based characters use external methods or techniques to improve their combat awareness. For eg, there are machine-based fighters who rely on prediction software, combat AIs, targeting systems, or analytical computers to read and anticipate their opponents. Those are generally accepted as skill-enhancing tools rather than hax because they improve how the fighter processes information instead of winning the fight for them.

Ram's technique serves a similar purpose. It gives her better battlefield awareness; she still has to interpret that information and actually capitalize on it through her own combat ability. If the concern is simply that the results are too extraordinary, then where exactly is the line being drawn? Because once learned perception techniques are excluded for being "too good," you'd also have to start questioning predictive combat systems, analytical fighting styles, and other forms of skill-based combat precognition that are usually accepted in these kinds of tournaments.

No.

Why wouldn't it count? The clones aren't created through magic or reality manipulation, they're produced through a technique using his own hair.

The end result might look supernatural, but a lot of skill-based characters have techniques that seem impossible. Creating afterimages through movement, manipulating wires or cloth with absurd precision, using hidden weapons, or controlling body parts in unconventional ways are all generally accepted as demonstrations of skill rather than hax.

If the issue is simply "it creates clones," then the question shouldn't be what the technique looks like, but how it's accomplished. If it's a physical combat technique rather than an innate supernatural power, I don't see why it should be treated differently from any other advanced martial art.

I'd count as him having a 1.1x buff because it really sounds like "in the verse anyone can hit a weak spot if they're good enough and he's consistently good enough to always hit those"
Good enough?
i'm standardizing all of those weird buffs to be 1.1x so don't feel like i'm mistreating you in particular or the character

Are all precision-based techniques and one-shot methods being restricted, or only Reid's?

Because if they're all being normalized, that's fair enough, but then every character whose fighting style revolves around exploiting openings, weak spots, or perfect technique should be treated the same way.

The issue isn't that Reid gets a one-shot. The issue is why he gets it. If it's because of supernatural hax, then sure, remove it. But if it's because his swordsmanship is so refined that he can consistently exploit the most optimal point of attack, then that's literally the definition of a skill feat.

You described it as Reid consistently hitting weak spots, but then said it should be treated as a generic 1.1x buff. Those are two completely different conclusions. If it's just an extension of his precision and technique, why is it being reduced to a flat damage multiplier?

If every exceptional display of technique gets flattened into a small buff because it's "too good," then the tournament isn't really evaluating the upper limits of skill anymore.

 

[God_of_perversion]

i am going with Reid Astrea


Ram's synchronization isn't a passive supernatural ability she was born with. It's a hidden art of the Oni Clan that relies on synchronizing with another person's wavelength, allowing her to perceive things from their perspective. It's treated as a technique rather than a spell or magical hax.

If the standard is "no hax, only skill," then I don't see why a learned perception technique should be disallowed. Plenty of skill-based characters use external methods or techniques to improve their combat awareness. For eg, there are machine-based fighters who rely on prediction software, combat AIs, targeting systems, or analytical computers to read and anticipate their opponents. Those are generally accepted as skill-enhancing tools rather than hax because they improve how the fighter processes information instead of winning the fight for them.

Ram's technique serves a similar purpose. It gives her better battlefield awareness; she still has to interpret that information and actually capitalize on it through her own combat ability. If the concern is simply that the results are too extraordinary, then where exactly is the line being drawn? Because once learned perception techniques are excluded for being "too good," you'd also have to start questioning predictive combat systems, analytical fighting styles, and other forms of skill-based combat precognition that are usually accepted in these kinds of tournaments.

Why wouldn't it count? The clones aren't created through magic or reality manipulation, they're produced through a technique using his own hair.

The end result might look supernatural, but a lot of skill-based characters have techniques that seem impossible. Creating afterimages through movement, manipulating wires or cloth with absurd precision, using hidden weapons, or controlling body parts in unconventional ways are all generally accepted as demonstrations of skill rather than hax.

If the issue is simply "it creates clones," then the question shouldn't be what the technique looks like, but how it's accomplished. If it's a physical combat technique rather than an innate supernatural power, I don't see why it should be treated differently from any other advanced martial art.

