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Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

Cassette95 said:
Based her reaction to Sena coming from beyond the barrier, and her musing that leaving was possible because of it, it couldn't have been after Marah left.


The AI she made certainly did.

>"I used the same methods I used on the Cocoon of Finality." That is what Prometheus said, and the semantics are kinda irrelevant because we know for a fact she affected the Cocoon. She couldn't have handed Kevin the authority of Finality if she did not.
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All of the Part 1 stuff is very different to this. A lot of it in 32-EX, which I inherently trust more as the bubble world Prometheus hadn't done allat.
Cassette95 said:
Does any of that specific glaze contradict Marah?
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I'm not sure off the top of my head without the text in front of me. My issue is she's comparing a barrier to the CoF - That barrier could either be the Cocoon's around the solar system (don't know if it exists) or an Intertidal Zone, which is an outlier because even people like Hare and Marah can travel through it.
Cassette95 said:
Mars explicitly had cycles did it not? The Cocoon always leaves eventually anyway.
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Yeah Mars had cycles. It just left cause it got bored, or something.
Cassette95 said:
Because she was equal to the Cocoon, which clearly was transcendent a billion years ago and 250m years ago. I mean that same exact chapter where that was posited maintained the the Cocoon isn't what governs the Sea and Kiana the very next chapter says she can't do anything about Sa until she either emerges into the proper world, or the bubble universe is brought close to the proper world. Does she now join the list of people who aren't credible because she isn't glazing?
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Gonna be honest, it is definitely strange. Kiana holds magnitudes more power, at least, and even characters like Seele, Veliona and Durandal can easily navigate the Sea of Quanta. There's no reason why she shouldn't be able to do so. Isn't it also stated that Kiana would be capable of bringing the bubble world close to the proper world, in the stuff surrounding the transcend dimensions line?
Cassette95 said:
My issue is people filling those gaps.
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Yeah that's fine, but when there's a gap people are always gonna try fit stuff in. That's the fun part of scaling and theorising.
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
Where do you scale the cocoon now
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I think the way the statements cash it out, at least thematically so, is that anything bound by Samsara (so that is anything with Origin and Finality, so anything in Time) is what the Cocoon has Authority over. But this only applies in fact to the proper world. If it is indeed the case (as I suspect) that Imaginary Space is Primordial Chaos (so it has no Beginning and End), then it is very naturally exempt from that process and not under the Cocoon’s governance. Which also makes sense, since time flows inside the Tree, rather than governing the Tree.

It also explains the Cocoon being a constant inside the Imaginary Space and it lacking authority over the SoQ. It also explains it absorbing Imaginary Energy and a slew of other stuff.

Though, this might be a way into upscaling the verse somehow. So I wouldn’t take it as a bad thing inherently.
 
PlungingThroughTime said:
All of the Part 1 stuff is very different to this. A lot of it in 32-EX, which I inherently trust more as the bubble world Prometheus hadn't done allat.
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The Cocoon of Finality wasn't even introduced as a concept yet at this point.
PlungingThroughTime said:
I'm not sure off the top of my head without the text in front of me.
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Trust me bro it doesn't exist. Don't trouble yourself.

PlungingThroughTime said:
My issue is she's comparing a barrier to the CoF - That barrier could either be the Cocoon's around the solar system (don't know if it exists) or an Intertidal Zone, which is an outlier because even people like Hare and Marah can travel through it.
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There was no ambiguity. She was explicitly referring to the intertidal zones, and the fact that it is naturally occurring, not governed by the Cocoon, and the fact that the Cocoon's influence does not reach that far are all hard confirmed facts, corroborated by Sa and Griseo and actual plot points. For goodness sake, the Cocoons own Honkai beats gained independence from it thanks to a combination of distance from the sun and close proximity to the barrier, and Sa literally could not have implanted rules if she was within the Cocoon's domain.

Btw, Misteln never went through it and Marah left through a Star Gate, something Sa could not do because she had expanded too much from the Sea's energy.
PlungingThroughTime said:
Yeah Mars had cycles. It just left cause it got bored, or something.

