The Long awaited Speed downgrade of New 52 Flash

[FroYoSans]

I'm going to be honest, you gotta relax on how you're approaching this thread. It's very easy to miss information here because of the way you express yourself and how you're talking to others. I rolled my eyes while trying to read what you got to say and it makes people not want to interact with the thread, or you in general. Take a breath or two first.

I've taken many a breaths. The fact of the matter is many anti feats are being directly ignored in favor of a chain scale. He doesn't move at MFTL+ speeds.

 

[FroYoSans]

So this entire thread is unecessary as this is our editing guidelines:

I was not aware of this. I also think that's stupid itself lol, why would just the term "Speed" refer to Combat speed before all else? Despite multiple travel speed feats being primary references for characters? Regardless my point stands his speed should be separated. He simply doesn't run that fast

 

[LaserPrecision]

Not here to agree or disagree with anything, but the femtosecond statement seems more like a perception speed statement than a combat/travel/reaction speed one. His body can perceive stimuli in that timeframe and can activate abilities like his vibration stuff in that timeframe. But it doesn't say anything about moving in that timeframe (And the feat itself has him I presume vibrating to have the bullet phase through his skull).

Anyways, that one feat of Flash speed-freezing bullets and moving in microseconds seems impressive, so I'll do a calc here for ya.

• object size * panel height in pixels/[object height in pixels*2*tan(70deg/2)]
• 1.8288 * 262/[121*2*tan(70deg/2)] = 2.82764807264 meters (imo, he looks further than that, but I assume that's because angsizing assumes comic book panels are square, not rectangular. So this is probably fairly lowballed)
• 2.82764807264/0.000001 = 2,827,648.07264 m/s (Mach 8,243.8) = Massively Hypersonic+

Since that's likely fairly conservative (Not by an order of magnitude or anything crazy) I'll calculate the other one where Flash sprints a good distance in 3 microseconds (He makes 3 separate trips to save all the soldiers).

• 29.4+32.2+39.6 = 101.2 meters
• 101.2/0.000003 = 33,733,333.3333 (Mach 98,347.9) [0.1125c] = Relativistic

Hopefully that helps a bit.

 

[FroYoSans]

Because he does it in space doesn't mean or address anything? Clark's combat is consistanly shown to scale to the speed he flies at. It narratively makes no sense for someone like Reign to be blitz lvl above Barry Allen in the New 52

Yes it does they don't move that fast on Earth, no one flies or runs that fast on Earth. Sure, I'd agree, to bad the feats shown in his own run don't showcase this, Barry Allen in the New 52 is given all of 0, I repeat 0 MFTL+ running feats, not a singular one. Yet for some reason, someone who probably hasn't read his run, is trying to argue he does. Weird...

Most of these aren't even at top speed or were already addressed by Qawsef. Some of them (like dodging lighting stuff) isn't even an anti fea

Yep and some of them are, Dodging lightning is blatantly not FTL or even close however, it's to showcase that things like MHS are vastly more consistent in his own run

What's the point of the CRT then? The Speed displayed on the wiki refer to his combat speed, not necesserally travel speed, yet you want to change it to MFTL+ Reaction Speed then you say you don't care about the combat speed scaling

I've made it clear I'm talking about travel speed, on multiple occasions. Because of the scaling chain him having MFTL+ combat and reactions is fine.

The writers of DC clearly intended for Speedsters to be massively above the general mid tiers of the verse, the One Minute war is a peak example of this

So would Simon Spurrier's run, that doesnt change both of those things take place almost a decade after the New 52, Spurrier's run over a decade

Even by ignoring Supes, the Lanterns has been pulling MFTL+ feats while casual. Yes, they do hit those speed rating while going at "normal speeds"

Once again in space and once again Flash doesn't have any feats of his own to show he can move this fast. Also general DC writers have these inconsistencies constantly

Yet he has consistant scaling to MFTL+ Combat/Reaction speeds, and he has more than just 1 MFTL+ direct feat in his solo run btw, like with viewing the 100 Petaflops Supercomputer as slow

I already said the point of the thread was Movement speed. Also congrats, a single other MFTL+ feat, that's 2 now. Also not a movement speed feat

A casual Superman still performs MFTL+ feats and scale to other Lanterns pulling the same feats

What's your definition of "casual" most of the time he's Performing MFTL+ feats he's in battle or trying to get home. Those aren't casual circumstances

The ice feat is litterally an offguard if anything. His attention was clearly focused on Batman as normally he would be able to blitz the gun and Batman

Once again "The Femtosecond he feels a change in the air pressure around him" not to mention the entire reason he survived the sniper bullet while BEING off guard is the instinctive reaction

She was not caught by suprise and she attacked him beforehand

I don't remember that turn of events when reading that, I could've sworn that she hadn't even fought Flash yet, but sure I'll take your word for it.

Off guard of doom

The sniper bullet was off guard as well

 

[FroYoSans]

Not here to agree or disagree with anything, but the femtosecond statement seems more like a perception speed statement than a combat/travel/reaction speed one. His body can perceive stimuli in that timeframe and can activate abilities like his vibration stuff in that timeframe. But it doesn't say anything about moving in that timeframe (And the feat itself has him I presume vibrating to have the bullet phase through his skull).

It's a Reaction speed feat, instinctive reaction specifically for if he does get off-guarded, like the feat in question where he's to busy in speed mind to realize he's getting hit with a sniper bullet. Also no he just dodges it, there's no vibration as far as im aware.

Anyways, that one feat of Flash speed-freezing bullets and moving in microseconds seems impressive, so I'll do a calc here for ya.

