God of War CRT: Misc. Changes #IDK

[Planck69]

Introduction​

Yeah, even more changes. Let's get into it.

Changes​

• The Blade of Artemis should be changed to "Varies, up to 1-C", since as of this revision, gods and titans are no longer scaling above Primordials by default, making the main claim on the page unknowable. This of course means that it is no longer 1-C in Ghost of Sparta Kratos's hands.
• Ragnarok Kratos should have Resistance to BFR via taking a full-powered, enraged blow to the head from Thor with Mjolnir in hand, with the latter's strikes capable of shaking and splintering the Yggdrasil, sending Jormugandr through time itself.
• Ghost of Sparta Kratos should have his range updated, since it's frankly pretty mid (Standard Melee range for the most iconic chain weapons ever lol). It would thus be changed to;
  • Tens of Meters (The Blades of Chaos can supernaturally extend to distances of several yards. Created a hundred foot wide and deep crater with Poseidon's Rage), Varies from Kilometers to Interstellar with Artefacts (Could use the Amulet of Ouroboros to rebuild Apollo's island statue, even reaching into the bottom of the sea to pull its lantern back. The Eyes of Truth see through and dispel the dark magic of the three Furies, which warps reality, allowing them to create illusions such as the city of Sparta at night-time with a moon and a starry sky in the background), Low Multiversal with Soul of Hades and Army of Hades (Both the Soul of Hades and Army of Hades allow Kratos to summon souls from the Underworld, as well as banish his foes to the Underworld, which is a different space-time continuum)
• The Amulet of Ouroboros should have Life Manipulation and Death Manipulation via controlling the life and death of even objects.
• Ghost of Sparta Kratos should have Rage Power in his Innate section (Can push his powers and artefacts beyond their limit by drawing on his rage and hatred, as he did when he froze time with the Amulet of the Fates)

Agree: 3 (ActuallySpaceMan42, Random-Helper323 (Neutral to BFR), Pepsimanlover)

Disagree: 1 (Shion (Resistance to BFR))

Neutral:

 

[Pepsimanslover]

Seen this before. Agree.

 

[Planck69]

@Theglassman12 @KingTempest @Random-Helper323 @DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Nierre @Godernet

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Hecky2222]

Ghost of Sparta Kratos should have Rage Power in his Innate section (Can push his powers and artefacts beyond their limit by drawing on his rage and hatred, as he did when he froze time with the Amulet of the Fates)

I am actually surprised by fact how he doesn't have it

 

[Random-Helper323]

​

• The Blade of Artemis should be changed to "Varies, up to 1-C", since as of this revision, gods and titans are no longer scaling above Primordials by default, making the main claim on the page unknowable. This of course means that it is no longer 1-C in Ghost of Sparta Kratos's hands.

Okay.

• Ragnarok Kratos should have Resistance to BFR via taking a full-powered, enraged blow to the head from Thor with Mjolnir in hand, with the latter's strikes capable of shaking and splintering the Yggdrasil, sending Jormugandr through time itself.

Are we sure that isn't a feature of damaging the tree rather than a passive effect of the hammer? I can see a valid point here, I'm just asking. Neutral at the moment, can I hear a little more context, please?

• Ghost of Sparta Kratos should have his range updated, since it's frankly pretty mid (Standard Melee range for the most iconic chain weapons ever lol). It would thus be changed to;
  • Tens of Meters (The Blades of Chaos can supernaturally extend to distances of several yards. Created a hundred foot wide and deep crater with Poseidon's Rage), Varies from Kilometers to Interstellar with Artefacts (Could use the Amulet of Ouroboros to rebuild Apollo's island statue, even reaching into the bottom of the sea to pull its lantern back. The Eyes of Truth see through and dispel the dark magic of the three Furies, which warps reality, allowing them to create illusions such as the city of Sparta at night-time with a moon and a starry sky in the background), Low Multiversal with Soul of Hades and Army of Hades (Both the Soul of Hades and Army of Hades allow Kratos to summon souls from the Underworld, as well as banish his foes to the Underworld, which is a different space-time continuum)

Okay.

