Genshin Impact — Nahida and Irminsul Stuff

[MSahla]

Tryna add something for
Nahida from the Irminsul.

What is Irminsul?
Irminsul refers to the primordial, silver-white world tree of Teyvat which grows deep underground, sends its roots to the surface, and is connected to the Ley Lines of the world that course with elemental energy.

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Irminsul has all knowledge and memories of the world because it was the repository for all of the information and memories of Teyvat, which were collected via the Ley Lines. This would include even past, present and future of the world; For example, the prophecy that Fontaine would be flooded was recorded in Irminsul long ago, even though it has not yet occurred. Then, it finally happened in the last Fontaine Archon Quest. This is set in stone, because all fate in Genshin Impact/Teyvat are predetermined/predestined, and the future cannot deviate from their path. There is also a thing called "Constellation" that also controls fate (past, present, and future) of all beings, and Irminsul is that anchor.

What would Nahida get from that?

1. Nigh-Omniscient Intelligence
The Dendro Archon is the God of Wisdom because her consciousness and mind are directly connected to the Irminsul. This would gave them more knowledge and wisdom. And as I explained before, Irminsul has all knowledge and memories of the world, including even past, present and future.

2. New Abilities: Fate Manipulation & Limited Causality Manipulation

Justifications:

(Irminsul has existed in Teyvat since before the arrival of the Heavenly Principles. Its appearance and function then differed greatly from today. After the arrival of the Heavenly Principles, Irminsul was usurped and refashioned, and the tree itself was transformed into a device meant to record and preserve all information in Teyvat. In addition, it was used as an anchor for the fate of the world, which should be connected to the constellations that also control the fate of the world, to maintain the constant flow of erosion through the Ley Lines, and to serve humanity. The stars of Teyvat are closely intertwined with the concept of fate, and Constellations are an extension of this. The stars of constellations are likened to strings by which the Heavenly Principles puppeteer the mortals of the Human Realm. Causality is irreversibly attached to fate, and whatever fate changes will also alter the cause and effect)

Causality Manipulation was accepted here

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Votes

Agreed:
Furina003 - KirbyFan03 - The_Tetromino_King - LoudestProcedure - AsterReal

Neutral:

Disagree:

 

[Furina003]

A quite simple, i think this seem fine

 

[KirbyFan03]

Agree

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Agreed

 

[PedjaTarzan]

when are we getting her out of "Unknown" cage

 

[MSahla]

when are we getting her out of "Unknown" cage

@Puppet43 ask him.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

explained before, Irminsul has all knowledge and memories of the world, including even past, present and future.

Where?

 

[MSahla]

Where?

Umm...

and future of the world; For example, the prophecy that Fontaine would be flooded was recorded in Irminsul long ago, even though it has not yet occurred. Then, it finally happened in the last Fontaine Archon Quest. This is set in stone, because all fate in Genshin Impact/Teyvat are predetermined/predestined, and the future cannot deviate from their path.

 

[LoudestProcedure]

Agreed

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Umm...

The Fontaine prophecy isn't really evidence that Irminsul contains future knowledge. The prophecy was a punishment imposed by the Heavenly Principles on Fontaine and Egeria, becoming part of Teyvat's predetermined fate. Once that fate was established, it could be recorded in Irminsul just like any other aspect of Teyvat's history and fate.
In other words, the prophecy wasn't present in Irminsul because Irminsul already knew the future. Rather, it was recorded because the Heavenly Principles had already decreed that outcome. The distinction is important: Irminsul is recording a fate that was set into motion, not independently storing all future events before they are determined.

 

[MSahla]

The Fontaine prophecy isn't really evidence that Irminsul contains future knowledge. The prophecy was a punishment imposed by the Heavenly Principles on Fontaine and Egeria, becoming part of Teyvat's predetermined fate. Once that fate was established, it could be recorded in Irminsul just like any other aspect of Teyvat's history and fate.
In other words, the prophecy wasn't present in Irminsul because Irminsul already knew the future. Rather, it was recorded because the Heavenly Principles had already decreed that outcome. The distinction is important: Irminsul is recording a fate that was set into motion, not independently storing all future events before they are determined.

The problem is that in Teyvat, fate itself is part of the information structure of the world, and Irminsul is repeatedly described as containing and recording that structure. If fate is predetermined, then information about future events already exists as part of Teyvat's reality. Whether the source is the Heavenly Principles or something else does not change the fact that the future event is information that exists before it occurs.

The Fontaine's prophecy actually supports all of this because it is characteristic of genuine future information, not merely a historical record.

Irminsul is recording a fate that was set into motion, not independently storing all future events before they are determined.

