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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

Also I would like to point out, other heroes being able to take out AFO literally damps the tension of Kamino Ward showdown. The narrative stakes here were literally, "If All Might loses they are all ******* dead, Izuku will lose his quirk and it will be genuinely over for Japan."

Btw Shoto who at this point is considered stronger than most pro heroes was literally hyperventilating from fear of being near AFO. It literally makes a point with showing AFO treat other heroes as pests while chatting with All Might.
 
I'll just point out that there isn't any significant inconsistencies between how Kamino AFO and Gunga AFO were portrayed. This isn't from a powerscaling perspective but something anyone can observe.

  • Kamino AFO one-shots multiple heroes with an Air Cannon. This isn't too crazy as most of these characters aren't really All Might level, and it was almost surprise attack, and it didn't kill anyone. Best Jeanist is scaled to 6-B only for surviving an attack of that caliber whilst being unable to formally fight afterwards. He gets one-shot by a concentrated Air Cannon.
  • Kamino AFO struggled against the team of Endeavor and Edgeshot and failed to kill them. Most people's impression is that he low-diffed them but the way he moves in Kamino and in Gunga aren't really any different. Weakened AFO fights almost stationary, making only the most necessary movements.
  • Hence, why Kamino AFO needed to use a large-scale Air Cannon to fend off Edgeshot and Endeavor, which did 0 damage to them. Its purpose was to BFR them so he can focus on All Might. It should be noted that Endeavor wasn't even using Flashfire Fist (possibly because Horikoshi hadn't came up with it yet) and Hellflame was already matching Air Cannon.
  • So it comes to no surprise that Gunga AFO modifies his strategy against Endeavor and no longer spams Air Cannon against him, using it against Hawks instead. He strategizes based on exploiting Endeavor's weaknesses.
This isn't inconsistent with All For One being narratively an overwhelming threat in Kamino.
Much like how Gunga AFO still had the edge over a stronger Endeavor and nerfed Hawks, and was only defeated with the help of Jiro, Dark Shadow, and his Quirks rebelling against him.
Kamino AFO probably would've won against Endeavor and Edgeshot after killing All Might. Maybe not as exaggerated as "kill everyone and take Deku's Quirk" but he had the advantage due to having less weaknesses and no solid strategy against him.

In order to build a coherent narrative, a story has to write elements that support it. Fans mistake Kamino AFO's overwhelming aura farming and being the strongest character bar All Might to mean he just solos no-diffs everyone else. If he can do that he would've done so with Edgeshot and Endeavor like he did against Jeanist, Lady, and Orca.

Let alone the fact that Deku, Shoto, and the others overcame that "fear aura" anyways. Stain had similar petrifying aura (albeit weaker than AFO's) that can freeze people, even the likes of Endeavor who can fold him like laundry.
AFO's death aura was certainly a show of power but it isn't a definitive proof of anything.
 
How do i get around my friend saying vs wiki ranting of deku is correct but deku using 45% Not 100% which he says is low balling him on the wiki. He thinks deku using 100% and more with fajin gear shift because his gear breaks like the second user says when he uses black whip overlay. But before that it doesnt
 
Last edited:
57Dev said:
Also I would like to point out, other heroes being able to take out AFO literally damps the tension of Kamino Ward showdown. The narrative stakes here were literally, "If All Might loses they are all ******* dead, Izuku will lose his quirk and it will be genuinely over for Japan."

Btw Shoto who at this point is considered stronger than most pro heroes was literally hyperventilating from fear of being near AFO. It literally makes a point with showing AFO treat other heroes as pests while chatting with All Might.
Click to expand...
In final fight he was weaken by like jiro etc
 
I know this doesn’t change his scaling… but do yall think it’s safe to say Prime/rewind AFO had to have been physically stronger than Tomura during the first war based on the fact that he could endure the amount of quirks he had?
Tomura’s body began bursting apart because it physically could not handle the amount of quirks he had, just like Deku with OFA. So technically AFO would have had to been physically stronger than that Tomura, without the use of quirks, in order to hold that many.
 
BiggestOpp said:
I know this doesn’t change his scaling… but do yall think it’s safe to say Prime/rewind AFO had to have been physically stronger than Tomura during the first war based on the fact that he could endure the amount of quirks he had?
Tomura’s body began bursting apart because it physically could not handle the amount of quirks he had, just like Deku with OFA. So technically AFO would have had to been physically stronger than that Tomura, without the use of quirks, in order to hold that many.
Click to expand...
No because tomura was stated to be prime might level in first war arc with no quirks. So they would be equals or tomura probs stronger due to evolution
 
Kinggg121132 said:
No because tomura was stated to be prime might level in first war arc with no quirks. So they would be equals or tomura probs stronger due to evolution
Click to expand...
I don’t really like that belief tbh.
Doctor directly tells us Tomura is “not quite on par” with All Might.
Endeavor says he’s on par with AM. Aizawa compares him to the USJ Nomu.
Seems like Tomura ATP was on par with weakened All Might, with the doctor saying he’s not on par with PAM.

