Star Wars canon: Small things and... Paraconsistent/NEP? I Doubt it.

[Phsccarvalho]

Hello

More Jedi precognition scan to add to the Force Manipulation page.

Another scan to justify the life drain effects of Force Lightning.

I'd like to change the initial image on the Force Manipulation page to this one, I think it would look better? It's the Prime Jedi.

These are some things I want to add to the lightsaber combat blog. Technically, this is already on the page in scan format, but check out the scans here.

• If you've noticed, on this blog (which is already accepted), there are some images with rather poor quality. I want to replace them with some of better quality. They will be the same images, just of higher quality.

-

So, I was talking to @ActuallySpaceMan42 and apparently Paraconsistent Physiology is valid for the Force? I think it was because of the part about "the very embodiment of life and death, past and future, everything and nothing," but I'm not sure.

I don't care if it's accepted or not, I'm just curious if it's actually valid or not. Since that checklist thread is only for verses that have already had this accepted before, I was recommended to do a CRT. So let's see what happens. Since I don't understand anything about this power, I'd like someone to ping the ActuallySpaceMan42.

If he ends up not showing up or changes his mind, you can disagree, I don't care. Because it's not as if power is useful without proven immunity.

Here is the full justification from the Force currently accepted on the page for you to check:

(The Force is an invisible, spiritual energy field and a metaphysical power that connects and exists between all things, making life flow, uniting the universe—an energy created by all living beings, which surrounding them, penetrating them, living within them, and being everything, from electrons to planets, is made up of the Force. The Force is the source of all things, reality, as is life, death, rebirth, and everything in between; the very embodiment of life and death, past and future, everything and nothing; a fundamental unit that sustains all creation, containing dualities such as life and death or light and dark, which it holds in balance while also transcending them. The Force is also the consciousness and spirit of a being)

EDIT:
The NEP option was suggested by @ActuallySpaceMan42 as an alternative to PP.

Votes:

---

Agree: (1) @ActuallySpaceMan42 (All and NEP Type 2 & 3, Aspect Type 1 & 2), @Theglassman12 (All and Paraconsistent type 1)

Neutral: (0)

Disagree: (0)

 

[DaReaperMan]

@ActuallySpaceMan42 You have been called, you must answer!

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

type 1

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Re-reading it, I think Type 1 (Everything and nothing) is fine; the other things don't qualify as logical negations. Everything else is good.

 

[Vietthai96]

Can i see the scan for everything and nothing, the force being a power/energy disqualify it from having PP

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Can i see the scan for everything and nothing, the force being a power/energy disqualify it from having PP

(The Force is an invisible, spiritual energy field and a metaphysical power that connects and exists between all things, making life flow, uniting the universe—an energy created by all living beings, which surrounding them, penetrating them, living within them, and being everything, from electrons to planets, is made up of the Force. The Force is the source of all things, reality, as is life, death, rebirth, and everything in between; the very embodiment of life and death, past and future, everything and nothing; a fundamental unit that sustains all creation, containing dualities such as life and death or light and dark, which it holds in balance while also transcending them. The Force is also the consciousness and spirit of a being)

the force being a power/energy disqualify it from having PP

Re-reading it, I think Type 1 (Everything and nothing) is fine; the other things don't qualify as logical negations. Everything else is good.

What do you think about this @ActuallySpaceMan42 ?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Can i see the scan for everything and nothing, the force being a power/energy disqualify it from having PP

I would assume it would count as part of the Cosmology, no? Since it literally makes up reality. It having PP would be like a Void or Realm having NEP.

 

[Vietthai96]

I would assume it would count as part of the Cosmology, no? Since it literally makes up reality. It having PP would be like a Void or Realm having NEP.

No, i guess, as DontTalk disagreed with that logic, in order to qualify for PP, the Force need to be a single thing, not a set of thing, or a type of thing, so the force being cosmology and an encompassing force make it a set of thing, being a power/energy make it a type of thing which disqualify it from having PP. It also being a lot of thing based on the justification and scan so........

But well, if staff just all agree with PP1 then i have nothing to say

 

[Livinmeme]

It is stupid on so many levels that blatant dualities are grouped but denied for PP, but existence and unexistence are accepted, like if they aren't threated on the same goddamn vein.
Yeah I agree

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Ah, I see. It’s basically like how a fictional universe can contain a nonexistent realm, while the universe itself is still existent.

That would not make the universe paraconsistent.

Likewise, even if there were some hidden fundamental substance or energy that makes up both existent and nonexistent things, that would not automatically mean the substance itself is both existent and nonexistent at the same time. It would only mean it can compose or relate to things on either side of that distinction.

For it to qualify as a true contradiction, the same thing would have to be stated to be both existent and nonexistent simultaneously, in the same sense. Only then would it become paraconsistent.

So the issue is that the Force may bind everything, contain everything, and encompass dualities, but that does not necessarily mean the Force itself literally is those dualities. Even if it contains or connects existence and nonexistence, that does not prove it is both existent and nonexistent at once.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Ah, I see. It’s basically like how a fictional universe can contain a nonexistent realm, while the universe itself is still existent.

