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Project Moon Discussion 2

Oh ok. So is it safe to say that there's no problem with Jia Xichun also being a scaled to splitters as well?
Read his passives. The Night Drifter was nerfed by Spreading Snake Venom in the final showdown when she killed him. Had -7 Offense and Defense Level down, making him effectively Level 63.

Also, max stats Post-Training Xichun with all passives is genuinely cracked. She goes from Level 50 to Level 60 overall, and her max Yong gives her another 7 offense levels, making her attacks effectively Level 67 (haha funny number) when she kills the Night Drifter if you get the special cutscene.
Well if we're so set on following the levels then isn't that all the more justification for Kira to scale to the WAW-ALEPH tier? Since she's 5 levels above the Sinners and just 1 level below Rufo, on top of her being previously shown to be capable of clashing head-on with a Ring Maestro.
No because "Splitters" don't start at level 65.
 
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So your saying that you agree with the Night Drifter being stronger than Ricardo then?
I can sense you trying to gotcha me with this one but yeah, he is stronger than Ricardo. Cultivation Xichun is just really strong and he gets poisoned early on, and even then it is kind of tough to win clashes with him there, it's just not a total bloodbath like Ricardo.
Also Kira is literally 1 level lower than Rufo. Are you seriously saying that that's enough for her to not scale to her?
My statement, actually, is that Kira and Rufo scaling to a Maestro is insane, by direct feats even if you completely ignore both levels and the simple hierarchy of Rufo being a docent rather than a Maestro.
Have you considered the possibility that the reason she said that is because the Sinners are all supposed to be in Ricardo's level at this point in the story?
What does that have to do with Kira making no difference despite supposedly being capable of goring sinners with a single strike?
 
(haha funny number)
4d7a6c7f7b04.png

On hod they did that for a joke
 
You better get used to remaking decks cuz in last chapter you would do that A LOT
Ruina Update: Saw the [No Going Back] notice on the next node and decided to finish all Realizations and make sure I had the most of every keypage possible.

Apocalypse Bird was an absolute nightmare and made me break my No Guides rule again, while WhiteNight was shockingly easy. On the plus side, I discovered the greatness that is Cloned Rapid Gashes Olivier.

Regrinding all the books took so much longer; basically had to redo all of Star of a City. Most annoying part was either having to kill Xiao four more freaking times just to get 3 Miris Keypages, or retrying Distorted Yan after I forgot how I beat him the first time.

Finally, I was done preparing... and Oh God you were not wrong. Just tried to get past the first reception without a Burn Team and F*ck That.
 
Read his passives. The Night Drifter was nerfed by Spreading Snake Venom in the final showdown when she killed him. Had -7 Offense and Defense Level down, making him effectively Level 63.

Also, max stats Post-Training Xichun with all passives is genuinely cracked. She goes from Level 50 to Level 60 overall, and her max Yong gives her another 7 offense levels, making her attacks effectively Level 67 (haha funny number) when she kills the Night Drifter if you get the special cutscene.
Yeah, no. Xichun was already fighting the Night Drifter for an extended period of time before he ended up getting poisoned so she would still scale to his full strength.
No because "Splitters" don't start at level 65.
Your right, it actually starts at level 60(i.e. the highest level we've seen a WAW Abnormalities can go) which Kira is 5 levels above.
 
I can sense you trying to gotcha me with this one but yeah, he is stronger than Ricardo. Cultivation Xichun is just really strong and he gets poisoned early on, and even then it is kind of tough to win clashes with him there, it's just not a total bloodbath like Ricardo.
Yeah, no. Xichun was already fighting the Night Drifter for an extended period of time before he ended up getting poisoned so she would still scale to his full strength.
My statement, actually, is that Kira and Rufo scaling to a Maestro is insane, by direct feats even if you completely ignore both levels and the simple hierarchy of Rufo being a docent rather than a Maestro.
Downscaling actually, cause again like I said earlier you can be weaker than someone and still be in the same tier. Also if we go with the notion that the WAW-ALEPH tier is for the "strongest WAWs and/or the weakest ALEPHs" then Kira fits pretty well since she's 5 levels higher than the strongest WAW's that have been encountered so far(which are all level 60).
What does that have to do with Kira making no difference despite supposedly being capable of goring sinners with a single strike?
Faust's statement is specifically referring to the fight against Rufo, with the notion being that since the Sinners are all level 60(Ricardo's level) while Rufo is just level 66 the gap in strength between the 2 parties is low enough that they could have managed just fine even without Kira's help. Nothing more nothing less.
 