I appreciate the calc however they never move in microseconds, the time is a year, days, hours, minutes, seconds timer. The only time a microsecond is mentioned is when the nuke initially goes off which is in reference to how fast the fusion/fission process takes place in an irl nuke. So unfortunately neither calc can be used

 

[FroYoSans]

To further add onto my movement speed point in his last arc of his 52 issues in issue 51 THIS happens

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I was not aware of this. I also think that's stupid itself lol, why would just the term "Speed" refer to Combat speed before all else? Despite multiple travel speed feats being primary references for characters? Regardless my point stands his speed should be separated. He simply doesn't run that fast

Because the said feats are used to scale to their combat speed. No, them going back home isn't a feat of them going at the top of their speed (most of the time) and I really don't see a point in this anymore, given that even by pure travel speed, Flash can reach Immeasurable lvls of speed to time travel

 

[LaserPrecision]

It's a Reaction speed feat, instinctive reaction specifically for if he does get off-guarded, like the feat in question where he's to busy in speed mind to realize he's getting hit with a sniper bullet. Also no he just dodges it, there's no vibration as far as im aware.

Ah, the scan made it seem like it went through his head so I was confused. Yeah, that'd be a reaction speed feat.

I appreciate the calc however they never move in microseconds, the time is a year, days, hours, minutes, seconds timer. The only time a microsecond is mentioned is when the nuke initially goes off which is in reference to how fast the fusion/fission process takes place in an irl nuke. So unfortunately neither calc can be used

Ah, really? The timer lines up perfectly with the microsecond statement tho. Since if the first thing were seconds, the last digit place would be exactly a microsecond. Not to mention if the smallest timeframe is a second, the feats ther become completely impossible to achieve. The second feat would be Flash moving at 33 m/s (Subsonic) and he was moving much faster than the explosion which would make the nuke below average human level in speed. The bullets from the guns would also only be moving at below average human speed level, and the humans would be comically slow.

And that all obviously seems wrong.

 

[FroYoSans]

Ah, really? The timer lines up perfectly with the microsecond statement tho. Since if the first thing were seconds, the last digit place would be exactly a microsecond. Not to mention if the smallest timeframe is a second, the feats ther become completely impossible to achieve. The second feat would be Flash moving at 33 m/s (Subsonic) and he was moving much faster than the explosion which would make the nuke below average human level in speed. The bullets from the guns would also only be moving at below average human speed level, and the humans would be comically slow.

And that all obviously seems wrong.

Unfortunately that is the case as shown later in Captain Atom, unless for some reason youd like to argue that the clock of humanity started in the microseconds for some reason?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Unfortunately that is the case as shown later in Captain Atom, unless for some reason youd like to argue that the clock of humanity started in the microseconds for some reason?

I found the issue the timer comes from. I'm pretty sure it's a microsecond. A scan you left out of the OP shows that 1 unit of time elapses and then they proceed to narrate that 1 microsecond had passed:

Timer: 258:07:21:11
It's a nuclear warhead. Can't see it, but I can feel it... like hairs standing up on the back of my neck. The process-- It's starting. The primary explosion... The compression of the plutonium... the fusion of the uranium. This is a suicide mission.
Timer: 258:07:21:12
In that microsecond, the situation goes supercritical.

So we can see the timeframe, at least within this sequence is meant to be a microsecond. This also explains why everything but Flash and Captain Atom are moving in super slow-mo. Otherwise the implication would be that the nuclear explosion is slower than a normal person walking, bullets are slugs, and humans take months to move a few feet.

My guess is just for this sequence they changed the timer to be a measure starting from seconds. Which makes sense given the context of this entire sequence taking place in essentially an instant and involves speedsters. It's corroborated by statement in the issue itself at that.

 

[FroYoSans]

Because the said feats are used to scale to their combat speed. No, them going back home isn't a feat of them going at the top of their speed (most of the time) and I really don't see a point in this anymore, given that even by pure travel speed, Flash can reach Immeasurable lvls of speed to time travel

He "can" when he's in the speed force, not on Earth, in order to time travel, in the New 52 specifically it is VERY narratively consistent in his solo runs that moving FTL is how you time travel. It's why I'm impressed the writers throughout his run actually paid enough attention to not make him run FTL like ever except when he's going into the Speed Force which is just time itself, and a couple other things, but mostly it's just a collection of time. Truly he doesn't have Immeasurable speed in the New 52 except when in the Speed Force

 

[FroYoSans]

I found the issue the timer comes from. I'm pretty sure it's a microsecond. A scan you left out of the OP shows that 1 unit of time elapses and then they proceed to narrate that 1 microsecond had passed:

Dude I read the thing, I know where it comes from. The timer is in years, days, hours, minutes and seconds. Also yes I left out that scan because that scan isn't relevant to their speed feat. The microsecond is LITERALLY in relation to the nuclear bomb going off, Captain Atom is literally saying this to you.

So we can see the timeframe, at least within this sequence is meant to be a microsecond. This also explains why everything but Flash and Captain Atom are moving in super slow-mo. Otherwise the implication would be that the nuclear explosion is slower than a normal person walking, bullets are slugs, and humans take months to move a few feet.

It is not meant to be a microsecond, it is not implied or stated anywhere that the timer has changed. Also the shockwaves of a nuclear bomb traditionally fly at between Mach 2 and 5, which is still faster than any rifle bullet which they also see in slow-mo. Literally the only way for this timer to be a microsecond timer would be if it were a "Seconds, Deciseconds, Centiseconds, Miliseconss and Microseconds" which entirely ignores the order of the clock, you'd have 6574 seconds, which is straight up preposterous, 255 deciseconds, 07 centiseconds, 21 miliseconds and 12 microseconds. Nothing is adding up here and based on these numbers we're not even close to a minute! I mean a microsecond is 1/1,000,000th of a second and yet the seconds are only at 6574? I keep on telling you the timer is very explicitly a "years, days, hours, minutes, seconds" timer, it has the proper slots for all of that, up to 365 days, 24 hours, 60 minutes and 60 seconds, with currently 4 digits for Human civilization since we haven't gone beyond that.

My guess is just for this sequence they changed the timer to be a measure starting from seconds. Which makes sense given the context of this entire sequence taking place in essentially an instant and involves speedsters. It's corroborated by statement in the issue itself at that.

