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Zenless Zone Zero Discussion Thread

MaskedDragon908 said:
They look excellent, thank you.
Masked does wonder if the normal variant of the Dead End Butcher should scale to Class M; doesn't it perform the same mace swing as its Notorious counterpart?
Click to expand...
It has an like Axe instead of the Mace so I forgot if It’d be different, I didn’t do Class M on it because I don’t want someone questioning why we’re using the Notorious calc on the regular version.
 
Ruby_R_Dracula said:
How does the Sheer Dmg Dura neg work in matchups?

Thinking monkeh
Click to expand...
I don’t think it should even be indexed on profiles. It’s just damage scaling in game that’s not referenced in lore or even properly showcased in it.
Reducing defense by 100% would mean they’d one shot absolutely everything. That’s dumb to try to index.
I personally don’t like indexing different attacks technically boosting the Characters strength being index (ex, Some ultimates or mindscapes get damage bonuses), but some here like it. Trying to use sheer dmg def ignore in matchups would trigger me into making a CRT.
 
Ruby_R_Dracula said:
How does the Sheer Dmg Dura neg work in matchups?

Thinking monkeh
Click to expand...
Unsure.
The only thing it's really confirmed to do is bypass Miasmic Shields.
It might extend to other forms of Damage Reduction due to verse equalization, but that would require a fair amount of examination.
BiggestOpp said:
I don’t think it should even be indexed on profiles. It’s just damage scaling in game that’s not referenced in lore or even properly showcased in it.
Reducing defense by 100% would mean they’d one shot absolutely everything. That’s dumb to try to index.
Click to expand...
It's not referenced in lore, but this is also not how it is depicted in-game.
Their Durability Negation just makes it so that they deal more damage to enemies with high defense, nothing more.

Masked doesn't really know how else to index it.
When Yixuan came out, it made some amount of sense, since she deals with Miasma all the time.
But the mechanics were never explained, and so it just sort of remained stagnant.
 
MaskedDragon908 said:
It's not referenced in lore, but this is also not how it is depicted in-game.

Their Durability Negation just makes it so that they deal more damage to enemies with high defense, nothing more.
Click to expand...
Am I bugging?
Sheer force completely ignores DEF, so where most attacks would be reduced by the def number of most bosses, sheer dmg isn’t reduced by that number. Their damage stays the same regardless of the enemy’s def because it doesn’t factor it inside the equation. Or am I misunderstanding something?
 
BiggestOpp said:
Am I bugging?
Sheer force completely ignores DEF, so where most attacks would be reduced by the def number of most bosses, sheer dmg isn’t reduced by that number. Their damage stays the same regardless of the enemy’s def because it doesn’t factor it inside the equation. Or am I misunderstanding something?
Click to expand...
No, you're correct.
Masked is just having a hard time properly expressing how weird DEF is.
It's a game mechanic, so the exact function of DEF is always in contention.

You put it best; the damage stays the same regardless of the enemy's DEF.
The main problem is how it works.
Reducing an enemy's DEF by 100% in ZZZ doesn't allow you to one-shot them.
It's just that Rupture Agents perform better against foes with higher DEF.

It's why Masked is always so cautious about stat changes in video games; what it actually represents in lore is a complicated subject.
The Miasmic Shield is the only solid context we have for Sheer Damage.

Tldr; Masked is conflicted about Sheer Damage.
 
i'm personally under the impression that rupture agent dura neg would only really matter against characters with higher durability or characters with similar defense/shields to miasma shields. i don't think it necessarily means a rupture character just one shots people on their level, just that they can reliably deal damage to characters stronger than them or with those aforementioned defenses/shields

but yeah i agree with masked that durability negation is kind of just the best way to label it, given that other game character profiles with similar "DEF bypassing" effects are also labeled as duraneg

also if i'm being honest i don't really think agents' damage boosting/resistance negation stuff has played a really big role in a lot of the debates i've had with ZZZ characters on here anyways. feels like it's moreso just for the sake of being thorough and having everything properly listed than anything else imo
 
