- 981
- 358
Before getting into the actual evidence, I want to clarify something regarding previous discussions around Acheron and Type 2 Acausality because a large portion of the disagreement stemmed from an extremely strict interpretation of Type 2 that even prior Acausality revision threads and many other profiles/verses in this wiki struggled to apply in a satisfactory way.
The most agreeable interpretation so far appears to be this one.
Since there's not enough evidence for it as of now, and since it seems to have too many, sometimes incoherent, interpretations, instead, the arguments presented here will be focused on Acausality Type 4. An existence operating under a fundamentally abnormal causal framework relative to conventional spacetime dependency.
I'll be addressing various points brought up in the other thread that removed Type 2 and lastly I will be also addressing a certain confusion regarding her BFR.
Izumo-Takamagahara, Nihility and Acheron's Past
I will first establish a clear chronology of Izumo’s collapse under the influence of Nihility.
Izumo was originally one of two planets (Izumo and Takamagahara) orbiting a “pitch-black great sun” engaged in a prolonged war against the Kami. During this period, its society normally developed history, including the forging of the Edict Edges (Sentinels) and later the Origin and End blades. At this stage, Izumo functioned under normal causal continuity, where historical events accumulated in a normal sequence.
This continuity begins to break following the influence of the Shadow of IX (Nihility). The Shadow of IX, which is an extension of IX, an apathetic, uninteractive Aeon who doesn't really do anything. One of their aliases being "The Sleeping") is explicitly described as a manifestation of IX capable of swallowing worlds and erasing meaning, producing phenomena such as Self-Annihilators and the degradation of existential significance.
The final stage occurs during Acheron’s confrontation with the remaining decisive force of Izumo’s conflict (Hakuhatsu Ki), where she wields the blade “Origin.” However, this conflict is stated to be after all, meaningless as Izumo and Takamagahara had already begun sinking into the Shadow of IX prior to its conclusion. There were no winners in this battle. Sorrow and meaninglessness engulf her, the Shadow of IX swallows her and she becomes a Self-Annihilator. Following this, Acheron in her grief and delirious state, delivers the final blow with her blade that she forged in that instant (The blade called "Naught" is the same one she uses in both the present and when striking Izumo) that seals the fate of the two planets annihilating them as if they had never existed. The same blade that is stated to be able to sever "cause and effect". Even in the trailer, we see the entire history of Izumo being absorbed inside the black hole. History is moving backwards to the beginning clearly signaling that it's being erased from its start which leads us to this statement of her having no Past. Crucially, the lore establishes that the Shadow of IX engulfing Izumo is not merely a physical catastrophe, but an ontological collapse event as Nihility is the opposite of reality.
After Izumo's destruction, Enigmata ended up involving itself by concealing, lying and twisting truths as it and its followers usually do. The truth, is thus, indecipherable. In fact, it was not JUST the planets that were enshrouded in Enigmata, it was the entire galaxy hosting the planets.
The key distinction established by the lore is that Izumo does not simply undergo conventional destruction. Instead, it is described as a situation whose history becomes lost to cosmic understanding, with only fragmented traces remaining and no coherent reconstruction possible even by later investigators.
However, Izumo is explicitly characterized as lacking even these residual traces. Systems associated with cosmic remembrance and record preservation are unable to retain or reconstruct meaningful information regarding its existence. It's disappearance from existing astral maps indicates that Izumo’s collapse is not merely physical destruction but a timeline-level, informational, existential erasure within a causal, reconstructible and recordable framework. Izumo just stopped existing creating a giant gap in the history of the universe.
Elio's Script
In this part, we'll be reviewing Elio's script and the concept of future timelines.
Acheron, because as an acausal paradox, does not appear in the forseeable future. Elio who supposedly sees all timelines and possibilities has no trace of her anywhere. Because Acheron isn't supposed to exist. I think the choice of words is obvious here. They are not refering to her Emanator status that Emanators of Nihility aren't possible, as it has been discussed before, but at her very existence.
From the HSR Wiki which is well-curated and trustworthy:
Clearly, it is possible. Not everyone believes it to be so however.
In the dialogue between Dan Heng and Boothill where they discuss the nature of Emanators of Nihility, it is evident that Dan Heng does not believe those exist, when it comes to Boothill, that's not the case. He seems open to the idea and in his previous dialogue with that cryptic line, he seems to be talking about the absence of her past. Of course, it wouldn't be absurd to assume that Boothill could also be talking about her Emanator status as later in his dialogue with Dan Heng, he also seems cautious of assuming it.
