ULTIMATE Street Fighter Upgrades (Ingrid Edition)

[Continuum19]

Takayuki Nakayama's heavy implication that Ingrid's dimension bending abilities being the reason why Tifa Lockhart is in Street Fighter 6 open up A LOT of tiering possibilities: https://www.dexerto.com/street-figh...e-and-whats-next-for-world-tour-mode-3373225/

If Tifa Lockhart is the EXACT SAME CHARACTER from the mainline Final Fantasy series and she simply traveled to the Street Fighter universe, courtesy of Ingrid, then it might give the Street Fighter verse another MASSIVE power boost!

Ultimately, We won't know for certain until Tifa Lockhart's story content is released in 2027 of course!

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Takayuki Nakayama's heavy implication that Ingrid's dimension bending abilities being the reason why Tifa Lockhart is in Street Fighter 6 open up A LOT of tiering possibilities: https://www.dexerto.com/street-figh...e-and-whats-next-for-world-tour-mode-3373225/

If Tifa Lockhart is the EXACT SAME CHARACTER from the mainline Final Fantasy series and she simply traveled to the Street Fighter universe, courtesy of Ingrid, then it might give the Street Fighter verse another MASSIVE power boost!

Ultimately, We won't know for certain until Tifa Lockhart's story content is released in 2027 of course!

Her being Isekai'd doesnt ammount to anything, unless Final Fantasy itself says Tifa went to Street Fighter and acknowledges, this is just a Tifa coming from an alternate reality

Geralt in Soul Calibur 6 is also isekai'd and isnt buffed for fighting the cast he crosses with and nor Clive in Tekken 8 whom also is stated to be isekai'd benefits either nor the verse he encounters

As always, all you care about is having your verse be strong and the only reason you even care, assuming things out for baseless assumptions, cosmos doesnt equal a multiverse, let alone a 2-A one and tier 1 in itself you need far more evidence too, what you have now isnt concrete enough to be accepted and thinking the staff familiar on these will just give green light is being delusional

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Saman did a far better job with Ingrid profile then you did in this thread and knows the standards far better on the site, as well as the verse and so on, you dont even know even 1/4 of all these, if even that, all you know is just come up to attempt buffs on the surface without much effort or being organized, he handled the verse so far for characters you didnt care showing up for well before Ingrid too and would rather have someone who knows what they are doing more then you did

 

[Continuum19]

@BlackDarkness679 You are spouting an UNBELIEVABLE amount of nonsense right now!

Firstly, I've never been aware that a crossover characters placement in a verse HAD to go both ways!

If there is sufficient information that Street Fighter 6's Tifa is the exact same person as the mainline Final Fantasy's Tifa then I don't see a problem with the potential scaling (Tifa's Street Fighter 6 story would need STRONG evidence for this to be possible of course!)

If there is a rule on VBW that states otherwise then that's my mistake.

Secondly, Ingrid EXPLICITLY STATES that Street Fighter 6's COSMOS is a MULTIVERSE made up of INFINITE UNIVERSES and I posted explicit evidence of this!

I NEVER expected any member of this community to simply green light my proposals without any pushback

Back and forth debate was expected and welcome!

Thirdly, the implication that I didn't care about the Street Fighter verse pre-Ingrid and that I ONLY care about power levels is BAFFLINGLY ignorant of my past Vs Battles Wiki Street Fighter revision threads (Saman believes that Ingrid is only Low 2-C and myself, and multiple other community AND staff members disagree and believe she's much more powerful. That's fine. We're all here to discuss it!)

 

[BlackDarkness679]

@BlackDarkness679 You are spouting an UNBELIEVABLE amount of nonsense right now!

For you anything is nonsense unless it benefits you or a staff tells you that you are in the wrong

Firstly, I've never been aware that a crossover characters placement in a verse HAD to go both ways!

There is literally pages about that on the fandom wiki for that, let alone threads on the topic or even others you can simply ask something, ofc you wouldnt be aware cuz you dont care enough to check anything beforehand ever, why you think almost any crossover has different profiles for characters coming up in another series, cuz most dont go bothways

If there is sufficient information that Street Fighter 6's Tifa is the exact same person as the mainline Final Fantasy's Tifa then I don't see a problem with the potential scaling (Tifa Street Fighter 6 story would need STRONG evidence for this to be possible of course!)