Are all precision-based techniques and one-shot methods being restricted, or only Reid's?

Because if they're all being normalized, that's fair enough, but then every character whose fighting style revolves around exploiting openings, weak spots, or perfect technique should be treated the same way.

The issue isn't that Reid gets a one-shot. The issue is why he gets it. If it's because of supernatural hax, then sure, remove it. But if it's because his swordsmanship is so refined that he can consistently exploit the most optimal point of attack, then that's literally the definition of a skill feat.

You described it as Reid consistently hitting weak spots, but then said it should be treated as a generic 1.1x buff. Those are two completely different conclusions. If it's just an extension of his precision and technique, why is it being reduced to a flat damage multiplier?

If every exceptional display of technique gets flattened into a small buff because it's "too good," then the tournament isn't really evaluating the upper limits of skill anymore.

Supernatural sahur.
Imagine if we just let Mori have his Spatial manipulation because it is caused by his skill and proficience in Renewal Taekwondo.

Not everything that a series brands as "skill" counts as skill.
Should we allow Baki to have subjective reality?

Sensing some one's wavelength is still Enhanced senses/Extra sensory perception

Creating clones is super natural no matter in which way you look at it.

Killing some one because you've hit their weak spot only happens if that weak spot is a vital part of the body. If Reid can just touch your arm and you instantly die than it is not a skill feat, but if Reid can consistently hit vital parts and that's why you die then that is an actuall skill feat

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Snip

I think we're mostly on the same page. I agree that not everything a verse calls "skill" should automatically be allowed in a no-hax tournament. So I wouldn't argue for things like concept cutting, Authority interaction, space cutting, supernatural sensory abilities, clone techniques, or similar effects just because they're attributed to skill in-universe.

My only point is that I think there's a distinction between supernatural applications of skill and fictional but fundamentally physical applications of skill. Re:Zero consistently showcases things like anatomical precision, pressure points, weak-point exploitation, impossible timing, and absurd target selection as martial skill. I'd keep those while removing anything that relies on interacting with supernatural mechanics. Like Reid's conceptual cutting.

I was under the impression that things like ESP were allowed since they're often treated as part of information gathering, which can contribute to skill-based decision-making, or stuff like being able to precisely cut the weak spots that would allow a character to kill their opponent in a single strike.

If the tournament draws the line more strictly than that, that's completely fair; I'm not trying to argue for exceptions or keep overtly supernatural abilities. I just wanted to explain where I personally think the distinction lies. Other than that, I'm fine with going by whatever standard the tournament ends up using.

 

[First_Witch]

I think we're mostly on the same page. I agree that not everything a verse calls "skill" should automatically be allowed in a no-hax tournament. So I wouldn't argue for things like concept cutting, Authority interaction, space cutting, supernatural sensory abilities, clone techniques, or similar effects just because they're attributed to skill in-universe.

My only point is that I think there's a distinction between supernatural applications of skill and fictional but fundamentally physical applications of skill. Re:Zero consistently showcases things like anatomical precision, pressure points, weak-point exploitation, impossible timing, and absurd target selection as martial skill. I'd keep those while removing anything that relies on interacting with supernatural mechanics. Like Reid's conceptual cutting.

Hes growing. I'm so proud of him

 

[God_of_perversion]

I think we're mostly on the same page. I agree that not everything a verse calls "skill" should automatically be allowed in a no-hax tournament. So I wouldn't argue for things like concept cutting, Authority interaction, space cutting, supernatural sensory abilities, clone techniques, or similar effects just because they're attributed to skill in-universe.

My only point is that I think there's a distinction between supernatural applications of skill and fictional but fundamentally physical applications of skill. Re:Zero consistently showcases things like anatomical precision, pressure points, weak-point exploitation, impossible timing, and absurd target selection as martial skill. I'd keep those while removing anything that relies on interacting with supernatural mechanics. Like Reid's conceptual cutting.

I was under the impression that things like ESP were allowed since they're often treated as part of information gathering, which can contribute to skill-based decision-making, or stuff like being able to precisely cut the weak spots that would allow a character to kill their opponent in a single strike.

