Chainsaw Man discussion thread

[Breadbear83]

Makima and Yoru only have basic resist against Memory manip not 1 layer so like 0 layer, Nayuta/Makima have 1 layer of Memory manip for erasing Yoru's memory and Fear boosted Pochita should as well since she cant remember the things he erased despite previously could

Isn't "1 layer" when there are higher layers? Is just to specify better the layering progression

 

[Bruh]

Isn't "1 layer" when there are higher layers? Is just to specify better the layering progression

No you only get "1 layer" when you can effect people with resist or resist people with such hax. Simply having a baseline resist isnt called a layer, or more accurately you are at layer 0, being able to affect that make you layer 1 and so on

 

[Breadbear83]

For your thread, you should try to add some tags for relevant characters related to it.

hey gunshy in your Asa/Yoru Profile, will you end up adding the summoning speed or why not adding? would it be worder as

Post fear Boost: FTL+ Summoning speed (Completely Blitzed Pochita with the summoning of Gun and Tank Devil across intercontinental distances) (84.84c)
Nuclear Weapons boost: At least FTL+ Summoning speed (should at least be comparable to before, if not faster due to her fear empowerment)

technically could be giving Nuclear weapons yoru a 1.18x upscale to Baseline MFTL as upscaling guidelines allow speed upscaling (havent seen it, but not specified if more strict than AP and LS upscales) but At least FTL+ could be more accurate, as summoning speed is different for any other speed increase that Yoru got

 

[Epiccheev]

Pochita likes(debatable) america because of burgers.
Yoru likes America because they do a lot of war.

 

[Breadbear83]

ok now for real last change on the calc fixes thread, 7 calcs, but last 3 are small, and i have seen threads like this one having a lot of calcs too

hopefully i dont have to pull up a Gunshy on bumping it

 

[GunshyFever]

Snip

Drite said he'd be willing to take a look at it if we do this. But if that feels too complicated, we can always wait for someone willing to read and evaluate it in bulk.

 

[Breadbear83]

Drite said he'd be willing to take a look at it if we do this. But if that feels too complicated, we can always wait for someone willing to read and evaluate it in bulk.

Calc 1 was checked by Eljoaki5 (it's his calc after all) so that doesn't matters

Calc 2 and 3 are in this blog: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Breadbear83/Chainsaw_Man:_Gun_and_Chainsaw_Recalcs

Calc 4 has a blog of the specific pixel scaling issue: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U..._Goddess_Bullet_Weight_and_Recalc#Pixel_calcs

But for calc 5,6 and 7, I'd ask Drite to check them in the thread, too minor stuff, calc 7 isn't even an actual calc fix that would get a blog, it's a clarification to another CGM

But as I get he may not that want to read that much, gonna clean up a bit blogs and the thread to make them shorter and more straight to the point

 

[Epiccheev]

that doesn't matters

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bomba Girl vs Some angry demon (Reze vs Tae Mu-Kang)

Idk I was bored. Speed is equalized. Both are at their strongest, and SBA is assumed. Reze's AP: Above 443 Tons of TNT, 550 Ton attack self-destruction that vaporizes dudes scaling to the previous value. Tae Mu-Kang's AP: Far, far above 55 tons of TNT. Tanked an attack that was far above 55...

vsbattles.com

Would appreciate any input on this match I want some matches for my boy

 

[Breadbear83]

ok now for real last change on the calc fixes thread, 7 calcs, but last 3 are small, and i have seen threads like this one having a lot of calcs too

hopefully i dont have to pull up a Gunshy on bumping it

Drite77 accepted updated fragmentation for calc 2 (but disagreed with timeframe of Calc 3, gotta see if some other CGM thinks the same) Eljoaki5 will eventually update calc 1, so the others are waiting

Hopefully Drite77 evaluates some more in a few days, and better if SundaGamer reads Calc 6 and 7

 

[Kooliooooo]

hi guys

 

[GunshyFever]

Good day

 

[Arkenis]

Hey what are some statements that limit certain speeds in csm? Like anything that disqualifies a speed tier at a certain point or after?

 

[GunshyFever]

Hey what are some statements that limit certain speeds in csm? Like anything that disqualifies a speed tier at a certain point or after?

There are no statements that limit speed. However, for lower tier characters such as Devil Hunters, they are capable of being caught off guard by bullets, but they are shown to compete with them when aware in the middle of a fight, that's all.

 

[Breadbear83]

Hey what are some statements that limit certain speeds in csm? Like anything that disqualifies a speed tier at a certain point or after?

Characters never explicitly say something like "that gun was too fast for me!"