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Yeah, no. Xichun was already fighting the Night Drifter for an extended period of time before he ended up getting poisoned so she would still scale to his full strength.
Okay, and? No problem with someone who's Level 67 and has a bazillion passives fighting someone who's Level 70.
Your right, it actually starts at level 60(i.e. the highest level we've seen a WAW Abnormalities can go) which Kira is 5 levels above.
Lobotomy Corp Abnos are not comparable to Limbus Company Abnos thanks to unknown Qliphoth Deterrence levels.

In Limbus, Q Deterrence is originally maxed out with the collapse of the branch facilities, which is why WAWs like Ebony Queen's Apple is originally a joke even to Canto I Sinners. As they collect Boughs, the Q Deterrence lowers, best shown in the rematch against Ebony Queen's Apple in Canto IX, where it's now Level 58.

In Lobotomy Corp, Q Deterrence is lowered to some unspecified amount for the sake of letting Abnos kill people to produce energy. We don't know by how much, nor how it compare to the Q Deterrence level of Limbus Company.

Furthermore, Abno Risk Levels as strength scaling is dubious anywho due to how [Random Bullshit Go!] Abnos are in terms of abilities, and their Risk Level is primarily an indicator of energy production levels, as stated by Hohenheim (and is backed up by the game mechanics of Lobotomy Corp. Regardless of their abilities, all Abnos of the same Risk Level produce the same amount of energy, with the sole exception of Pink Heart, which was a Donor Abno meaning it wasn't designed by Project Moon)

Finally, none of this even slightly supports Kira scaling to characters who can one-shot the Sinners. Dante canonically uses Identities in fights, and it's unknown if they spend tickets keeping base Sinners at the level cap. Kira stopping an attack that splatted base ID Don means nothing. And Sancho's stats do not scale to Don thanks to Rocinante, which is best shown in how she's not automatically Level 85 when you start the game.
 
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Downscaling actually, cause again like I said earlier you can be weaker than someone and still be in the same tier.
I cannot articulate enough that the strength gap you're proposing is in no way compatible with that. So I'll state again, with feeling, what on God's green earth allows you to be the "same tier" and block attacks that instantly gore someone you're supposed to be equal to? Because that is what you are doing right now by brushing off the fact the sinners perform at a similar level to her and insisting on scaling to that Maestro despite the character herself saying she's not going to be able to handle them.
Also if we go with the notion that the WAW-ALEPH tier is for the "strongest WAWs and/or the weakest ALEPHs" then Kira fits pretty well since she's 5 levels higher than the strongest WAW's that have been encountered so far(which are all level 60).
"So far" seems to be a very key observation you're overlooking. Nothing we're told indicates any of the WAWs we've dealt with are among the strongest in the setting at large like the Pianist was stated to be, and it'd be rather odd given we've basically just started stepping into WAW territory (At least assuming the Qliphoth Deterrence is operating at Lobotomy Corporation's standards or just isn't quite active at all like in Canto 9).
 
"So far" seems to be a very key observation you're overlooking. Nothing we're told indicates any of the WAWs we've dealt with are among the strongest in the setting at large like what something like the Pianist would be rated as, and it'd be rather odd given we've basically just started stepping into WAW territory (At least assuming the Qliphoth Deterrence is operating at Lobotomy Corporation's standards or just isn't quite active at all like in Canto 9).
Adding on to this: Alyssa's E.G.O Gear is from WAW-5 Ardor Blossom Moth, and it's gear she's so familiar using that it's basically her work uniform. It gives her a +10 Level Buff.

By contrast, Jia Huan's N Corp Gear of Spiral of Contempt (WAW-6) actually nerfs him 7 to 12 levels thanks to Volatile Attunement, probably due to his lack of familiarity with it. So Gear from stronger Abnos doesn't mean better results if you're less used to using them.

However, Hohenheim with Big Bird's Gear (+ Dimensional Refraction Variant) gives him a +15 Level Buff, despite the fact that he basically never used it since L Corp fell. Big Bird's Gear being that much atronger still makes sense though, because Big Bird is an absolute beast even by WAW Standards.
 
