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Reinhard van Astrea Vs. Sasuke Uchiha

Foriaa said:
Kaneki brutalizes
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Kaneki when
are-these-two-physical-attacks-comparable-which-one-has-v0-2zmifmtr14mg1.jpg

006.jpg

007.jpg
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
Reinhard getting fried by Genjutsu layers apparently
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Mido02 said:
Sasuke winning via genjistsu since it has 3 layers
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From what i am reading, its +2 layers of resistance of mind-soul conceptual hax working on more parameters vs 3 layers of normal mind hax?

I don't see why Reinhard wouldn't already resist it. Zab mentioned that potency involves more than just layers, so even if you grant that point, Reinhard has already demonstrated the ability to gain resistances to effects he didn't previously resist.

Even if you want to argue that's an NLF, that limitation would only apply to entirely new types of hax, not abilities that Od Laguna is already aware of. Genjutsu from Naruto clearly falls under a category of hax that Od Laguna would recognize. Because of that, just as Reinhard can gain something like additional layers of fire resistance through Divine Protections, there's no reason he couldn't gain additional layers of resistance against hax that he already possesses resistance to.

Though, tbh his godly intuition would allow him to not look at his eyes anyway, it has done much more absurd things.

Now, what stops him from nuking Sasuke's ass to hell and back?
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
From what i am reading, its +2 layers of resistance of mind-soul conceptual hax working on more parameters vs 3 layers of normal mind hax?

I don't see why Reinhard wouldn't already resist it. Zab mentioned that potency involves more than just layers, so even if you grant that point, Reinhard has already demonstrated the ability to gain resistances to effects he didn't previously resist.

Even if you want to argue that's an NLF, that limitation would only apply to entirely new types of hax, not abilities that Od Laguna is already aware of. Genjutsu from Naruto clearly falls under a category of hax that Od Laguna would recognize. Because of that, just as Reinhard can gain something like additional layers of fire resistance through Divine Protections, there's no reason he couldn't gain additional layers of resistance against hax that he already possesses resistance to.

Though, tbh his godly intuition would allow him to not look at his eyes anyway, it has done much more absurd things.

Now, what stops him from nuking Sasuke's ass to hell and back?
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The guys are just wanking over layers and trying to claim that RE doesn't work the way it's supposed to
 
Yeah so

1. There is no mind soul conceptual hax. Mind and soul is not conceptual in re zero. Even when it gets passed as Type 3, it's actually practically irrelevant in matches since Type 3 doesn't really do anything 💔

2. Reinhard doesn't have 2 layers of resistance to mind and soul hax. He has 1 layer.

3. Zabazab has an incorrect and simplified view of the hax page which is explained above.

4. Od Laguna doesn't have Genjutsu.
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
Now, what stops him from nuking Sasuke's ass to hell and back?
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Susano'o stoping EE lol

NikHelton said:
The guys are just wanking over layers and trying to claim that RE doesn't work the way it's supposed to
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nope

RE explicitly goes by feats and complexity of the verse in question, just having RE to a couple of random abilities isn't gonna cut it with anothers if you don't have feats. That's why RE merchants are fodder now.
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
RE explicitly goes by feats and complexity of the verse in question, just having RE to a couple of random abilities isn't gonna cut it with anothers if you don't have feats. That's why RE merchants are fodder now.
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If you don't even have feats to get stronger layers of hax then it's not that RE merchants are fodder, it's that the characters you thought were RE merchants are fodder 🗿 🗿🗿
 
Phoenks said:
There is no mind soul conceptual hax. Mind and soul is not conceptual in re zero. Even when it gets passed as Type 3, it's actually practically irrelevant in matches since Type 3 doesn't really do ananything
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What? Cm3 would mean Genjutsu doesn't work against Reinhardt any more since mind would equal concept type 3 which Sasuke lacks
It would also mean his EE is cm3 but that doesn't really matter
Tldr: Sasuke loses his only wincon if ODs get upgraded to cm3, which is possible to happen since Actualspaceman agreed with cm3
 