If the tournament draws the line more strictly than that, that's completely fair; I'm not trying to argue for exceptions or keep overtly supernatural abilities. I just wanted to explain where I personally think the distinction lies. Other than that, I'm fine with going by whatever standard the tournament ends up using.

I think Nony needs to stabelish in the rule set what counts as a ability and what doesn't.

 

[Nonynho]

Insane that nobody told me about this

i asked everyone who knows someone to tell'em

blame anyone you call friend lol
/j

don’t be talking about no “skill brackets” without including Marvel’s resident Skill Feat Stealer

my literal 3rd most expected fella just came, f* yeah

Ram's synchronization isn't a passive supernatural ability she was born with. It's a hidden art of the Oni Clan that relies on synchronizing with another person's wavelength, allowing her to perceive things from their perspective. It's treated as a technique rather than a spell or magical hax.

I like Rem's sister but i'm reeeeeeally not sold into that
and it's not like Ram would survive for long in here either lol

Why wouldn't it count? The clones aren't created through magic or reality manipulation, they're produced through a technique using his own hair.

Her hair makes afterimages that look like their entire body and it is just through sheer skill? Sorry but i'm less sold into this one than i'm at Ram's argument.
At least if it was something like Killua's example, where it's a walking rhythm that plays kind of a hypnotic role...

Are all precision-based techniques and one-shot methods being restricted, or only Reid's?

precision-based are not, but one-shots are all being toned down for obvious reasons
that 1.1x measure was given to Cid Kagenou too, fyk

You described it as Reid consistently hitting weak spots, but then said it should be treated as a generic 1.1x buff. Those are two completely different conclusions. If it's just an extension of his precision and technique, why is it being reduced to a flat damage multiplier?

If every exceptional display of technique gets flattened into a small buff because it's "too good," then the tournament isn't really evaluating the upper limits of skill anymore.

Yeah, it's called Pressure Points, i know

That's why i think he's definetely able to fetch a buff, and unless you show him outright killing basically anyone around his level that he ends up fighting, imma settle this at 1.1x.
If you indeed show more than like 2 times he's able to kill people on his level with this, then i can't do anything lol

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

snip

I am still waiting for how to treat tensura "arts", specifically Hakurous

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Btw Halibel's ability to become imperceptible is also not allowed right

• Stealth Mastery & Invisibility (1 Layer; Having been trained as a shinobi, Halibel's presence is nigh-undetectable even when he isn't trying to hide. Halibel's stealth allowed him to sneak into a carriage with many skilled warriors, with none of them able to notice his presence, not even the likes of Goz Ralfon. Halibel is also able to hide his scent such that demi-humans with heightened senses cannot smell him.)

 

[Nonynho]

I think Nony needs to stabelish in the rule set what counts as a ability and what doesn't.

to me it's quite simple:
If what you can do is something one could also learn via practice, you can do it.

Why does Reid keep his bs by hitting weak spots? Because one can learn how to hit weak spots

Simple as that, because skill here is basically "what all could do but only i can because i studied/trained REALLY hard. Being born how i was affected how stuff went but me wanting really hard to be better makes me at that level"

 

[Nonynho]

Btw Halibel's ability to become imperceptible is also not allowed right

invisibility is a no-no

if she's able to stealth in the middle of an arena somehow, then yeah, she's still good af in stealth

 

[Nonynho]

I am still waiting for how to treat tensura "arts", specifically Hakurous

mind elaborating? forgor about them

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

mind elaborating? forgor about them

We have the "hax" arts, such as Haze and Formhile, imo Haze should be restricted, while Formhile is limited to sound and Smell. The Speed amps arts, such as Instant Move and Modelwill, which allow them to use aura offensively. (All but Formhilde should be restricted imo, and Formhilde debuffed to what I mentioned.

Then we have his "fighting moves", such as Haze style. I am gonna guess we are negating their abilities/effects?

Also, just wanna check: we are restricting Heavenly Gaze and Magic Sense, right?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

snip

wait this uh changes things then

Her hair makes afterimages that look like their entire body and it is just through sheer skill? Sorry but i'm less sold into this one than i'm at Ram's argument.
At least if it was something like Killua's example, where it's a walking rhythm that plays kind of a hypnotic role...