But also of the few direct speed statements, they can be contradicting, a Fiend in Buddy stories is stated to have attack speed of machine guns rounds, but also base Quanxi whos clearly much more powerfull is stated to be faster than sound as a big deal

Considering how the Bat Devil literally has the ability of making a sonic boom (but not directly stated) being not that much faster than sound is only for low tiers, mid tiers can be much faster

 

[Arkenis]

Characters never explicitly say something like "that gun was too fast for me!"

But also of the few direct speed statements, they can be contradicting, a Fiend in Buddy stories is stated to have attack speed of machine guns rounds, but also base Quanxi whos clearly much more powerfull is stated to be faster than sound as a big deal

Considering how the Bat Devil literally has the ability of making a sonic boom (but not directly stated) being not that much faster than sound is only for low tiers, mid tiers can be much faster

Could you send the Buddy story statement? Iirc the Quanxi one was when she fights the dolls?

 

[Breadbear83]

Here's what my physical copy has

Spoiler: Chainsaw Man Buddy Stories: Chapter 3; Pages 138 - 139

In the middle of page 139, theres the machine gun round one

The Quanxi statement:

 

[GunshyFever]

but also base Quanxi whos clearly much more powerfull is stated to be faster than sound as a big deal

Specifically travel speed, Quanxi crouched and started attacking all the mannequins in sight, Kishibe could not see her but the feat itself states that the only sign of Quanxi's movements was a series of dark footprints barely noticeable across floors and walls, with the sound following only afterward amid the tempest and wind that slammed into everyone and everything in the vicinity. It does not discredit anyone else being able to move that fast, but rather just describes how fast she was moving.

Could you send the Buddy story statement? Iirc the Quanxi one was when she fights the dolls?

Here's the physical copy version for safe keeping.

Spoiler: Chainsaw Man Buddy Stories: Chapter 2; Page 100

 

[Arkenis]

Hm, is there more statements like this actually? Manga or novel.

 

[Breadbear83]

Hm, is there more statements like this actually? Manga or novel.

You plan something to do with them?

Really can't think of anything else, the fights in the series are usage of devils powers that aren't at the speed of their original concepts (Gun Devil guns are blatantly hundreds of times faster than real guns)

No specific speed statements of Mach 3 or smth, not a single devil using what may really look like "light" even less being stated as, nor lightning

 

[Arkenis]

You plan something to do with them?

Really can't think of anything else, the fights in the series are usage of devils powers that aren't at the speed of their original concepts (Gun Devil guns are blatantly hundreds of times faster than real guns)

No specific speed statements of Mach 3 or smth, not a single devil using what may really look like "light" even less being stated as, nor lightning

Yeah for general speed scaling on verses. I'm just mining for examples for now. Since CSM doesn't have much, though I will use it for another example, what other verses have pretty blatant speed caps in the form of statements?

 

[Breadbear83]

Yeah for general speed scaling on verses. I'm just mining for examples for now. Since CSM doesn't have much, though I will use it for another example, what other verses have pretty blatant speed caps in the form of statements?

Jjk is the famous one, Dandadan and the 100km/h turbo granny (meant to be a god tier in speed, but honestly there's literally dozens of feats above that, even the anime constantly exxagerates it, one day I'll make a CRT of it)

I think berserk had a guy saying that no one can be faster than lightning

Generally being lower than light is one of the most common ones, Black clover had one too

Also, general statements of a character using sound waves to fight, even thought you can see it as them being subsonic, is never taken literally, with how is common in fiction that characters can speak and hear while fighting at supersonic speeds, it's like they being able to see colors while going at FTL speeds

 

[Breadbear83]

Calc 2 and 4 of the thread are accepted, Drite77 didnt agree for calc 3 and 5, im fine for Calc 5 but Calc 3 could have a different opinion from other CGMs

Eljoaki5 tagged some CGMS to discuss Violent fragmentation for oregon sword (calc 1) but got abandoned...

 

[GunshyFever]

Looking great so far, really hoping we can get that Class M. It would be great for creating a strength disparity.

 

[Breadbear83]

Looking great so far, really hoping we can get that Class M. It would be great for creating a strength disparity.

Gotta see later another CGM for Nail dodges rifle fire calc, Eljaruengies reasoning was correct on distance, but SundaGamer never saw his comment, and in near 2 months he hadn't evaluated any calc in the wiki

Also, unrelated question, Mákima's bangs could send Ppchita to space, aprox up to 1900km, with the last bang before it being close to that

As it was accepted the whole thing of Mákima's bangs being from Gun Devil ability, in reality Makima, Gun Devil, and Yorus bangs would have thousands of kilometers from Makima? They all have the 477km from 20% Gun Devil

If true I'd include it in a minor CRT I planned for Katana man, and so upgrade the High 7A character to 6C from gun goddess weight being recalced

 

[GunshyFever]

If true I'd include it in a minor CRT I planned for Katana man

What specifically about Katana man, regarding his feat I take?