• The Amulet of Ouroboros should have Life Manipulation and Death Manipulation via controlling the life and death of even objects.

Are we sure about this? It's time manipulation, isn't it? It does seem to specifically effect the process of the object breaking though. I'm currently neutral on this. Interested to hear more context.

Update: I guess this is okay as the mechanics and explanation line up. Might be safest to call it somewhat limited though.

• Ghost of Sparta Kratos should have Rage Power in his Innate section (Can push his powers and artefacts beyond their limit by drawing on his rage and hatred, as he did when he froze time with the Amulet of the Fates)

Okay.

 

[Pepsimanslover]

Are we sure about this? It's time manipulation, isn't it? It does seem to specifically effect the process of the object breaking though. I'm currently neutral on this. Interested to hear more context.

That is the explanation behind mechanics of the Amulet so, eh, it is what it says it is.

As for context, the Amulet controls the "Life-Cycle" of both living things and objects, this allows one to essentially review the Life and Death of pretty much everything, heal those in need, etc.

Basically, the game explains away these time powers as a result of controlling Life and Death.

 

[Hecky2222]

Pretty sure, time manipulation can't show life and death.

 

[Random-Helper323]

That is the explanation behind mechanics of the Amulet so, eh, it is what it says it is.

As for context, the Amulet controls the "Life-Cycle" of both living things and objects, this allows one to essentially review the Life and Death of pretty much everything, heal those in need, etc.

Basically, the game explains away these time powers as a result of controlling Life and Death.

If that's the explanation I suppose it could be alright. It does work by travelling through the process of destruction. It kind of resembles causality in a way, but I suppose life cycle via limited life and death manipulation could be okay.

 

[Planck69]

Okay.

Are we sure that isn't a feature of damaging the tree rather than a passive effect of the hammer? I can see a valid point here, I'm just asking. Neutral at the moment, can I hear a little more context, please?

Okay.

Are we sure about this? It's time manipulation, isn't it? It does seem to specifically effect the process of the object breaking though. I'm currently neutral on this. Interested to hear more context.

Update: I guess this is okay as the mechanics and explanation line up. Might be safest to call it somewhat limited though.

Okay.

I'll let Pepsi explain the Amulet stuff but for Thor, I'm not sure it'd make a difference regardless. The BFR happens on him striking his opponent directly with the hammer, splintering the tree as a consequence as we saw against Jormugandr in Ragnarok, not him attacking the tree directly and affecting his opponent by proxy.

 

[ShionAH]

Wouldn't it be better to list it as Time BFR resistance specifically? Because you can obviously send Kratos away by normal distance after punching him hard

More importantly Thor's PnA says its completely random and accidental, so I am confused why this is even a resistance

 

[Planck69]

Wouldn't it be better to list it as Time BFR resistance specifically? Because you can obviously send Kratos away by normal distance after punching him hard

More importantly Thor's PnA says its completely random and accidental, so I am confused why this is even a resistance

That is still BFR, yes. Obviously most characters can still be pushed around.

In the sense of it just being via sheer force of blows and not something he does any time. Which isn't really an issue here since he's bloodlusted against Kratos specifically.

 

[ShionAH]

That is still BFR, yes. Obviously most characters can still be pushed around.

I have seen profiles index it as "Temporal BFR" to not cause confusion.

In the sense of it just being via sheer force of blows and not something he does any time. Which isn't really an issue here since he's bloodlusted against Kratos specifically.

If he is bloodlusted thats even more reason he wouldn't BFR him across time, because... like thats a terrible move if you want to kill someone. Is there any reason for Thor to want to send Kratos 1000 years back in time in the middle of their fight? I'd argue that would make it harder to kill him. Either way its clearly not accepted as something Thor can do on a whim nor do I think it is anyways so I disagree with the BFR resistance.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I'll let Pepsi explain the Amulet stuff but for Thor, I'm not sure it'd make a difference regardless.

Yeah, Pepsi did that.