Gonna be honest, it is definitely strange. Kiana holds magnitudes more power, at least, and even characters like Seele, Veliona and Durandal can easily navigate the Sea of Quanta. There's no reason why she shouldn't be able to do so.
Click to expand...
This isn't a matter of power but authority. Its like saying that since the US president is the most powerful man in the world, that he should logically be able to implement laws in Canada, and then using US citizens crossing the border to back it up. The Cocoon simply does not govern the Sea. Its not its domain.

PlungingThroughTime said:
Isn't it also stated that Kiana would be capable of bringing the bubble world close to the proper world, in the stuff surrounding the transcend dimensions line?
Click to expand...
No. That line is specifically about anchoring the bubble world. Bringing the bubble world closer to the proper world was one of the prerequisites needed for Kiana to do the anchoring in the first place, but she is not the one who does that. It was ultimately dependent on on several factors, including the passage Misteln built that linked the bubble world to the proper world.

As we know, Vita snitched so Sa destroyed that passage, so Kiana didn't get to actually do anything or live up to visual of holding the bubble universes. Instead she did literally nothing at all and stayed doing nothing until Sa emerged in the proper world because once again... the Cocoon does not govern the sea.

If Kiana actually had authority there, then this convoluted mess of a plan contingent on passages, anchors, the sages authority, and the tower would not have been necessary. The bubble worlds were only unstable because of Sa's rules, so Kiana would've simply implanted her own rule to supersede Sa's and call it a day.
PlungingThroughTime said:
Yeah that's fine, but when there's a gap people are always gonna try fit stuff in. That's the fun part of scaling and theorising.
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Would not be spamming paragraphs over theories bro. People treat 100% conjured stuff about the barrier as if it was fact... while also pretending the actual factual information isn't.
 
Cassette95 said:
The Cocoon of Finality wasn't even introduced as a concept yet at this point.
Click to expand...
Yea it was lol. DR. MEI talks about it in this chapter. 31-EX. (32-EX was a misremembering)
Cassette95 said:
There was no ambiguity. She was explicitly referring to the intertidal zones, and the fact that it is naturally occurring, not governed by the Cocoon, and the fact that the Cocoon's influence does not reach that far are all hard confirmed facts, corroborated by Sa and Griseo and actual plot points. For goodness sake, the Cocoons own Honkai beats gained independence from it thanks to a combination of distance from the sun and close proximity to the barrier, and Sa literally could not have implanted rules if she was within the Cocoon's domain.
Click to expand...
The Cocoon doesn't gaf about stuff outside of it. Honkai Beasts are also literally the cocoon's senses in C35.
Cassette95 said:
Btw, Misteln never went through it and Marah left through a Star Gate, something Sa could not do because she had expanded too much from the Sea's energy.
Click to expand...
f51e3485782b.png

Cassette95 said:
This isn't a matter of power but authority. Its like saying that since the US president is the most powerful man in the world, that he should logically be able to implement laws in Canada, and then using US citizens crossing the border to back it up. The Cocoon simply does not govern the Sea. Its not its domain.
Click to expand...
Sure
Cassette95 said:
No. That line is specifically about anchoring the bubble world. Bringing the bubble world closer to the proper world was one of the prerequisites needed for Kiana to do the anchoring in the first place, but she is not the one who does that. It was ultimately dependent on on several factors, including the passage Misteln built that linked the bubble world to the proper world.

As we know, Vita snitched so Sa destroyed that passage, so Kiana didn't get to actually do anything or live up to visual of holding the bubble universes. Instead she did literally nothing at all and stayed doing nothing until Sa emerged in the proper world because once again... the Cocoon does not govern the sea.

If Kiana actually had authority there, then this convoluted mess of a plan contingent on passages, anchors, the sages authority, and the tower would not have been necessary. The bubble worlds were only unstable because of Sa's rules, so Kiana would've simply implanted her own rule to supersede Sa's and call it a day.
Click to expand...
I need to go through like everything from 31-EX to 42 because so much nonsense happens icl. Project Stigma.
 