Naito-desu said:
We'd need the dimensions of the creature. I know there's a 3D model of it floating around based on leaks

Also Remielle didn't necessarily use her strength to stop Bashmu, she was using her paralyzing feathers like she did before and needed multiple of them to stop it in its tracks
Click to expand...
are you referring to the cutscene where remielle intercepts bashmu as phaethon and norma are falling through the portal or the other cutscene where remielle holds bashmu in place so phaethon can send it back through the portal?

cause in the first cutscene, it doesn't seem like she uses her feathers to intercept bashmu's incoming assault, we see her pull out her dual swords and then proceed to clash directly with bashmu before the two fall into the portal
 
Sooshirohl said:
are you referring to the cutscene where remielle intercepts bashmu as phaethon and norma are falling through the portal or the other cutscene where remielle holds bashmu in place so phaethon can send it back through the portal?

cause in the first cutscene, it doesn't seem like she uses her feathers to intercept bashmu's incoming assault, we see her pull out her dual swords and then proceed to clash directly with bashmu before the two fall into the portal
Click to expand...
The wrestle one where Phaethon sends it back. I'm not partial to the initial clash being used for LS, it's more likely to be KE aka AP
 
Naito-desu said:
The wrestle one where Phaethon sends it back. I'm not partial to the initial clash being used for LS, it's more likely to be KE aka AP
Click to expand...
oh yeah that one is definitely more of her abilities being utilized, but the first one seems to be more for KE yeah

i64qq230347h1.png


this is bashmu's size in comparison to nineveh, though it's probably worth noting that nineveh in-game is smaller than it's size in cutscenes (seeing as how it completely dwarfs miyabi in size when she's fighting against it)
 
I spent a full month building Starlight Billy and i still feel unsatisfied that i just realized all my other units are buiilt like dogshit

My Lucia and Astra are still buns, my Pyrois and Nicole are still buns, my YSG is buns.

Its so buns that my S Billy team can score higher than my ysg team on the creator
 
Baken384 said:
I spent a full month building Starlight Billy and i still feel unsatisfied that i just realized all my other units are buiilt like dogshit

My Lucia and Astra are still buns, my Pyrois and Nicole are still buns, my YSG is buns.

Its so buns that my S Billy team can score higher than my ysg team on the creator
Click to expand...
whats the stats look like on ur Silly?
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
What's the average crit rate and cirt dmg you should have for DPS characters in ZZZ?
Click to expand...
If you're specifically referring to CRIT DMG dps, most need about
At least 80% critical rate (maybe 95% in combat)
At least 125% critical damage, usually higher if you can get it

It can really depend on the character and W-Engine used, or stuff like Pyrois M1
A lot of characters have stuff that boost their critical rate
For example,

Ye Shunguang is an exception
Since her passive boosts her critical rate
She only needs like 45%, maybe 50% on her statistics screen
And she is free to focus on critical damage, usually around like, 190% or higher
 
MaskedDragon908 said:
If you're specifically referring to CRIT DMG dps, most need about
At least 80% critical rate (maybe 95% in combat)
At least 125% critical damage, usually higher if you can get it

It can really depend on the character and W-Engine used, or stuff like Pyrois M1
A lot of characters have stuff that boost their critical rate
For example,

Ye Shunguang is an exception
Since her passive boosts her critical rate
She only needs like 45%, maybe 50% on her statistics screen
And she is free to focus on critical damage, usually around like, 190% or higher
Click to expand...
Lmfao my highest crit damage characters is Yixuan with 104 lol I guess I need to farm again
As for Shunguang I have her crit rate at 40 and crit dmg at 95.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Lmfao my highest crit damage characters is Yixuan with 104 lol I guess I need to farm again
As for Shunguang I have her crit rate at 40 and crit dmg at 95.
Click to expand...
Yeah Masked has been farming too.
After researching a bit, it seems their Agents are sub-optimal.
Of course, they're missing their W-Engines, so that is to be expected.

Masked has seen some critical damage builds for Yixuan around 145%, sometimes even 155%.
Some people get it even higher, but that honestly sounds insane.

Good luck with your builds.
 
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