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Getting specific details about the Null Space being timeless and spaceless wasn't something I expected
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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
- Start date
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IMMEASURABLE SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED
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The first round of Sonic x DC was alright but so far Metal Legion is straight up delightful. The villains really busted out the party hats. I can't man
especially with Black Manta wearing one.
AyOgUyS
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while we're on the topic of immeasurable speed: don't we currently accept that the white space feat is immeasurable, just that sonic specifically only achieves such speeds while accelerating through erased time? if there's a statement in like forces, frontiers, or any other post-generations media that sonic is faster than ever before, couldn't that also mean he's faster than when he restored space-time?
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We are just holding it backwhile we're on the topic of immeasurable speed: don't we currently accept that the white space feat is immeasurable, just that sonic specifically only achieves such speeds while accelerating through erased time? if there's a statement in like forces, frontiers, or any other post-generations media that sonic is faster than ever before, couldn't that also mean he's faster than when he restored space-time?
AyOgUyS
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Sonic Frontierswhile we're on the topic of immeasurable speed: don't we currently accept that the white space feat is immeasurable, just that sonic specifically only achieves such speeds while accelerating through erased time? if there's a statement in like forces, frontiers, or any other post-generations media that sonic is faster than ever before, couldn't that also mean he's faster than when he restored space-time?
“He’ll have to focus and run faster than he’s ever had.”
Immeasurable speed Frontiers Sonic?
It could be consistent with Sonic stating he's faster than time and math (lmao).
AyOgUyS
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Well nothing but being faster than it does imply breaking the speed formula which could be grounds for an Immeasurable rating. I'll see if I can find more Immeasurable speed feats other than the restoration of space and time in Generations.
TheStinkeer
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I think it would be better to use Sonic escaping an enraged Wyvern and Knight as well as scaling 3/4 Titans to grab their Emerald, thus somewhat downscaling his speed at the time of Frontiers compared to his Super self and the Titans. The statement you used is technically a thing but at the same time, it's from a Youtube video.Sonic Frontiers
“He’ll have to focus and run faster than he’s ever had.”
Immeasurable speed Frontiers Sonic?
It could be consistent with Sonic stating he's faster than time and math (lmao).
AyOgUyS
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Thanks!
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Iizuka confirmed Shadow is doing the same thing
MysticMania
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I remember Sonic having plot manip resistance on his page I think. I know that comes from Secret Rings, but how does it constitute plot manip again? I don't remember him denying the plot or something atm.
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Sonic resistance to that comes from the fact that he was fated by the story itself to die...and well...
TheStinkeer
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It's still there. Sonic is written to be the sacrifice that would be the key to controlling the World Rings as the collector of the World Rings. King Solomon says he has the look of death and the JP special book confirms he was supposed to die as the collector of the rings. However, as we know, he ultimately didn't die.
That being said it's not without controversy, the ultimate turning point was Sonic's wish to Shahra to "do what she truly believed was right" and this caused Shahra to jump in front of him. That being said, Sonic was still ultimately the catalyst for his own fate being defied, and Shahra was secretly working against him the entire time. Due to this, I proposed making those resistances a "possibly" though it didn't go anywhere and most people disagreed anyways, so that was closed.
Plus, Frontiers has fate resistance in itself which is also on the profile, both on base and Super. There is one feat that isn't on the profile that I think is good, which is Sonic escaping from Cyber Space the first time which is mostly if not completely separated from the Cyber Corruption situation, something The End refers to as doing the impossible and Sage alludes to his ability to freely enter and exit Cyber Space as cheating fate, even further backed up in the JP script when Tails states things go down to the bottom of causality. While his memories may have aided him, it's still ultimately defying fate when even his friends and death itself couldn't
MysticMania
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Is that's right, then I think I'd disagree with it. Even though Sonic did tell Shahra to do what she think is right, it was her hand that shielded him from fate more than his own, imo. That would also mean she's the one denying the plot more than he is.
TheStinkeer
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Still, she still was secretly leading him to that fate, being the one to give Erazor Djinn the World Rings in the first place despite whatever plan Sonic had in mind. It was only after Sonic's own wish in spite of Shahra's simple wishes that directly led to her choice.
With that I don't want to say Shahra didn't do anything at all, cause she had a huge role to play, but Sonic also had a huge role to play, so I just say they both defied fate.
MysticMania
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I get what you mean. If he told her to protect his life, then I could see it more, but I feel his wish was too simple to count as defying fate itself.
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Didn't Blue, even though he was "added to the story" (becoming "part" of the Arabian Nights itself, which would mean having your destiny settled by plot and law), remain unaffected by Alf-Layla-Wa-Layla's reality warping?
MysticMania
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Yeah.