Moreover, Acheron’s abnormal relationship with Elio’s scripts is not treated as an isolated inconsistency, but as part of a broader pattern where deterministic future observation begins to fail in the presence of higher acausal or causality-disrupting phenomena. Originally in Penacony and even later in the 3.8 recton, the narrative repeatedly emphasizes that Acheron either cannot be properly accounted for within the script or exists outside its normal predictive ability. Importantly, one of the only other major situations where the script similarly failed to fully predict or stabilize outcomes occurred during the conflict surrounding Irontomb, where multiple Aeons and cosmic forces intersected simultaneously, including Fuli, whose very nature as the Aeon of Remembrance is tied to non-linear existence and acausal memory structures. Specifically as we see here, there's only 2 predicted outcomes. The erasure of Amphoreus or the death of the Universe. Neither of those happened because of Fuli's involvement. Instead a third outcome, not perceived by Elio, was achieved and resulted in Irontomb's defeat and Amphoreus' preservation through Cyrene's power as Fuli. The parallel matters because both cases involve entities fundamentally disconnected from ordinary causal progression. In Acheron’s case specifically, her origin and history were consumed by Nihility itself, severing the continuity between her existence and the past that should logically sustain it. As a result, she persists as a contradiction to normal causality: someone whose world, history, and future have been erased, yet who continues to exist and act within the present regardless.
There's also another thing. In the very distant future, Silver Wolf Lv.999's story explicitly revolves around Device IX even her confrontation with Polka Kakamond. Despite this, Acheron is absent from the projected sequence entirely despite her mentioning twice in Penacony that her next mission is to reach Device IX. There's 2 scenarios here. 1) She never finds Device IX. 2) Acheron is simply missing from the future. I am betting more towards the second considering the mountain of evidence suggesting that her future cannot be discerned due to her existence in her own causal chain being broken.
Misconceptions and common arguments
1) A point that was raised in the previous thread was this: "There's remnants of Izumo such as scrolls, theories and observations"
The thing is, the remains of its destruction are not preserved historical records belonging to an intact timeline, but disconnected remnants that no longer possess a functioning causal origin within the universe’s history.
This is why the surviving manuscripts and traces surrounding Izumo are consistently treated as fragmentary, uncertain, and unrecoverable rather than as evidence of a normally preserved past of a civilization. Researchers, recordkeepers and whoever else is investigating that phenomenon are unable to reconstruct a coherent historical continuity from them as the world itself vanished from astral history, and even Remembrance failed to properly preserve its existence.
In other words, these remnants behave less like preserved history and more like causally disconnected leftovers whose original continuity has been left severed.
This interpretation is consistent with Nihility’s established properties. If Acheron’s power can sever cause and effect and erase things “as if they never existed,” then the surviving fragments do not contradict the erasure. They can instead be understood as isolated residues that just survived. However, after the destruction of the larger causal structure that originally gave them context, continuity, and historical traceability, they are now stranded, cut from the causal chain of Izumo's existence and their time of creation with no way to pin-point their origin in the timeline.
Last but not least, the descriptions of Planar Ornaments are narrated through an omniscient narrator outside of the game's setting. The knowledge "inscribed" on them is not known to anyone else in-universe. There is no author nor source which in EVERY piece of text there always is one if it's from a source within the setting. That information is just spoonfed to us so we can understand the lore better. It doesn't demonstrate the knowledge of the characters on the planet and its culture.
2) A second point raised was this: "Zephyo, being a Self-Annihilator was predicted by Elio's script".
As I've already demonstrated, it's not the process of Self-Annihilation that made Acheron, or any Self-Annihilator for that matter, acausal. It was her striking the two worlds with the power of Nihility and "Naught".
3) A third point raised was that: "The Stellaron Hunters are not given the full scripts"
The claim that the Hunters are not given their full scripts, sometimes, is true.
However, the scene is crucial piece of information about Acheron's existence and nature and it is repeated TWICE. Both in the original patch and in the recton patch a whole year later.