That would not make the universe paraconsistent.

Likewise, even if there were some hidden fundamental substance or energy that makes up both existent and nonexistent things, that would not automatically mean the substance itself is both existent and nonexistent at the same time. It would only mean it can compose or relate to things on either side of that distinction.

For it to qualify as a true contradiction, the same thing would have to be stated to be both existent and nonexistent simultaneously, in the same sense. Only then would it become paraconsistent.

So the issue is that the Force may bind everything, contain everything, and encompass dualities, but that does not necessarily mean the Force itself literally is those dualities. Even if it contains or connects existence and nonexistence, that does not prove it is both existent and nonexistent at once.

It says it transcends them which necessitates PP as it is neither existent or nonexistent. It's also the "fundamental unity" that underpins existence. So those two dualities exist in oneness with the force.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

but that does not necessarily mean the Force itself literally is those dualities

In this case, the Force is and contains.

Like, it says "contains dualities like life and death," but if you look at other scans, it also says that the Force is life and death, while simultaneously transcending life and death. Besides, the scans say it's the source of all things.

I don't think this changes anything, but it's just to clarify.

If it didn't change anything, should I remove your vote? In that case, I would also remove it from the CRT since it was your opinion that made me include it.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

But well, if staff just all agree with PP1 then i have nothing to say

Most of the dualities listed under the Force don't qualify as logical negations, but it is still stated to embody everything and nothing.

If we assume everything and nothing are one of the dualities it balances and transcends; it could count as NEP Type 2, no?

NEP Type 2 is kinda just PP for Existence and Nonexistence after all.

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm seeing mixed messeges about this whole PP ordeal, ngl

If we assume everything and nothing are one of the dualities it balances and transcends; it could count as NEP Type 2, no?

NEP Type 2 is kinda just PP for Existence and Nonexistence after all.

Didn't being everything and nothing is NEP3, well, still PP1 though

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Didn't being everything and nothing is NEP3, well, still PP1 though

Being both would be NEP Type 3, transcending both would be NEP Type 2.

"It worked amid the chaotic ocean of the Force, the very embodiment of life and death, past and future, everything and nothing."

The Force contains dualities – such as life and death, or light and dark – that it holds in balance while also transcending.

I think counting Everything, and Nothing as dualities it transcends is fair.

 

[Vietthai96]

Being both would be NEP Type 3, transcending both would be NEP Type 2.

That mean NEP 2 & 3 at once. However, i'm not trying to be a jerk but this is assuming that "embodiment" in context mean the Force is literally them

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

@Phsccarvalho

Do you want to go for NEP?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

That mean NEP 2 & 3 at once. However, i'm not trying to be a jerk but this is assuming that "embodiment" in context mean the Force is literally them

The phrase also mentions "life and death," and from other scans we know that the Force is literally them.

Does becoming one with the Force help anything, being the same as becoming everything, everyone everywhere?

In this case: Die = to become one with the Force.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

@Phsccarvalho

Do you want to go for NEP?

Which NEP would that be? Which type?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Which NEP would that be? Which type?

I would go for Type 2, but you can just as easily try for Type 3, as Viett said.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I would go for Type 2, but you can just as easily try for Type 3, as Viett said.

Well, you guys choose which one would be best based on the scans shown. I'm not very experienced with these high-level hax. If you decide on 2 or 3, either one is fine with me.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I also kinda confused on the Para consistent part as well.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Well, you guys choose which one would be best based on the scans shown. I'm not very experienced with these high-level hax. If you decide on 2 or 3, either one is fine with me.

Just got for Type 3, possibly Type 2 if you're unsure.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Just got for Type 3, possibly Type 2 if you're unsure.

ok

 

[Vietthai96]

You can both be Type 2 and 3, it would mean you are paradoxically existence and nonexistence, but the nonexistence part would be at Type 2 level of nature

 

[HammerStrikes219]

No, i guess, as DontTalk disagreed with that logic, in order to qualify for PP, the Force need to be a single thing, not a set of thing, or a type of thing, so the force being cosmology and an encompassing force make it a set of thing, being a power/energy make it a type of thing which disqualify it from having PP. It also being a lot of thing based on the justification and scan so........

But well, if staff just all agree with PP1 then i have nothing to say

To quote the literal page anyway:


“ Paraconsistent Physiology, sometimes also referred to as Nonduality or Transduality, is an ability granted by existing in a state of being that violates the rules of classical logic. Entities with this ability would hence instead operate under the rules of a non-classical logic, frequently a paraconsistent logic and/or many-valued logic. As such they are entities that would usually be viewed as paradoxical.”

I not sure if this would literally qualifies as a logical paradox tbh

 

[Phsccarvalho]

You can both be Type 2 and 3, it would mean you are paradoxically existence and nonexistence, but the nonexistence part would be at Type 2 level of nature

Should I put the same vote as @ActuallySpaceMan42 or a different one?

