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[18-8-0] The God of War VS The Sword Saint - Kratos Vs Reinhard - God of War vs Re:Zero

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LegendariumOfLies

LegendariumOfLies

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Combatants:
Kratos (Ghost of Sparta Key):
  • AP: 16.88 ExaFoe
  • LS: >1.407545594e20 Metric Tons

Reinhard van Astrea:
  • AP: >>> 23.9622 Teratons of TNT
  • LS: >7.51934701e13 Metric Tons

Arena + Rules:
  • The Battle takes place on the Summit of Sacrifice, the combatants are 10 meters aparts
  • Kratos has his Standard Equipment, but DOES NOT have Wrath of The Gods
  • Reihard has his Dragon Sword Reid
  • Both characters are in character
  • Speed is Equalized

Music:


Vote:
God of War: @Reploidnoridomix , @Planck69 , @Pepsimanslover , @MrTayman616, @Omegabronic, @Ang4I00, @TheKingStrategist13, @TheFoolKlien , @GAGGamerTheOverlord , @Ball_of_light, @Huesito88, @azontr , @DarkLock92 , @Harith0cell , @Bruhtelho , @Arkansalter2, @Delusionaltx2

Sword Saint: @DarthSorox , @God_of_perversion, @SatellaTheWoE , @NotoriouSoda @MasterOwOgay , @BoastJr , @Bobsican, @CastoriceTheFifth, @Trxyway
Incon:
 
Last edited:
Planck69 said:
You can't restrict standard equipment (which is everything he has in Ghost of Sparta key except the Gauntlet of Zeus and Sun Shield) if you want this to be added.
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Fair
Planck69 said:
Not that this matters, since he stomps and haxxes with even his bare hands.
Click to expand...
Kratos doesn't resist EE tho? At least not when I checked his Ghost of Sparta key, and while his soul is CM 1 he doesn't have the regen to come back from being reduced to one. Reinhard First Move is a DuraNeg EE Slash that will always hit
 
LegendariumOfLies said:
Fair

Kratos doesn't resist EE tho? At least not when I checked, and while his soul is CM 1 he doesn't have the regen to come back from being reduced to one
Click to expand...
Not in this key yes, but they're 10 meters apart, Kratos is 6.5 times faster, and on top of having innate Soul Magic and Power Nullification punches (on top of Tier 4 striking strength), he's used to tagging and mulching people to use time magic to outspeed him.
 
Planck69 said:
Not in this key yes, but they're 10 meters apart, Kratos is 6.5 times faster, and on top of having innate Soul Magic and Power Nullification punches (on top of Tier 4 striking strength), he's used to tagging and mulching people to use time magic to outspeed him.
Click to expand...
I'll equalize the speed then
 
His God of War key also resists it in Greek saga (since he shares resistances). But anyways.

On top of the above, Kratos has the Fates ensuring he would always become a god then fall from grace. So like, how's that gonna square here? He can be incapped temporarily but not stopped.

Also, the First Hit stuff is probability manipulation based, and he resists that.

Mommyleona said:
cant you restrict equipment if it gets to another tier? I might be wrong tho
Click to expand...
Yes, but the only thing he has that does that is the Gauntlet of Zeus. That can be restricted.
 
LegendariumOfLies said:
Kratos doesn't resist EE tho? At least not when I checked his Ghost of Sparta key, and while his soul is CM 1 he doesn't have the regen to come back from being reduced to one.
Click to expand...
He doesn't need the regen lowk as the Fates will make sure he'll come back to life until he becomes da God of War so eh, he can still come back even then.

Anyway, Kratos's senses are so good that time stands still for him and it literally alters time to slow it down, and he can activate this with any last sec dodge/parry. His hits can nullify and drain magic, he's well, Tier 4, he can info/CM level Decon him with Poseidon's Rage, insta kill with Hadean Energy or transmute him, disable and drain powers with Zeus's lightning, become stronger through the battle through his own development and the AD through his Greek magic, and manipulate time and Life & Death through the Amulet of Uroborus.

He can also gain info through his Innate senses and info analysis, and see across time for any weaknesses through the Amulet if needed.
 
Pepsimanslover said:
He doesn't need the regen lowk as the Fates will make sure he'll come back to life until he becomes da God of War so eh, he can still come back even then.

Anyway, Kratos's senses are so good that time stands still for him and it literally alters time to slow it down, and he can activate this with any last sec dodge/parry. His hits can nullify and drain magic, he's well, Tier 4, he can info/CM level Decon him with Poseidon's Rage, insta kill with Hadean Energy or transmute him, disable and drain powers with Zeus's lightning, become stronger through the battle through his own development and the AD through his Greek magic, and manipulate time and Life & Death through the Amulet of Uroborus.