For starters, there is no evidence that Firefly lacked the full script during that scene. The Stellaron Hunters are frequently shown receiving scripts that contain even extremely specific details and outcomes. Claiming that Firefly simply did not have the complete information at that moment is therefore speculative and undermines the narrative purpose of the scene itself. The entire sequence is structured around gradually unveiling Acheron’s true nature as a Self-Annihilator, especially since she had initially been framed as an ominous and enigmatic, threatening figure throughout Penacony’s story.
Acheron’s relationship with Elio’s scripts is repeatedly framed as abnormal. Elio’s foresight functions through branching futures, Finality's Omens and causal progression (very similarly to Herta's Simulated Universe which is reverse engineering the past and the divination techniques the Xianzhou uses) yet Acheron is consistently treated as an anomaly within that structure. In the quest "The Dream Split in Two", even a year after Penacony’s original release, the narrative revisits the fact that she does not properly appear within the scripted future in the same way other individuals do.
Specifically, Firefly says again:
Here, Firefly is surprised at two things. Acheron being an Emanator and being absent from the script. More accurately, Firefly is not particularly surprised that Emanators of the Nihility exist. She is simply stunned by the presence of one being there without warning. She seems aware of what her powers can do and is hellbent on getting the Trailblazer away from Nihility's range. Her familiarity with an Emanator of Nihility's powers should prove that there's precedent when it comes to their existence acting as further proof that Acheron is not the first one to be one making it more likely that Firefly is simply stunned Acheron was not mentioned in the script considering the risk she poses. The description of the quest when controlling Firefly is this further supporting the she knows the risks an Emanator such as her would pose. Additionally, Dahlia doesn't seem too surprised of Acheron's Emanatorship status either clearly talking as if she knows about them. Even more so, Dahlia had a script too in which Acheron wasn't mentioned either. The Hunters were both worried by the effects mere exposure to Nihility (this being the Zero-Point mission as in the highest priority) and Destruction would cause before the TB was ready. Surely, if Acheron could've interfered with the plan even without intending it as Nihility's effect is that powerful and the TB had to be guided out of the Horizon, the Hunters would've tried to avoid meeting with her especially since Firefly clearly is not fully aware of Acheron's intentions. (The Hunters don't just leave things to fate. Even with Irontomb's disaster, Kafka appeared in our minds to make sure we make the right decision. Even now in Planarcadia, Silver Wolf appeared again to save us despite her having pretty much no script) Even more so, Firefly seems a bit inconsistent when it comes to her script. To Acheron she revealed that she had only one line yet to the Trailblazer and Dahlia she also mentions the three deaths. Even more so, here she mentions the script having clues about the meme, "Death". Surprisingly she also reveals that the script said she'd confront the Express as SAM. It's more likely that her script is longer and that she's just not keen on sharing its details wtith anyone except for herself.
Essentially, this proves that Acheron is missing from Elio's scripts and that she cannot be detected by him.
Seperating BFR and Shadow of IX Summon
It also seems that there's been some confusion on her being able to bring forth Shadows of IX and her BFR. I will try to explain how those two are seperate things but can also coincide.
For starters, Shadows of IX that are manifestations of IX, as mentioned before too, can happen anywhere in the world and any Self-Annihilator can summon them for a large-scale catastrophical event. Many Self-Annihilators can summon them in quite a few ways. For example this Self-Annihilator had his own memories sealed inside a Bubble which after acquiring, a Shadow burst forth.
The Horizon of Existence is different. Here, it is explained that the it is the Border of Nihility and it requires someone to be affected by Nihility. Additionally, here, there's yet again a distinction on observers or beings/things afflicted by Nihility's power (Of course, it is an actual location though for the time being there's no more information regarding it).
Acheron, through her power of Nihility and being a Self-Annihilator, can directly manifest the Shadow in a space. This manifestation does not require displacement of targets into a separate domain or state within the Horizon of Existence, as the effect itself is an expression of Nihility's presence applied locally. The BFR is not a necessary prerequisite for the Shadow of IX’s activation, since the phenomenon can be invoked directly as a manifestation of a Self-Annihilator's/IX's power. Of course, because she passively carries Nihility's effect, which becomes active and affects things after drawing her Blade, she can affect things around her with it and BFR them without needing to summon a Shadow. She can selectively control who gets BFR-ed as she did with Aventurine and the TB despite multiple people being around them. Even during her in-game abilities, it's not necessary for her to summon a Shadow to BFR. And because every other time a Shadow has appeared, there's no mention of the Horizon, it is safe to say that those two don't need to go hand in hand.
tl;dr: She can summon the Shadow without needing to BFR and vice versa.