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Wouldn't that be a decent on-screen feat for plot hax resistance?
ShakeResounding
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Sonic is already engrained in the narrative of the Arabian Nights like Sapphire mentioned, so the specifics don't quite matter when Sonic isn't destroyed when the rest of the book is destroyed during their final confrontation. Being part of the book means he should be subject to its laws and rules, so Sonic should have been destroyed alongside all of reality.
I would also argue Sonic wishing for Shahra to have autonomy IS still plot manip resistance, because it's still a part of his narrative to die like King Whats-His-Name said. Shahra had a very minimal part of it, and did so only at Sonic's behest. Though I feel this is arguing semantics a tad.
Correct.
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Not to mention Shahra is clearly aware of the principles of the Arabian Nights, how they function and certain individuals stories (since she literally explains it through Erazor's backstory)
If she was somehow able to defy her own fate/story, wouldn't that be something of MAJOR significance considering Sonic's fate in the story?
MysticMania
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Do we know that Erazor's reality manip. was also changing the plot itself? I could've missed something.
TheStinkeer
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It's possible, considering that the World Rings are the seven hearts that "create stories" and rule the worlds, states he'll be the new creator, and that he states something akin to:
“I, the Creator... the one who tells the story of the world... the one who weaves it”
“What did you say? There’s absolutely nothing here! I want nothing to do with a world like this!” (not a fully accurate translation, but it should mean smth close to this)
I mainly see it as a reality warp resistance but it also being plot resistance could work too
I feel like saying Shahra had a very minimal part is somewhat downplaying her contribution, especially since Sonic made the wish with her ring. Still agree with the rest of what you said tho as Sonic shouldn't have been able to do anything that would lead to it being defied among other things
I would also like to bring up as a minor point that Erazor Djinn, who's magic is stronger than Shahra's and should have had equal power to her in the past, couldn't defy his fate with Shahra granting simple wishes as noted earlier. Now acknowledging that, their magic could just be different enough, and despite Shahra's simple wishes, she can also slow down time and such.
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More than once by him.
Why make it "possibly" though? If you were so hellbent on Shahra having a hand in that feat, why didn't you (hypothetically) suggest moving it in the Sonic with Shahra's Ring tabber?
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TheStinkeer
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Because as I said I see it as a joint effort along with Shahra's previous betrayal thus trying to make that fate happen, among my other points like Shahra's magic compared to Erazor's magic and Erazor's performance against the story
TheStinkeer
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Is it possible to calculate the Egg Mobile's speed here and here? Perhaps this as well? Mainly on the Earth in the background
It should be a feat for Tails as he modified it, Eggman as he's at least equal to Tails, had the Egg Fortress do the same thing and also has similar feats in his own Egg Mobile overall. Scales to pretty much everyone who fought the Egg Mobile post-Classic era
It should be a feat for Tails as he modified it, Eggman as he's at least equal to Tails, had the Egg Fortress do the same thing and also has similar feats in his own Egg Mobile overall. Scales to pretty much everyone who fought the Egg Mobile post-Classic era
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Probably but I doubt it would be that impressive. Maybe you could estimate what layer of the atmosphere the Egg Mobile started at say the Mesosphere 90 Kilometers above ground level and then assume he reached the Exosphere over 800 kilometers up and then use the distance of 710 kilometers for the feats distance. I'm not sure if those assumptions for a calc are viable although even if they are the feat would probably be Massively Hypersonic+ (still a nice supporting feat to put on the verse page if it got calced).
TheStinkeer
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I'd say the latter two feats would net a higher result and probably be a bit more valid, especially since we see Earth and the moon moving. I tried to use the moon as reference and it'd be a speed close to reaching 1% the speed of light, so a really High Hypersonic+ thing
Either way I think it'd be nice since it'd be more support for FTL Sonic feats from the lasers and statements and such.
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Question. Does stopping time in a timeless void give it another layer or is there a different term for it? This came about from discussing Chaos Control compared to Stopga (from Kingdom Hearts) cuz apparently one can use Stopga in a timeless void and you can do the same in Shadow Gens with Chaos Control.
TheStinkeer
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I'd assume so. Plus if you believe in a Hypertimeline it would quite literally be another layer since it's a higher time
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Surge, Infinite and Gemerl.
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What do you mean?Would the recent IDW feat of Sonic halting in time to avoid being struck by natural cloud-to-ground lightning be worth anything nice as a low to mid end?
AyOgUyS
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You know the recent IDW comic line where Sonic and friends visit Knuckles on Angel Island and there's a storm? There's like a moment where lightning strikes down and Sonic halts just in time before it strikes where he was going, so I was wondering if that could scale to his speed?
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Obviosly it will
AyOgUyS
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He's just built like that.
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