 

[Breadbear83]

What specifically about Katana man, regarding his feat I take?

Nah, giving his human form some actual stats

In base he could take a hit from Power that just somewhat stunned him, that's a durability feat, could make him superior to Pre training denji getting knocked out by power

And in speed, by that scaling he would be faster than Pre training denji

In katana man form I he could throw some slashes of several meters, something like sukuna but not exaggerated, easily a "several meters" range

Also maybe rename his profile as katana man instead of samurai sword, even if official name, everyone recognizes him as katana man, I think even the manga and official media fits into that being his most well know alias

 

[GunshyFever]

In base he could take a hit from Power that just somewhat stunned him, that's a durability feat, could make him superior to Pre training denji getting knocked out by power

You can argue him to be more durable than Pre-Training Denji, which he already is iirc but you are unlikely to get anything more than a "possibly" for his strength, considering that it is not directly shown.

And in speed, by that scaling he would be faster than Pre training denji

This one is a lot weaker. What says Denji that can't be significantly faster? In both Part 1 and Part 2 we see how incredibly fast he can move.

In katana man form I he could throw some slashes of several meters, something like sukuna but not exaggerated, easily a "several meters" range

That feat is actually pretty crazy now that I am looking at how big the slice is compared to Transformed Chainsaw Man's height. If someone calced it I could see the high end reaching tens of meters, but without a calc it's still very easily several meters flat.

I would just be specific that this applies to his katana slashes and not his literal arm and blade length.

Extended melee range with katana's, At least several meters, possibly tens of meters with katana slashes.

Also maybe rename his profile as katana man instead of samurai sword, even if official name, everyone recognizes him as katana man, I think even the manga and official media fits into that being his most well know alias

According to VSBW's page names rules, page titles are meant to prioritize clarity and avoid ambiguity so character pages should generally be titled by the character's actual name rather than being moved purely because an alias is more recognizable. The rules also state that character page titles should be the respective character's name and nothing else unless extra clarification is needed.

On top of that, the Standard Format for Character Profiles already has the name section for the character's true name and common names. So "Katana Man" can simply be listed there as an alias without renaming the entire profile.

 

[Breadbear83]

You can argue him to be more durable than Pre-Training Denji, which he already is iirc but you are unlikely to get anything more than a "possibly" for his strength, considering that it is not directly shown.

This one is a lot weaker. What says Denji that can't be significantly faster? In both Part 1 and Part 2 we see how incredibly fast he can move.

That feat is actually pretty crazy now that I am looking at how big the slice is compared to Transformed Chainsaw Man's height. If someone calced it I could see the high end reaching tens of meters, but without a calc it's still very easily several meters flat.

I would just be specific that this applies to his katana slashes and not his literal arm and blade length.


According to VSBW's page names rules, page titles are meant to prioritize clarity and avoid ambiguity so character pages should generally be titled by the character's actual name rather than being moved purely because an alias is more recognizable. The rules also state that character page titles should be the respective character's name and nothing else unless extra clarification is needed.

On top of that, the Standard Format for Character Profiles already has the name section for the character's true name and common names. So "Katana Man" can simply be listed there as an alias without renaming the entire profile.

The part 1 and 2 Denji are post training, after training with Kishibe it's clear it were relative increases in speed and AP, with how Hybrid denji got stronger without fear boosts, and he getting to hit Kishibe once after training, it's AP for harming him and speed for dealing a hit

I'd say it could be a "likely" over "Possibly", durability would be 9A, but AP and striking Strength as "likely 9A, should be somewhat relative to his durability, and shouldn't be too far from Power and Denji", this do would apply at Powers Class 5 LS

In guess you are right about the Name change, I'd check for the Range calc

 

[GunshyFever]

The part 1 and 2 Denji are post training, after training with Kishibe it's clear it were relative increases in speed and AP, with how Hybrid denji got stronger without fear boosts, and he getting to hit Kishibe once after training, it's AP for harming him and speed for dealing a hit

But what would be the justification for Katana Man being faster? It cannot be based on the fact that he is more durable and "possibly" physically stronger, that is not a real foundation or basis. His speed rating is better off as Unknown due to his lack of feats in base form.

I'd say it could be a "likely" over "Possibly", durability would be 9A, but AP and striking Strength as "likely 9A, should be somewhat relative to his durability, and shouldn't be too far from Power and Denji", this do would apply at Powers Class 5 LS

According to our AP definitions, "Likely" is more solid than "Possibly" because "Likely" requires the probability of the justification being reliable to be favourable, while "Possibly" only requires it to be notable but mild. So I don't think this can just be pushed to "likely 9-A" off the idea that his AP and Striking Strength should be somewhat relative to his durability.