All Might also says Tomura only surpassed Kamino AFO during his fight with SnS.
 
Possibly? I know for a fact Completed Shiggy is on PAM’s level. Jeanist says it, and Horikoshi directly wrote such in the Hawks Villain Report. ShigAFO also thought he was around that level too, though his judgement ability obviously isn’t full proof based on context.

Considering what the level of upper tier Nomu can do, (High Ends > USJ Nomu, Hood > All Previous, Near High-Ends are ~ Hood), the fact that Shigaraki is a perfected Nomu, and that USJ’a is close to Weakened AM, (making that the glass floor of Shigaraki’s stats), it’s likely what Garaki means in that moment is that Shigaraki whilst Incomplete he isn’t Prime AM level, and AFO/AM is observing he becomes that level when Shigaraki is Completed.

I dunno if that's full proof scaling for AFO though
 
vsbattles.com

Broken Heroes: Deku vs Che Heart

Finally out of CRT limbo Both characters are 6-B Deku in Final War key at 18.65 Teratons Che in Season 3 Second Half key at 23.2 Teratons Anything above 6-B is restricted Speed is equalized Starting distance: 100m The Rod of Men: The Greatest Hero: Both get slimed out:
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
I think you’re next should be viewed as good 45% deku scaling movie reaffirms previous scaling. 45% deku kick on impact in s6 can injure tomura’s stomach. Now a 45% full cowl deku with more quirks can beat a weaken all might level opponent. I feel like dark might ship feat probably just makes 45% scaling better
 
BiggestOpp said:
I like how all the heroes appeared at the end for a “we are here” moment without knowing AFO was missing Decay. What if he just touched the ground there
Click to expand...
I’m pretty sure they don’t even know it’s All For One until after the battle. But that didn’t matter to Class A, they just wanted to help out their friend and the other heroes wanted to help out the wounded boy who was still giving it his all. If he could still use decay, he’d probably end up winning right there but unfortunately, decay was tied directly to Shigaraki’s hatred which Deku managed to quell already.
 
Let's be honest, the plot armor was working on Uber maximus on AFOshiggy vs Heroes part.
this-form-of-shigaraki-is-cool-spoilers-v0-umzgba6t7g2d1.jpg


You are telling me that building sized energy sickles, warship sizes bone shards and a Machia killing beam, but the battlefield somehow isn't just blotches of crushed humans ? It's like a 1000 ants vs a malfunctioning Roomba strapped with a 9mm, saw blade launcher and a plasma blaster.

I liked the ending where everyone did contribute don't get me wrong, but still it is very much plot armor that the field wasn't looking like a mass grave by the time Izuku punched AFO.
 
BiggestOpp said:
To be fair AFO is weakened. Not just physically but spiritually. Even his quirk factors are fried.
And the Machia killing beam is only accessible to AFO. His quirks were progressively getting stronger the younger he got.
Click to expand...
Yeah, bro was probably like 3 days away from just killing himself. He literally called taking over the world a “hollow” goal. Deku killing him was probably a mercy, unironically.
 
1000TonsofFun said:
Your GOAT is quirk satan who has an abusive, posessive, almost incestuous relationship with his little brother?
giphy.webp
Click to expand...
My goat was an overwhelming necessary evil wiling to pass his legacy down to a child rejected by a system upheld by his arch nemesis. At least he was until Horikoshi flipped the script
 
I been thinking for a while now and should 75% Shigaraki be considered Prime All Might level instead of weakened All Might level?

1. You got the Hawk’s villain report that says Garaki’s enhancements made Tomura on par with PAM. This means ever since the first war Shigaraki was on par with PAM. Makes sense as the doctor said he wasnt exactly equal to AM, implying he was close.
The villain report was based on data from the initial war.
2. Best jeanist said they needed to find a way to seal his speed on par with PAM. Mentioning the first war and his battle with SnS.
3. Deku’s mid gauntlet tanking that punch from Shigaraki is important too.
Nagant’s bullets, when hitting it directly, completely tore it apart. 45% Deku could catch and hold back one of those bullets, with difficulty.
Meaning 45% Deku would downscale from Nagant’s bullets, and Nagant’s bullets would upscale from Shigaraki.
45% Deku could endure attacks from 75% Shigaraki, and harm him with a kick. Keep up with him, blah blah blah. So him downscaling from Nagant’s bullets would be consistent with the idea of Tomura being PAM level.
 
