Rivals of Aether Cleanup

[Comiphorous]

I saw that the verse had NOTHING. No supporters, No calcs listed on the verse page (even though there are in fact calcs), and no references. I'm going to clean it up, and I'd appreciate help.

The biggest issue i've seen is scaling. I get it's a fighting game, but not everyone's equal and it's obvious through the story mode. Playing through the story, it's also clear that the only fights that are 'canon' in them are the final 'rival' fight and what's shown inside the cutscenes. The fights that aren't either of those two things are filler stuff between cutscenes.

Spoiler: Fights that actually happened in the story

Zetterburn vs Orcane

Forsburn vs Zetterburn

Maypul vs Forsburn

Kragg vs Maypul

Wrastor vs Kragg

Orcane VS Wrastor

As you might have noticed, Absa and Sylvanos (the two characters with tier 7 capabilities) are not present in this list. They never fight in the story. Nobody fights either of those two canonically.

Now that begs the question, if Absa and Sylvanos never fought in the story, what about the people who did? Well here's the full list of calcs for the verse;

Spoiler: Calcs for the verse

Absa creates storm/Sylvanos controls a forest (Large Mountain level/Mountain level)

Zetterburn sets Merchant Port ablaze (Building level) - This is not evaluated

General Kragg feats (Small Building level, Subsonic)

Currently, their next best for those fights is 9-A. Tier 9 to Tier 7 is a pretty big jump...

 

[Steve1775]

So you are suggesting that all the pages besides those two should be downgraded to 9-A?

 

[Comiphorous]

So you are suggesting that all the pages besides those two should be downgraded to 9-A?

Basically yeah. Unless of course theres a reason for them to scale to those two that i missed in game.

 

[Comiphorous]

Currently, as i understand, this is how the scaling more or less should be;

9-As who scale to Kragg's physicals due to fighting him/taking hits from opponents that did;

• Zetterburn
• Orcane
• Wrastor
• Kragg (Obviously)
• Forsburn
• Maypul

9-As who don't appear in the main story but have statements in their description on the Rivals of Aether website/in the lore that more or less say they scale to one faction or another that makes them scale to Kragg;

• Elatus
• Ranno
• Elliana
• Ori and Sein
• Shovel Knight
• Mollo
• Hodan
• Pomme
• Olympia

As you can tell, this is most of the cast besides three. Shovel Knight does technically specify the Rivals of Aether roster in his description, so you could make an argument he scales to High 7-A due to being able to harm the three below.

High 7-As - Scales to Absa's storm

• Absa (Obviously)
• Clairen (Can fight and survive hits from Loxodont, who should be superior to Absa due to taking control of almost all of Aether with their power.)
• Sylvanos
• Shovel Knight (There is an argument for it but it's lowkey stupid so who cares lol)

 

[The_Renegade_Slugger]

And all the characters being equal in the gameplay itself isn't acceptable?

 

[Comiphorous]

And all the characters being equal in the gameplay itself isn't acceptable?

Story mode takes priority for scaling on the wiki, so it probably wasn’t.

 

[The_Renegade_Slugger]

Story mode takes priority for scaling on the wiki, so it probably wasn’t.

Takes priority sure, but does one invalidate the other? If in the lore the tier 7's completely stomp the tier 9's that's one thing, but if they never fight in the story mode and the gameplay has them as equal, is that unusable for scaling?

 

[Comiphorous]

Takes priority sure, but does one invalidate the other? If in the lore the tier 7's completely stomp the tier 9's that's one thing, but if they never fight in the story mode and the gameplay has them as equal, is that unusable for scaling?

And you don't think having tier 9s jump to tier 7 based off the fact that they might be able to fight each because gameplay? It's a huge outlier for a verse consistently in the tier 9 to maybe 8 range to jump to tier 7 because of a character nobody's canonically met before because she secludes herself from the turmoil of the rest of the world.

 

[The_Renegade_Slugger]

And you don't think having tier 9s jump to tier 7 based off the fact that they might be able to fight each because gameplay? It's a huge outlier for a verse consistently in the tier 9 to maybe 8 range to jump to tier 7 because of a character nobody's canonically met before because she secludes herself from the turmoil of the rest of the world.

I think it's reasonable that to assume that, narratively, all the characters in the fighting game are able to fight each other, if nothing in the lore contradicts this

 

[Comiphorous]

I think it's reasonable that to assume that, narratively, all the characters in the fighting game are able to fight each other, if nothing in the lore contradicts this

There is no narrative to support that. There are only 6 characters who are narratively comparable to each other. The rest of them have no relation to the narrative and have a short summary of what they were doing while the first 6 were fighting. Even the comics that were made focus on the future stuff that happen with Clairen. They might as well not even be super relevant to the very bare bones story that exists for this game unless i am missing something.

Why would we scale everyone from tier 9 to tier 7 based off an assumption?

 

[The_Renegade_Slugger]

There is no narrative to support that. There are only 6 characters who are narratively comparable to each other. The rest of them have no relation to the narrative and have a short summary of what they were doing while the first 6 were fighting. Even the comics that were made focus on the future stuff that happen with Clairen. They might as well not even be super relevant to the very bare bones story that exists for this game unless i am missing something.

Why would we scale everyone from tier 9 to tier 7 based off an assumption?

I just think it's an outstandingly reasonable assumption. It's a game about people fighting each other, they all fight each other in the game. I think two characters not interacting in the extremely limited pool of lore shouldn't disqualify them from scaling.

 

[The_Renegade_Slugger]

Shovel Knight does technically specify the Rivals of Aether roster in his description, so you could make an argument he scales to High 7-A

Also could you slide over this statement? Depending on the wording I think you could argue Shovel Knight acts as a bridge to scale everybody.

If he's comparable to everyone on the roster:
SK~= X
SK ~= Y
X ~= Y

 

[Comiphorous]

I just think it's an outstandingly reasonable assumption. It's a game about people fighting each other, they all fight each other in the game. I think two characters not interacting in the extremely limited pool of lore shouldn't disqualify them from scaling.

We aren't just gonna guess that they might scale to that stuff with no proof, lol. If the character canonically only learned to fight on the off chance they might need to use it, but very much haven't since they were introduced to the game there isn't any reason to scale the rest of the cast to them. The giant storm is still in the mountains in game during the story, so clearly she's still just chilling up there during the actual events of the game.

And that isn't even getting into Absa's magic being hyped up like hell and wouldn't make sense that this "unstoppable protection" is actually not unstoppable to like 90% of the reason it was even put up in the first place.

Also could you slide over this statement? Depending on the wording I think you could argue Shovel Knight acts as a bridge to scale everybody.

If he's comparable to everyone on the roster:
SK~= X
SK ~= Y
X ~= Y

If you need to use a guest character to bridge the canon characters together to scale to each other the chances of them actually scaling to each other gets even lower.

 

[The_Renegade_Slugger]

And that isn't even getting into Absa's magic being hyped up like hell and wouldn't make sense that this "unstoppable protection" is actually not unstoppable to like 90% of the reason it was even put up in the first place.

This is a good argument. I wasn't aware of this statement

 

[The_Renegade_Slugger]

If you need to use a guest character to bridge the canon characters together to scale to each other the chances of them actually scaling to each other gets even lower.

I was more arguing in the sense that like, it's better than literally nothing and just arguing about subjective interpretation. I'd still like to see it though.