So i guess his duplication will work to some capacity?

• Duplication (He can clone himself to become 4 Halibels. The Clones are identical to the original in every way, quadrupling his fighting strength. He can create 2 types of clones; those that are illusions made of fur, and those that are genuine clones with substance on par with his real body)

precision-based are not, but one-shots are all being toned down for obvious reasons
that 1.1x measure was given to Cid Kagenou too, fyk


Yeah, it's called Pressure Points, i know

That's why i think he's definetely able to fetch a buff, and unless you show him outright killing basically anyone around his level that he ends up fighting, imma settle this at 1.1x.
If you indeed show more than like 2 times he's able to kill people on his level with this, then i can't do anything lol

He scales an eternity of training above Wilhelm who can do stuff like negate 2x his AP and stop a dragon who can one shot him multiple times over via precision

Superior to the Sword Demon, who when faced with a chunk of floor rebounding towards him with twice the speed and force he kicked it away with, voided all of its power by stabbing the dead center of its mass with surgical precision, a genius feat in the realm of the divine. When the Sword Demon was caught in a Dragon's jaws, he perfectly aligned the tips of his swords against eachother to make a brace preventing the jaws from closing, for if the tips pointed towards the Dragon instead of eachother the jaws would be pierced, and crush him)

Alternatively Olbart can ko with pressure points:

• Pressure Points (Halibel is a superior shinobi to Olbart, who can precisely strike the weak spots of the human body,knocking them out even if they're undead)

There is this too where he can manipulate his environment using a ninja technique:

He can use a ninjutsu which can soften the ground, allowing him to prevent others from moving by pulling them into the earth. He can use this technique to swim through the earth. This technique has been used by inferior shinobi like Olbart, who with a light strike, caused the surface of a wall to ripple like water, allowing him to stuff bodies inside the wall itself, after which the wall's surface returned to a solid state as if nothing happened

invisibility is a no-no

if she's able to stealth in the middle of an arena somehow, then yeah, she's still good af in stealth

Alright then this should be fine i suppose

Also i know Halibel looks pregnant but he is just a fat wolfman (halibelly frfr)

 

[UrongSygn1]

Also i know Halibel looks pregnant but he is just a fat wolfman (halibelly frfr)

Halibel is a fat Chud with hella aura

 

[Nonynho]

We have the "hax" arts, such as Haze and Formhile, imo Haze should be restricted, while Formhile is limited to sound and Smell. The Speed amps arts, such as Instant Move and Modelwill, which allow them to use aura offensively. (All but Formhilde should be restricted imo, and Formhilde debuffed to what I mentioned.

Then we have his "fighting moves", such as Haze style. I am gonna guess we are negating their abilities/effects?

Also, just wanna check: we are restricting Heavenly Gaze and Magic Sense, right?

i think all your assumptions are correct, from what i can remember of those

So i guess his duplication will work to some capacity?

It R E A L L Y seems like something one can't learn so imma say it's a no-no
Like how much fur would be needed to form the ones with fur?
How tf is he non-magically creating those?
And where tf is this "substance just like Halibel himself" non-magically appearing from?

Just too much to believe in.

Also i know Halibel looks pregnant but he is just a fat wolfman (halibelly frfr)

I keep forgetting Halibel is a wolfMAN in Re:Zero because this name strikes me as a feminine one because of THE QUEEN

He scales an eternity of training above Wilhelm who can do stuff like negate 2x his AP and stop a dragon who can one shot him multiple times over via precision

Which shows he is skilled but does not prove that he can always one-shot everyone at his level with that

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

i think all your assumptions are correct, from what i can remember of those


It R E A L L Y seems like something one can't learn so imma say it's a no-no
Like how much fur would be needed to form the ones with fur?
How tf is he non-magically creating those?
And where tf is this "substance just like Halibel himself" non-magically appearing from?

i am talking about his ability to make Illusion based clones with fur and not the actual ones

Just too much to believe in.

