Ladybug's and Catnoir's Absolute Power

[Masonic9+2]

Hello there! This thread is just serving the purpose for Ladybug's and Catnoir's abilities, this should also upscale them in a way which gives the the edge in fights. ill also be justifying such stuff, so we can go ahead and justify Ladybug's and Catnoir's abilities being absolute, this is forward to their passive as well.

Why Ladybug's and Catnoir's powers are absolute?
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The miraculous’s powers being absolute would just make formally sense, from a contradiction, any consequent can just be derived. If we let P represent absolute miracle manipulation and Not P represent absolute disaster manipulation, this would create a contradiction due to both of them are absolute and cannot coexist without invalidating each other’s absoluteness.

If a miracle is guaranteed to happen, but a disaster is guaranteed to prevent it, neither can overwrite the other without violating its own definition of being “absolute.” So the outcome would logically be that they perfectly cancel each other out, which is symbolic of the yin and yang narrative of Miraculous.

Summary​

In a vacuum of pure logic, they must cancel each other out. You cannot mathematically or conceptually top an absolute with an absolute; you can only meet it at the horizon and neutralize it on and equal field

Link to tweets​

First tweet
Second tweet
Third tweet

Paraconsistent Contention
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"Paraconsistent logic exists in which things can exist paradoxically without cancelling each other out"

Why should we adopt Paraconsistent logic to be an acceptability condition (If the debater is able to provide this; look for this):

• Circular Reasoning
• (if not fallacious) ask for a motivation for the concept

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"it’s not Sound"

Another route would just be: u can argue that through the contraadiction u can use POE (principle of explosion) to predicate any q (consequent) FROM p and not p (antecedent) since a consequent can exist from using POE, we can assume that a deduction exist ergo its sound

You can also ask why your argument being illogical is going to be a defeater, and just be a burden demon

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Therefore off of this, Ladybug and Catnoir should have absolute powers like absolute miracle manipulation, disaster manipulation, etc. the list keeps moving on and on. if you have any problems, please list them in the comments and ill contend to them.

 

[Mythic381]

Don't these tweets technically count as a leading question? Or in some way be invalidated? As the answer seems pretty heavily powerscaling-related, Thomas Astruc himself talking about powerscaling in these tweets.

 

[Masonic9+2]

Don't these tweets technically count as a leading question? Or in some way be invalidated? As the answer seems pretty heavily powerscaling-related, Thomas Astruc himself talking about powerscaling in these tweets.

I mean? I have no motivation to believe that these tweets are going to be unreliable

 

[BoastJr]

I don't see any particular tiers being proposed here

 

[Masonic9+2]

I don't see any particular tiers being proposed here

This thread isn’t centered around Attack Potency, or any type of tier, it’s just abilities

 

[Mythic381]

I mean? I have no motivation to believe that these tweets are going to be unreliable

Unreliability isn't what is being questioned here. Using WoG that is directly from a powerscaling question or is related to powerscaling usually invalidates it as being used on this wiki.

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Don't these tweets technically count as a leading question?

No.

Leading the question would be asking Thomas if Marinette's cellphone transcends all dimensions and that makes her outversal because she's unquantificably superior to it (he has some of those too). Thomas is just yapping on a discussion he started and it's doing the legwork to justify it.

Also, he himself says in several tweets that he finds powerscaling to be nonsense (lol 'kay). His point with his tirade is that Powerscaling is irrelevant when it comes to the verse he created.

Anyways, I disagree with this thread. Namely because PS is a thing in Miraculous and Thomas is talking about potential unlimited powers - which lines up with the fact that, within what's explicitly stated in the show, the only limits the Miraculouses possess are the ones the holder imposes upon themselves. No Miraculous holder has yet unlocked the full scope of their "true power".

 

[Masonic9+2]

Unreliability isn't what is being questioned here. Using WoG that is directly from a powerscaling question or is related to powerscaling usually invalidates it as being used on this wiki.