Conclusion/tl;dr
In conclusion, Acheron’s existence is consistently portrayed as an anomaly to ordinary causal and temporal continuity. The destruction of Izumo through Nihility did not only devastate a world physically, but also erased its historical continuity, causal trace, chain, and even it's existence as a memory from the universe to a degree portrayed as abnormal even by the standards of destroyed timelines and universes, which ordinarily still leave behind memoria or records within Remembrance. Despite this severance of origin, Acheron continues to exist as a surviving remnant of a history that no longer exists within the timeline.
This abnormality is further reinforced through the repeated failure or incompleteness of deterministic foresight surrounding her. Elio’s scripts, which are otherwise capable of mapping highly specific future outcomes across timelines and cosmic events, repeatedly treat Acheron as an irregularity whose future, role, or existence cannot be cleanly accounted for. This pattern is revisited multiple times throughout the narrative and is not presented as a one-time omission, but as an ongoing characteristic of her nature as an individual whose Past has been consumed by Nihility.
Acheron’s powers themselves directly revolve around the severance of causality, fate, and existence through Nihility, with her blade being a force that erodes continuity and reduces phenomena to a state of “as if they never existed.” Her own continued existence after being subjected to that same process establishes that her condition is not simply resistance to ordinary causality manipulation within an intact framework, but persistence after the collapse and erasure of the very causal structure tied to her origin.
Edit: I'll add some more points here and not reply further to the same people that have been commenting thus far.
The Shrek example:
Shadows of IX are explicitly described as "great black suns," while IX, being a black hole, itself is consistently referred to as the Black Sun, Dark Sun, Pitch-Black Great Sun, and similar titles. Scholars further believe that regions where space-time curvature reaches its greatest extremes are Shadows of IX, directly associating them with black hole-like phenomena. Self-Annihilators are also stated to cast the Shadow of the Aeon throughout the cosmos, and the black sun orbited by Izumo is itself identified as both a black hole and a Shadow of IX. Combined with descriptions of Nihility engulfing entropy, time, and existence itself, the narrative repeatedly presents these black-hole-like manifestations as expressions of IX rather than ordinary astrophysical objects. Therefore, the argument is not that every black hole is a Shadow of IX, but that the setting consistently links Shadows of IX to black holes and treats them as manifestations of Nihility. "Shadow of the Aeon" = Shadow of IX = Black Hole.
Some powers/elements belong to certain Paths. Black Hole creation belongs to Nihility and all Pathstriders of Nihility are Self-Annihilators. All Self-Annihilators can cast Shadows of IX so those two are the same thing. And just in case, I am not saying black holes can't be created through other means. However, those we've seen, other than Welt's, have all been Shadows of IX and came from Self-Annihilators.
Information and History Erasure =/= Destruction of documents universally:
Information or historical erasure does not inherently require every physical record, artifact, remnant, or fragment associated with the target to be universally destroyed unless the feat explicitly demonstrates that level of total erasure. The relevant question is whether the target's informational or historical continuity has been removed, severed, or rendered unrecoverable, not whether every conceivable residue ceases to exist.
Proposals
1) Acheron regains Acausality but Type 4 instead.
2) Being immune to Elio's Precognition = Precognition Resistance.
3) Able to summon Shadows of IX = Summoning
4) Since she crafted her blade instantly and magically enhanced it = Weapon Creation and Weapon Control.
5) Darkness Manipulation (Nihility's effects seem to engulf things in darkness as seen here and here).
Agree: @Planck69 (4 and 5 are fine. Neutral to the Summoning stuff. Agree with either Type 1 or Type 4. Agree for Precog Res (Limited or otherwise)
Disagree:
The most agreeable interpretation so far appears to be this one.
Since there's not enough evidence for it as of now, and since it seems to have too many, sometimes incoherent, interpretations, instead, the arguments presented here will be focused on Acausality Type 4. An existence operating under a fundamentally abnormal causal framework relative to conventional spacetime dependency.
I'll be addressing various points brought up in the other thread that removed Type 2 and lastly I will be also addressing a certain confusion regarding her BFR.
Izumo-Takamagahara, Nihility and Acheron's Past
I will first establish a clear chronology of Izumo’s collapse under the influence of Nihility.