I keep forgetting Halibel is a wolfMAN in Re:Zero because this name strikes me as a feminine one because of THE QUEEN

true

Which shows he is skilled but does not prove that he can always one-shot everyone at his level with that

I don't think we're really disagreeing on what Reid is capable of in-universe anymore. It seems like the remaining difference is how much of that should carry over into a balanced tournament setting. If the 1.1× is just a balancing abstraction rather than a literal representation of how Reid's swordsmanship works, then I can understand that even if I would've modeled it differently. The point is that you dont want anybody to have a one shot capability right?

There are several one shot techniques but It'd probably require a proper CRT to establish, so I'm fine leaving it at the tournament's current interpretation for now.

 

[Nonynho]

i am talking about his ability to make Illusion based clones with fur and not the actual ones

yeah, still a no-no today

The point is that you dont want anybody to have a one shot capability right?

Unless they're shown to be able to one-shot people with the same tiering consistently, then i can't do nothing about it
Other not-as-good explanations are leveled to be a slight-but-substantial buff, yeah

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

yeah, still a no-no today


Unless they're shown to be able to one-shot people with the same tiering consistently, then i can't do nothing about it
Other not-as-good explanations are leveled to be a slight-but-substantial buff, yeah

Fine, for starters there is the palm of the fist king of Batenkaitos

Even Batenkaitos wouldn't emerge unscathed if a man who shat-tered a blade with his hands landed a clean hit.

"Ha-ha! Still lively, aint'cha, old man? I don't hate that!"

"I'm not that old ye... Wha?!"

He jabbed his fingernails into Gaston's side to interrupt him, but that didn't stop his charge. Just like with the sword, some sort of inexplicable defense technique nullified the force of Batenkaitos's fingers. Gaston pressed on, trying to grab Batenkaitos's head-

"-Fist Lord's Strike."

"Ugh?!"

Batenkaitos mumbled something, and the moment his palm touched Gaston, the big man crumbled. He dropped to his knees, heaving from the unexpected blow.- Volume 20, Chapter 1 page 31

Normal strike-> does nothing
POTFK-> Gaston crumbles
Another example of this

Julius froze as his opponent dropped his short swords. There was a loud clatter as they hit the floor.

And then Alphard's small heel cracked the stone floor.

"-Eclipse."

Alphard closed the distance in the blink of an eye, twisting his hip to thrust his palm forward with terrifying strength. Julius reflexively blocked it with his left arm, but the force of the blow pen-etrated his arm and hammered his chest.

"Agh."

The step forward and twisted hip transmitted a great deal of power into the palm thrust. The penetrating power dealt internal damage as Julius's thin frame literally crumpled and went flying back.

"This strike has slain 88 other pretty-boys... Did you feel it in the marrow of your bones, brother?"- Volume 20, Prologue pages 17-18

Batenkaitos can also amp his speed to cover distance and attack in an instant against comparable opponents

Now second technique, Ultimate Palm

"I don't understand anything about you!"

Julius erupted at Alphard's continued rambling. He dropped his defensive stance and went on the offensive. Slashing and thrusting as he advanced, he pressed the attack with his sword and kicks as Alphard's stance broke down. His strikes were imbued with an indescribable rage and hostil-ity he could not place. Julius sliced off some of Alphard's long hair when Alphard was a little too slow. However, it was foolish of him to only watch for the sword.

"Buds!"

Responding to Julius's call, the spirits that were linked with him twinkled.

The six quasi-spirit's beautiful gleam enveloped Julius, who chan-neled their strength to shroud his blade in light to destroy his enemy. This was the rainbow blade imbued with all six elements of magic-the very same attack that had defeated the Sin Archbishop of Sloth.

"This is the end!"

Certain of his victory, Julius bore down on Alphard. He thrust straight at the center of Alphard's chest-

"Ultimate palm."

Alphard brought his black hands together right in front of him, catching the end of Julius's sword and shattering it to pieces. The steel crumbled, and his lethal thrust lost all momentum.

However, the streak of multicolored light continued forward toward the enemy.

"Twilight mage."

A glimmer of magic unfolded behind Alphard, Swallowing up the beam. It was intercepted by a spell that sported the exact same color. The two completely canceled each other out.