You questioned validity, which would question reliability too, so it is being questioned here if your questioning the vaildity of the statements from Thomas

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

You questioned validity, which would question reliability too, so it is being questioned here if your questioning the vaildity of the statements from Thomas

What he means is that this wiki doesn't takes for granted an argument for scaling of the sorts of "this character is stronger than Goku because the creator said so" or for taking the word of a writer when he has been basically reduced onto a yes or no question. It settles terrible precedents.

 

[Masonic9+2]

No.

Leading the question would be asking Thomas if Marinette's cellphone transcends all dimensions and that makes her outversal because she's unquantificably superior to it (he has some of those too). Thomas is just yapping on a discussion he started and it's doing the legwork to justify it.

Also, he himself says in several tweets that he finds powerscaling to be nonsense (lol 'kay). His point with his tirade is that Powerscaling is irrelevant when it comes to the verse he created.

Anyways, I disagree with this thread. Namely because PS is a thing in Miraculous and Thomas is talking about potential unlimited powers - which lines up with the fact that, within what's explicitly stated in the show, the only limits the Miraculouses possess are the ones the holder imposes upon themselves. No Miraculous holder has yet unlocked the full scope of their "true power".

In those tweets, he is simply saying that power scaling in other universes like Ladybug vs Goku for an example. He believes that it cannot be logically resolved because it doesn’t make sense for powerscaling when crossover into other universes, that’s why he states clearly in the miraculous universe in one of his tweet I listed.

Dude, your a larper, it’s quite stated that Ladybug had no limits when facing Monarch from Bunnyx which I can link the scan for you if needed. (prima facie)

 

[Mythic381]

Leading the question would be asking Thomas if Marinette's cellphone transcends all dimensions and that makes her outversal because she's unquantificably superior to it (he has some of those too). Thomas is just yapping on a discussion he started and it's doing the legwork to justify it.

Also, he himself says in several tweets that he finds powerscaling to be nonsense (lol 'kay). His point with his tirade is that Powerscaling is irrelevant when it comes to the verse he created.

There's a reason I also added the:

Or in some way be invalidated? As the answer seems pretty heavily powerscaling-related

I was unsure of how to use the term correctly.

The answer itself originates from a question about a cross-verse battle, where Thomas proceeds to basically say that the Miraculers are unbeatable, and giving the reason that the Miraculous can not be overpowered or bypassed.

Yes, he may not care about powerscaling, and yes, the question wasn't directly "Are the miraculous' powers where they can create things paradoxically without cancelling each other out" but that doesn't really mean they can't be invalidated for being a powerscaling related question.

You questioned validity, which would question reliability too, so it is being questioned here if your questioning the vaildity of the statements from Thomas

Uh no? I didn't question validity as in thinking the statements are fake or anything of that sorts. I said they could be invalidated via the fact there's powerscaling related in the Thomas' responses that are derived from something clearly powerscaling related.

Anyways, I'll wait for a moderator's input on that matter as I'm not really knowledgeable enough on that here.

Dude, your a larper,

That was uncalled for.

 

[Masonic9+2]

What he means is that this wiki doesn't takes for granted an argument for scaling of the sorts of "this character is stronger than Goku because the creator said so" or for taking the word of a writer when he has been basically reduced onto a yes or no question. It settles terrible precedents

If he is asking this, the narrative just supports Thomas’s statements, which I included the yin and yang part for a reason but yes

 

[Masonic9+2]

There's a reason I also added the:

I was unsure of how to use the term correctly.

The answer itself originates from a question about a cross-verse battle, where Thomas proceeds to basically say that the Miraculers are unbeatable, and giving the reason that the Miraculous can not be overpowered or bypassed.

Yes, he may not care about powerscaling, and yes, the question wasn't directly "Are the miraculous' powers where they can create things paradoxically without cancelling each other out" but that doesn't really mean they can't be invalidated for being a powerscaling related question.

Uh no? I didn't question validity as in thinking the statements are fake or anything of that sorts. I said they could be invalidated via the fact there's powerscaling related in the Thomas' responses that are derived from something clearly powerscaling related.

Anyways, I'll wait for a moderator's input on that matter as I'm not really knowledgeable enough on that here.

That was uncalled for.