Izumo was originally one of two planets (Izumo and Takamagahara) orbiting a “pitch-black great sun” engaged in a prolonged war against the Kami. During this period, its society normally developed history, including the forging of the Edict Edges (Sentinels) and later the Origin and End blades. At this stage, Izumo functioned under normal causal continuity, where historical events accumulated in a normal sequence.
This continuity begins to break following the influence of the Shadow of IX (Nihility). The Shadow of IX, which is an extension of IX, an apathetic, uninteractive Aeon who doesn't really do anything. One of their aliases being "The Sleeping") is explicitly described as a manifestation of IX capable of swallowing worlds and erasing meaning, producing phenomena such as Self-Annihilators and the degradation of existential significance.
The final stage occurs during Acheron’s confrontation with the remaining decisive force of Izumo’s conflict (Hakuhatsu Ki), where she wields the blade “Origin.” However, this conflict is stated to be after all, meaningless as Izumo and Takamagahara had already begun sinking into the Shadow of IX prior to its conclusion. There were no winners in this battle. Sorrow and meaninglessness engulf her, the Shadow of IX swallows her and she becomes a Self-Annihilator. Following this, Acheron in her grief and delirious state, delivers the final blow with her blade that she forged in that instant (The blade called "Naught" is the same one she uses in both the present and when striking Izumo) that seals the fate of the two planets annihilating them as if they had never existed. The same blade that is stated to be able to sever "cause and effect". Even in the trailer, we see the entire history of Izumo being absorbed inside the black hole. History is moving backwards to the beginning clearly signaling that it's being erased from its start which leads us to this statement of her having no Past. Crucially, the lore establishes that the Shadow of IX engulfing Izumo is not merely a physical catastrophe, but an ontological collapse event as Nihility is the opposite of reality.
After Izumo's destruction, Enigmata ended up involving itself by concealing, lying and twisting truths as it and its followers usually do. The truth, is thus, indecipherable. In fact, it was not JUST the planets that were enshrouded in Enigmata, it was the entire galaxy hosting the planets.
The key distinction established by the lore is that Izumo does not simply undergo conventional destruction. Instead, it is described as a situation whose history becomes lost to cosmic understanding, with only fragmented traces remaining and no coherent reconstruction possible even by later investigators.
In comparable cases, such as universe-level destruction events like Irontomb's, residual conceptual structures such as memories or “memoria”-like remnants still persist (before they were about to be turned into Destruction), preserving traces of what occurred. Similarly, even erased or altered timelines are typically understood to leave behind memoria that ends up floating throughout the world. The Remembrance is a universal, acausal concept. It transcends Time even though it is closely associated with it. It records everything that has happened, will happen and is happening so that they can be re-created upon the Universe's collapse.
However, Izumo is explicitly characterized as lacking even these residual traces. Systems associated with cosmic remembrance and record preservation are unable to retain or reconstruct meaningful information regarding its existence. It's disappearance from existing astral maps indicates that Izumo’s collapse is not merely physical destruction but a timeline-level, informational, existential erasure within a causal, reconstructible and recordable framework. Izumo just stopped existing creating a giant gap in the history of the universe.
Elio's Script
In this part, we'll be reviewing Elio's script and the concept of future timelines.
Acheron, because as an acausal paradox, does not appear in the forseeable future. Elio who supposedly sees all timelines and possibilities has no trace of her anywhere. Because Acheron isn't supposed to exist. I think the choice of words is obvious here. They are not refering to her Emanator status that Emanators of Nihility aren't possible, as it has been discussed before, but at her very existence.
From the HSR Wiki which is well-curated and trustworthy:
This is basically a repeat of the "Generals =/= Emanators" situation again and the last 2 patches have proven this to not be the case. There's no reason to think this situation is any different.
Clearly, it is possible. Not everyone believes it to be so however.
In the dialogue between Dan Heng and Boothill where they discuss the nature of Emanators of Nihility, it is evident that Dan Heng does not believe those exist, when it comes to Boothill, that's not the case. He seems open to the idea and in his previous dialogue with that cryptic line, he seems to be talking about the absence of her past. Of course, it wouldn't be absurd to assume that Boothill could also be talking about her Emanator status as later in his dialogue with Dan Heng, he also seems cautious of assuming it.