It's just not the case though, the numbers wouldn't make any sense in the timer. You know it can take place in "essentially an instant" and move in seconds right? They're still stating bullets while only a second moves by for them. Also no its not i already told you what the microsecond was for, you can look this up, it's for the initial fusion/fission reaction which takes place in a microsecond.

We are told towards the start of the sequence that "Time stretches, hours, minutes seconds. They start to lose their meaning altogether. My world is between the one everyone else lives in." Also notice how the timer later matches the one we're shown exactly? Nothing was changed for the sequence

 

[LaserPrecision]

It's just not the case though, the numbers wouldn't make any sense in the timer. You know it can take place in "essentially an instant" and move in seconds right? They're still stating bullets while only a second moves by for them. Also no its not i already told you what the microsecond was for, you can look this up, it's for the initial fusion/fission reaction which takes place in a microsecond.

We are told towards the start of the sequence that "Time stretches, hours, minutes seconds. They start to lose their meaning altogether. My world is between the one everyone else lives in." Also notice how the timer later matches the one we're shown exactly? Nothing was changed for the sequence

I mean I'll take your word for it. It's just the entire sequence makes literally zero sense under that timeframe. The first feat I calculated would have Flash walking at a normal human pace, and yet somehow everyone around him got perception blitzed and was frozen? Is the entire world below average human speed except for Flash and Captain Atom?

I mean let me show you the math so you can see what I mean:

• 14.6/3 = 4.86 m/s

The slowest nuke known to mankind

A human would be able to outrun this. But obviously going by the math the humans here would be like less than 0.1 m/s in speed and everything just makes no sense.

 

[AyOgUyS]

LaserPrecision makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[FroYoSans]

I mean I'll take your word for it. It's just the entire sequence makes literally zero sense under that timeframe. The first feat I calculated would have Flash walking at a normal human pace, and yet somehow everyone around him got perception blitzed and was frozen? Is the entire world below average human speed except for Flash and Captain Atom?

It's just to show how fast they're moving, while everything else is happening they're statuing bullets and gunfire while only a second passes for the real world. To them they're spending more time on this but the rest of the world is frozen, they live "in-between" the seconds, no one is noticing them.

I mean let me show you the math so you can see what I mean:

• 14.6/3 = 4.86 m/s

The slowest nuke known to mankind

Sure but that's why pixel scaling a speed feat like this is flawed, authors aren't always going to accurately draw things to scale like that. Also you refuse to acknowledge that if we did follow your assumption it'd be the fastest Nuke ever, since the initial reaction is the only thing that happens in a microsecond and the blast afterwards happens at around Mach 2-5. It's why you take the speed of the explosion and match it with irl values as opposed to pixel measuring or why the most important thing about the feat is the statuing of bullets, they can move plenty of meters before the bullet covers a few inches

A human would be able to outrun this. But obviously going by the math the humans here would be like less than 0.1 m/s in speed and everything just makes no sense.

Hence why we don't usually rely on just pixel scaling for something like this

 

[FroYoSans]

LaserPrecision makes a lot of sense to me.

I would love for you to explain why

 

[LaserPrecision]

It's just to show how fast they're moving, while everything else is happening they're statuing bullets and gunfire while only a second passes for the real world. To them they're spending more time on this but the rest of the world is frozen, they live "in-between" the seconds, no one is noticing them.

I get that, but there are times where Flash just outright takes a second to move from point a to point b. He walks up to that soldier from a few meters away in 1 second. That would be an average human pace and the dude and his gun were statued by that somehow.

Sure but that's why pixel scaling a speed feat like this is flawed, authors aren't always going to accurately draw things to scale like that. Also you refuse to acknowledge that if we did follow your assumption it'd be the fastest Nuke ever, since the initial reaction is the only thing that happens in a microsecond and the blast afterwards happens at around Mach 2-5. It's why you take the speed of the explosion and match it with irl values as opposed to pixel measuring or why the most important thing about the feat is the statuing of bullets, they can move plenty of meters before the bullet covers a few inches

Uh, pixel scaling is how we decide every stat on the wiki bar explicit statements on speed/ap. You don't even need pixel scaling to know that is comically slow. That's like the CW writers thinking low mach speeds can travel across the entire planet several times in a second. Or them getting energy translations completely wrong. If the blastwave were anywhere near the speed of sound that distance would've been crossed in a split fraction of a second.

But if you are certain those are seconds and not microseconds I'll take your word for it. If you can give me a reliable source on the speed of a nuclear explosion's blastwave, I can use that to calculate Flash's speed. It should bare minimum be MHS+ results, maybe Sub-Relativistic.

Hence why we don't usually rely on just pixel scaling for something like this

What do you mean we don't usually rely on pixel scaling for smth like this? We do for everything on the wiki. That's like the standard. Otherwise the feat can't be used if it can't be calculated/estimated so it wouldn't be a feat or anti-feat.

 

[FroYoSans]

I get that, but there are times where Flash just outright takes a second to move from point a to point b. He walks up to that soldier from a few meters away in 1 second. That would be an average human pace and the dude and his gun were statued by that somehow.

Yeah these same soldiers are also firing bullets, this is an active war zone! There is constant gun fire, tank movement, etc, all of these things are faster than normal people and all of them are in slow-mo, plus you're still ignoring that they're statued, to them they're not moving.

Uh, pixel scaling is how we decide every stat on the wiki bar explicit statements on speed/ap.

It is literally not, you wouldn't be using Pixel scaling to calc something like A-Train's slow-mo feat during The Boys S5 Ep 1. I've seen the calc page there are alternatives, one of them being ang-sizing.

You don't even need pixel scaling to know that is comically slow. That's like the CW writers thinking low mach speeds can travel across the entire planet several times in a second. Or them getting energy translations completely wrong.

Wow it's almost like writers aren't really thinking about real world implications when making their cool superhero scenes. You know earlier in this same comic Captain Atom flew from Houston to Libya in a second

If the blastwave were anywhere near the speed of sound that distance would've been crossed in a split fraction of a second.