On top of that, having lost his means of attacking, Julius widened his eyes.-Volume 20, Prologue page 21-22

He used it to nullify and even destroy his opponent's sword (though he did have to use magic afterwards to counter his magic)

Another example:

Even if it wasn't a sharp sword, an attack with enough force to knock Batenkaitos out of the fight in one blow was hurtling downward-

"-Ultimate Palm."

"Kyah?!"

A black fist shattered the ice sword mid-swing, like it was made of glass. The unexpected destruction ruined Emilia's balance, and Glut-onny's hind leg swept her pivot foot out from under her, sending her spinning with a cry as his fingernails thrust toward her face.- Volume 24, Chapter 5 page 160

Another example is when he uses it to send A Guiltylowe flying to his death (King of Mabeasts btw)

Within Rom-jii’s vision as he shuddered, the loud voice of Roy cheered in jubilation upon the land befouled by the Black Serpent.

At the same time, the Witchbeast of large build was launched skyward by a palm strike from directly below, its blood arcing through the air like a crimson trail.

Meili: [Shadow Lion-chan―― hk!!]

An exclamation, Meili’s hand outstretched to no avail.

The Witchbeast that had been shot upwards, the Guiltilaw, plummeted to the ground that had been befouled by the Black Serpent in an unavoidable crash; its gargantuan build was licked by that foul tongue, violating it with terrible vigor. With the roar of its agonizing death screech as his backdrop, Roy too stood at the heart of the befoulment. ――Even so, manipulating the blood pouring from his gashed wounds, Roy had fashioned for himself legs akin to those of a crustacean, concocting a stance with his feet hovering above the ground.- Arc 9, Chapter 45

Then we come to Roswaal's Fa Jin, it was stated to be capable of dealing internal damage to comparable opponents

“...You’re going to regret that big mouth of yours,” Roswaal replied. The instant he recognized that their negotiations had broken down, he made his move.

There was about five meters between them, but Roswaal, cloaked in wind, closed the gap in a single breath. His target was his opponent’s torso, which was remarkable in terms of speed. His muscles were tough as armor, but if the impact passed through the gaps, his internal organs would be easy pickings.

A single strike that dealt a crushing blow to the internal organs behind the muscle—it was a technique called fa jin that he’d learned two generations ago. In order to deliver the blow, Roswaal placed his palm on his opponent’s stomach, and—

“Hah!” The strike made contact at the same time he stepped, and the blowback passed behind him. The wind born from it blew away the dirt in the alley, and a sensation ricocheted back through his entire body.

The power with which it tore through his internal organs easily sapped the strength from the two legs supporting his massive frame. Naturally, without any support for his body, it gave out…and yet, he remained standing.

“What?” Roswaal uttered in surprise.

“Ah, crap… That hurt, you lanky brat.” With the assumption that he’d fall having failed, the man clicked his tongue and grit his back teeth in frustration. Seeing this, Roswaal gulped. It wasn’t that he had dissipated the impact with some special technique. He simply endured it with an insane level of tenacity.- Once Upon a Time in Lagunica, Part 1

However, when that didnt work against Marcos, He used a stronger technique. Full body Fa Jin which is a 10x AP amp, Marcos also copied it and created his own one shot technique which shattered Roswaal's shoulder just from grazing his thumb

Roswaal managed to escape by ducking backwards even more forcefully than when he had lowered his head. He spun around as strands of indigo blue hair danced in the air around him, lopped off by the knee which they had just fallen short of escaping.

Taking his eye off his opponent at point blank range was the epitome of recklessness. But Roswaal had done so intentionally. In the opening he had deliberately exposed, he received Marcos’s attack. And in that instant, his right shoulder shattered. The impact came from nothing more than a thumb graze of his opponent’s fist. But with that single hit, Roswaal’s right arm was rendered out-of-service.

That was worth it, though, he thought. “I finally got completely within your reach.”

Shirking off the pain from his broken shoulder, Roswaal was confident in his victory. He’d lightly bumped into Marcos’s chest with his back. Although it left him in a backwards stance, the surface area that made contact with his body was far greater than that of his palm.

The force of the fa jin released from this position was roughly ten times stronger than that released from his palm—a force that even Marcos couldn’t withstand.