Durability being 9-A does not automatically prove his AP or Striking Strength are also likely 9-A. You would need an actual feat or direct scaling showing that he can harm characters with that level of durability and not just the assumption that his stats should not be too far apart.

The Lifting Strength point is even weaker since VSBW's Lifting Strength page directly says LS is not always proportional to SS or AP, so Class 5 Katana Man would need its own feat or direct scaling.

 

[Breadbear83]

Alright if go for proposing possibly for anything besides durability

For the katana slash range feat, saw the anime version:

If you see it, around 1:30 or something, the manga feat is there, Katana Man pushes denji, and throes a slash that Denji dodges, that's better to work with as the Manga doesn't make it clear where Katana Man was positioned

 

[Breadbear83]

Alright if go for proposing possibly for anything besides durability

For the katana slash range feat, saw the anime version:

If you see it, around 1:30 or something, the manga feat is there, Katana Man pushes denji, and throes a slash that Denji dodges, that's better to work with as the Manga doesn't make it clear where Katana Man was positioned

Nvm, slowing down the video, Denji is dodging the Katana as Katana man rammed against him

So I only have the manga, will see what to fo

 

[Bruh]

Were there any calc regarding 20% GD traveling from the US to Japan to fight Makima relatively quick ?
Side note: i noticed that pre training Denji's metal part could deflect and block bullets that could kill Makima, shouldnt this make his Dura with those part at least 8-A ? Would this create any problems ?

 

[GunshyFever]

Side note: i noticed that pre training Denji's metal part could deflect and block bullets that could kill Makima, shouldnt this make his Dura with those part at least 8-A ? Would this create any problems ?

That would be proposing that bullets in CSM are 8-A which is simply not proven or true. It's best to leave it as PIS.

 

[ElJoaki5]

ok now for real last change on the calc fixes thread, 7 calcs, but last 3 are small, and i have seen threads like this one having a lot of calcs too

hopefully i dont have to pull up a Gunshy on bumping it

You didnt need to do this all at once ill keep getting it some time

 

[Breadbear83]

You didnt need to do this all at once ill keep getting it some time

It's 5 now and 2 and 4 are accepted, 3 and 5 were rejected, but thanks for Drite77 for the help on nearly all of them

Also Do we even need one of the few CGMs that know about the verse to check violent fragmentation of oregon? That's more based on visual interpretations and simple context of the scene, you already agreed with it

 

[Bruh]

It's 5 now and 2 and 4 are accepted, 3 and 5 were rejected, but thanks for Drite77 for the help on nearly all of them

Also Do we even need one of the few CGMs that know about the verse to check violent fragmentation of oregon? That's more based on visual interpretations and simple context of the scene, you already agreed with it

Wait why was the ground toss rejected ?

 

[Breadbear83]

Were there any calc regarding 20% GD traveling from the US to Japan to fight Makima relatively quick ?
Side note: i noticed that pre training Denji's metal part could deflect and block bullets that could kill Makima, shouldnt this make his Dura with those part at least 8-A ? Would this create any problems ?

I pointed that this feat would happen cuz nothing implies the gun devil can teleport, nor a devil contract can choose to summon your devil across continents, but hardly there's a know timeframe, Mákima could had just waited for several minutes for his arrival, maybe the anime could make it clearer

Wait why was the ground toss rejected ?

Drite77 believe just using the ground weight is better, or the old calc that barely gets higher with the 1 second timeframe, if I calculated timeframe he'd said it be better for when the anime comes

I don't agree with that cuz it's visibly indicated that the devil hunter and the zombies barely moved before the the Ground was tossed, clearly below 1 second

 

[Bruh]

I pointed that this feat would happen cuz nothing implies the gun devil can teleport, nor a devil contract can choose to summon your devil across continents, but hardly there's a know timeframe, Mákina could has genueily waited for several minutes for his arrival

What would the speed be if we assumed 30m ?

I don't agree with that cuz it's visibly indicated that the devil hunter and the zombies barely moved before the the Ground was tossed, clearly below 1 second

I also think using KE would fit better since this is a quick throw not simply lifting

 

[Breadbear83]

What would the speed be if we assumed 30m ?

I also think using KE would fit better since this is a quick throw not simply lifting

About 10500km of distance if we assume he starts above the white house (where the president was) and ends in Nikaho (nikaho is a small city so doesn't varies where for the distance)

That's speed of Mach 17, 65% of his current speed

So 5 minutes timeframe would be a significant upscale to Mach 102 but it's still an assumed timeframe