Project Moon Discussion 2

[ElajRuengies]

Oh ok. So is it safe to say that there's no problem with Jia Xichun also being a scaled to splitters as well?

Read his passives. The Night Drifter was nerfed by Spreading Snake Venom in the final showdown when she killed him. Had -7 Offense and Defense Level down, making him effectively Level 63.

Also, max stats Post-Training Xichun with all passives is genuinely cracked. She goes from Level 50 to Level 60 overall, and her max Yong gives her another 7 offense levels, making her attacks effectively Level 67 (haha funny number) when she kills the Night Drifter if you get the special cutscene.

Well if we're so set on following the levels then isn't that all the more justification for Kira to scale to the WAW-ALEPH tier? Since she's 5 levels above the Sinners and just 1 level below Rufo, on top of her being previously shown to be capable of clashing head-on with a Ring Maestro.

No because "Splitters" don't start at level 65.

 

[AthelChan]

Thirding this.

no profiles until roland from allusions has one

 

[DMUA]

So your saying that you agree with the Night Drifter being stronger than Ricardo then?

I can sense you trying to gotcha me with this one but yeah, he is stronger than Ricardo. Cultivation Xichun is just really strong and he gets poisoned early on, and even then it is kind of tough to win clashes with him there, it's just not a total bloodbath like Ricardo.

Also Kira is literally 1 level lower than Rufo. Are you seriously saying that that's enough for her to not scale to her?

My statement, actually, is that Kira and Rufo scaling to a Maestro is insane, by direct feats even if you completely ignore both levels and the simple hierarchy of Rufo being a docent rather than a Maestro.

Have you considered the possibility that the reason she said that is because the Sinners are all supposed to be in Ricardo's level at this point in the story?

What does that have to do with Kira making no difference despite supposedly being capable of goring sinners with a single strike?

 

[Ubdon]

(haha funny number)

On hod they did that for a joke

 

[ElajRuengies]

You better get used to remaking decks cuz in last chapter you would do that A LOT

Ruina Update: Saw the [No Going Back] notice on the next node and decided to finish all Realizations and make sure I had the most of every keypage possible.

Apocalypse Bird was an absolute nightmare and made me break my No Guides rule again, while WhiteNight was shockingly easy. On the plus side, I discovered the greatness that is Cloned Rapid Gashes Olivier.

Regrinding all the books took so much longer; basically had to redo all of Star of a City. Most annoying part was either having to kill Xiao four more freaking times just to get 3 Miris Keypages, or retrying Distorted Yan after I forgot how I beat him the first time.

Finally, I was done preparing... and Oh God you were not wrong. Just tried to get past the first reception without a Burn Team and F*ck That.

 

[MysticBrawler]

Read his passives. The Night Drifter was nerfed by Spreading Snake Venom in the final showdown when she killed him. Had -7 Offense and Defense Level down, making him effectively Level 63.

Also, max stats Post-Training Xichun with all passives is genuinely cracked. She goes from Level 50 to Level 60 overall, and her max Yong gives her another 7 offense levels, making her attacks effectively Level 67 (haha funny number) when she kills the Night Drifter if you get the special cutscene.

Yeah, no. Xichun was already fighting the Night Drifter for an extended period of time before he ended up getting poisoned so she would still scale to his full strength.

No because "Splitters" don't start at level 65.

Your right, it actually starts at level 60(i.e. the highest level we've seen a WAW Abnormalities can go) which Kira is 5 levels above.

 

[MysticBrawler]

I can sense you trying to gotcha me with this one but yeah, he is stronger than Ricardo. Cultivation Xichun is just really strong and he gets poisoned early on, and even then it is kind of tough to win clashes with him there, it's just not a total bloodbath like Ricardo.

Yeah, no. Xichun was already fighting the Night Drifter for an extended period of time before he ended up getting poisoned so she would still scale to his full strength.

My statement, actually, is that Kira and Rufo scaling to a Maestro is insane, by direct feats even if you completely ignore both levels and the simple hierarchy of Rufo being a docent rather than a Maestro.

Downscaling actually, cause again like I said earlier you can be weaker than someone and still be in the same tier. Also if we go with the notion that the WAW-ALEPH tier is for the "strongest WAWs and/or the weakest ALEPHs" then Kira fits pretty well since she's 5 levels higher than the strongest WAW's that have been encountered so far(which are all level 60).

What does that have to do with Kira making no difference despite supposedly being capable of goring sinners with a single strike?