Although interwoven with magic, it was ultimately through martial arts that he overcame his opponent. Having accomplished this difficult task, he could at last report back to his teacher with pride. However, in the moment he released the fa jin, Roswaal realized something.

“───”- Once Upon a Time in Lagunica, Part 2

Here is marcos completely copying Full Body Fa-Jin, mind you Marcos is not a wind magic user so this is completely because of his martial skill

Although interwoven with magic, it was ultimately through martial arts that he overcame his opponent. Having accomplished this difficult task, he could at last report back to his teacher with pride. However, in the moment he released the fa jin, Roswaal realized something.

“───”

With his back turned, he sensed Marcos tighten his chest muscles. It was not a defensive stance to withstand Roswaal’s powerful strike—it was the initial stance done in preparation for releasing fa jin.

Occasionally, the world would give birth to a titan—a child of battle, endowed with a violent ferocity capable of overwhelming others, allowing them to readily absorb an opponent's long-cultivated martial arts and handle them at will, as if that skill were their own.

Marcos was the perfect depiction of such a titan.- Once Upon a Time in Lagunica, Part 3

Then there is Ram in her fight against Ley, she couldnt break through his tough skin and so instead of that generated shockwave from her punches and kicks that broke his bones and liquefied his organs.

Hearing her footsteps approach, Lye changed his shape.

His new form was tall and burly. He batted down the oncoming fist, but Ram broke his knee.

Kicked down, Lye changed to escape Ram.

A big bearded man, strengthening his defenses by curling up-she kicked his body up into the air, slamming him against the ceiling in a barrage of punches, turning him into slack mass of flesh beneath that tough skin he was so proud of.

Lye changed shape once again to kill Ram, who was subjecting him to endless torture.- Volume 25, Chapter 7 page 200

Ram gradually increased the heat of her body, removing the limiters in stages. Her blood boiled and the muscles in her slender body undulated. It was a girl's body that may have felt soft, fragile, and unreliable to the touch, but the blood that flowed inside her veins, and the flesh and bones that made her, were those of one of the strongest races in the world.

The return of the Oni God, the warrior hailed as greatest master-piece of them all...

"That's our big sister! Ahh, how wonderful! So radiant! The sister Rem could never hope to match, no matter how she tried!"

"Don't drool. It is uncouth. And do not compare me to anyone."

"Heh, why is that?"

"It should be obvious. I don't need anything more other than the title of Rem's big sister."

Ram kicked off the stairs, descending in a flash with a preemptive attack, but Lye evaded with a big leap backward. She unleashed a series of ferocious attacks using her arms and legs, any of which would shred skin, break bone and liquefy inter-nal organs. It wasn't a martial art that relied on just simple physical abilities or techniques. If it was just pure finesse, Lye would have been able to handle it by re-creating some of the countless techniques he had access to from the memories of those he had consumed.

However, there was a clear difference between what Ram was doing and something simple like that.

"-"

She surged forward, freely controlling the acceleration of each and every knee and elbow she threw at the Archbishop. Cladding herself in her specialty wind magic, she was subtly weaving deception into the middle of her combat.

She was manipulating Lye's perceptions by accelerating or decel-erating attacks with wind. And to top it off, she was using the wind to spread her presence in all directions, slipping her attacks into his dead angles with swift motion, unleashing with multiple deadly blows.

"Hah! Can't get enough of this!"

Just barely dodging her attacks, Lye cheered happily.

He was bleeding from his right cheek, and his long, disheveled brown hair danced wildly, but Gluttony was apparently enjoying the comparison of skills.

"Grudges are the spice we can't get enough of! The bitterness of those shrewd tricks! You are the perfect dish for a gourmet like us, sister!"

Lye grinned condescendingly as they descended the spiral stairs, constantly changing places.

Saliva dripping from his open mouth, he hit Ram's wand with the twin swords in his hands and opened some space between them.

"Yes, nice, great, delicious, delectable, more, more! Gluttony! Gluttony!"

"-"

"The scent of that rage is divine! Someone who hates us specifi-cally this much... what sort of flavor will you have?!"