If there is a rule on VBW that states otherwise then that's my mistake.

The fact you ignored my comment for your dream of street fighter scaling to final fantasy just further proves my point thats all you care about, SF6 can say all they want how Tifa comes from a different universe, if Final Fantasy doesnt want that, Capcom has no say to claim its canon both way, thats not how this works and has always been as such

Secondly, Ingrid EXPLICITLY STATES that Street Fighter 6's COSMOS is a MULTIVERSE made up of INFINITE UNIVERSES and I posted explicit evidence of this!

you didnt post anything, what you shared earlier is just her saying she is the cosmos incarnate which is =/= to a multiverse with infinite posibilities, you act like tier 2 is handed that easily

Thirdly, the implication that I didn't care about the Street Fighter verse pre-Ingrid and that I ONLY care about power levels is BAFFLINGLY Ignorant of my past Vs Battles Wiki Street Fighter revision threads (Saman believes that Ingrid is only Low 2-C and myself, and multiple other community AND staff members disagree and believe she's much more powerful. That's fine. We're all here to discuss it!)

All you cared about was calcs that buff them and last big thread you did was Akuma which was years ago and you said yourself you like something just for being strong, Ingrid suddenly opens the door for tier 2 and you return with a thread with buffs, yet revising and giving the others beforehand better scaling, powers and so on you didnt even bat an eye for

And just cuz a few others see her higjer doesnt mean if you ask staff knowledgable on tier 2 or tier 1 will jist nod yes to it and even then, you couldnt even care less to look up the standards for such big levels and if the info available can even be plenty to grant it

 

[Continuum19]

you didnt post anything, what you shared earlier is just her saying she is the cosmos incarnate which is =/= to a multiverse with infinite posibilities, you act like tier 2 is handed that easily

It's in the original post.

Ingrid states that the Street Fighter Cosmos is 2-A.

Check my original post thoroughly if you don't believe me.

All you cared about was calcs that buff them and last big thread you did was Akuma which was years ago and you said yourself you like something just for being strong, Ingrid suddenly opens the door for tier 2 and you return with a thread with buffs, yet revising and giving the others beforehand better scaling, powers and so on you didnt even bat an eye for

And just cuz a few others see her higjer doesnt mean if you ask staff knowledgable on tier 2 or tier 1 will jist nod yes to it and even then, you couldnt even care less to look up the standards for such big levels and if the info available can even be plenty to grant it

You're just wrong.

I care about MUCH MORE then just calcs and buffs and my documented history ot Street Fighter revision threads prove that.

If.you simply don't believe me then there's nothing that I can do to convince you otherwise.

If myself and a majority of community and staff members believe that Ingrid is 2-A or higher then it'll go through.

That's how VBS works!

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Ingrid states that the Street Fighter Cosmos is 2-A.

And no proof of her scaling to 2-A, all you have is her being higher dimensional and her saying she cosigns universes doesnt imply it refers to the totality of it either and you dont assume the highest possible end without much clearer claims her power affects that vastly

You're just wrong.

I care about MUCH MORE then just calcs and buffs and my documented history ot Street Fighter revision threads prove that.

If I look up and pull your history since 2022 it would show you only cared for stats on the verse, as well as fraudulous scaling, as well as whatever you posted on your wall too, you just dont like it when you are proven exactly as stated, you dont care of anything other then stats and since Akuma from years ago, you didnt care of any other character to help in any CRT, unless it involves big ratings like Ingrid

If myself and a majority of community and staff members believe that Ingrid is 2-A or higher then it'll go through.

That's how VBS works!

A member vote is irrelevant, it doesnt matter if 90% would agree, a staff word like it or not decides what goes and not and as far as this is concerned you got just 1 staff agreeing, Saman voiced his stance on 2-A and/or Low 1-C and due to these being big ratings as well, you need far more staff input

Cuz for your info VSB doesnt work like that with higher stats as these, which you would know if you even bothered to look up threads with such upgrades for any other verse

 

[Continuum19]

And no proof of her scaling to 2-A, all you have is her being higher dimensional and her saying she cosigns universes doesnt imply it refers to the totality of it either and you dont assume the highest possible end without much clearer claims her power affects that vastly

You said that the Street Fighter universe wasn't 2-A at all before now.