BiggestOpp said:
My goat was an overwhelming necessary evil wiling to pass his legacy down to a child rejected by a system upheld by his arch nemesis. At least he was until Horikoshi flipped the script
Click to expand...
Eh, even before we meet him properly, we know that he manipulates his subordinates through bestowing them quirks, using them as pawns. We also know he kept his brother locked up due to being “ungrateful” as well. We also know that he picked Shigaraki due to him being a Shimura from the start. He says as much in his battle with All Might in Camino. He read a comic and thought he should be like the villain in that story just because. It’s kinda the logical conclusion that he is a narcissistic and pathetic man deep down. Also, was he really a “necessary” evil? He caused society to be in shambles for decades before All Might took him down. He is still cool though, he works because he is so cruel and powerful as well as being a pathetic old man who never experienced love. He’s just a villain through and through, and in a series where most of the villains have some kind of tragic backstory it’s good to have some variety and have one who is (nearly) pure-evil. Same reason Muscular is cool as well, some people are just evil.
BiggestOpp said:
I been thinking for a while now and should 75% Shigaraki be considered Prime All Might level instead of weakened All Might level?

1. You got the Hawk’s villain report that says Garaki’s enhancements made Tomura on par with PAM. This means ever since the first war Shigaraki was on par with PAM. Makes sense as the doctor said he wasnt exactly equal to AM, implying he was close.
The villain report was based on data from the initial war.
2. Best jeanist said they needed to find a way to seal his speed on par with PAM. Mentioning the first war and his battle with SnS.
3. Deku’s mid gauntlet tanking that punch from Shigaraki is important too.
Nagant’s bullets, when hitting it directly, completely tore it apart. 45% Deku could catch and hold back one of those bullets, with difficulty.
Meaning 45% Deku would downscale from Nagant’s bullets, and Nagant’s bullets would upscale from Shigaraki.
45% Deku could endure attacks from 75% Shigaraki, and harm him with a kick. Keep up with him, blah blah blah. So him downscaling from Nagant’s bullets would be consistent with the idea of Tomura being PAM level.
Click to expand...
Hmm, I was gonna disagree due to Garaki’s statement about him being weaker than PAM, but as you said, the doctor merely stated he wasn’t quite on par with All Might. Him being 75% could be an indicator of how powerful he is compared to PAM. That’s more a theory though, probably wouldn’t be able to prove it in a CRT. But he’s clearly not significantly less powerful than PAM.

Unrelated, but all this talk about demoralised AFO reminds me how much power in the series is linked to a character’s mental state. Gigantomachia is explicitly less powerful when he has no master, Deku ups his OFA percentage mid fight with Bakugo due to anger, All Might and Endeavor going “Plus Ultra” against the Nomus, Deku using “1,000,000%” against Muscular due to his intense motivation to save Kota and obviously demoralised AFO being weaker than Shigaraki in the same body.
 
BiggestOpp said:
Snip.
Click to expand...
It's already been known that Tomura got stronger without his Quirks.

It was Garaki's enhancements that made Tomura Prime All Might level. However, Jaku Tomura was incomplete and was getting stronger. By taking the first two battles into account, the heroes predicted that Tomura would reach Prime Might level by the final battle. Nobody said he was Prime All Might level in the past.

Izuku's gauntlets taking the punch means nothing when 45% Izuku was weaker than Tomura, and the gauntlets he has in the Final War Arc are even weaker than what he had in the Dark Hero Arc. You can never make the gauntlets work.

The doctor only says he's not as strong as All Might. In fact, I'm looking at the raws, but it seems like he's just saying Tomura is strong, but isn't equal to All Might.

Anime Subs: "Even though he's got super power, he's not as strong as All Might."

Shigaraki goes from not being on par with All Might to being on par with All Might by the Final War Arc. He clearly got stronger. All For One even states that Shigaraki's potential surpassed his and Garaki's expectations during the Star and Stripe's fight.

I think the issue is that the Prime All Might level was probably not meant to be 60x stronger. As the gap isn't meant to be that enormous. I still personally believe Rewind AFO should have some scaling to Prime All Might level, and that same AFO stated that Endeavor was the only one in the group that could reach him as he was in that moment.

100% Izuku in the Jaku Battle wasn't able to one-shot a Quirkless and weakened Tomura. Tomura, after he realized his body was incomplete, stated that the power Izuku had would still be a hindrance to his dream even if his body was completed and uninjured. And I don't believe Izuku made OFA that much stronger in that timeframe.

By the Dark Hero Arc, it's not unlikely that Izuku and others now understand All Might's strength fully.

There is a big gap, as even Plus Ultra All Might was inferior to Prime All Might, yet I don't think it was meant to be blitzing and one-shot level.

This is all my personal opinion, so who cares what I say. Feel free to disagree with me.
 
talking about plus ultra

isnt there an easy way to quantify a plus ultra amp? i remember seeing a statement that says it puts all the power of the previous ofa users into one attacks
 
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