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Cthulhu Mythos Revision - The Big One

Voidnether said:
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Hey man, can you please delete? This is very offensive to me as a wanker
Screenshot-2026-05-26-231011.png
 
Voidnether said:
@Mr._East_Statement ???
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Shrug, yeah what? I am not embarrassed by that

In the past I used to hate PSW bros for unjust reasons, and I was no wise myself, at all, so I am pretty comfortable for all to see that, what is even there to fear of? That I had outgrow my past? That I am befriend with Bern and Nova (uh, it seems Ale got upset… I should add: Bern, Nova and Aleplaza, yeah, fixed)? That I now, instead of being lost in the darkness of my own ignorance, know my hatred was misplaced?

I proud looking at that picture as of now, knowing "wow, I used to be such an idiot in the past."
 
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Mr._East_Statement said:
Shrug, yeah what? I am not embarrassed by that

In the past I used to hate PSW bros for unjust reasons, and I was no wise myself, at all, so I am pretty comfortable for all to see that, what is even there to fear of? That I had outgrow my past? That I am befriend with Bern and Nova? That I now, instead of being lost in the darkness of my own ignorance, know my hatred was misplaced?

I proud looking at that picture as of now, knowing "wow, I used to be such an idiot in the past."
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We couldve slandered PSW together but oh well
 
Mr._East_Statement said:
Shrug, yeah what? I am not embarrassed by that

In the past I used to hate PSW bros for unjust reasons, and I was no wise myself, at all, so I am pretty comfortable for all to see that, what is even there to fear of? That I had outgrow my past? That I am befriend with Bern and Nova? That I now, instead of being lost in the darkness of my own ignorance, know my hatred was misplaced?

I proud looking at that picture as of now, knowing "wow, I used to be such an idiot in the past."
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a tear came down my leg reading this 🥹

I will finish reading about neoplatonism now
 
SuperNova55555 said:
Hey man, I heard you was in need of sum likes, heres one from me, I got plenty to share ❤️‍🩹
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How bro felt: (not meant in an insulting way)

Voidnether said:
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I'm not the one who was harassing and stalking people off site for weeks because they couldn't take getting a shitpost made about their system, but i don't know why you're trying to institute more drama over something that happened like half a year ago, this probably is something worth pinging staff just to delete your derailing messages (while your at it, i think you should also delate any other derailing messages if thats alright with you two)
GrathOfLux said:
Snip
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IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
Snip
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Sanszillanime said:
I think we lost the plot
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Isn't that obviously what they're trying to achieve here? You don't just randomly appear with like 6+ people to leave like 2 pages worth of derailing comments and insults at the other party unless it's done deliberately
 
Anyways, i don't know what, if there even is one, the punishment for mass derailment even after being told to stop, so i won't push it, but i don't think there's a point to respond to obvious bait like this, you guys can continue your circle jerking for all it matters, and if staff ever steps in, i'll leave that to them
 
Hecky2222 said:
As Professional Lord of The Mid hater, I agree Klein has High 1-T/High 1-A+++++++++++++++++++++ Corruption


Mid, learn from king
image.png
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My eyes… this… this is genuinely peak

Sob, my eyes are full of tears
Vesxpura said:
i can teach you how to larp neoplatonism hmu
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Love you bro but I already know Neoplatonism thanks to da goat Plotinus that came to my dream (he said me to slander Genoticsm and glaze Plato instead for whatever reason).
 
People, the thread is 7 pages long already. Tier 1/0 threads already might as well be mod ghost towns, and I swear to Sigmar the last proper debating was happening on page 2. Page 3 was mostly bumps and page 4 is where it went to hell. You could delete over 100 posts from this thread, that is not kosher.
 
ShinMaximillion said:
Well... Ultima compiled every anti-statements for the ultimate abyss, and such being dimensional, conversely, statements for the ultimate abyss being beyond dimensionality. They concluded that the verse is fine at High Hyperversal, possibly Outerversal. He has been pretty involved in a lot of threads about Lovecraft and is pretty knowledgeable on this verse. I doubt this thread and blog will change anything about his conclusion about where the verse should be. On account of all of that, the statements used here were taken into account in the old thread. You can check it out for yourself, but if y'all want to wait for about 10 decades for Ultima to re-evaluate what he already did, then yalls can.

I checked the blog out, after it was also brought to my attention that there was vacuous parsing of the distinction between Lovecraft dimensions and regular dimensions. But this supposed distinction is not made clear beyond just "these aren't regular dimensions", so it seems more evasive than it does seem like a genuine attempt at reconciling apparent inconsistencies inverse.

It also doesn't help that the supposed dimensions are associated with geometric shapes when they start talking about cross-sections. Generally, though, it seems like there's an oversimplification of how geometry works.