You didn't acknowledge how you blatantly got that bit of information wrong even though I had posted it in the original post and it was there the entire time.

And you have the nerve to call ME delusional!

If I look up and pull your history since 2022 it would show you only cared for stats on the verse, as well as fraudulous scaling, as well as whatever you posted on your wall too, you just dont like it when you are proven exactly as stated, you dont care of anything other then stats and since Akuma from years ago, you didnt care of any other character to help in any CRT, unless it involves big ratings like Ingrid

Why are you stopping at 2022?

I know EXACTLY why!

You can keep making the claim that I only care about power levels.

My ENTIRE VBW history is proof otherwise!

A member vote is irrelevant, it doesnt matter if 90% would agree, a staff word like it or not decides what goes and not and as far as this is concerned you got just 1 staff agreeing, Saman voiced his stance on 2-A and/or Low 1-C and due to these being big ratings as well, you need far more staff input

Cuz for your info VSB doesnt work like that with hogher stats as these, which you would know if you even bothered to look up threads with such upgrades for any other verse

I know I need more staff agreement before any large revisions can be made.

I've got no problem with that and I'm looking forward to seeing how other staff members respond to my thread.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You said that the Street Fighter universe wasn't 2-A at all before now.

You didn't acknowledge how you blatantly got that bit of information wrong even though I had posted it in the original post and it was there the entire time.

And you have the nerve to call ME delusional!

I have the nerve cuz your thread is a mess, which even Saman pointed too, it still doesnt excuse your poor attempts at scaling her as high as you can without even checking standards of her qualifying to begin with, all you do is take the words of what others say, couldnt care less I got one bit wrong from a thread not even organized to begin with

Why are you stopping at 2022?

I know EXACTLY why!

You can keep making the claim that I only care about power levels.

My ENTIRE VBW history is proof otherwise!

Cuz thats the only times you were ever active more on this verse and did messy CRTs which Saman also told you they aint great, you cant even admit to your words from the past

After Ingrid is settled, you wont even be around for the verse for any threads, besides Tifa if that means to you her franchise stats go over to Street Fighter via cross scaling, which needs Square Enix having a word on that

I am done talking with you, whatever you have to say in return, I am not interested, so keep it to yourself, any future staff coming here should know that Saman whom is more well informed on the series and actually went out his way to check up and seen nothing that the site may accept such high stats

 

[Continuum19]

I have the nerve cuz your thread is a mess, which even Saman pointed too, it still doesnt excuse your poor attempts at scaling her as high as you can without even checking standards of her qualifying to begin with, all you do is take the words of what others say, couldnt care less I got one bit wrong from a thread not even organized to begin with

Take the words of others?

When this is MY thread and I'M the one who brought up Ingrid being multiversal to begin with?

Hilarious!

Multiple other community members and even a staff member agree with 2-A or higher Ingrid so it's a distinct possibility.

More discussion is needed to seal the deal of course!

Additionally, You don't care that you got the 2-A bit of information dead wrong?

That's not surprising at all!

Cuz thats the only times you were ever active more on this verse and did messy CRTs which Saman also told you they aint great, you cant even admit to your words from the past

After Ingrid is settled, you wont even be around for the verse for any threads, besides Tifa if that means to you her franchise stats go over to Street Fighter via cross scaling, which needs Square Enix having a word on that

I am done talking with you, whatever you have to say in return, I am not interested, so keep it to yourself, any future staff coming here should know that Saman whom is more well informed on the series and actually went out his way to check up and seen nothing that the site may accept such high stats

Blatantly false

I've made multiple threads on VBW that involve things besides power levels.

SO WHAT if my last few threads have been focused on power levels and power scaling?

You claim that I won't be around for any other verse revisions after the Ingrid stuff is settled and I plan on disproving that claim in the near future.

If we're done talking then that's that I guess.

How on GOD'S GREEN EARTH are YOU going to tell ME to keep my response to myself when YOU are commenting on MY revision thread?

That doesn't make a lick of sense!

Anyways, It's been fun debating you BlackDarkness as always!

Have a nice day!

 

[Tarcaver]

What is this yapfest that's going on above? This is a revision thread, treat it as such instead of derailing out of nowhere.