The BFR happens on him striking his opponent directly with the hammer, splintering the tree as a consequence as we saw against Jormugandr in Ragnarok, not him attacking the tree directly and affecting his opponent by proxy.

Is there anything to suggest his hammer always does that, and/or is there anything to suggest that this happened when the serpent was hit but not any other time?

 

[Planck69]

Yeah, Pepsi did that.

Is there anything to suggest his hammer always does that, and/or is there anything to suggest that this happened when the serpent was hit but not any other time?

Thor doesn't really get into many exchanges where his opponent can tank a blow like this. Almost all his kills against the Jotnar and others are in a single hit in story, and against Kratos the first time around, both were holding back. While with Faye, he was drunk enough to not actually remember it.

The BFR isn't really presented as a special ability of Mjolnir either. He just hit hard enough that it happened (since Mjolnir compounds his blows). Now obviously, I'm not gonna suggest anyone strong as/stronger than Thor does it, which is why I erred on the side of caution and it's just Kratos specifically that gets resistance.

 

[Planck69]

I have seen profiles index it as "Temporal BFR" to not cause confusion.

If he is bloodlusted thats even more reason he wouldn't BFR him across time, because... like thats a terrible move if you want to kill someone. Is there any reason for Thor to want to send Kratos 1000 years back in time in the middle of their fight? I'd argue that would make it harder to kill him. Either way its clearly not accepted as something Thor can do on a whim nor do I think it is anyways so I disagree with the BFR resistance.

It does send Jormugandr to Midgard, so it is spatial as well.

....That's the point. Its via sheer force not conscious effort. You seem to be under the assumption Thor can choose to do this or not.

I'll record your disagree though.

 

[ShionAH]

So why are we randomly assuming Thor specifically did his BFR here and Kratos resisted it? Do we even have proof he can do it on a whim or consistently?

Edit: I just don't see enough evidence for this especially since we don't even have proof if it was through sheer force as far as I know. Nor do we know if he used this much force against Kratos since sending him back in time wouldn't work well in a death battle

 

[Planck69]

So why are we randomly assuming Thor specifically did his BFR here and Kratos resisted it? Do we even have proof he can do it on a whim or consistently?

The BFR is Thor hitting as hard as he can, not a gacha pull. It's at its core just hitting his opponent so hard they go through time. He almost never does this because none of his opponents until Jorm and Kratos really necessitated this level of force (on top of the fact that he's grown stronger over the years).

 

[ShionAH]

You are assuming Thor's BFR comes only from the physical force which I think doesn't really have actual evidence just the wording implies it. Then you are assuming Thor is using this amount of force against Kratos because he is "bloodlusted", but then this makes it more questionable since why would Thor send Kratos away through time if his goal is to kill him? A bloodlusted character that is fully wanting to kill would not resort to BFR, thats fundamentally contradictory because BFR doesn't kill and actively makes it harder to do so...

 

[Planck69]

Edit: I just don't see enough evidence for this especially since we don't even have proof if it was through sheer force as far as I know. Nor do we know if he used this much force against Kratos since sending him back in time wouldn't work well in a death battle

We visibly see him smack Jormugandr through time, which is confirmed to be via his blow.

You are assuming Thor's BFR comes only from the physical force which I think doesn't really have actual evidence just the wording implies it. Then you are assuming Thor is using this amount of force against Kratos because he is "bloodlusted", but then this makes it more questionable since why would Thor send Kratos away through time if his goal is to kill him? A bloodlusted character that is fully wanting to kill would not resort to BFR, thats fundamentally contradictory because BFR doesn't kill and actively makes it harder to do so...

You seem to be self-contradictory here. You question how he can control it, I point out it is via sheer force and that it is not a conscious matter, yet now suddenly he can pick and choose not to?

Thor isn't thinking about anything deeper than that against Kratos. This isn't even the first time he's simply struck an opponent hard regardless of consequences, as Hrimthur's stone shards can attest.

We seem to be going in circles here, so I'll just leave you as disagree.