Overtly abstract descriptive accounts for geometry are just being mistaken for qualities of 1-A/High 1-A ontologies. That's why, instead of an actual account of the distinctions between those dimensions and real dimensions. You can attempt a reductio ad absurdum to derive the conclusion that they are distinct, whilst not explaining what would be the symmetry breaker between those two.

Speaking of reductios, most of the arguments in the blog also abuse that inference rule to disregard certain nuances. Looking at the whole "if it is undimensioned, then it cannot follow that it is in any category of space". Which, sure, and? 1-A also has meta-spaces, and the only real thing that is truly beyond dimensionality is Tier 0. And it overlooks certain nuances, because higher-order dimensions (like infinite-dimensional spaces) tend to be fundamentally distinct from our physical three-dimensional space. If we want to take the reductios seriously, and apply this false dichotomy, why stop at 1-A? And not just make it Tier 0? Conversely, if we are to stop at 1-A by the assumption that it is either 'spatial' or 'completely removed from those categories'.

Is there any other motivation to stop at 1-A/High 1-A other than just desiring to use that obvious leap in logic to select which tier is more suitable for the benefit of this proposal?

Higher-order spaces like function spaces and configuration spaces like the Hilbert Space have an inner product norm. As opposed to regular physical and finite dimensions that have an Euclidean Distance Function as a norm. They can be used to model every description here just fine, as I've argued in the previous thread. Especially considering that the Inner product is less about measuring physical distance between two objects, but is closer to being abstract; the distance here is just the difference between two states in terms of their inner product.



I'm generally also not a fan of reducing every reading about literature to "how many buzzwords that fit power scaling standards can I find", and more of what those "buzzwords" imply contextually. So, considering the association between dimensions in Lovecraft and properties that are clearly geometric, like cross-sections and their explanatory relations to geometric shapes, makes it seem to me that it is obvious that these dimensions are not any different from topological spaces. Possibly 1-A is already giving the verse the benefit of the doubt; this is pushing it.

So I disagree, I'm not even gonna talk about the Tier 0 part. That. Is. Just. Ridiculous. Sorry. But it yall want to wait for Ultima to also disagree, you can just ignore me and do so! :D
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I agree this more understanding then the others
 
Kebabbaro.1 said:
When in the message did you ever see me mention "tier 0," "eternalism," etc.?
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Since an opportunity has arisen to talk about tier 0 and eternalism, I will take it.(I am talking to nobody here, it is just an opportunity to yap)

As I said in the message, I didn't use that scan to justify the tier 0 rating for the archetype, but simply for the whole question of whether the cone analogy can be used for all atemporal realms. However, in that scan, there's a statement that, if taken in the larger context, can justify the archetype as tier 0, and that is that the archetype is beyond perspective.
What is perspective? It's the reason why an X and Y carter can exist because it depends on the angle from which you view the archetype, but it is expressly undifferentiated because the facets are merely phantom projections differentiated(actual term used) by perspective of finite beings, which Is also btw the ultimate mystery(as it is the explanation of the relationship between facets) also with the ultimate abyss beling all partial and local things and carter saying that local and partial things are unreality, I think it's pretty clear that FOR the archetype these things doesn't exist as it is undifferentiated, after all it is absurd to claim that these things actually exist because you are basically saying that finite beings have some sort of power over the archetype in order to "cut it" instead merely of a prespective thing.
furthermore it is logical that the archetype is without parts considering that in the story the units with parts are expressly the gates also that the archetype cannot even have fragmentation in the first place because it would imply that it has an angle therefore that it participate in multiplicity.
this is the argument me and tom(strike argues for something else) use for tier 0.
also it's pretty hard to argue that something is eternalism when many realms are beyond temporal change and transcends one another and the whole question of temporal and atemporal angles.
for the whole "Why does Carter perceive other Carters, etc.?"

As explained in the blog, it's merely a consequence of the Ultimate Gate; it's not something of the archetype/abyss and carter is still a local manifestation.
 
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Kebabbaro.1 said:
Since an opportunity has arisen to talk about tier 0 and eternalism, I will take it.(I am talking to nobody here, it is just an opportunity to yap)

As I said in the message, I didn't use that scan to justify the tier 0 rating for the archetype, but simply for the whole question of whether the cone analogy can be used for all atemporal realms. However, in that scan, there's a statement that, if taken in the larger context, can justify the archetype as tier 0, and that is that the archetype is beyond perspective.
What is perspective? It's the reason why an X and Y carter can exist because it depends on the angle from which you view the archetype, but it is expressly undifferentiated because the facets are merely phantom projections differentiated(actual term used) by perspective of finite beings, which Is also btw the ultimate mystery(as it is the explanation of the relationship between facets) also with the ultimate abyss beling all partial and local things and carter saying that local and partial things are unreality, I think it's pretty clear that FOR the archetype these things doesn't exist as it is undifferentiated, after all it is absurd to claim that these things actually exist because you are basically saying that finite beings have some sort of power over the archetype in order to "cut it" instead merely of a prespective thing.
furthermore it is logical that the archetype is without parts considering that in the story the units with parts are expressly the gates also that the archetype cannot even have fragmentation in the first place because it would imply that it has an angle therefore that it participate in multiplicity.
this is the argument me and tom use for tier 0.
also it's pretty hard to argue that something is eternalism when many realms are beyond temporal change and transcends one another and the whole question of temporal and atemporal angles.
for the whole "Why does Carter perceive other Carters, etc.?"