40-42 was way less boring than the seele stuff chapters were much shorter but more enjoyable and i liked most of the characters more (senti is still goated)

Sa is a ******* bum tho
 
PlungingThroughTime said:
Yea it was lol. DR. MEI talks about it in this chapter. 31-EX. (32-EX was a misremembering)
Click to expand...
She certainly yaps about Finality a lot but the concept of the Cocoon? I don't think so.
PlungingThroughTime said:
The Cocoon doesn't gaf about stuff outside of it.
Click to expand...
See the problem here is that it does what Kiana wants to do, "mirror that reflect her" and "embrances how she wants to embrance" and all that. So if Kiana can't do something that she definitely wants to do and says she can't do something, its safe to assume its an inability rather than indifference.

PlungingThroughTime said:
Honkai Beasts are also literally the cocoon's senses in C35.
Click to expand...
Precisely why its so significant that the tidal zone can do that.

PlungingThroughTime said:
f51e3485782b.png
Click to expand...

Despite the grandiose wording, and even Griseo going on about "navigating the stars" and whatnot, I'm fairly certain she's still just travelling to the intertidal zone to collect energy, rather than beyond it, which I guess is context that depends on playing the full chapter. This same chapter established that the tidal zone was an inexhaustible source of energy that Sa used to sustain Phosphorus, and Griseo even frames what Misteln was doing as what Sa originally made Vita do: going back and forth to collect and deliver the energy to Phosphorus.

Misteln going past it isn't even the problem considering the nature of her existence, as she made a point of gloating that she was no longer physical but digital to Vita. Its the fact that Griseo offered to help, and even do the energy collection by herself as soon as her ship was fixed. That can't be a "beyond the system" thing when her ship can't leave it. Not a hill I'll die on though cause I'm arguing its not special compared to the others, not that it blocks everything.
PlungingThroughTime said:
I need to go through like everything from 31-EX to 42 because so much nonsense happens icl. Project Stigma.
Click to expand...
By all means
 
PedjaTarzan said:
ill be honest i never touched captain verse outside that theresa event which i forgot lol what are his feats and scaling i could hire @Mbpoops to do it
Click to expand...
Trying to burn countless world bubbles ether anchors using a connection to countless Theresas to create some kind of a protective platform that connected a singular world back to the Imaginary Tree and save it from extinction within the Sea of Quanta. Captain defeated Ferryman, who did that while Ferryman also created some kind of world named Perfection just in order to fight the captain.

And also having the longest combat experience in HI3rd as Noah, who saved countless worlds in the SoQ.
 
From the Aeon Physiology page.

I don't see how it'd qualify as Low Godly regen as they aren't destroyed on that level/regenerated from those ideas, just regen from dismemberment and damages that have CM2

If that's the case where my Low Godly regen God of War characters?
 
Cassette95 said:
She certainly yaps about Finality a lot but the concept of the Cocoon? I don't think so.
Click to expand...
It's actually earliest mentioned in Chapter 32, so it's likely they had the Cocoon idea already underway. Just check dialogue archives.
Cassette95 said:
See the problem here is that it does what Kiana wants to do, "mirror that reflect her" and "embrances how she wants to embrance" and all that. So if Kiana can't do something that she definitely wants to do and says she can't do something, its safe to assume its an inability rather than indifference.
Click to expand...
I think that's more how the Cocoon treats the Earth.
Cassette95 said:
Despite the grandiose wording, and even Griseo going on about "navigating the stars" and whatnot, I'm fairly certain she's still just travelling to the intertidal zone to collect energy, rather than beyond it, which I guess is context that depends on playing the full chapter. This same chapter established that the tidal zone was an inexhaustible source of energy that Sa used to sustain Phosphorus, and Griseo even frames what Misteln was doing as what Sa originally made Vita do: going back and forth to collect and deliver the energy to Phosphorus.

Misteln going past it isn't even the problem considering the nature of her existence, as she made a point of gloating that she was no longer physical but digital to Vita. Its the fact that Griseo offered to help, and even do the energy collection by herself as soon as her ship was fixed. That can't be a "beyond the system" thing when her ship can't leave it. Not a hill I'll die on though cause I'm arguing its not special compared to the others, not that it blocks everything.
Click to expand...
She's at least in the tidal zone, amidst makes this pretty obvious. You've made your points in theory and said what you do / don't like but I don't really intend on continuing this since without scans it's gonna go nowhere.
Also, even if digital, which I'm pretty sure Misteln isn't, a form isn't a digital thing, a digital thing would still be destroyed by your average tidal zone. It's a rather irrelevant point.
 
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