God_of_perversion said:
What? Cm3 would mean Genjutsu doesn't work against Reinhardt any more since mind would equal concept type 3 which Sasuke lacks
It would also mean his EE is cm3 but that doesn't really matter
Tldr: Sasuke loses his only wincon if ODs get upgraded to cm3, which is possible to happen since Actualspaceman agreed with cm3
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Type 3 concepts are pretty much useless for bypassing abilities that are otherwise similar:

From the concept page
Conceptual manipulation of this type can be resisted by those who resist sufficiently similar abilities, even if the exact mechanics may differ.
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Phoenks said:
Yeah so

1. There is no mind soul conceptual hax. Mind and soul is not conceptual in re zero. Even when it gets passed as Type 3, it's actually practically irrelevant in matches since Type 3 doesn't really do anything 💔

2. Reinhard doesn't have 2 layers of resistance to mind and soul hax. He has 1 layer.

3. Zabazab has an incorrect and simplified view of the hax page which is explained above.

4. Od Laguna doesn't have Genjutsu.
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  1. Soulwashing isn't just a mind-affecting ability. It's accepted as CM Type 2 and Law Manipulation, while Od itself is treated as a Type 3 concept encompassing the mind, soul, memories, identity, and more. The argument that Type 3 is irrelevant only works when the mechanics are similar enough for the conceptual aspect to not matter. Chakra and Od are fundamentally different systems, so I don't see why the conceptual aspect should be ignored here as they are not similar enough in mechanics.
  2. The issue was never just layers btw. The hax page explicitly states that potency includes factors beyond layering. Soulwashing can affect over 200,000 people at once, directly interact with Od, transfer damage through Od connections, and affect aspects of a person far beyond what Genjutsu has demonstrated. Reinhard scales above these effects, so reducing the discussion to "he only has one layer of resistance" ignores the actual potency scaling being discussed.
  3. I disagree. The page explicitly states that potency includes factors other than layers, so the nature of the ability absolutely matters when discussing interactions. If Reinhard is resistant to effects acting through Od, then simply pointing out that Genjutsu targets the mind doesn't automatically establish that it bypasses those resistances.
  4. ???, The argument was never that Od Laguna can perform Genjutsu. The argument is that Od Laguna is already aware of mind-affecting and soul-affecting phenomena and has repeatedly demonstrated the ability to grant stronger resistances to things it recognizes. We've already seen it grant superior resistances against various forms of manipulation. Because of that, there's no reason to assume it couldn't grant the necessary resistance potency here as well.
More importantly, none of these points actually solve Sasuke's biggest issue in the matchup.

Even if we assume Genjutsu is a valid win condition, Sasuke still has to prove that it successfully interacts with Reinhard through all of the resistances and protections already discussed. If it doesn't, Reinhard immediately gains the advantage.

There's also Divine Protection of Insensitivity, which explicitly prevents Reinhard from being interfered with by outside influences, whether through enhancement or impairment. Genjutsu is fundamentally an external attempt to interfere with the target's mind and senses, so this is yet another layer of protection that needs to be bypassed before Sasuke can even begin establishing his win condition.

From there, DSR's EE and Spatial Manipulation become a major problem. Sasuke's profile does not list resistance to Spatial Manipulation, nor does it list resistance to Existence Erasure. The argument that Susanoo blocked TSBs doesn't help here because that resistance isn't actually listed on his profile, meaning it can't be used in this discussion to begin with. Even ignoring that, I haven't seen evidence that Susanoo resists the spatial aspect of the attack at all.

Godly Intuition also makes the standard eye-contact argument questionable. it allows him to instinctively know the correct course of action. If looking into Sasuke's eyes is disadvantageous, there's no reason to assume Reinhard would choose to do so in the first place.

I am voting Reinhard if this isnt a stomp
 
Still confused on the Law/Conceptual Authority Resistance vs Normal Layered Genjutsu Resistance.

Reinhard has already resisted mind/soul/sensory manipulation that operates by rewriting the underlying laws/concepts governing those things which is a stronger feat than resisting conventional mind manipulation. Therefore standard layered Genjutsu shouldn't automatically bypass that resistance no?
 
I don't think Sasuke would be able to use genjutsu in this matchup due to Reinhard's passive power nullification.