You can make this same reasoning for just about anything. Hell it works in the reverse too, Wally's big nuke feat that's 13 trillion times FTL yet Is a "hairs breadth short of light speed" or how about in this very series? If Flash is actually Massively Hypersonic-Rel+ why does he have any trouble searching Central City for Riddler's guns? Etc etc, Comic Books are full of these types of inconsistencies. You know when reading Flash:Rebirth, Post Crisis Barry the same dude who's supposed to be MFTL+ was stated by the Future Rogues (who are actually cops in the future) to be able to go from 0 to faster than sound in...60 SECONDS a full MINUTE.

But if you are certain those are seconds and not microseconds I'll take your word for it. If you can give me a reliable source on the speed of a nuclear explosion's blastwave, I can use that to calculate Flash's speed. It should bare minimum be MHS+ results, maybe Sub-Relativistic.

Blast Wave is faster than Sound
Blast Wave is faster than Sound
Blast Wave is faster than Sound
Blast Wave moves faster than sound

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yeah these same soldiers are also firing bullets, this is an active war zone! There is constant gun fire, tank movement, etc, all of these things are faster than normal people and all of them are in slow-mo, plus you're still ignoring that they're statued, to them they're not moving.

This doesn't address my point at all. I said the soldiers were statued. My concern was the fact that Flash moving at normal human speeds is somehow statuing soldiers. The only way this would be possible is if they were moving as fast as slugs. We're shown Flash travels a few meters in 1 seconds as shown by the timer.

It is literally not, you wouldn't be using Pixel scaling to calc something like A-Train's slow-mo feat during The Boys S5 Ep 1. I've seen the calc page there are alternatives, one of them being ang-sizing.

You can tho? Almost every slow mo feat on the wiki uses pixel scaling. I have several, and the calculation page even tells you to use pixel scaling for slow mo feats. Angsizing is a form of pixel scaling. It involves pixel scaling a reference object and the panel height (I did it above in the calculations I sent).

Wow it's almost like writers aren't really thinking about real world implications when making their cool superhero scenes. You know earlier in this same comic Captain Atom flew from Houston to Libya in a second

This isn't a matter of authors not considering real world implications, this is a case of authors apparently not having common sense and believing humans are moving as fast as slugs and a nuclear explosion is happening at a normal jogging pace.

He did not fly from Houson to Libya in a second. The timer started at 257:17:12:44 and ended at 258:07:20:45. That would mean it took him around a year to go from Houston to Libya. Where is a second coming from?

You can make this same reasoning for just about anything. Hell it works in the reverse too, Wally's big nuke feat that's 13 trillion times FTL yet Is a "hairs breadth short of light speed" or how about in this very series?

With that you can at least explain it as maybe the author misunderstanding the speed of light and relativity and thinking going close to the speed of light slows time down infinitely (It doesn't). Also, funny enough someone asked the author about this mentioning that this would be impossible under the speed of light and the author admitted it would require them to be faster than light to do it (It was years ago tho, but I do recall it). So the author of that issue acknowledges that should be faster than light.

If Flash is actually Massively Hypersonic-Rel+ why does he have any trouble searching Central City for Riddler's guns? Etc etc, Comic Books are full of these types of inconsistencies.

If he's MHS, he's not going to be fast enough to stop drones all over the city in the hundreds. Hell, I think he would have trouble stopping hundreds of bullets scattered throughout the city simultaneously. That wouldn't be an inconsistency, that's something that would reasonably be difficult for that range of speed.

Blast Wave is faster than Sound

I need an exact number. Faster than sound could be any speed, I need a more concrete number.

Blast Wave is faster than Sound

This is the shockwave/overpressure of a blast. I need the speed of the fireball since we see the fireball expanding in the sequence.

Blast Wave is faster than Sound

Also the shockwave

Blast Wave moves faster than sound

Also seems to be the shockwave.

 

[FroYoSans]

This doesn't address my point at all. I said the soldiers were statued. My concern was the fact that Flash moving at normal human speeds is somehow statuing soldiers. The only way this would be possible is if they were moving as fast as slugs. We're shown Flash travels a few meters in 1 seconds as shown by the timer.

He isn't he's blatantly using super speed. They're both blatantly using super speed. The soldiers and bullets are statued, everything Is statued. They're using super speed.

You can tho? Almost every slow mo feat on the wiki uses pixel scaling. I have several, and the calculation page even tells you to use pixel scaling for slow mo feats. Angsizing is a form of pixel scaling. It involves pixel scaling a reference object and the panel height (I did it above in the calculations I sent).

Cool, can doesn't mean does. Also neat.

This isn't a matter of authors not considering real world implications, this is a case of authors apparently not having common sense and believing humans are moving as fast as slugs and a nuclear explosion is happening at a normal jogging pace.

That's not what's happening at all. It is literally just real world implications. They don't believe any of that because they didn't think about that. Also I still don't see why you have such a problem with this but not the fastest explosion ever lmao.

He did not fly from Houson to Libya in a second. The timer started at 257:17:12:44 and ended at 258:07:20:45. That would mean it took him around a year to go from Houston to Libya. Where is a second coming from?

I will admit I read the timer wrong initially, I assumed a second based on how fast he went to Lybia and the last second matching up perfectly from 44 to 45. However you are also blatantly reading it wrong, the 4th slot is for days, not years, the big number behind those 4 is years so more like what 11 hours, 8 minutes and a second, though judging by how fast he flew from Orbit to Lybia I was probably wrong in assuming he went straight from Houston to Lybia in the first place

With that you can at least explain it as maybe the author misunderstanding the speed of light and relativity and thinking going close to the speed of light slows time down infinitely (It doesn't). Also, funny enough someone asked the author about this mentioning that this would be impossible under the speed of light and the author admitted it would require them to be faster than light to do it (It was years ago tho, but I do recall it). So the author of that issue acknowledges that should be faster than light.