He can also gain info through his Innate senses and info analysis, and see across time for any weaknesses through the Amulet if needed.
Click to expand...
What does he usually start with?
 
LegendariumOfLies said:
What does he usually start with?
Click to expand...
Whatever works. He has info analysis, instinctive action and analytical prediction on top of a time Amulet that tells him the future/past and his enemies weaknesses, so whatever fits best against them.

In this case, probably Charon's Wrath since it just spawns magical fires on Reinhard directly. Or Amulet time slow into any attack he has since he oneshots.

LegendariumOfLies said:
How he has been erased from existence?
Click to expand...
I mean, Reinhard probably just misses or doesn't draw or whatever. The Fates just ensure he will become the God of War. They don't let him auto win, but he can be bailed out of true death.
 
TheKingStrategist13 said:
Bro that's Kratos what's reinhard doing
Click to expand...
Say it with me now - in Duraneg and EE we trust
Pepsimanslover said:
The EE can't erase his soul (given it's info 2/CM 1 territory), so he'll still exist but his body is gone and that's really it, so Fates just bring him back from dat.
Click to expand...
I don't think so. According to Kratos' profile, the fates allowed him to come back from death, but they didn't really assist him in meaningful way. It was up to him to journey through that terrible Hades level alone. Even then, Kratos still had a body to return to, which wouldn't be the case here, and he doesn't really have regen in this key to regenerate from complete bodily destruction. Technically, Kratos wouldn't be dead, but he would be rendered so impotent that it wouldn't matter.
 
LegendariumOfLies said:
Say it with me now - in Duraneg and EE we trust

I don't think so. According to Kratos' profile, the fates allowed him to come back from death, but they didn't really assist him in meaningful way. It was up to him to journey through that terrible Hades level alone. Even then, Kratos still had a body to return to, which wouldn't be the case here, and he doesn't really have regen in this key to regenerate from complete bodily destruction. Technically, Kratos wouldn't be dead, but he would be rendered so impotent that it wouldn't matter.
Click to expand...
Kratos obviously doesn't return to his original corpse, what? He comes back at the Temple of the Oracle, through a portal/hole to the Underworld created by Zeus, disguised as a gravedigger.

And of course they don't directly need to intervene. All they do is ensure he becomes God of War. You can potentially incapacitate him (as Charon did) but as long as they will it, he's not permanently dying.

Not that much of this even matters here. He resists Probability Manipulation so the First Hit stuff is largely rendered moot and even if it wasn't, he could also just replace himself with an identical clone right before it lands, on top of his other means.
 
LegendariumOfLies said:
Say it with me now - in Duraneg and EE we trust
Click to expand...
Assuming he hits Kratos first
Yes, he has a ability tailor made for that- But if it's probability Manip, Kratos resists that via resisting the powers of the fates.
If it's instinctive action, Kratos has options, his weakest key having enhanced senses and time manipulation that in conjunction let him see enemies in a sort of slow motion, has analytical prediction that is described as follows: "Can accurately simulate the potential movement of his opponents, using his instincts and senses, even without his eyes. Kratos battles by feeling, sound, smell and a sense honed in battle that transcended physical hints)", and then in his Ghost of Sparda key, similarly impressive info analysis, and his own instinctive action. I'm just reading stuff off his page tbh, but even though Reinhard seems to have a one shot... Kratos also seems to have a viable one shot, plus the tools to set himself up to land it better at a glance, as well as having the tools to actually make Reinhard's guaranteed first attack not so guaranteed.
 
TheKingStrategist13 said:
Assuming he hits Kratos first
Yes, he has a ability tailor made for that- But if it's probability Manip, Kratos resists that via resisting the powers of the fates.
Click to expand...
Seems to be more Vector Manipulation and Homing Attack
In conjunction with Marksmanship
Possibility Manip is there but only considered Possibly
  • Possibly Probability Manipulation (Due to his Divine Protection of Initiative, his first attack is guaranteed to hit his target)

TheKingStrategist13 said:
If it's instinctive action, Kratos has options, his weakest key having enhanced senses and time manipulation that in conjunction let him see enemies in a sort of slow motion, has analytical prediction that is described as follows: "Can accurately simulate the potential movement of his opponents, using his instincts and senses, even without his eyes. Kratos battles by feeling, sound, smell and a sense honed in battle that transcended physical hints)", and then in his Ghost of Sparda key, similarly impressive info analysis, and his own instinctive action. I'm just reading stuff off his page tbh, but even though Reinhard seems to have a one shot... Kratos also seems to have a viable one shot, plus the tools to set himself up to land it better at a glance, as well as having the tools to actually make Reinhard's guaranteed first attack not so guaranteed.
Click to expand...
So Incon?