 

[ShionAH]

We visibly see him smack Jormugandr through time, which is confirmed to be via his blow.

I know. I never said it wasn't, I said there's no proof its SPECIFICALLY ONLY because of the physical force behind it.

You seem to be self-contradictory here. You question how he can control it, I point out it is via sheer force and that it is not a conscious matter, yet now suddenly he can pick and choose not to?

No I am going around to question every possible interpretation. Since you read them in one go you probably think I am saying they are all true at once. Let me put it this way:

• Currently its accepted as random and accidental, which directly debunks your argument since there's no way to know if any of those blows had that factor.

• If we ignore that and say it is on a whim and he can do it just by hitting hard enough then that brings up the question why he would do such thing when he is trying to kill Kratos and is bloodlusted like you said. But sending him across time would do the opposite and actively make it harder for Thor to kill him.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[Pepsimanslover]

I know. I never said it wasn't, I said there's no proof its SPECIFICALLY ONLY because of the physical force behind it.

This is headcanon.

1. It's literally said it's due to him hitting hard.
2. The feat is just him punching.

Literally any other assumption is headacnon.

No I am going around to question every possible interpretation.

So let me get this straight, you are just gonna question everything for the sake of questioning rather than the actual validity being at any level incoherent? Lmao.

Currently its accepted as random and accidental, which directly debunks your argument since there's no way to know if any of those blows had that factor.

Because Thor literally never needed to hit anyone as hard before this lmao.

Furthermore, if you actually idk, correctly quoted the ability as it on the profile instead of cherry picking you'd make it clear it's through force according to the pages lmao.

If we ignore that and say it is on a whim and he can do it just by hitting hard enough then that brings up the question why he would do such thing when he is trying to kill Kratos and is bloodlusted like you said. But sending him across time would do the opposite and actively make it harder for Thor to kill him.

Sure, let's pretend we're the ones Ignoring shit when you couldn't have quoted the first sentence on a ability because it contradicted you.

So Thor, is holding back against Kratos? The same Kratos who he assumes tried to kill his daughter? And he was entirely fine with not holding back against a rando snake who did nothing to his fam? Lmao.

Also he's bloodlusted? And thinking rationally? About how hard he's hitting a guy he's trying to kill? Bro what is this fanfiction.

 

[ShionAH]

So let me get this straight, you are just gonna question everything for the sake of questioning rather than the actual validity being at any level incoherent? Lmao.

Strawman of doom and despair. If you are gonna continue being agressive I am not gonna respond at all.

Sure we can ignore how I am actively telling you that if we accept the profile (and therefore it being force) then we also cannot give this resistance since it also accepts it as completely random, read. On the way there we can also ignore me saying that if we were to say it is force while also ignoring whats accepted then we still have the problem of why Thor would want to BFR Kratos when he wants to kill the guy, read.

You know BFR stands for Battle Field Removal right? Why would someone who wants to KILL instead... send their opponent far away where they cannot even reach. Its absurdly dumb how many assumptions we have to specifically make while ignoring what Thor wants to squeeze out a resistance for Kratos, but I know how it goes so I am gonna leave it.

I am unfollowing since my vote already counted and I made my arguments. Good day.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I agree with everything, but I have the same concerns as Random about the BFR being because the tree was splintered, not just Thor hitting super hard.

 

[Planck69]

I agree with everything, but I have the same concerns as Random about the BFR being because the tree was splintered, not just Thor hitting super hard.

I mean, the tree splintering is because of the latter (with Mimir saying that it was Thor's blow that sent him through time), and the visual of the BFR is Thor knocking Jormugandr directly on his head. What would it specifically take to show its cause of the blow?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I mean, the tree splintering is because of the latter (with Mimir saying that it was Thor's blow that sent him through time), and the visual of the BFR is Thor knocking Jormugandr directly on his head. What would it specifically take to show its cause of the blow?

Mb, I didn't see the videos. Yeah, it's the blow, and not the splintering.

In that case, I don't see any issues with it. Unless there's proof that Thor can do it at will, I would say it just happens when he hits something as hard as he can.

