Perfecting Donnerverse Superman's Profile

[Rex_Eckles]

I really like our Donnerverse Superman profile, but there's just one thing that's bothered me for years:

Speed: FTL (Circled around the Earth at these speeds)

But this is wrong, as we all know that Clark time traveled to prevent Lois Lane's death. You may think this may just be a time travel ability and not immeasurable speed, however I would like to point to a statement from The Great Superman Movie Book:

The scan not only mentions that he can time travel via raw speed alone, but it also differentiates this level of speed from him surpassing the speed of light. Therefore, I propose we upgrade Donnerverse Superman to Immeasurable speed.

Now there is a question of whether this applies to his canon key, since the book was published prior to Superman Returns:

However, I would argue it should apply because:
1) The statement references to what happened in Superman the Movie, which is canon to Superman Returns
2) Since the book was released in 1983, the only Superman movies it references are 1, 2, and 3

This is important because, although Superman Returns prevents any movies happening between itself and Superman 2, CW's Crisis on Infinite Earths alludes to an event that happened in Superman 3. Given how finicky Returns is with the time period it takes place in (Within a few years, the world jumps from early 80s era to early 2000s era technology), it's not impossible that Superman 3 occurred after Returns in the canon timeline.

Agree: Ozcantabak

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[Ozcantabak]

Agree of course

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I can't really agree with an solid Immeasurable speed rating; at best it would be flight speed though and actually a downgrade for his reactions/combat speed. But moreover, the context of his time travel was mainly him orbiting planet earth faster than the earth rotates in the opposite direction. Which was based on an outdated theory of time travel, but became popular within the lore in a lot of works at the time.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

I can't really agree with an solid Immeasurable speed rating; at best it would be flight speed though and actually a downgrade for his reactions/combat speed. But moreover, the context of his time travel was mainly him orbiting planet earth faster than the earth rotates in the opposite direction. Which was based on an outdated theory of time travel, but became popular within the lore in a lot of works at the time.

Well, it does directly state that he is breaking the time barrier, and that the time travel is via his speed alone. The spinning Earth thing could just be a visualization of that.

I would imagine he would have to have comparable combat speed, given how he somehow knows when he's reached the right moment and must stop traveling.

If you don't want to go with that, we can still scale his reactions to FTL since he can react while flying and against other kryptonians in both continuities, and since the FTL statement is separate from the time travel, it can still apply as "non time traveling speed".

If we go with that, there's also this statement from the same book about Clark being able to go FTL and even fly across the universe

 

[Hacigeralt]

I agree

 

[Qawsedf234]

I can't really agree with an solid Immeasurable speed rating; at best it would be flight speed though and actually a downgrade for his reactions/combat speed. But moreover, the context of his time travel was mainly him orbiting planet earth faster than the earth rotates in the opposite direction. Which was based on an outdated theory of time travel, but became popular within the lore in a lot of works at the time.

This isn't an Immeasurable speed feat (not enough freedom of movement), but an active time travel power that works by breaking the time barrier.

The most I really see is changing this:

• Time Travel (Can reverse time by flying around the world)

To this

• Time Travel (Can travel through time by breaking the Time Barrier)

The 3.6c showing still happens before the Earth begins to rotate backwards, so it's still a valid speed showing in my view.

Though the better question is if this is even scalable as combat speed.

I would imagine he would have to have comparable combat speed, given how he somehow knows when he's reached the right moment and must stop traveling.

This wouldn't be combat or reaction speed for the same reason that Marty McFly doesn't have immeasurable speed. You need more active showings, such as fighting or showing extreme ease of movement, to get an immeasurable rating.

Also like... this speed rating just doesn't make sense. If Superman has immeasurable speed at all time literally no plot would make sense in any of the movies or subsequent TV shows.

If you don't want to go with that, we can still scale his reactions to FTL since he can react while flying and against other kryptonians in both continuities,

Reacting while flying doesn't mean much unless Superman does active stuff, same with the Kryptonians. It's why Smallville Superman got downgraded from MFTL+, since we couldn't find anything where he does rapid movement during his space flight scenes.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

This isn't an Immeasurable speed feat (not enough freedom of movement), but an active time travel power that works by breaking the time barrier.

The most I really see is changing this:
To this
The 3.6c showing still happens before the Earth begins to rotate backwards, so it's still a valid speed showing in my view.

Okay, fine.

Also like... this speed rating just doesn't make sense. If Superman has immeasurable speed at all time literally no plot would make sense in any of the movies or subsequent TV shows.

The same would be said if he just had the ability to time travel, or being able to travel eleventy kadillion times faster than he could react.

Anyways, at the very least, Superman has reacted to Non flying at him during combat, Non having no reason to hold back his speed. So we can scale some sort of flight speed to his reaction speed.

I also just realized that Superman should probably get Speed of Light attack speed given his heat vision is identical to Zods, which travels in a straight line, heats up objects, and reflects off mirrors.

 

[Ozcantabak]

Reacting while flying doesn't mean much unless Superman does active stuff, same with the Kryptonians. It's why Smallville Superman got downgraded from MFTL+, since we couldn't find anything where he does rapid movement during his space flight scenes.

This fight has both (Tyler and Routh) Superman reacting to each others flight speed and doing maneuvers mid flight, and we know Routh's Supes was bloodlusted cause he was mind controlled.