Okay, and? No problem with someone who's Level 67 and has a bazillion passives fighting someone who's Level 70.
I'm just saying that when I get to making Jia Xichun's profile no one should complain about me putting her in the WAW-ALEPH tier.
Lobotomy Corp Abnos are not comparable to Limbus Company Abnos thanks to unknown Qliphoth Deterrence levels.

In Limbus, Q Deterrence is originally maxed out with the collapse of the branch facilities, which is why WAWs like Ebony Queen's Apple is originally a joke even to Canto I Sinners. As they collect Boughs, the Q Deterrence lowers, best shown in the rematch against Ebony Queen's Apple in Canto IX, where it's now Level 58.

In Lobotomy Corp, Q Deterrence is lowered to some unspecified amount for the sake of letting Abnos kill people to produce energy. We don't know by how much, nor how it compare to the Q Deterrence level of Limbus Company.

Furthermore, Abno Risk Levels as strength scaling is dubious anywho due to how [Random Bullshit Go!] Abnos are in terms of abilities, and their Risk Level is primarily an indicator of energy production levels, as stated by Hohenheim (and is backed up by the game mechanics of Lobotomy Corp. Regardless of their abilities, all Abnos of the same Risk Level produce the same amount of energy, with the sole exception of Pink Heart, which was a Donor Abno meaning it wasn't designed by Project Moon)

Finally, none of this even slightly supports Kira scaling to characters who can one-shot the Sinners. Dante canonically uses Identities in fights, and it's unknown if they spend tickets keeping base Sinners at the level cap. Kira stopping an attack that splatted base ID Don means nothing. And Sancho's stats do not scale to Don thanks to Rocinante, which is best shown in how she's not automatically Level 85 when you start the game.
Yes which is why the Risk Levels have been updated to include a number right next to their tier indicating the "expected damage scale" to better determine their actual threat level. So far the strongest one's that we've seen are "My Form Empties"(WAW-8) and "King of Binds"(WAW-7) which I'd say are in fact meant to be among the stronger WAWs assuming that the "expected damage scale" doesn't go over 10.
 
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I cannot articulate enough that the strength gap you're proposing is in no way compatible with that. So I'll state again, with feeling, what on God's green earth allows you to be the "same tier" and block attacks that instantly gore someone you're supposed to be equal to? Because that is what you are doing right now by brushing off the fact the sinners perform at a similar level to her and insisting on scaling to that Maestro despite the character herself saying she's not going to be able to handle them.
If we're going with what the levels indicate then at this point in time Kira is very much stronger than all of the Sinners it's just that their numbers coupled with their access to Identities with "Offense Level Up" and/or "Defense Level Down", as well as Dante's revival mechanic lets them take on foes that are a few levels stronger than them. Plus you seem to be forgetting that Kira also has her own "Offense Level Up" via her "Grudge" mechanic.
"So far" seems to be a very key observation you're overlooking. Nothing we're told indicates any of the WAWs we've dealt with are among the strongest in the setting at large like the Pianist was stated to be, and it'd be rather odd given we've basically just started stepping into WAW territory (At least assuming the Qliphoth Deterrence is operating at Lobotomy Corporation's standards or just isn't quite active at all like in Canto 9).
We've already seen a WAW-7&8 Abnormalities and I don't think the "expected damage scale" will go over 10 so I'd say those in particalar are meant to be one of the stronger WAWs.
 
At this point just delete Kira profile because It's clear both sides are very rock-headed over this stuff tho what DMUA and Ela said are making sense to me

I also in favor of banning a profile creation until the important PM characters get their profiles first (DMUA already working with Vespa ATM)
 
I'm just saying that when I get to making Jia Xichun's profile no one should complain about me putting her in the WAW-ALEPH tier.
I'm sorry, how did we jump from "She is stronger than Ricardo" to "Yeah she can fight Color fixers", exactly?
If we're going with what the levels indicate then at this point in time Kira is very much stronger than all of the Sinners it's just that their numbers coupled with their access to Identities with "Offense Level Up" and/or "Defense Level Down", as well as Dante's revival mechanic lets them take on foes that are a few levels stronger than them. Plus you seem to be forgetting that Kira also has her own "Offense Level Up" via her "Grudge" mechanic.
Yes. What about this says she can reduce the other sinners to gore? Do you just... not have a sense of scale? In-between this and your prior statement it seems your immediate reaction to anything being stronger than another thing is that they must have the potential to be millions of times superior despite that trainwrecking all logic around most of their showings. Yes, Kira is a little stronger than the Sinners but a Clash power difference of one is still perfectly manageable (Hell, my rule of thumb as I was catching up to the story mode was that I should be 5 levels behind the recommended only), meanwhile an actual splitter in the form of Valencina has a clash power difference of over 5 and outside of getting heavily debuffed or using an EGO will never really lose a clash, much less a fight with a Sinner on raw physicals alone. Yes, Night Drifter and Xichun are stronger than Ricardo, but they're still 20 levels behind an actual Color fixer and the man in question showed us very well how someone with that strength gap can easily demolish an entire squad of enemies without even taking the fight too seriously, nowhere near implying they can at least put up a fight and maybe win with enough backup.