Oh I'm aware, that doesnt change that the panel itself directly states that and the author admitted to not doing any math for it lmao, that's the point the authors don't really care about the math. Also I don't understand why you're willing to make excuses for other examples but not this one

If he's MHS, he's not going to be fast enough to stop drones all over the city in the hundreds. Hell, I think he would have trouble stopping hundreds of bullets scattered throughout the city simultaneously. That wouldn't be an inconsistency, that's something that would reasonably be difficult for that range of speed

You know what, fair enough, I overestimated how fast MHS was, assuming CC is about the size of LA due to its closeness in population, at the lowest end he wouldn't be able to cover a tenth of it in a second and at rhe highest only around 40 ish percent. However entirely ignoring the fact that I also said Relativistic+ is diabolical lmao, that's 50% the speed of light at least, at 93,000 miles per second he could clear CC of hundreds of Drones, well, hundreds of times over

I need an exact number. Faster than sound could be any speed, I need a more concrete number.

Do Mach 1.1 for all I care, or do a low, mid and Highball.

This is the shockwave/overpressure of a blast. I need the speed of the fireball since we see the fireball expanding in the sequence.

Yes which would take place after the fireball and therefore need to be slower than it as the more it expands the more velocity it loses, once again just more reinforcement of its speed

Also the shockwave

My point above

Also seems to be the shockwave.

My point above

Being a ******** aside I did find a concrete number for the fireball here

 

[LaserPrecision]

He isn't he's blatantly using super speed. They're both blatantly using super speed. The soldiers and bullets are statued, everything Is statued. They're using super speed.

I never said he's not using super speed. I'm saying using the timeframe that you say is seconds, he is only moving at a few meters per second. He walked from the background that is like 10ish or so feet away from eyeballing it to the foreground in 1 second. That's just basic math, it comes out to about like 10 feet per second.

Cool, can doesn't mean does. Also neat.

How else would you suggest calculating it. If we have no way to quantify a feat, we just throw it out because it can't be measured in any meaningful way for indexing.

That's not what's happening at all. It is literally just real world implications. They don't believe any of that because they didn't think about that. Also I still don't see why you have such a problem with this but not the fastest explosion ever lmao.

I have no problem with a fireball from some weird blue dude being faster than irl fireball expansions, why would I? This isn't a regular nuclear bomb dropping and going off. Also, if I calculated it, I honestly don't think it'd even be that much faster than the expansion of a fireball irl which according to your later source starts at several million miles per hour and only near the END of its expansion does it slow down to being numerous times the speed of sound.

I will admit I read the timer wrong initially, I assumed a second based on how fast he went to Lybia and the last second matching up perfectly from 44 to 45. However you are also blatantly reading it wrong, the 4th slot is for days, not years, the big number behind those 4 is years so more like what 11 hours, 8 minutes and a second, though judging by how fast he flew from Orbit to Lybia I was probably wrong in assuming he went straight from Houston to Lybia in the first place

Okay, but it wouldn't be 11 hours, 8 minutes, and 1 second:

The timer started at 257:17:12:44 and ended at 258:07:20:45

The day timer went from 257 to 258. It would be 1 day, 11 hours, 8 minutes, 1 second.

Oh I'm aware, that doesnt change that the panel itself directly states that and the author admitted to not doing any math for it lmao, that's the point the authors don't really care about the math. Also I don't understand why you're willing to make excuses for other examples but not this one

Not doing the math =/= don't care about the math. Plenty of authors care about physics and math and do their due diligence to adhere to it in a fantastical sense where they understand suspension of belief (and bending of the rules) is required. Maybe some don't, but you would need a more explicit statement that the author literally makes zero effort to adhere to physics or reality at all in their work. You keep straw manning my point when from the start I never even disagreed with your points in the OP.

I didn't make an excuse, the author was wrong, realized it, and admitted he would need to be faster to pull off the feat.

You know what, fair enough, I overestimated how fast MHS was, assuming CC is about the size of LA due to its closeness in population, at the lowest end he wouldn't be able to cover a tenth of it in a second and at rhe highest only around 40 ish percent. However entirely ignoring the fact that I also said Relativistic+ is diabolical lmao, that's 50% the speed of light at least, at 93,000 miles per second he could clear CC of hundreds of Drones, well, hundreds of times over

It's not just clearing the drones. He would need to clear the drones and the bullets they shot. He would be racing against hundreds (And that's a minimum considering Riddler's statement) of Supersonic bullets spread out across the entire city near simultaneously (As they would all be activated at the speed of light at the Riddler's discretion). My initial comment was meant to say Relativistic range but for some reason it didn't go through. I would have to do the math on it, but that could very well be either very difficult or not possible at relativistic speeds.

Being a ******** aside I did find a concrete number for the fireball here

This'll do. Tho why highlight the speed when it's near the end/edge of its expansion instead of its velocity before it drastically drops?

 

[Purgy]

Okay, but it wouldn't be 11 hours, 8 minutes, and 1 second:

The day timer went from 257 to 258. It would be 1 day, 11 hours, 8 minutes, 1 second.

You're both wrong, once the hour timer hits 24 it naturally resets and the day counter increases.

The time that passed is 14 hours, 8 minutes and 1 second.

 

[FroYoSans]

I never said he's not using super speed. I'm saying using the timeframe that you say is seconds, he is only moving at a few meters per second. He walked from the background that is like 10ish or so feet away from eyeballing it to the foreground in 1 second. That's just basic math, it comes out to about like 10 feet per second.

He moved 10 feet in a second In that same time frame a bullet couldn't move a few inches. I'm not seeing the problem.

I have no problem with a fireball from some weird blue dude being faster than irl fireball expansions, why would I? This isn't a regular nuclear bomb dropping and going off.

IT IS LITERALLY A REGULAR DEGULAR NUKE CAPTAIN ATOM FLIES INTO IT HE DOESNT CREATE IT IT IS A REGULAR NUKE LOOK AT THE PANELS HE LITERALLY SAYS HE IS TO LATE AND FLIES INTO IT

Also, if I calculated it, I honestly don't think it'd even be that much faster than the expansion of a fireball irl which according to your later source starts at several million miles per hour and only near the END of its expansion does it slow down to being numerous times the speed of sound.