Clapping his hands, he shuddered in anticipation of an incompre-hensible pleasure.- Volume 25, Chapter 5 pages 136-137

Now onto Reid Astrea, destroying a horse king using only a pair of chopsticks

Reid wiped away the flesh from the bottom of his sandal, and then turned his hand toward another centaur standing near him. In this hand he was holding a thin wooden stick like some sort of joke-it almost looked like a chopstick.

"The trick for being popular with women is looks. A good booze to try is a liquor called Gramhilde. And as for why I'm the strongest in the world, that's cause I'm me."

Saying that, Reid started lightly moving the chopstick he pulled out. The next instant, cracks formed all over the centaur that had stopped moving, and blood erupted from it. The demon beast was slow to real-ize its body was being destroyed and howled at the death-bringing pain.- Volume 23, Chapter 6 pages 196-197

He can also produce shockwaves and catch swords with chopsticks purely because of his mastery.

...Reid caught Julius's preemptive attack with the two chopsticks in his hands. It was an absurd technique, almost like the reenactment of a story about Miyamoto Musashi. No, even Miyamoto Musashi didn't stop an opponent's sword with nothing but chopsticks.

"Ngrgh..."

"Well, it wasn't bad I guess. Anyone other than me would've bought the farm. Welp, let's go." Reid grinned like a shark at Julius. And then, with one chopstick in each hand, he stepped forward while brushing aside the tip of the sword and unleashing an attack. The impact hit the side of the knight's sword with a loud crack.

"-"

The short, wooden stick was incomparable to a sword, but in the hand of a master like Reid, it became a lethal weapon far greater than it's size implied, sowing destruction wherever it went. Right after the ferocious crack, the resulting shock wave blasted Julius's hair and clothes, shattering all the frozen ice covering the passage. It was completely absurd. Utterly unreasonable. It wouldn't be wrong to call it a glitch in real life.- Volume 24, Chapter 4 page 143

And of course he scales above everything they have done. I think it should be undeniable now that Reid has multiple one shot techniques against people comparable/stronger to him in AP/Dura?

 

[Nonynho]

I think it should be undeniable now that Reid has multiple one shot techniques against people comparable/stronger to him in AP/Dura?

yup lmfao

i'm even more glad to just be the one making this instead of participating because i'd have a bad time trying to develop counters to that
I can only think of one or two that end up winning against it lol

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

yup lmfao

i'm even more glad to just be the one making this instead of participating because i'd have a bad time trying to develop counters to that
I can only think of one or two that end up winning against it lol

I left out the biggest ones because then it would get too long

question is, should i use Halibel or Reid

 

[UrongSygn1]

question is, should i use Halibel or Reid

I choose Halibel

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I choose Halibel

Reid it is for me then

 

[Nonynho]

question is, should i use Halibel or Reid

"Should i use coughing baby or Hydrogen bomb?"

 

[azontr]

Are you gonna put like a list of the characters in the OP or

 

[Nonynho]

Are you gonna put like a list of the characters in the OP or

i'll keep updating the list in a separate thread where the actual tournament will happen
In there i'll already have sorted out the first rounds and we'll start the debates there, creating threads if needed.
My idea is for this to be a Single-Round Robin Tournament so we'll be talking for quite a while and 3 pages of discussing entry can be a bit bad

 

[Nonynho]

Current list

 

[azontr]

That's kinda dumb but ok

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

snip

That reminds me, how do we deal with Hakurous durability negation?

 

[Nonynho]

That reminds me, how do we deal with Hakurous durability negation?

If it is not based on magic and it is by hitting weak points or something similar, he gets either the Cid Kagenou solution (1.1x buff from it) or the Reid one (if we can prove he can do x times buff only through skill to people in a similar or equal rating than his)

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

If it is not based on magic and it is by hitting weak points or something similar, he gets either the Cid Kagenou solution (1.1x buff from it) or the Reid one (if we can prove he can do x times buff only through skill to people in a similar or equal rating than his)

It is accepted as his dura negating through "skill", even people that are far stronger than him, he can still one shot, and yes, this is accepted (I passed the thread myself)

 

[Nonynho]

Oh boy.
Good luck to non-novel fellas lol

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

If I had to choose the RE Zero character, I'd choose Halibel, my man is a good guy compared to Reid...