Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 Cosmology

[Phoenks]

Awesome. 1-A is fine. 2-C is kinda iffy because isn't that a feat of their real selves rather than their avatars?

 

[Seraphor12]

Is that really 1-A? They’re just normal people in the real world with painter powers if I understood the ending properly.

The Canvas’s are just pocket dimensions that the painters make are they not?

It would be like making real world Kirito 1-A to game Kirito, no?

Imo that just removes BDE type 3. But they would still get 1-A through R>F and some hax like Reality Wrapping, Creation, Death & Soul manipulation, Existence Eraser etc. For canvas just being pocket dimensions, bro that's literally the whole point of this CRT to prove that they're lesser realities for painters not just pocket dimensions

 

[Seraphor12]

Awesome. 1-A is fine. 2-C is kinda iffy because isn't that a feat of their real selves rather than their avatars?

I would say that their avatars which are Curator and Paintress would be low 2-C inside of painting because of them being able to control pure chroma and erase entire canvas. 2-C would be for their real selves yeah.

 

[Phoenks]

Imo that just removes BDE type 3. But they would still get 1-A through R>F and some hax like Reality Wrapping, Creation, Death & Soul manipulation, Existence Eraser etc. For canvas just being pocket dimensions, bro that's literally the whole point of this CRT to prove that they're lesser realities for painters not just pocket dimensions

It doesn't remove BDE Type 3. Expedition 33 qualifies for it.

Kirito is a false equivalence because the virtual reality in SAO isn't really fictional comparatively to the real world in SAO which is demonstrated by how in-game effects can have permanent effects on your real life self. The entire premise of the original SAO was that people got trapped in the virtual reality world and would die IRL if their game characters died in the game because of some stuff they did with the VR headsets. The VR itself in SAO is basically just some advanced neurotech that hijacks your brain signals and stuff. Saying that SAO is a reality layer beneath Kirito is like saying your brain signals and nervous system are a reality layer beneath you in real life.

In expedition 33, meanwhile, there is very clearly two distinct layers of reality. And the canvas reality has no bearing on the real life figures. They are nothing more than avatars puppeteered by a higher consciousness. And if they die in a canvas they can just come right back if they want. They could also destroy the entire canvas from the real world if they want to. Since it's just paint.

 

[Ang4I00]

Sure, now we gotta prove those are actual cosmos and not Verso just going “let me paint a sky” without any proper explanation as to why it’s a ******* universe, rather than his own playground to play with his creations on a land with forest and such.

Verso actually used to fly into space with Esquie though.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Verso actually used to fly into space with Esquie though.

good catch

 

[Phoenks]

I would say that their avatars which are Curator and Paintress would be low 2-C inside of painting because of them being able to control pure chroma and erase entire canvas. 2-C would be for their real selves yeah.

Hm.

The thing is I don't recall an actual Low 2-C feat inside of the canvas?

Like yes controlling Chroma gives you pretty much unlimited control over the canvas itself, but do you have evidence to support that they can actually destroy/significantly affect the whole canvas universe at once?

---Oh nvm actually. The world itself being sustained by Verso's avatar painting it is probably enough for Low 2-C.

I think the OP should be changed though because nobody should scale to a 2-C rating. The "hundreds of canvas worlds" refers to the many canvases they made in the real world, I think. They are already 1-A.

 

[Seraphor12]

I think the OP should be changed though because nobody should scale to a 2-C rating. The "hundreds of canvas worlds" refers to the many canvases they made in the real world, I think. They are already 1-A.

I added that 2-C rating for just in case if 1-A is not accepted so they would be still 2-C.

 

[Phoenks]

I added that 2-C rating for just in case if 1-A is not accepted so they would be still 2-C.

oh btw even then it would only be Low 2-C. Since it isn't hundreds at once, but over time. They probably only make one at a time.


(this is lowkey irrelevant though cause it's blatant 1-A)

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

If a world is described as "Parallel" to something that is clearly a Universe, then the "Parallel world" statement is typically a universe by default. Using the Universe page.

• If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+ sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider all of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.

 

[Ang4I00]

Hm.

The thing is I don't recall an actual Low 2-C feat inside of the canvas?

I mean, there are plenty, Alicia creating a full replice of the outside world for Lune inside the Canvas, Verso and Alicia fracturing The Canvas in the final fight, Osquio destroying the world(Canvas)

Dunno if this is appropriate to discuss rn since it's a cosmology CRT though.

 

[Seraphor12]

oh btw even then it would only be Low 2-C. Since it isn't hundreds at once, but over time. They probably only make one at a time.


(this is lowkey irrelevant though cause it's blatant 1-A)

There were multiple canvas in the background here. So maybe it was not one at a time + the only reason renoir wanted to destroy verso's canvas was because of aline being addicted to it, but for other canvas it wouldn't be the case so I don't think there would be any reason to destroy previous canvas for creating new canvas.

 

[Phoenks]

There were multiple canvas in the background here. So maybe it was not one at a time + the only reason renoir wanted to destroy verso's canvas was because of aline being addicted to it, but for other canvas it wouldn't be the case so I don't think there would be any reason to destroy previous canvas for creating new canvas.

I'm saying that they only drew on one canvas at a time rather than creating multiple of them simultaneously which is the requirement for 2-C. Them having multiple canvases in the background doesn't prove simultaneous creation.

 

[Seraphor12]

I'm saying that they only drew on one canvas at a time rather than creating multiple of them simultaneously which is the requirement for 2-C. Them having multiple canvases in the background doesn't prove simultaneous creation.

Where is the requirement that the universes have to be created simultaneously?

The Tiering System says 2-C is for characters who can "significantly affect, create and/or destroy small multiverses composed of two to a thousand separate space-time continuums, or an equivalent". The Universe page also says creation/destruction of multiple timelines or space-time continuums is ranked between 2-C and 2-A depending on the quantity involved. The criteria there is about whether the continuums are separate and whether they qualify as substantial 4D structures. I don't see anything stating that all of them must be created at the same moment.

For example, if a character creates Universe A and later creates Universe B, they've still created two separate space-time continuums. So why would we suddenly stop counting one of them because they weren't made simultaneously.

So, the relevant question would be whether each canvas is its own universe not whether multiple canvases were being painted at the exact same time.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Where is the requirement that the universes have to be created simultaneously?

The Tiering System says 2-C is for characters who can "significantly affect, create and/or destroy small multiverses composed of two to a thousand separate space-time continuums, or an equivalent". The Universe page also says creation/destruction of multiple timelines or space-time continuums is ranked between 2-C and 2-A depending on the quantity involved. The criteria there is about whether the continuums are separate and whether they qualify as substantial 4D structures. I don't see anything stating that all of them must be created at the same moment.

For example, if a character creates Universe A and later creates Universe B, they've still created two separate space-time continuums. So why would we suddenly stop counting one of them because they weren't made simultaneously.

So, the relevant question would be whether each canvas is its own universe not whether multiple canvases were being painted at the exact same time.

overtime universe creation just never counted for anything higher than low 2-c. I dont think this matters anyways when it involves 1-A no need to be hung up on it

 

[Seraphor12]

I dont think this matters anyways when it involves 1-A no need to be hung up on it

Alright