It would still make it the fastest ever lmao, pick something snd stay consistent with it. If you don't have a problem with it being the fastest you shouldn't with it being the slowest.

Okay, but it wouldn't be 11 hours, 8 minutes, and 1 second:
The day timer went from 257 to 258. It would be 1 day, 11 hours, 8 minutes, 1 second.

Dude I don't know how to say this to you, but it was at 17 hours...there's 24 hours in a day...so it only needed 4 more hours to change to 258, from there it was 258:07:20:45, hence the 11 hours, 4+7=11, and the rest is self explanatory from there.

Not doing the math =/= don't care about the math. Plenty of authors care about physics and math and do their due diligence to adhere to it in a fantastical sense where they understand suspension of belief (and bending of the rules) is required. Maybe some don't, but you would need a more explicit statement that the author literally makes zero effort to adhere to physics or reality at all in their work. You keep straw manning my point when from the start I never even disagreed with your points in the OP.

I didn't make an excuse, the author was wrong, realized it, and admitted he would need to be faster to pull off the feat.

Holy hell I'm arguing semantics over fictional math that has no bearing over my life at 330 in the ******* morning. Jesus christ. Sure plenty of them do, and plenty of them don't, like literally your statement goes both ways and clearly you don't care all that much about the math when you haphazardly throw around numbers without checking them at all. Despite the fact that he gave one of the easiest most basic S=D/T problems EVER in powerscaling, he gave the timeframe and distance, it really wasn't that hard.

It's not just clearing the drones. He would need to clear the drones and the bullets they shot. He would be racing against hundreds (And that's a minimum considering Riddler's statement) of Supersonic bullets spread out across the entire city near simultaneously (As they would all be activated at the speed of light at the Riddler's discretion). My initial comment was meant to say Relativistic range but for some reason it didn't go through. I would have to do the math on it, but that could very well be either very difficult or not possible at relativistic speeds.

Or just moving the ******* people but sure why not he can do the more tedious thing, also he would literally see the bullets in slow-mo at 92,000 miles a second whether the Drones got that signal at light speed or not lmao, once again 503 square miles is nothing to a dude who can clear that in literal miliseconds. Also what minimum? That's the maximum considering we're not given any other number.

This'll do. Tho why highlight the speed when it's near the end/edge of its expansion instead of its velocity before it drastically drops?

The real answer is I wasn't aware of the fireball and Shockwave speed differences, the answer I'm going to go with is lowballing because I've seen calcs usually prefer taking low ends for as much consistency as possible

 

[FroYoSans]

You're both wrong, once the hour timer hits 24 it naturally resets and the day counter increases.

The time that passed is 14 hours, 8 minutes and 1 second.

I'm very aware of how a clock works thanks that's why it's 11 hours. It's at Hour 17, to the next day isn't even a full 4 hours but just for ease of use 4 hours, that would make the time 6574:258:00:12:44 to 6574:258:07:20:45, that's an extra 7 hours 8 minutes and 1 second. Which makes a total of 11 hours.

Holy **** I'm going to *******, I'm a moron, 17+7 is 24 holy GOD, I'm so mad at myself holy lord yeah its 14 hours I've been doing basic kindergarten addition wrong for an hour now

 

[FroYoSans]

Dude I don't know how to say this to you, but it was at 17 hours...there's 24 hours in a day...so it only needed 4 more hours to change to 258, from there it was 258:07:20:45, hence the 11 hours, 4+7=11, and the rest is self explanatory from there.

I'm so mad at this, the general principal is correct, the clock is how that works but I messed up basic addition dear lord. Why did I even possibly think that it was only 4 hours to the end of day?? The hour wasn't 20, Jesus LORD

 

[LaserPrecision]

He moved 10 feet in a second In that same time frame a bullet couldn't move a few inches. I'm not seeing the problem.

You said the problem. He moved 10 feet in a second. 10 feet per second. If the bullet didn't even move a few inches, that would make the bullet slower than 10 feet per second.

IT IS LITERALLY A REGULAR DEGULAR NUKE CAPTAIN ATOM FLIES INTO IT HE DOESNT CREATE IT IT IS A REGULAR NUKE LOOK AT THE PANELS HE LITERALLY SAYS HE IS TO LATE AND FLIES INTO IT

That's on me, I was tired and interpreted it as him referring to himself as a nuclear warhead for some reason.

It would still make it the fastest ever lmao, pick something snd stay consistent with it. If you don't have a problem with it being the fastest you shouldn't with it being the slowest.

I did the math, and it's only 1.8x faster than the estimate your source gave me for the fireball expansion, and that was me using conservative numbers. That's hardly an issue whatsoever. This is why we should do math before making assumptions about it being the fastest nuke ever by far (And bare in mind, fireballs can be faster than what your source describes as admitted by the source). So after math-checking things, this is very consistent.

Dude I don't know how to say this to you, but it was at 17 hours...there's 24 hours in a day...so it only needed 4 more hours to change to 258, from there it was 258:07:20:45, hence the 11 hours, 4+7=11, and the rest is self explanatory from there.

Seems we both messed up there as pointed out by Purgy. I should probably sleep.

Holy hell I'm arguing semantics over fictional math that has no bearing over my life at 330 in the ******* morning. Jesus christ. Sure plenty of them do, and plenty of them don't, like literally your statement goes both ways and clearly you don't care all that much about the math when you haphazardly throw around numbers without checking them at all. Despite the fact that he gave one of the easiest most basic S=D/T problems EVER in powerscaling, he gave the timeframe and distance, it really wasn't that hard.

I don't get why you are so aggressively argumentative. As you said it's just powerscaling. Maybe you should sleep, being up at 3:30 ain't good for ya.

Or just moving the ******* people but sure why not he can do the more tedious thing, also he would literally see the bullets in slow-mo at 92,000 miles a second whether the Drones got that signal at light speed or not lmao, once again 503 square miles is nothing to a dude who can clear that in literal miliseconds. Also what minimum? That's the maximum considering we're not given any other number.