 

[Continuum19]

Just lively and fierce debate between 2 community members.

Nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

What is this yapfest that's going on above? This is a revision thread, treat it as such instead of derailing out of nowhere.

darkness came out super rude for no reason

 

[Continuum19]

darkness came out super rude for no reason

BlackDarkness has had a grudge against me ever since I made a Tekken downgrade thread several years ago.

Our war of words all happened here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/massive-tekken-downgrades.146504/

 

[DaReaperMan]

BlackDarkness has had a grudge against me ever since I made a Tekken downgrade thread several years ago.

Our war of words all happened here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/massive-tekken-downgrades.146504/

BlackDarkness is just an ass in general. Eventually you come to accept this and tune em out

As for this thread... ignoring the tier 1 stuff which I am by no means equipped to comment on because I don't do tier 1, the Low 2-C is blatantly fine. Nobody should scale to her though, just to keep some form of consistency

 

[Maniaunavailable]

BlackDarkness is just an ass in general. Eventually you come to accept this and tune em out

Insane first impression

 

[DaReaperMan]

Insane first impression

Trust me, it's not a first impression. Anywho, derailing, my last comment on the matter

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Trust me, it's not a first impression. Anywho, derailing, my last comment on the matter

anyways, tier 1 should be valid as its stated like 3 times she trascends everything. and the context seems to match it, but I think we should just lay on low 2-c for now

 

[FinePoint]

@BlackDarkness679
Please be civil.
You can praise Saman without putting other people down.

 

[Continuum19]

BlackDarkness is just an ass in general. Eventually you come to accept this and tune em out

As for this thread... ignoring the tier 1 stuff which I am by no means equipped to comment on because I don't do tier 1, the Low 2-C is blatantly fine. Nobody should scale to her though, just to keep some form of consistency

Hmph.

A part of me REALLY likes Tier 2 and/or Tier 1 Game Canon Ryu but there simply isn't enough evidence to support Ryu being comparable to Ingrid right now.

Oh well

The dream of Universal Ryu will have to wait another day.

 

[SamanPatou]

Ingrid calls herself the Cosmos Incarnate at 6:10 & 14:10 of this video:
Ingrid also explicitly stated that she's the mysteries of the UNIVERSE given perfect form!
If Ingrid is the embodiment of the Cosmos and the cosmos is a Multiverse made up of infinite universes then it's safe to say that Ingrid is 2-A
My assumption is that Ingrid is talking about her True Form but she doesn't explicitly state that her True Form is the Cosmos Incarnate (though it's a safe assumption that she's talking about her True Form in my opinion)
My rationalization is that Ingrid simply calls herself the Cosmos Incarnate to keep it simple because whenever she tries to go in-depth on what she ACTUALLY is AVATAR (John World Tour) gets confused

Ingrid, even in her true form, isn't really the cosmo/multiverse incarnate, it's just one of her flowery epithets she gives herself to hype her up in front of mortals and pull their feet.
Her WT goes sufficiently in deep on her nature to tell she is a being wholly separate from the multiverse, and she draws power from it while also having to defend it. Her true form resides in a higher dimension, so she's a separate entity altogether.

Ingrid also references DMC so tier 1 shouldn't be that problematic

She references Project X Zone DMC, which is a separate canon from main DMC, just like all the franchises featured in the crossover.

Takayuki Nakayama's heavy implication that Ingrid's dimension bending abilities being the reason why Tifa Lockhart is in Street Fighter 6 open up A LOT of tiering possibilities: https://www.dexerto.com/street-figh...e-and-whats-next-for-world-tour-mode-3373225/

If Tifa Lockhart is the EXACT SAME CHARACTER from the mainline Final Fantasy series and she simply traveled to the Street Fighter universe, courtesy of Ingrid, then it might give the Street Fighter verse another MASSIVE power boost!

Ultimately, We won't know for certain until Tifa Lockhart's story content is released in 2027 of course!

It's totally not the same, and even if she was, it would be such a ludicrous outlier to instantly invalidate any form of reasonable scaling, aside from breaking a dozen or so of our crossover rules.

anyways, tier 1 should be valid as its stated like 3 times she trascends everything. and the context seems to match it, but I think we should just lay on low 2-c for now

The main problem still stands, i.e. that simply being a trascendental being alone doesn't warrant tier 1 according to our policies, and she has neither been shown nor stated to affect anything than an individual universe at a time
For how much I'd love to push her so high, I have to honestly say I don't think we have definitive proof of anything beyond Low 2-C.