Moreover, Acheron’s abnormal relationship with Elio’s scripts is not treated as an isolated inconsistency, but as part of a broader pattern where deterministic future observation begins to fail in the presence of higher acausal or causality-disrupting phenomena. Originally in Penacony and even later in the 3.8 recton, the narrative repeatedly emphasizes that Acheron either cannot be properly accounted for within the script or exists outside its normal predictive ability. Importantly, one of the only other major situations where the script similarly failed to fully predict or stabilize outcomes occurred during the conflict surrounding Irontomb, where multiple Aeons and cosmic forces intersected simultaneously, including Fuli, whose very nature as the Aeon of Remembrance is tied to non-linear existence and acausal memory structures. Specifically as we see here, there's only 2 predicted outcomes. The erasure of Amphoreus or the death of the Universe. Neither of those happened because of Fuli's involvement. Instead a third outcome, not perceived by Elio, was achieved and resulted in Irontomb's defeat and Amphoreus' preservation through Cyrene's power as Fuli. The parallel matters because both cases involve entities fundamentally disconnected from ordinary causal progression. In Acheron’s case specifically, her origin and history were consumed by Nihility itself, severing the continuity between her existence and the past that should logically sustain it. As a result, she persists as a contradiction to normal causality: someone whose world, history, and future have been erased, yet who continues to exist and act within the present regardless.
There's also another thing. In the very distant future, Silver Wolf Lv.999's story explicitly revolves around Device IX even her confrontation with Polka Kakamond. Despite this, Acheron is absent from the projected sequence entirely despite her mentioning twice in Penacony that her next mission is to reach Device IX. There's 2 scenarios here. 1) She never finds Device IX. 2) Acheron is simply missing from the future. I am betting more towards the second considering the mountain of evidence suggesting that her future cannot be discerned due to her existence in her own causal chain being broken.
Misconceptions and common arguments
1) A point that was raised in the previous thread was this: "There's remnants of Izumo such as scrolls, theories and observations"
The thing is, the remains of its destruction are not preserved historical records belonging to an intact timeline, but disconnected remnants that no longer possess a functioning causal origin within the universe’s history.
This is why the surviving manuscripts and traces surrounding Izumo are consistently treated as fragmentary, uncertain, and unrecoverable rather than as evidence of a normally preserved past of a civilization. Researchers, recordkeepers and whoever else is investigating that phenomenon are unable to reconstruct a coherent historical continuity from them as the world itself vanished from astral history, and even Remembrance failed to properly preserve its existence.
In other words, these remnants behave less like preserved history and more like causally disconnected leftovers whose original continuity has been left severed.
This interpretation is consistent with Nihility’s established properties. If Acheron’s power can sever cause and effect and erase things “as if they never existed,” then the surviving fragments do not contradict the erasure. They can instead be understood as isolated residues that just survived. However, after the destruction of the larger causal structure that originally gave them context, continuity, and historical traceability, they are now stranded, cut from the causal chain of Izumo's existence and their time of creation with no way to pin-point their origin in the timeline.
Last but not least, the descriptions of Planar Ornaments are narrated through an omniscient narrator outside of the game's setting. The knowledge "inscribed" on them is not known to anyone else in-universe. There is no author nor source which in EVERY piece of text there always is one if it's from a source within the setting. That information is just spoonfed to us so we can understand the lore better. It doesn't demonstrate the knowledge of the characters on the planet and its culture.
2) A second point raised was this: "Zephyo, being a Self-Annihilator was predicted by Elio's script".
As I've already demonstrated, it's not the process of Self-Annihilation that made Acheron, or any Self-Annihilator for that matter, acausal. It was her striking the two worlds with the power of Nihility and "Naught".
3) A third point raised was that: "The Stellaron Hunters are not given the full scripts"
The claim that the Hunters are not given their full scripts, sometimes, is true.
However, the scene is crucial piece of information about Acheron's existence and nature and it is repeated TWICE. Both in the original patch and in the recton patch a whole year later.
For starters, there is no evidence that Firefly lacked the full script during that scene. The Stellaron Hunters are frequently shown receiving scripts that contain even extremely specific details and outcomes. Claiming that Firefly simply did not have the complete information at that moment is therefore speculative and undermines the narrative purpose of the scene itself. The entire sequence is structured around gradually unveiling Acheron’s true nature as a Self-Annihilator, especially since she had initially been framed as an ominous and enigmatic, threatening figure throughout Penacony’s story.