Planck69 said:
Kratos obviously doesn't return to his original corpse, what? He comes back at the Temple of the Oracle, through a portal/hole to the Underworld created by Zeus, disguised as a gravedigger.
Click to expand...
Has he ever been shown to do something similar reduced only to a soul?

Planck69 said:
And of course they don't directly need to intervene. All they do is ensure he becomes God of War.
Click to expand...
And how do they do this exactly?

Planck69 said:
You can potentially incapacitate him (as Charon did) but as long as they will it, he's not permanently dying.
Click to expand...
I mean kind of different circumstances. In Charon, he was still alive and had his whole body, with Reinhard \, his body is just getting deleted out of existence.

Planck69 said:
Not that much of this even matters here. He resists Probability Manipulation so the First Hit stuff is largely rendered moot and even if it wasn't, he could also just replace himself with an identical clone right before it lands, on top of his other means.
Click to expand...
And what his response if Reinhard just starts spamming EE at him?
 
LegendariumOfLies said:
Seems to be more Vector Manipulation and Homing Attack
In conjunction with Marksmanship
Possibility Manip is there but only considered Possibly
  • Possibly Probability Manipulation (Due to his Divine Protection of Initiative, his first attack is guaranteed to hit his target)
Click to expand...
If it's just movement based, then nothing is stopping Kratos from being able to land anything he has first.
LegendariumOfLies said:
Has he ever been shown to do something similar reduced only to a soul?
Click to expand...
....How do you think he's fighting his way through the Underworld? He's just a soul, that then gets his body back when he gets back to the living world.
LegendariumOfLies said:
And how do they do this exactly?
Click to expand...
See above.
LegendariumOfLies said:
And what his response if Reinhard just starts spamming EE at him?
Click to expand...
The fight isn't lasting that long cause the moment a hit lands, it's over for Reinhard. And Kratos has far too many ways to achieve that.

This whole discussion also assumes the sword even strikes him before he just twitches and atomizes him with Rage.
 
Planck69 said:
....How do you think he's fighting his way through the Underworld? He's just a soul, that then gets his body back when he gets back to the living world.
Click to expand...
And has he been able to escape the Underworld without outside help?
Planck69 said:
The fight isn't lasting that long cause the moment a hit lands, it's over for Reinhard. And Kratos has far too many ways to achieve that.

This whole discussion also assumes the sword even strikes him before he just twitches and atomizes him with Rage.
Click to expand...
Is Rage Power Kratos go to especially against an opponent that on the surface seems weaker than him, and if it is how will Rage atomize Reinhard?
 
LegendariumOfLies said:
And has he been able to escape the Underworld without outside help?
Click to expand...
The point isn't that he'd auto-rezz right there, but that losing his body isn't something that renders the Fates helpless to save him. Like I said, the Fates don't fast track his battles, they just ensure he eventually becomes the God of War. It doesn't stop incapacitation, you can just not stop him from achieving that cause a goddess of fate wants him to.

LegendariumOfLies said:
Is Rage Power Kratos go to especially against an opponent that on the surface seems weaker than him, and if it is how will Rage atomize Reinhard?
Click to expand...
Poseidon's Rage. The AoE lightning magic.

And yes, he has several different abilities that let him know Reinhard is dangerous. That's enough for him to just use his best options. Like, just look at his Standard Tactics section, Kratos isn't Jiren where he starts with a fraction of his power or whatever against physically weaker foes.
 
The Fates are irrelevant in this matchup because if Kratos doesn't return from death within a reasonable timeframe, it would simply be counted as a loss.

You can also restrict higher-tier weapons or abilities if the character is capable of voluntarily refraining from using them. That is almost always the case with weapons, especially for Kratos. So no, that does not invalidate the matchup.

Now, onto the other points. While the Divine Protection of Initiative is listed as passive probability manipulation, that's only because we didn't have a better way to index it at the time. It's also law manipulation, acting as a direct constraint imposed on the world itself. Just as water is wet and fire is hot, Reinhard will always land the first hit. I don't see anything on Kratos's profile in this key that would allow him to bypass or negate that.

Secondly, he still has to get through the skillslop, which Kratos is incredibly outscaled in. I don't see how he overcomes the sheer gap in combat skill, technique, and overall swordsmanship here.

Moreover, Kratos's perception amplification/time-slowing ability isn't even remotely comparable to Reinhard's. Reinhard's perception effectively statues himself, allowing him to swing his sword hundreds of millions of times within that timeframe in his own mind. He is capable of using this to avoid and make multiple types of calculations to beat his opponent. Along with this, if you don't possess instinctive action to the point where there's virtually no gap between thought and movement, you'll constantly be exploited in combat. This is the level of skill that characters far below Reinhard are capable of, yet they they wouldn't reach his level even after an eternity of training.

Next, does Kratos have any resistance to passive power nullification, mana absorption, or life-force absorption? Otherwise, he simply gets incapacitated from being in Reinhard's presence.