 

[Continuum19]

Ingrid, even in her true form, isn't really the cosmo/multiverse incarnate, it's just one of her flowery epithets she gives herself to hype her up in front of mortals and pull their feet.
Her WT goes sufficiently in deep on her nature to tell she is a being wholly separate from the multiverse, and she draws power from it while also having to defend it. Her true form resides in a higher dimension, so she's a separate entity altogether.

I personally haven't seen anything from Ingrid's canonical world tour dialogue hat suggests that she's a being entirely seperate from, and fundamentally different from, the Multiverse itself.

If Ingrid explicitly states that she's the mysteries of the universe given form, in addition to multiple statements of her stating that she's the Cosmos Incarnate, it seems reasonable to me that it's a statement that should be taken literally.

But if you fundamentally disagree with this particular interpretation of the character then I won't argue the point any further.

Ingrid does state that can be destroy UNIVERSES though so I feel like, at the very least, Universe level+, Possibly Low Multiverse level for Ingrid's stats MIGHT be warranted!

 

[SamanPatou]

I personally haven't seen anything from Ingrid's canonical world tour dialogue hat suggests that she's a being entirely seperate from, and fundamentally different from, the Multiverse itself.

She states to be an entity from a higher dimension, which automatically puts her outside of the multiverse.
She also has to actively travel, search, investigate and operate around the multiverse, create projections and so on, aside from not being omniscient. I feel like it would all be different if she was the very multiverse.
We also have to account for the other 3 code holders, whom I believe share the same nature with her, but are not her.

If Ingrid explicitly states that she's the mysteries of the universe given form, in addition to multiple statements of her stating that she's the Cosmos Incarnate, it seems reasonable to me that it's a statement that should be taken literally.

There' s a clear distinction between the moments where she provides direct exposition and when she's just fooling around to misguide people, and the former moments never even imply she is such things.

Ingrid does state that can be destroy UNIVERSES though so I feel like, at the very least, Universe level+, Possibly Low Multiverse level for Ingrid's stats MIGHT be warranted!

Universe level+ is a given, but to be Low Multiverse level you need proof she can destroy more than a single universe at the same time, a notion which we don't possess.

 

[Continuum19]

She states to be an entity from a higher dimension, which automatically puts her outside of the multiverse.
She also has to actively travel, search, investigate and operate around the multiverse, create projections and so on, aside from not being omniscient. I feel like it would all be different if she was the very multiverse.
We also have to account for the other 3 code holders, whom I believe share the same nature with her, but are not her.

Ingrid also states that she can't achieve her true form and power without reality collapsing in on itself.

Ingrid's PROJECTIONS, which have been stated tl exist across the multiverse, are the ones who need to travel, search, investigate, etc

There' s a clear distinction between the moments where she provides direct exposition and when she's just fooling around to misguide people, and the former moments never even imply she is such things.

Ingrid isn't fooling around when she calls herself the Cosmos Incarnate to my knowledge

Universe level+ is a given, but to be Low Multiverse level you need proof she can destroy more than a single universe at the same time, a notion which we don't possess.

That's fine.

Stronger evidence is needed to support 2-C so I'll drop this one outright.

 

[SamanPatou]

Ingrid also states that she can't achieve her true form and power without reality collapsing in on itself.

She doesn't say the universe would collapse, she says it's not complex enough to house her true form, there' s a great difference and she never mentions any destruction. It's probably just a matter of how the universe's mechanics work. For all we know, she may be unable to manifest even if she wanted to destroy it.

Ingrid's PROJECTIONS, which have been stated tl exist across the multiverse, are the ones who need to travel, search, investigate, etc

Yes, exactly because her true self is outside of the multiverse and doesn't have neither inherent knowledge nor direct influence over it.

Ingrid isn't fooling around when she calls herself the Cosmos Incarnate to my knowledge

Well, she kinda is, we see her using those titles while spouting out a bunch of other titles in a cheerful attitude while messing around with the interlocutor, as she also strikes poses, uses funny tones of voice and makes jokes.
It's a whole different matter when she provides elaborate expositions on herself, times during which she maintains an overall serious attitude.