I mean even that would be difficult depending on how close the drones are when they fire. He would see a bullet in slow motion, but he would need to travel all over the city and find the drones. He doesn't know where all of them are. Assuming he was moving 50 percent the speed of light, it would take 8.6 seconds to travel every square meter of a 503 square mile city. A bullet, depending on how close they were to the target, would take milliseconds to reach the target at the longest (A timeframe generally in the thousands of times faster ballpark). Now I don't think he'll travel every square meter, but given he has no idea where the drones would be other than scattered throughout the city, he'd need to cover an absurd amount of distance PLUS he would need to move/vacate people to where they weren't at risk of being shot by the drones. I don't think it's absurd to say moving hundreds of people to safety from bullets at close range across an entire city would be difficult even at those speeds.

Also I said minimum, because Riddler said even if Flash saves some people, hundreds will still die. So the implication was more than hundreds would die if Flash did nothing to save anybody. I'm not saying it'd be thousands, I'm just saying there's hundreds at the minimum, with wiggle room for more.

The real answer is I wasn't aware of the fireball and Shockwave speed differences, the answer I'm going to go with is lowballing because I've seen calcs usually prefer taking low ends for as much consistency as possible

That's usually context dependent, but you are right. CGM generally prefers conservative ends. But not for consistency, but due to the unknowns a feat might have. But I'll make a calc for this some time tomorrow or smth.

 

[Firestorm808]

To keep things simple, let's organize the all feats and see the trend.

• N52 Flash Solo Series Feats/Scaling
• N52 Crossover Series Feats/Scaling

 

[AyOgUyS]

I would love for you to explain why

Well as LaserPrecision has already explained, the feat's timeframe being seconds results in egregiously illogical conclusions like normal humans and the blast waves of the nuclear explosions being comparable in speed to slugs, making it far more likely that the timeframe of the feat is in a shorter unit of time.

 

[FroYoSans]

You said the problem. He moved 10 feet in a second. 10 feet per second. If the bullet didn't even move a few inches, that would make the bullet slower than 10 feet per second.

...this isn't the problem though I'm just so confused, a second for them because they're once again using super speed. Slow-Mo feats are literally about the perceived speed of something vs how fast something actually IS, literally if I put those values in a calculator right now it won't be 10 feet a second because the distance isn't the most important part of a slow-mo feat. Plus the panel of Flash running at the end there you deemed he ran 102 meters in 3 seconds, that would literally be 34 meters a second which already further contradicts "10 feet per second statuing". Literally even if we said the bullets moved a single Meter in those seconds, a standard AK47 like the one those Libyan's would most likely be using in 2013 had a muzzle velocity of 715 m/s, using Speed Calculator made by this site, theyre both walking so 1.4 m/s for his apparent speed and look at that, Supersonic, 1,001 m/s lol. We're getting hung up on what might as well be worthless semantics that aren't what's actually important about a scene.

That's on me, I was tired and interpreted it as him referring to himself as a nuclear warhead for some reason.

Nah it makes sense, molecular Manipulation and all, but yeah he's not the nuke.

I did the math, and it's only 1.8x faster than the estimate your source gave me for the fireball expansion, and that was me using conservative numbers. That's hardly an issue whatsoever. This is why we should do math before making assumptions about it being the fastest nuke ever by far (And bare in mind, fireballs can be faster than what your source describes as admitted by the source). So after math-checking things, this is very consistent.

My issue isn't with the speed itself it's the claim that the fireball/Shockwave would be moving in microseconds which WOULD make it the fastest nuke ever. Literally if this was depicted accurately and traveled any type of larger distance, say 100 meters, your 3 microsecond timeframe would make it 11.11% the SPEED OF LIGHT hell half of that is 5.5% the speed of light, a microsecond timeframe makes this get out of hand incredibly quickly. That being said I can't argue with math, even if I wasn't shown it.

I mean even that would be difficult depending on how close the drones are when they fire. He would see a bullet in slow motion, but he would need to travel all over the city and find the drones. He doesn't know where all of them are. Assuming he was moving 50 percent the speed of light, it would take 8.6 seconds to travel every square meter of a 503 square mile city. A bullet, depending on how close they were to the target, would take milliseconds to reach the target at the longest (A timeframe generally in the thousands of times faster ballpark). Now I don't think he'll travel every square meter, but given he has no idea where the drones would be other than scattered throughout the city, he'd need to cover an absurd amount of distance PLUS he would need to move/vacate people to where they weren't at risk of being shot by the drones. I don't think it's absurd to say moving hundreds of people to safety from bullets at close range across an entire city would be difficult even at those speeds.

This genuinely doesn't make any sense to me. 93,000 MILES PER SECOND, in a 503 square mile city means he can travel that 503 square miles 182 times over in a second. Converting to square meters for the sake of proving a point makes no sense, this means you unironically think that the speed of light would take 4.3 seconds to travel every square meter of LA or CC, despite travelling around the Earth 7.5 times in a second. This seems like an absolute joke

Also I said minimum, because Riddler said even if Flash saves some people, hundreds will still die. So the implication was more than hundreds would die if Flash did nothing to save anybody. I'm not saying it'd be thousands, I'm just saying there's hundreds at the minimum, with wiggle room for more.

Fair enough

That's usually context dependent, but you are right. CGM generally prefers conservative ends. But not for consistency, but due to the unknowns a feat might have. But I'll make a calc for this some time tomorrow or smth.

Neat

 

[FroYoSans]

Well as LaserPrecision has already explained, the feat's timeframe being seconds results in egregiously illogical conclusions like normal humans and the blast waves of the nuclear explosions being comparable in speed to slugs, making it far more likely that the timeframe of the feat is in a shorter unit of time.