He never said that power scaling was irrelevant to the verse he created, he simply stated that power scaling wouldn’t matter to other universes (crossover)

And also, these statements that you are showing can just be based of narrative and feats, also if power scaling didn’t matter to k his verse, then why state that Ladybug and Catnoir are equals? And stuff?

Also I never accused you of that btw

Okay, I’ll just wait for a mod, and probably discuss it with them

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Dude, your a larper

I have pretty much written on my profile that I have not watched a single episode of Miraculous in my life.

Chill out.

In the tirade of tweets you're talking about Thomas also speaks that a hero with super force would potentionally have unlimited super force and that the reason why Hawk Moth and Mayura were able to shatter Jade Turtle's Shellt-er despite the fact Transmission and Emotion have no correlation to Protection was because of Fu's own mentality at the moment.

it’s quite stated that Ladybug had no limits when facing Monarch from Bunnyx

???

 

[Masonic9+2]

I have pretty much written on my profile that I have not watched a single episode of Miraculous in my life.

Chill out.

In the tirade of tweets you're talking about Thomas also speaks that a hero with super force would potentionally have unlimited super force and that the reason why Hawk Moth and Mayura were able to shatter Jade Turtle's Shellt-er despite the fact Transmission and Emotion have no correlation to Protection was because of Fu's own mentality at the moment.


???

If you watched all of miraculous, you should know that Ladybug surpassed her limits when facing Monarch!!!

Yea, Fu’s mentality just supports Thomas, and the tweet doesn’t do anything to the argument

 

[PrimeHydra64]

Those abilities have to be on the wiki to be added like miracle and disaster manipulation isn't an indexed ability.

For example, It would be like reality warping and chaos manipulation respectively.

And the tweets are him responding under a ladybug vs my hero debate which might get it put under leading questions since having the creator themselves is involved in a cross verse debate. Though It depends on what the mods think.

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

I was unsure of how to use the term correctly.

The answer itself originates from a question about a cross-verse battle, where Thomas proceeds to basically say that the Miraculers are unbeatable, and giving the reason that the Miraculous can not be overpowered or bypassed.

Yes, he may not care about powerscaling, and yes, the question wasn't directly "Are the miraculous' powers where they can create things paradoxically without cancelling each other out" but that doesn't really mean they can't be invalidated for being a powerscaling related question.

Per Editing Rules:

Regarding direct information from the author/creator of a character: We do not use statements from them that are phrased in an uncertain, uncaring, and/or unspecific manner, such as "Could be", "Maybe", "Probably", "Possibly" etcetera. Brief or vague answers to fan-questions via social media are also generally disregarded, whereas more elaborate explanations in serious interviews are usually considered more reliable.
When a statement from a character, guidebook, or even word of god contradicts what occurs in the series, they won't be used. For example, if an author says that a character from his work is incapable of shattering planets, even though it has destroyed galaxies on-screen, we will always go with the latter, rather than the former. The statement needs to be consistent with what has been revealed within the fictional franchise itself. Otherwise, it will be considered invalid.

• Author statements will only be accepted when they clarify what has been shown or implied in the series itself, and will be rejected when they contradict what has been shown to the audience. Statements that technically do not contradict anything shown in the series will still be rejected if there is no evidence that they are accurate.
• Also, generally try to avoid scaling between different fictions via author statements about one character being comparable with another. It will usually be very uninformed assumptions, or hyperbole, and even if both stories have the same author, the portrayal of the different characters' power in relation to each other may still contradict these statements.

Whats not allowed out of this statements is scaling Miraculous characters to DC or Marvel. The statements on themselves are valid.

If you watched all of miraculous, you should know that Ladybug surpassed her limits when facing Monarch!!!

Yeah, she broke her time limiter ig?

 

[Masonic9+2]

Those abilities have to be on the wiki to be added like miracle and disaster manipulation isn't an indexed ability.

For example, It would be like reality warping and chaos manipulation respectively.

And the tweets are him responding under a ladybug vs my hero debate which might get it put under leading questions since having the creator themselves is involved in a cross verse debate. Though It depends on what the mods think.

Sure, the abilities that VSBW had gave her can just be absolute too as the thread is for her powers