 

[Continuum19]

She doesn't say the universe would collapse, she says it's not complex enough to house her true form, there' s a great difference and she never mentions any destruction. It's probably just a matter of how the universe's mechanics work. For all we know, she may be unable to manifest even if she wanted to destroy it.

Ingrid mentions complexity and then she immediately mentions the fact that she can consign universes to oblivion after talking about manifesting her true form and power.

Ingrid also also heavily implies in her steam blog that if she uses her full power that the universe itself would be gone.

Yes, exactly because her true self is outside of the multiverse and doesn't have neither inherent knowledge nor direct influence over it.

It's never stated that Ingrid exists outside the multiverse to my knowledge

When Ingrid states that her True Form exists in a higher dimension my assumption is that she's saying her true form is 4th dimensional.

And it wouldn't expect one of Ingrid's many Corporeal projections that exist across the multiverse to be omniscient or anything like that.

Since when was being omniscient a requirement to being an embodiment of the multiverse to begin with by the way?

Well, she kinda is, we see her using those titles while spouting out a bunch of other titles in a cheerful attitude while messing around with the interlocutor, as she also strikes poses, uses funny tones of voice and makes jokes.
It's a whole different matter when she provides elaborate expositions on herself, times during which she maintains an overall serious attitude.

Ingrid wasn't making any jokes when she called herself the Cosmos Incarnate in that specific moment.

 

[SamanPatou]

Ingrid mentions complexity and then she immediately mentions the fact that she can consign universes to oblivion after talking about manifesting her true form and power.

Yes, but there's no direct relation between the two, and it still wouldn't mean she's the multiverse itself anyway.

It's never stated that Ingrid exists outside the multiverse to my knowledge

She exists in a dimension above the multiverse, which is pretty much outside of it, or beyond, call it what you may, it still doesn't mean she's the multiverse itself.

Since when was being omniscient a requirement to being an embodiment of the multiverse to begin with by the way?

It's a possible aspect, but generally abstract entities that compose whole chunks of reality do know about their content, take Eternity for example.

Ingrid wasn't making any jokes when she called herself the Cosmos Incarnate in that specific moment.

It's still a hyperbolic epithet, taking it literally is a huge leap of faith, too much to be considered reliable.

Anyway, without solid evidences for Low 1-C, I wouldn't keep this thread going any further and would post the profile as proposed and accepted thus far.

 

[Continuum19]

Yes, but there's no direct relation between the two, and it still wouldn't mean she's the multiverse itself anyway.

If Ingrid mentions it one after the other then I think it's reasonable to assume so.

She exists in a dimension above the multiverse, which is pretty much outside of it, or beyond, call it what you may, it still doesn't mean she's the multiverse itself.

That's never stated anywhere.

It's a possible aspect, but generally abstract entities that compose whole chunks of reality do know about their content, take Eternity for example.


It's still a hyperbolic epithet, taking it literally is a huge leap of faith, too much to be considered reliable.

Anyway, without solid evidences for Low 1-C, I wouldn't keep this thread going any further and would post the profile as proposed and accepted thus far.

I don't think it's hyperbolic but if you don't think it's strong enough evidence then I guess that's that for now.

By the way, i was never personally arguing tor Low 1-C.

I've been arguing for 2-A Ingrid at ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM!

But Low.2-C Ingrid is acceptable.

 

[SamanPatou]

If Ingrid mentions it one after the other then I think it's reasonable to assume so.

Not necessarily, because she may have the ability to destroy universes without having to collapse them through self-insertion.

That's never stated anywhere.

She comes from a higher dimension and we see that she uses avatars and Monoids even in the space between the universes, so it's pretty safe to assume this "higher dimension" is beyond the multiverse.

 

[Continuum19]

Not necessarily, because she may have the ability to destroy universes without having to collapse them through self-insertion.

That's possible.

She comes from a higher dimension and we see that she uses avatars and Monoids even in the space between the universes, so it's pretty safe to assume this "higher dimension" is beyond the multiverse.

I have a different interpretation of what Ingrid meant when she said that her True form exists in a higher dimension.

As we discussed previously.