Acheron’s relationship with Elio’s scripts is repeatedly framed as abnormal. Elio’s foresight functions through branching futures, Finality's Omens and causal progression (very similarly to Herta's Simulated Universe which is reverse engineering the past and the divination techniques the Xianzhou uses) yet Acheron is consistently treated as an anomaly within that structure. In the quest "The Dream Split in Two", even a year after Penacony’s original release, the narrative revisits the fact that she does not properly appear within the scripted future in the same way other individuals do.
Specifically, Firefly says again:
Here, Firefly is surprised at two things. Acheron being an Emanator and being absent from the script. More accurately, Firefly is not particularly surprised that Emanators of the Nihility exist. She is simply stunned by the presence of one being there without warning. She seems aware of what her powers can do and is hellbent on getting the Trailblazer away from Nihility's range. Her familiarity with an Emanator of Nihility's powers should prove that there's precedent when it comes to their existence acting as further proof that Acheron is not the first one to be one making it more likely that Firefly is simply stunned Acheron was not mentioned in the script considering the risk she poses. The description of the quest when controlling Firefly is this further supporting the she knows the risks an Emanator such as her would pose. Additionally, Dahlia doesn't seem too surprised of Acheron's Emanatorship status either clearly talking as if she knows about them. Even more so, Dahlia had a script too in which Acheron wasn't mentioned either. The Hunters were both worried by the effects mere exposure to Nihility (this being the Zero-Point mission as in the highest priority) and Destruction would cause before the TB was ready. Surely, if Acheron could've interfered with the plan even without intending it as Nihility's effect is that powerful and the TB had to be guided out of the Horizon, the Hunters would've tried to avoid meeting with her especially since Firefly clearly is not fully aware of Acheron's intentions. (The Hunters don't just leave things to fate. Even with Irontomb's disaster, Kafka appeared in our minds to make sure we make the right decision. Even now in Planarcadia, Silver Wolf appeared again to save us despite her having pretty much no script) Even more so, Firefly seems a bit inconsistent when it comes to her script. To Acheron she revealed that she had only one line yet to the Trailblazer and Dahlia she also mentions the three deaths. Even more so, here she mentions the script having clues about the meme, "Death". Surprisingly she also reveals that the script said she'd confront the Express as SAM. It's more likely that her script is longer and that she's just not keen on sharing its details wtith anyone except for herself.
Essentially, this proves that Acheron is missing from Elio's scripts and that she cannot be detected by him.
Seperating BFR and Shadow of IX Summon
It also seems that there's been some confusion on her being able to bring forth Shadows of IX and her BFR. I will try to explain how those two are seperate things but can also coincide.
For starters, Shadows of IX that are manifestations of IX, as mentioned before too, can happen anywhere in the world and any Self-Annihilator can summon them for a large-scale catastrophical event. Many Self-Annihilators can summon them in quite a few ways. For example this Self-Annihilator had his own memories sealed inside a Bubble which after acquiring, a Shadow burst forth.
The Horizon of Existence is different. Here, it is explained that the it is the Border of Nihility and it requires someone to be affected by Nihility. Additionally, here, there's yet again a distinction on observers or beings/things afflicted by Nihility's power (Of course, it is an actual location though for the time being there's no more information regarding it).
Acheron, through her power of Nihility and being a Self-Annihilator, can directly manifest the Shadow in a space. This manifestation does not require displacement of targets into a separate domain or state within the Horizon of Existence, as the effect itself is an expression of Nihility's presence applied locally. The BFR is not a necessary prerequisite for the Shadow of IX’s activation, since the phenomenon can be invoked directly as a manifestation of a Self-Annihilator's/IX's power. Of course, because she passively carries Nihility's effect, which becomes active and affects things after drawing her Blade, she can affect things around her with it and BFR them without needing to summon a Shadow. She can selectively control who gets BFR-ed as she did with Aventurine and the TB despite multiple people being around them. Even during her in-game abilities, it's not necessary for her to summon a Shadow to BFR. And because every other time a Shadow has appeared, there's no mention of the Horizon, it is safe to say that those two don't need to go hand in hand.
tl;dr: She can summon the Shadow without needing to BFR and vice versa.