"WAW-ALEPH" isn't "Literally everything kind of stronger than a WAW and not as strong as an ALEPH", it's a significant superiority to WAWs to the point they can put up a fight to ALEPHs who ordinarily would demolish a WAW no trouble, and it's just kind of an awkward spot because there are also reasons to not really scale them to ALEPHs as individuals. Taking the way you do is how you end up with deranged contradictions in an already kind of weird scenario, as this whole debacle has demonstrated.
We've already seen a WAW-7&8 Abnormalities and I don't think the "expected damage scale" will go over 10 so I'd say those in particalar are meant to be one of the stronger WAWs.
Frankly if you look at the risk scales too closely they don't make any sense. Doomsday Clock is already pushing the edge of the scale despite it's minions being incredibly weak and their gimmick getting gimped if you can just kill them and start hitting it, and we're supposed to believe they're stronger/more dangerous through esoteric means than Yinglong, or even if you take it as danger scale relative to risk rating (Despite that not being stated, though it's probably what they mean and would save a lot of headaches), Der Fluchschütze?
(DMUA already working with Vespa ATM)
you're really setting yourself up for disappointment I just said the idea was on my mind again, so far I've done no real work
 
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I'm sorry, how did we jump from "She is stronger than Ricardo" to "Yeah she can fight Color fixers", exactly?
We know for a fact that Zilu(who is level 75) can fight against Lei Heng(who is level 83). With that said, if the WAW-ALEPH tier doesn't start at level 60 then it would most certainly start at level 70(i.e. the level of the Night Drifter when he fights Jia Xichun).
Yes. What about this says she can reduce the other sinners to gore? Do you just... not have a sense of scale? In-between this and your prior statement it seems your immediate reaction to anything being stronger than another thing is that they must have the potential to be millions of times superior despite that trainwrecking all logic around most of their showings. Yes, Kira is a little stronger than the Sinners but a Clash power difference of one is still perfectly manageable (Hell, my rule of thumb as I was catching up to the story mode was that I should be 5 levels behind the recommended only), meanwhile an actual splitter in the form of Valencina has a clash power difference of over 5 and outside of getting heavily debuffed or using an EGO will never really lose a clash, much less a fight with a Sinner on raw physicals alone. Yes, Night Drifter and Xichun are stronger than Ricardo, but they're still 20 levels behind an actual Color fixer and the man in question showed us very well how someone with that strength gap can easily demolish an entire squad of enemies without even taking the fight too seriously, nowhere near implying they can at least put up a fight and maybe win with enough backup.
You seem to be confusing what I said about the Ring Maestro with that of Kira. What I specifically said was that the Ring Maestro is capable of goring the Sinners(as evidenced by Don Quixote) so the fact that Kira herself didn't get mulched by a direct hit implies that there is enough relativity for her to downscale to the WAW-ALEPH tier nothing more nothing less. Plus it literally says in the Scaling Aid that the WAW-ALEPH tier are for those who and I quote "downscales from stronger characters, as those in this category are still able to harm and threaten the likes of Color Fixers despite explicitly being weaker." which is true for Kira
"WAW-ALEPH" isn't "Literally everything kind of stronger than a WAW and not as strong as an ALEPH", it's a significant superiority to WAWs to the point they can put up a fight to ALEPHs who ordinarily would demolish a WAW no trouble, and it's just kind of an awkward spot because there are also reasons to not really scale them to ALEPHs as individuals. Taking the way you do is how you end up with deranged contradictions in an already kind of weird scenario, as this whole debacle has demonstrated.
I don't think here aren't any actual contradictions here. There is already precedent for lower-ranked/leveled characters being able to contend with higher ranked/leveled ones.
Frankly if you look at the risk scales too closely they don't make any sense. Doomsday Clock is already pushing the edge of the scale despite it's minions being incredibly weak and their gimmick getting gimped if you can just kill them and start hitting it, and we're supposed to believe they're stronger and more dangerous than Yinglong? That when Alephs show up a majority of them would likely be small fry compared to that?
Isn't that because the Doomsday Calendar is capable of instantly killing the Sinners while the Yinglong can't?
 