I don't know how many people that gives BFR Resistance to, though.

 

[Pepsimanslover]

I mean, the tree splintering is because of the latter (with Mimir saying that it was Thor's blow that sent him through time), and the visual of the BFR is Thor knocking Jormugandr directly on his head. What would it specifically take to show its cause of the blow?

Don't forget that Thor sent him to the past where the World Tree didn't have that damage yet, so it's unlikely that time travel is the result of hitting the tree as the time through which Thor sent him back literally encompasses the tree.

 

[Planck69]

Mb, I didn't see the videos. Yeah, it's the blow, and not the splintering.

In that case, I don't see any issues with it. Unless there's proof that Thor can do it at will, I would say it just happens when he hits something as hard as he can.

I don't know how many people that gives BFR Resistance to, though.

Not many, if at all. Thor is a top tier that also got stronger over the years, his last actual major battles are Jormugandr and Surtr simultaneously, then Kratos. And you can tell how much more bloodlusted he was against Kratos cause the moment he sees the latter, he just wallops Jorm through time and ends that fight immediately.

 

[Godernet]

• The Blade of Artemis should be changed to "Varies, up to 1-C", since as of this revision, gods and titans are no longer scaling above Primordials by default, making the main claim on the page unknowable. This of course means that it is no longer 1-C in Ghost of Sparta Kratos's hands.

This is fine.

• Ragnarok Kratos should have Resistance to BFR via taking a full-powered, enraged blow to the head from Thor with Mjolnir in hand, with the latter's strikes capable of shaking and splintering the Yggdrasil, sending Jormugandr through time itself.

Ehh, idk if I agree with giving Hax resistances for taking a hit better than someone else.

It's not like he tried to hit him through time, and Kratos has a resistance to being sent through spacetime; Kratos, in that instance, was just tough enough to take the hit without being sent flying.

By this logic, we'd be giving resistance to BFR to anyone who can take a hit that would normally send someone flying out of the battlefield (Like every other time Viltrumites hit each other and don't get sent flying into space)

• Ghost of Sparta Kratos should have his range updated, since it's frankly pretty mid (Standard Melee range for the most iconic chain weapons ever lol). It would thus be changed to;
  • Tens of Meters (The Blades of Chaos can supernaturally extend to distances of several yards. Created a hundred foot wide and deep crater with Poseidon's Rage), Varies from Kilometers to Interstellar with Artefacts (Could use the Amulet of Ouroboros to rebuild Apollo's island statue, even reaching into the bottom of the sea to pull its lantern back. The Eyes of Truth see through and dispel the dark magic of the three Furies, which warps reality, allowing them to create illusions such as the city of Sparta at night-time with a moon and a starry sky in the background), Low Multiversal with Soul of Hades and Army of Hades (Both the Soul of Hades and Army of Hades allow Kratos to summon souls from the Underworld, as well as banish his foes to the Underworld, which is a different space-time continuum)
• The Amulet of Ouroboros should have Life Manipulation and Death Manipulation via controlling the life and death of even objects.

This seems fine too

• Ghost of Sparta Kratos should have Rage Power in his Innate section (Can push his powers and artefacts beyond their limit by drawing on his rage and hatred, as he did when he froze time with the Amulet of the Fates)

This feels like Johnny Storm not having Fire Manip on his profile, easy agree.

 

[Planck69]

Ehh, idk if I agree with giving Hax resistances for taking a hit better than someone else.

It's not like he tried to hit him through time, and Kratos has a resistance to being sent through spacetime; Kratos, in that instance, was just tough enough to take the hit without being sent flying.

By this logic, we'd be giving resistance to BFR to anyone who can take a hit that would normally send someone flying out of the battlefield (Like every other time Viltrumites hit each other and don't get sent flying into space)

I would think that being sent through time and space and just physically being forced elsewhere aren't the same thing though. Kratos regularly gets sent flying by Thor too (he does right after Thor sends Jormungandr back), so it's not quite that simple either.