Conclusion/tl;dr
In conclusion, Acheron’s existence is consistently portrayed as an anomaly to ordinary causal and temporal continuity. The destruction of Izumo through Nihility did not only devastate a world physically, but also erased its historical continuity, causal trace, chain, and even it's existence as a memory from the universe to a degree portrayed as abnormal even by the standards of destroyed timelines and universes, which ordinarily still leave behind memoria or records within Remembrance. Despite this severance of origin, Acheron continues to exist as a surviving remnant of a history that no longer exists within the timeline.
This abnormality is further reinforced through the repeated failure or incompleteness of deterministic foresight surrounding her. Elio’s scripts, which are otherwise capable of mapping highly specific future outcomes across timelines and cosmic events, repeatedly treat Acheron as an irregularity whose future, role, or existence cannot be cleanly accounted for. This pattern is revisited multiple times throughout the narrative and is not presented as a one-time omission, but as an ongoing characteristic of her nature as an individual whose Past has been consumed by Nihility.
Acheron’s powers themselves directly revolve around the severance of causality, fate, and existence through Nihility, with her blade being a force that erodes continuity and reduces phenomena to a state of “as if they never existed.” Her own continued existence after being subjected to that same process establishes that her condition is not simply resistance to ordinary causality manipulation within an intact framework, but persistence after the collapse and erasure of the very causal structure tied to her origin.
Edit: I'll add some more points here and not reply further to the same people that have been commenting thus far.
The Shrek example:
The Black Holes = Shadows of IX argument:Sonofa... Okay. Have you watched Shrek Forever After? In that sequel Shrek visits a short ugly wizard because he wants something. That ugly thing tells him, he will grant his wish if Shrek gives him a day of his childhood. Shrek being a dumbass says "Take any day you want". Ugly says "Yay okay <3". Ugly ends up taking the day he was born. Shrek ends up disappearing.
Nihility took the entire history of Izumo including every day of Acheron's life since she was ******* born, raised and lived there. Please tell me you get it now. It doesn't get any more logical than this.
Shadows of IX are explicitly described as "great black suns," while IX, being a black hole, itself is consistently referred to as the Black Sun, Dark Sun, Pitch-Black Great Sun, and similar titles. Scholars further believe that regions where space-time curvature reaches its greatest extremes are Shadows of IX, directly associating them with black hole-like phenomena. Self-Annihilators are also stated to cast the Shadow of the Aeon throughout the cosmos, and the black sun orbited by Izumo is itself identified as both a black hole and a Shadow of IX. Combined with descriptions of Nihility engulfing entropy, time, and existence itself, the narrative repeatedly presents these black-hole-like manifestations as expressions of IX rather than ordinary astrophysical objects. Therefore, the argument is not that every black hole is a Shadow of IX, but that the setting consistently links Shadows of IX to black holes and treats them as manifestations of Nihility. "Shadow of the Aeon" = Shadow of IX = Black Hole.
Some powers/elements belong to certain Paths. Black Hole creation belongs to Nihility and all Pathstriders of Nihility are Self-Annihilators. All Self-Annihilators can cast Shadows of IX so those two are the same thing. And just in case, I am not saying black holes can't be created through other means. However, those we've seen, other than Welt's, have all been Shadows of IX and came from Self-Annihilators.
Information and History Erasure =/= Destruction of documents universally:
Information or historical erasure does not inherently require every physical record, artifact, remnant, or fragment associated with the target to be universally destroyed unless the feat explicitly demonstrates that level of total erasure. The relevant question is whether the target's informational or historical continuity has been removed, severed, or rendered unrecoverable, not whether every conceivable residue ceases to exist.
This here establishes the normal process by which planets disappear from astral charts. The world is first discovered, its destruction is confirmed, it is categorized as a deadworld, and only then is it removed from the charts through administrative action. Izumo was WIPED universally from ALL charts with no traces left behind. Charts are either printed out maps, digital systems, physical objects such as the Navigator compasses in Xianzhou and so on.
Proposals
1) Acheron regains Acausality but Type 4 instead.
2) Being immune to Elio's Precognition = Precognition Resistance.
3) Able to summon Shadows of IX = Summoning
4) Since she crafted her blade instantly and magically enhanced it = Weapon Creation and Weapon Control.
5) Darkness Manipulation (Nihility's effects seem to engulf things in darkness as seen here and here).
Agree: @Planck69 (4 and 5 are fine. Neutral to the Summoning stuff. Agree with either Type 1 or Type 4. Agree for Precog Res (Limited or otherwise)
Disagree:
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