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At this point just delete Kira profile because It's clear both sides are very rock-headed over this stuff tho what DMUA and Ela said are making sense to me

I also in favor of banning a profile creation until the important PM characters get their profiles first (DMUA already working with Vespa ATM)
Does he? Cause it seems to me like DMUA's assertions are just arguments of incredulity and nothing more.
 
We know for a fact that Zilu(who is level 75) can fight against Lei Heng(who is level 83).
Chainscaling along those lines is definitely going to make this more confusing with the lines being as blurry as they are. Let's continue this train of logic: If a level 75 can fight against a level 83, then a level 70 would be able to fight them, so would a level 65 to a level 70... Except a level 65 in the form of Albina got horrifyingly mauled by a level 80, so what business do they have scaling to a Level 90 through a level 83 through a level 75 to 70?
With that said, if the WAW-ALEPH tier doesn't start at level 60 then it would most certainly start at level 70(i.e. the level of the Night Drifter when he fights Jia Xichun).
So you're just electing to ignore what Ricardo told us about a 20 level gap, then?
You seem to be confusing what I said about the Ring Maestro with that of Kira. What I specifically said was that the Ring Maestro is capable of goring the Sinners(as evidenced by Don Quixote) so the fact that Kira herself didn't get mulched by a direct hit implies that there is enough relativity for her to downscale to the WAW-ALEPH tier nothing more nothing less.
Let me highlight some things for you.
What I specifically said was that the Ring Maestro is capable of goring the Sinners(as evidenced by Don Quixote)
Kira herself didn't get mulched by a direct hit
These two statements, put together, means Kira is strong enough to match a blow that would gore the sinners. This, logically, means they are powerful enough to gore the sinners with one of her own blows. That never happens whenever Kira fights the Sinners or foes they're capable of managing. Heck, why are you still even on this when you shifted to saying stuff about level scaling, which would directly render this moot as yes, the apprentices are all in fact equals and have significant anti-feats to being comparable to Colors?
Plus it literally says in the Scaling Aid that the WAW-ALEPH tier are for those who and I quote "downscales from stronger characters, as those in this category are still able to harm and threaten the likes of Color Fixers despite explicitly being weaker." which is true for Kira
There is no earth on which Kira can harm and threaten the likes of a Color Fixer. Again, her one thing against Vespa was momentarily distracting him. Not trying to land an actual blow to weaken him despite being completely undetectable at the time and nothing really stopping her from just knifing him in an organ and backing off, she just momentarily made him defend himself by reflex so Matthias could maybe get a shot off.
Isn't that because the Doomsday Calendar is capable of instantly killing the Sinners while the Ynglong can't?
I guess that's the idea but it's a bit like having the keys to fire a nuclear bomb while someone's pointing a gun at your head, in practice it's almost impossible for them to really manage it compared to something like My Form Empties (who inofthemselves is still quite manageable and I think its gimmick has only taken out a sinner of mine once), or Der Fluchschütze who can just summon a set of minions that he can use to nuke your whole team if you don't get on top of it fast enough (as in, within that very same turn rather than the several Doomsday Clock gives you)
Does he? Cause it seems to me like DMUA's assertions are just arguments of incredulity and nothing more.
Name a person in this conversation who's taken your side.

Incredulity, the unwillingness to believe in something, is a healthy thing when you're faced with something unbelievable, and everyone else has exercised this integral part of human understanding against you. If you want to deny 4 separate people disbelieving your claims... I'm sorry, but that's willful ignorance. As a great philosopher once said, that is a true evil.
 