Which I would normally agree with and it would make sense however you can't make that timer make sense in a microsecond timeframe. Try, go ahead, despite being to only the millionths your first number is 6574 (apparently those would be seconds) from there it's 3 digits, 2 digits, 2 digits and 2 digits, that's 9 zeroes without even including the seconds which would make this nanoseconds instead despite the fact that according to you it should be, Seconds: Deciseconds:CentiSeconds:Miliseconds:Microseconds. Seconds are never measured out that far, you only need 10 deciseconds for a second yet there's 3 digits, centiseconds is fine since you need 100 for a second and it could stop at 99, miliseconds need a thousand though and those are nowhere to be found in only 2 digits, and microseconds need a million which is once again nowhere to be seen in 2 digits

 

[FroYoSans]

To keep things simple, let's organize the all feats and see the trend.

• N52 Flash Solo Series Feats/Scaling
• N52 Crossover Series Feats/Scaling

I'll get all the solo series feats I can later

 

[Firestorm808]

Let's hold off on crossexamining the feats until after we have them properly listed out.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Let's hold off on crossexamining the feats until after we have them properly listed out.

ok.

 

[LaserPrecision]

...this isn't the problem though I'm just so confused, a second for them because they're once again using super speed. Slow-Mo feats are literally about the perceived speed of something vs how fast something actually IS, literally if I put those values in a calculator right now it won't be 10 feet a second because the distance isn't the most important part of a slow-mo feat. Plus the panel of Flash running at the end there you deemed he ran 102 meters in 3 seconds, that would literally be 34 meters a second which already further contradicts "10 feet per second statuing". Literally even if we said the bullets moved a single Meter in those seconds, a standard AK47 like the one those Libyan's would most likely be using in 2013 had a muzzle velocity of 715 m/s, using Speed Calculator made by this site, theyre both walking so 1.4 m/s for his apparent speed and look at that, Supersonic, 1,001 m/s lol. We're getting hung up on what might as well be worthless semantics that aren't what's actually important about a scene.

It's a second for them? Not real time? If it's a second for them, that's fine. But I thought this clock was in real time, not time from their perception.

My issue isn't with the speed itself it's the claim that the fireball/Shockwave would be moving in microseconds which WOULD make it the fastest nuke ever. Literally if this was depicted accurately and traveled any type of larger distance, say 100 meters, your 3 microsecond timeframe would make it 11.11% the SPEED OF LIGHT hell half of that is 5.5% the speed of light, a microsecond timeframe makes this get out of hand incredibly quickly. That being said I can't argue with math, even if I wasn't shown it.

I was kinda tired but I could show the math if u wanted. I just take values from the source you sent and the calculations I sent earlier and just divided to get the difference in speed.

This genuinely doesn't make any sense to me. 93,000 MILES PER SECOND, in a 503 square mile city means he can travel that 503 square miles 182 times over in a second. Converting to square meters for the sake of proving a point makes no sense, this means you unironically think that the speed of light would take 4.3 seconds to travel every square meter of LA or CC, despite travelling around the Earth 7.5 times in a second. This seems like an absolute joke

I converted miles per second to meters per second for that example (Well, I used 50 percent the SoL since that's Relativistic). Also, 503 square miles, and 503 miles are completely different things. Crossing every square meter is MUCH more distance than crossing meters. Just to show you what I mean:

The equator is 40,075 Kilometers long. How long is every square meter in a 503 square mile city? First you need to convert square miles to square meters. Just googling that gives you a result of 1.303e+9 square meters. Now divide by 1000 for Kilometers. You get a result of 1,303,000 Kilometers. Which is way more distance than the equator (32x more). So traveling every square meter in a city would actually be more distance than walking around the equator. That said, it's physically impossible to walk every square meter in a city, because a lot of it is covered by buildings and shit.

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

Option A seems fine to me, though I don't mind option B either.

 

[FroYoSans]

It's a second for them? Not real time? If it's a second for them, that's fine. But I thought this clock was in real time, not time from their perception.

Frankly at this point I'm not sure, I thought it wad real time I mean ever other scene with this godforsaken timer is in real time. However they also said they live inbetween the time everyone else does and hours minutes and seconds have lost meaning to them. So frankly who knows. Point Is that little distance they cover isn't what's important (as even in later feats there are contradictions to it) but rather the fact that it's supposed to be a slow-mo feat.

I was kinda tired but I could show the math if u wanted. I just take values from the source you sent and the calculations I sent earlier and just divided to get the difference in speed.

God no I don't care nearly enough to ask for that.

Also, 503 square miles, and 503 miles are completely different things.

I'm aware of this, seeing as square miles are an area and miles itself are a distance. In hindsight its like comparing the distance of a long line vs a seemingly small Square

Crossing every square meter is MUCH more distance than crossing meters. Just to show you what I mean:

The equator is 40,075 Kilometers long. How long is every square meter in a 503 square mile city? First you need to convert square miles to square meters. Just googling that gives you a result of 1.303e+9 square meters. Now divide by 1000 for Kilometers. You get a result of 1,303,000 Kilometers. Which is way more distance than the equator (32x more). So traveling every square meter in a city would actually be more distance than walking around the equator. That said, it's physically impossible to walk every square meter in a city, because a lot of it is covered by buildings and shit.

This fundamentally feels wrong as it means light would take over 4 seconds to cover that area and therefore over twice the time it takes to reach the ******* moon, but the math doesn't lie. However this also means we could safely cut out a LARGE majority of the city's area due to buildings

 

[Firestorm808]

Seriously... What did I just say you guys?

 

[FroYoSans]

Let's hold off on crossexamining the feats until after we have them properly listed out.

Aight

 

[Tomfer]

Can't we just index like this:
"Varies, (his lowest speed feat here, probably going to be somewhere in the hypersonic mark according to OP), up to (his highest speed feat here, probably going to be immesurable idk)"

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Can't we just index like this:
"Varies, (his lowest speed feat here, probably going to be somewhere in the hypersonic mark according to OP), up to (his highest speed feat here, probably going to be immesurable idk)"

This would only apply to travel speed as his combat would still stay MFTL+