This only works if future events are not yet determined when recorded. But in Genshin, fate is often treated as already existing before the event happens. If the Heavenly Principles decreed Fontaine's destruction centuries before it occurred, then from that moment onward the future event was already established reality within Teyvat's fate system. So if Irminsul records fate, it is still recording future information.

If you play Linnea's story quest (which I assume you have), you'll know that fate is something set in stone. And you saw Linnea literally having her Precognition, watching her future/her entire life will be until her death. That would not change whatsoever and remains a genuine future informations that would occurs.

Irminsul may not be the source of future knowledge, but that is different from "Irminsul does not contain future knowledge"

 

[MSahla]

Snip

And let's not forget that there is also a thing called "Constellation" that also controls fate (past, present, and future) of all beings, and Irminsul is that anchor.

• The first premise is "Irminsul is the anchor of fate". An "anchor of fate" means fate is stabilized or rooted through Irminsul.
• And the second premise is "Constellations are representations/extensions of fate". Mona omce said that constellations reflect an individual's fate. Even Rukkhadevata says that.

If Irminsul is the anchor of fate itself, then constellations are downstream manifestations of information already rooted within Irminsul. Therefore, anchoring fate necessarily entails anchoring the constellation system that reflects that fate. This leads us to the obvious conclusion: Irminsul does contain information about the future as it anchor the fate (past, present ane future) of the world.

 

[AsterReal]

That looks good. But shouldn't Nahida be comparable to Dottore, who can use information from the Irminsul to replicate powers and abilities recorded in the tree?

 

[MSahla]

That looks good. But shouldn't Nahida be comparable to Dottore, who can use information from the Irminsul to replicate powers and abilities recorded in the tree?

Just another/next time. Too lazy to edit a lot of new things.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

The problem is that in Teyvat, fate itself is part of the information structure of the world, and Irminsul is repeatedly described as containing and recording that structure. If fate is predetermined, then information about future events already exists as part of Teyvat's reality. Whether the source is the Heavenly Principles or something else does not change the fact that the future event is information that exists before it occurs.

The Fontaine's prophecy actually supports all of this because it is characteristic of genuine future information, not merely a historical record.


This only works if future events are not yet determined when recorded. But in Genshin, fate is often treated as already existing before the event happens. If the Heavenly Principles decreed Fontaine's destruction centuries before it occurred, then from that moment onward the future event was already established reality within Teyvat's fate system. So if Irminsul records fate, it is still recording future information.

If you play Linnea's story quest (which I assume you have), you'll know that fate is something set in stone. And you saw Linnea literally having her Precognition, watching her future/her entire life will be until her death. That would not change whatsoever and remains a genuine future informations that would occurs.

Irminsul may not be the source of future knowledge, but that is different from "Irminsul does not contain future knowledge"

And let's not forget that there is also a thing called "Constellation" that also controls fate (past, present, and future) of all beings, and Irminsul is that anchor.

• The first premise is "Irminsul is the anchor of fate". An "anchor of fate" means fate is stabilized or rooted through Irminsul.
• And the second premise is "Constellations are representations/extensions of fate". Mona omce said that constellations reflect an individual's fate. Even Rukkhadevata says that.

If Irminsul is the anchor of fate itself, then constellations are downstream manifestations of information already rooted within Irminsul. Therefore, anchoring fate necessarily entails anchoring the constellation system that reflects that fate. This leads us to the obvious conclusion: Irminsul does contain information about the future as it anchor the fate (past, present ane future) of the world.

I have written 6 para to respond regarding this, I may send that if I feel like if i really need too. Let that aside for now.
Proving that Irminsul contains future information is not the same as proving Nahida possesses Nigh-Omniscience. You must prove comprehensive access, comprehension, and retrieval, which the story repeatedly shows she lacks.

 

[Furina003]

I have written 6 para to respond regarding this, I may send that if I feel like if i really need too. Let that aside for now.
Proving that Irminsul contains future information is not the same as proving Nahida possesses Nigh-Omniscience. You must prove comprehensive access, comprehension, and retrieval, which the story repeatedly shows she lacks.

Isn't Nahida able to access all of Irminsul's information?

Because she is the Irminsul tree itself, and the dendro archon's consciousness is directly connected to Irminsul.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Isn't Nahida able to access all of Irminsul's information?

Because she is the Irminsul tree itself, and the dendro archon's consciousness is directly connected to Irminsul.

Nahida's actual portrayal directly contradicts Nigh-Omniscience. Throughout the story she lacks information, investigates mysteries, requires time to search Irminsul, and is surprised by events. A character with Nigh-Omniscience should not repeatedly encounter situations where they need to gather information they supposedly already have access to.