Faust's statement is specifically referring to the fight against Rufo, with the notion being that since the Sinners are all level 60(Ricardo's level) while Rufo is just level 66 the gap in strength between the 2 parties is low enough that they could have managed just fine even without Kira's help. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[ElajRuengies]

Yeah, no. Xichun was already fighting the Night Drifter for an extended period of time before he ended up getting poisoned so she would still scale to his full strength.

Okay, and? No problem with someone who's Level 67 and has a bazillion passives fighting someone who's Level 70.

Your right, it actually starts at level 60(i.e. the highest level we've seen a WAW Abnormalities can go) which Kira is 5 levels above.

Lobotomy Corp Abnos are not comparable to Limbus Company Abnos thanks to unknown Qliphoth Deterrence levels.

In Limbus, Q Deterrence is originally maxed out with the collapse of the branch facilities, which is why WAWs like Ebony Queen's Apple is originally a joke even to Canto I Sinners. As they collect Boughs, the Q Deterrence lowers, best shown in the rematch against Ebony Queen's Apple in Canto IX, where it's now Level 58.

In Lobotomy Corp, Q Deterrence is lowered to some unspecified amount for the sake of letting Abnos kill people to produce energy. We don't know by how much, nor how it compare to the Q Deterrence level of Limbus Company.

Furthermore, Abno Risk Levels as strength scaling is dubious anywho due to how [Random Bullshit Go!] Abnos are in terms of abilities, and their Risk Level is primarily an indicator of energy production levels, as stated by Hohenheim (and is backed up by the game mechanics of Lobotomy Corp. Regardless of their abilities, all Abnos of the same Risk Level produce the same amount of energy, with the sole exception of Pink Heart, which was a Donor Abno meaning it wasn't designed by Project Moon)

Finally, none of this even slightly supports Kira scaling to characters who can one-shot the Sinners. Dante canonically uses Identities in fights, and it's unknown if they spend tickets keeping base Sinners at the level cap. Kira stopping an attack that splatted base ID Don means nothing. And Sancho's stats do not scale to Don thanks to Rocinante, which is best shown in how she's not automatically Level 85 when you start the game.

 

[DMUA]

Downscaling actually, cause again like I said earlier you can be weaker than someone and still be in the same tier.

I cannot articulate enough that the strength gap you're proposing is in no way compatible with that. So I'll state again, with feeling, what on God's green earth allows you to be the "same tier" and block attacks that instantly gore someone you're supposed to be equal to? Because that is what you are doing right now by brushing off the fact the sinners perform at a similar level to her and insisting on scaling to that Maestro despite the character herself saying she's not going to be able to handle them.

Also if we go with the notion that the WAW-ALEPH tier is for the "strongest WAWs and/or the weakest ALEPHs" then Kira fits pretty well since she's 5 levels higher than the strongest WAW's that have been encountered so far(which are all level 60).

"So far" seems to be a very key observation you're overlooking. Nothing we're told indicates any of the WAWs we've dealt with are among the strongest in the setting at large like the Pianist was stated to be, and it'd be rather odd given we've basically just started stepping into WAW territory (At least assuming the Qliphoth Deterrence is operating at Lobotomy Corporation's standards or just isn't quite active at all like in Canto 9).

 

[ElajRuengies]

"So far" seems to be a very key observation you're overlooking. Nothing we're told indicates any of the WAWs we've dealt with are among the strongest in the setting at large like what something like the Pianist would be rated as, and it'd be rather odd given we've basically just started stepping into WAW territory (At least assuming the Qliphoth Deterrence is operating at Lobotomy Corporation's standards or just isn't quite active at all like in Canto 9).

Adding on to this: Alyssa's E.G.O Gear is from WAW-5 Ardor Blossom Moth, and it's gear she's so familiar using that it's basically her work uniform. It gives her a +10 Level Buff.

By contrast, Jia Huan's N Corp Gear of Spiral of Contempt (WAW-6) actually nerfs him 7 to 12 levels thanks to Volatile Attunement, probably due to his lack of familiarity with it. So Gear from stronger Abnos doesn't mean better results if you're less used to using them.

However, Hohenheim with Big Bird's Gear (+ Dimensional Refraction Variant) gives him a +15 Level Buff, despite the fact that he basically never used it since L Corp fell. Big Bird's Gear being that much atronger still makes sense though, because Big Bird is an absolute beast even by WAW Standards.