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Does he? Cause it seems to me like DMUA's assertions are just arguments of incredulity and nothing more.
Thing is you always goes "nu uh" on DMUA arguments and that make you looks bad in my views
I sure do see that some of your arguments does making sense but still, most of the time you just went bickering to him
 
Thing is you always goes "nu uh" on DMUA arguments and that make you looks bad in my views
I sure do see that some of your arguments does making sense but still, most of the time you just went bickering to him
That seems a little disingenuous as I am elaborating on my reasoning and not just saying "nu uh"
 
Chainscaling along those lines is definitely going to make this more confusing with the lines being as blurry as they are. Let's continue this train of logic: If a level 75 can fight against a level 83, then a level 70 would be able to fight them, so would a level 65 to a level 70... Except a level 65 in the form of Albina got horrifyingly mauled by a level 80, so what business do they have scaling to a Level 90 through a level 83 through a level 75 to 70?
Kira can gain up to +10 Offense Level Up, so while she's technically level 65 she can bridge the strength gap to be able to fight against those who are level 75. The same is true for Xichun since she has multiple passives that can give her Offense Level Up and Defense Level Up.
So you're just electing to ignore what Ricardo told us about a 20 level gap, then?
All Ricardo said was that Zilu was strong he didn't say anything that would imply that he wouldn't be able to fight back
Let me highlight some things for you.


These two statements, put together, means Kira is strong enough to match a blow that would gore the sinners. This, logically, means they are powerful enough to gore the sinners with one of her own blows. That never happens whenever Kira fights the Sinners or foes they're capable of managing. Heck, why are you still even on this when you shifted to saying stuff about level scaling, which would directly render this moot as yes, the apprentices are all in fact equals and have significant anti-feats to being comparable to Colors?
Uh no. The Sinners have access to multiple Identities with Offense Level Up/Defense Level Up/Offense Level Down/Defense Level Down so while Kira(and the apprentices in general) are still stronger than the Sinners they have multiple ways to bridge the gap in strength much like Kira herself.
There is no earth on which Kira can harm and threaten the likes of a Color Fixer. Again, her one thing against Vespa was momentarily distracting him. Not trying to land an actual blow to weaken him despite being completely undetectable at the time and nothing really stopping her from just knifing him in an organ and backing off, she just momentarily made him defend himself by reflex so Matthias could maybe get a shot off.
She also had to hold him in place since otherwise he could have just dodged Matthias' attack.
I guess that's the idea but it's a bit like having the keys to fire a nuclear bomb while someone's pointing a gun at your head, in practice it's almost impossible for them to really manage it compared to something like My Form Empties (who inofthemselves is still quite manageable and I think its gimmick has only taken out a sinner of mine once), or Der Fluchschütze who can just summon a set of minions that he can use to nuke your whole team if you don't get on top of it fast enough (as in, within that very same turn rather than the several Doomsday Clock gives you)
Either way I'd say my point still stands
Name a person in this conversation who's taken your side.
I'm pretty sure this is an "argument of popularity" fallacy.
Incredulity, the unwillingness to believe in something, is a healthy thing when you're faced with something unbelievable, and everyone else has exercised this integral part of human understanding against you. If you want to deny 4 separate people disbelieving your claims... I'm sorry, but that's willful ignorance. As a great philosopher once said, that is a true evil.
Well as I explained above there is nothing unbelievable about Kira's scaling here since she has the means to match against those who are around level 70.
 
I'm pretty sure this is an "argument of popularity" fallacy.
It's a real tragedy that the feeling of being told you're wrong because you're wrong and everyone else is right, and the feeling of being told you're wrong because you're right and everyone else is wrong, feel the exact same.

Here's the thing, I'm not supporting DMUA because more people were already agreeing with them, I'm supporting DMUA I also have reasons to think you're wrong that I thought of independently of them.
Well as I explained above there is nothing unbelievable about Kira's scaling here since she has the means to match against those who are around level 70.
Level 70 isn't where splitters start either. (Level 70 is the realm of 3rd Kindred) And before you bring up Ezra or Valencina, the latter is Level 77 and specifically has a Relic that lets her almost only hit weak spots, plus a family heirloom and a fighting style specifically tailored to beating people in duels. And even then Vergilius never bothered popping EGO, which would make him steamroll over the Eye of Precognition in terms of numbers. Meanwhile the former is Level 75 and has an ungodly large array of powerful Workshop Gear to choose from when she has all of her equipment, plus Shin when buffed by Moses. Without her good stuff on hand + buffs, she was useless against Matthias in their first encounter.

There is a significant difference between "Can reach 75 Offense Level at hypothetical max conditionals which realistically never happens" and "Starts at Level 75, and has a metric butt-ton of tools within and beyond her kit which amplify her further." You're basically saying "Super Saiyan Bingus can match base Snart, and Super Saiyan Snart can match Majin Glue, therefore Super Saiyan Bingus can match Majin Glue."
 
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