 

[Vietthai96]

To quote the literal page anyway:


“ Paraconsistent Physiology, sometimes also referred to as Nonduality or Transduality, is an ability granted by existing in a state of being that violates the rules of classical logic. Entities with this ability would hence instead operate under the rules of a non-classical logic, frequently a paraconsistent logic and/or many-valued logic. As such they are entities that would usually be viewed as paradoxical.”

I not sure if this would literally qualifies as a logical paradox tbh

Existence and Nonexistence is literal textbook logical duality. Existence would be P and Nonexistence is non-P/not-P

Should I put the same vote as @ActuallySpaceMan42 or a different one?

I.....don't know? You still need to edit your OP first if you want to argue NEP

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I.....don't know? You still need to edit your OP first if you want to argue NEP

Well, I edited that NEP was suggested by @ActuallySpaceMan42 as an alternative to PP and it seems he voted for NEP. Because he suggested it as a more viable option, it seems.

 

[Vietthai96]

You still get PP1 due to being NEP 2 and 3 anyway

 

[Phsccarvalho]

You still get PP1 due to being NEP 2 and 3 anyway

Well, it would be type 3, possibly 2.

Well, I'm a bit confused.

I am going to sleep now

 

[Vietthai96]

Well, it would be type 3, possibly 2.

You can both be Type 2 and 3, it would mean you are paradoxically existence and nonexistence, but the nonexistence part would be at Type 2 level of nature

You can have Force have Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Types 2 & 3), no need for possibly, type 3 is just paradoxical NEP, it isn't something inferior or superior, only NEP2 is > NEP1, NEP3 is a completely different category of NEP

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Existence and Nonexistence is literal textbook logical duality. Existence would be P and Nonexistence is non-P/not-P


I.....don't know? You still need to edit your OP first if you want to argue NEP

Good example there, but either way, the Force has multiple aspects: The Living Force and the Cosmic Force.


The Living Force is literally all living things in existence.

Even, Old Obi Wan Kenobi has a direct quote from A New Hope regarding the Force.


“It’s a energy field created by all living things.”




1:10 more accurately said too


Later, the Force did get expanded on as well while maintaining what Obi Wan directly state as mentioned in the OP.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Also, I just realized we got a quote regarding both the Cosmic and Living aspect of the Force here.


“ "When you live to be a thousand, young Farzala, you must learn to watch those you care about grow old and die. But this is what it means to be a Jedi, it means we see the bigger picture. [...] When someone dies what do we say?"
"That they become one with the Force!"
"It's not just a metaphor or poem, young Farzala, to make us feel better. Their passing gives life to the Cosmic Force, from which the Living Force springs. The Force is real, yes? It moves through us, we feel it all around, hm? [...] I miss them all. But I cannot be sad that a loved one has become one with the greatest power in the galaxy, because they remain with us, always, through the Force. Nor can I fear the moment it happens to me."

It is from The High Republic Adventures (2021) 7th issue comic book apparently.

I will get a scan later for this part since this seems relevant to the current topic of the Force’s metaphysical nature and all.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I would go for Type 2, but you can just as easily try for Type 3, as Viett said.

You can have Force have Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Types 2 & 3), no need for possibly, type 3 is just paradoxical NEP, it isn't something inferior or superior, only NEP2 is > NEP1, NEP3 is a completely different category of NEP

what do you think? @ActuallySpaceMan42

 

[HammerStrikes219]

IMG 2278 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG 2278 hosted on ImgBB

ibb.co

Okay, I got it now.

The most important part will been this quote.

"It's not just a metaphor or poem, young Farzala, to make us feel better. Their passing gives life to the Cosmic Force, from which the Living Force springs. The Force is real, yes? It moves through us, we feel it all around, hm? [...] I miss them all. But I cannot be sad that a loved one has become one with the greatest power in the galaxy, because they remain with us, always, through the Force. Nor can I fear the moment it happens to me."

From The High Republic Adventures (2021) 7th issue

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Just got for Type 3, possibly Type 2 if you're unsure.

Furthermore, this would be Nature, right? And what about the aspects?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Furthermore, this would be Nature, right? And what about the aspects?

Whatever the Force is stated to be, I guess, I don't know the verse well enough to answer.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Whatever the Force is stated to be, I guess, I don't know the verse well enough to answer.

Well, the thing is, it's many things, like spiritual for example. But would it apply to everything? Since the Force is everything and nothing, would nothingness apply to all its metaphysical aspects? If so, I think it would be nature 1 and 2, but I'm not sure.

You can have Force have Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Types 2 & 3), no need for possibly, type 3 is just paradoxical NEP, it isn't something inferior or superior, only NEP2 is > NEP1, NEP3 is a completely different category of NEP

What do you think of what Vieth said? About being able to be type 2 and 3 at the same time?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Well, the thing is, it's many things, like spiritual for example. But would it apply to everything? Since the Force is everything and nothing, would nothingness apply to all its metaphysical aspects? If so, I think it would be nature 1 and 2, but I'm not sure.

Yeah, that sounds good.

What do you think of what Vieth said? About being able to be type 2 and 3 at the same time?

Sure.