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  • Excess Mana Circulation Constitution: Reinhard was born with a rare, though not unique, physical trait which inordinately absorbs and circulates ambient mana throughout his body. This causes all magic in his presence to completely unravel in composition; having failed to produce any distortions in reality, it is essentially just a formless stream of mana which blindly follows Reinhard, and is absorbed by his defective Gate. This means that Reinhard is not only unable to be harmed by magic, it actually makes him stronger.
Click to expand...
 
karo_senpaii said:
There are 4 measures used for potency.
1. Mechanism. Is Sasuke mechanisms superior here? The answer is yes as it encompasses the mind, Brain, nervous system and all 5 senses. It even goes as far as to affect the soul

2. Layers. Does he have superior layers? Overwhelmingly so, it's 3 layers of mind manipulation, a layer already is almost enough to disregard any other factor as that's the most important portion there. In fact there is a note on the page explaining to you how if you have a gas that affects your mind, simply spreading the gas over more ground does not increase the potency, which is exactly what you are arguing for.

3. How greats the effects are: is Sasuke mm effects greater than anything he has faced? Yup, his genjutsu is above something like tsukyomi that can warp space, time and create an entire dimension in a mind. Allow someone to experience 3 days in seconds and torture and repeat the same scene over and over again for hundreds of thousands of time. Extract info, control the body, read memories ..I can keep going.

4. How many people it can affect. Here is the only place you have an edge and that's it.

If Sasuke is overwhelmingly superior in 3 out of 4 categories? It's safe to say he doesn't stand a chance
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How does this work for immunity?


Divine Protection of Insensitivity: The user can't be interfered with by any outside influences, whether it be magical enhancement or impairment.

It's on Reinhard profile. It doesn't grant a resistance but straight up "can't be interfered".
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
Susano'o stoping EE lol


nope

RE explicitly goes by feats and complexity of the verse in question, just having RE to a couple of random abilities isn't gonna cut it with anothers if you don't have feats. That's why RE merchants are fodder now.
Click to expand...
Susano'o has never been shown to be resistant to anything like space cutting, and even if we go purely off feats of durability, Sasuke's Susano has been pierced through by jobbers like Shin and random attacks thrown by Kaguya that scale nowhere
 
karo_senpaii said:
Has soul wash ever affect Reinhardt?
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Soul washing didn't do anything to Reinhard aside from making him slightly more aggressive, and even then, that didn't do much. In character as of current day Sasuke does not use genjutsu on people (see his fight with Isshiki or Jigen) and he didn't even bother using it against Naruto, Madara or Kaguya in their fights, so there is probably a mental resistance threshold as well
 
MasterOwOgay said:
He was able to resist it for a short period before the Authority>DP relationship came into play
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I know why I asked this and I was right. He doesn't have some type of conceptual resistance. He resisted the source "authority" , so the effect "mind manipulation" went away. Which means in a normal settings he still gets ****** by mind manipulation
MasterOwOgay said:
but that doesn't matter here because his passive power nullification shuts down genjutsu

is there any other wincon for him or is this match a stomp then?
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I'm reading the power null and it's about unravelling magic and his relationship with "gate" in rezero. There's nothing even remotely close to that in Naruto for it to be equalised so it's straight up useless. It won't affect chakra.

Crimsonobu said:
How does this work for immunity?


Divine Protection of Insensitivity: The user can't be interfered with by any outside influences, whether it be magical enhancement or impairment.

It's on Reinhard profile. It doesn't grant a resistance but straight up "can't be interfered".
Click to expand...
How exactly is magic and mana going to be equalised for this to work? Do you believe they are similar enough?

You're also going to have to explain what impairment means.
Hercules1125 said:
Soul washing didn't do anything to Reinhard aside from making him slightly more aggressive, and even then, that didn't do much. In character as of current day Sasuke does not use genjutsu on people (see his fight with Isshiki or Jigen) and he didn't even bother using it against Naruto, Madara or Kaguya in their fights, so there is probably a mental resistance threshold as well
Click to expand...
What has ishikki and jigen got to do with this? Hope you know this match up is Ems Sasuke right?
 
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