Finally, how exactly is Kratos supposed to figure out Reinhard's strengths and weaknesses before Reinhard closes the distance and slices him to pieces?
 
The First Hit is listed as probability manipulation, so that would need a page change to begin with. But even then;

Skill is largely irrelevant here cause Kratos wins with anything he does. He's not going to get into a prolonged fight or exchange blows, Reinhard has to somehow not get hit by anything he does at all.

One of said moves being an instant AoE attack that he has no answer to. Another being just spawning magic flames on his body directly. And another being the amulet's time magic. And even with the time stop resistance, Kratos can either adapt to it or just get mad and bypass it.

And Kratos does resist power nullification and absorption. He resists everything Reinhard has except the Existence Erasure and Law Manipulation of that sword and even that can't affect his soul anyways.

He has Information Analysis that tells him what his opponents can do in terms of being a threat and an Amulet that shows him the past, future and his enemies weaknesses, so he's fine there.

Like, this isn't a complex match, it's "can Reinhard use his sword before Kratos kills him with literally anything he does".
 
...Actually wait, is Rage of the Gods restricted, cause that would just let him blitz.
 
Resistance to power null comes from being able to resist Lightning of Zeus and Hadean Energy, and absorption from both aforementioned and Soul Magic, all of which he is listed as resisting in his Ghost of Sparda Key (in soul magic's case from Spartan Cadet). So those abilities shouldn't be particularly relevant.

OP didn't restrict Rage of The Gods explicitly, no.
 
Planck69 said:
The First Hit is listed as probability manipulation, so that would need a page change to begin with. But even then;
Click to expand...
I mentioned this above so idk why you're ignoring it but all blessings are by default law manip too, again Kratos doesn't resist that which means he wouldn't be able to resist his passive probability hax either even if you want to consider it to be that
Planck69 said:
Skill is largely irrelevant here cause Kratos wins with anything he does. He's not going to get into a prolonged fight or exchange blows, Reinhard has to somehow not get hit by anything he does at all.
Click to expand...
well yeah, and the skill gap is large enough where kratos landing any hits at all is practically impossible especially when he is up against someone who can dodge rain in a rainstorm, or sand in a sandstorm. He doesn't even have the required instinctive action to deal with Reinhard and there is nothing stopping reinhard from tagging him multiple times lol
Planck69 said:
One of said moves being an instant AoE attack that he has no answer to.
Click to expand...
"he has no answer to"
read his profile man, he can dodge undodgable attacks, you aren't tagging him with AoE
Planck69 said:
Another being just spawning magic flames on his body directly.
Click to expand...
how does this work?
Planck69 said:
And another being the amulet's time magic. And even with the time stop resistance, Kratos can either adapt to it or just get mad and bypass it.
Click to expand...
why would kratos go for this over just trying to kill him like the brute he is
Planck69 said:
And Kratos does resist power nullification and absorption. He resists everything Reinhard has except the Existence Erasure and Law Manipulation of that sword and even that can't affect his soul anyways.

He has Information Analysis that tells him what his opponents can do in terms of being a threat and an Amulet that shows him the past, future and his enemies weaknesses, so he's fine there.
Click to expand...
Good for him, but by the time he sees and processes this, Reinhard will already be moving to finish him off and i dont see anything on Kratos's profile that would allow him to survive 10,000kms of EE slash
Planck69 said:
Like, this isn't a complex match, it's "can Reinhard use his sword before Kratos kills him with literally anything he does".
Click to expand...
the answer is yes, if you're wondering.
LegendariumOfLies said:
Is it Standard?
Click to expand...
you can restrict standard equipment too if its a higher tier as i mentioned above
 
Reinhard vs err uhhh bbbb
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Arkansalter2 said:
Reinhard vs err uhhh bbbb
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no wincons man 💔
 
You know, it is very surprising to see that Kratos lacks law manip and resistence to EE (at least on his two first keys)
Overall i'd say that Reinhardt Wins simply because he would start with his EE (because of his intuition and shi) plus the fact that he would skill slop
Planck69 said:
The First Hit is listed as probability manipulation, so that would need a page change to begin with. But even then;
Click to expand...
The first hit is one of his Divine protections which are all acepted to be Law manip
Planck69 said:
Skill is largely irrelevant here cause Kratos wins with anything he does. He's not going to get into a prolonged fight or exchange blows, Reinhard has to somehow not get hit by anything he does at all.
Click to expand...
Man tbh, the best feats i've seen on Kratos' profile is at most mid tier level skill feats in rezero
Planck69 said:
One of said moves being an instant AoE attack that he has no answer to
Click to expand...
Reinhardt once dodged all raindrops in a rain and i heard it was stated that he could dodge every grain of sand of a sandstorm
 
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