As explained in the blog, it's merely a consequence of the Ultimate Gate; it's not something of the archetype/abyss and carter is still a local manifestation.
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While I do agree with the majority of your argument, there is one major issue that I personally have with it, it has nothing to do with scaling itself, but rather the writing.

Based on your argument, I'm presuming that you're using TTGOTSK, and last I checked, the majority of that story is seen through the eyes of Carter. This is where my issue with it comes in, through Lovecraft's other stories, we learn about Carter's character, and how arrogant and egotistical he is. Which begs the question "Can we consider Carter to be a reliable narrator?".

Yes, we do read all the things that conspire in the story, but how many of those details did happen, and how many of it was just to inflate Carter's ego. In regards to if Carter is a reliable narrator, that is iffy, but whether Carter is or isn't, is up to how one interprets him.

I'm going reiterate my first statement, I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just giving my thoughts on Carter in regards to all of this.
 
DaReaperMan said:
People, the thread is 7 pages long already. Tier 1/0 threads already might as well be mod ghost towns, and I swear to Sigmar the last proper debating was happening on page 2. Page 3 was mostly bumps and page 4 is where it went to hell. You could delete over 100 posts from this thread, that is not kosher.
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you could deleted all those posts and still not get a vote for 5 months
 
Sanszillanime said:
Based on your argument, I'm presuming that you're using TTGOTSK, and last I checked, the majority of that story is seen through the eyes of Carter. This is where my issue with it comes in, through Lovecraft's other stories, we learn about Carter's character, and how arrogant and egotistical he is. Which begs the question "Can we consider Carter to be a reliable narrator?".

Yes, we do read all the things that conspire in the story, but how many of those details did happen, and how many of it was just to inflate Carter's ego. In regards to if Carter is a reliable narrator, that is iffy, but whether Carter is or isn't, is up to how one interprets him.
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The "Carter" we all know and love is a VERY different "Carter" from the one retelling the story to his friends + cousin (ie, in character, he’s still technically the same "Carter” as before), i won't waste time spilling context since judging off your seeming knowledge, you're probably already aware of why (also, i'm just lazy)
 
Mr._East_Statement said:
I don't know how you get such a reading from the text, time is explicitly, objectively , is in line with an Externalism (Ops, miswritten, I don't know why my auto correct did that, I meant Eternalism) universe, wherein past and present and future exist simultaneously (as your text explicitly says), and thus, this is the reason why it is illusionary and "is merely the function of their consciousness", because finite being, by very nature, cannot view the bigger picture due to their finitude. In that case Supreme Archetype is but the total sum of all together thus "changeless totality", this is, to me at least, a far more intelligible reading of the text, honestly. Then, the students conquering time and change, is limited compared to the Archetype, that explicitly command all angles to their liking.
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Since we're still waiting for SpaceMan to evaluate, I'll take the opportunity explain in-depth why this is wrong and what you missed

But to clarify before i continue, this isn't identical to the arguments used in the blog and some of this Dio seemed to disagree with, this is more of my own interpretation that we decided not to include

The Cone isn’t just an analogy for the flow of time:​

I’ll make this part quick since there isn’t too much to cover. You seem to be under the impression that the analogy used for the Archetype in chapter 5 is just about the flow of time and nothing more, but the mere fact that Carter has facets in the outer extension (which would mean that the Outer Extension is still bound to the cone):
He was in many places at the same time. On earth, on October 7, 1883, a little boy named Randolph Carter was leaving the Snake-Den in the hushed evening light and running down the rocky slope and through the twisted-boughed orchard toward his Uncle Christopher’s house in the hills beyond Arkham—yet at that same moment, which was also somehow in the earthly year of 1928, a vague shadow not less Randolph Carter was sitting on a pedestal among the Ancient Ones in earth’s trans-dimensional extension. Here, too, was a third Randolph Carter in the unknown and formless cosmic abyss beyond the Ultimate Gate. And elsewhere, in a chaos of scenes whose infinite multiplicity and monstrous diversity brought him close to the brink of madness, were a limitless confusion of beings which he knew were as much himself as the local manifestation now beyond the Ultimate Gate.
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Would disprove this since it's already indisputably outside time:
By the time the rite was over Carter knew that he was in no region whose place could be told by earth’s geographers, and in no age whose date history could fix. For the nature of what was happening was not wholly unfamiliar to him. There were hints of it in the cryptical Pnakotic fragments, and a whole chapter in the forbidden Necronomicon of the mad Arab Abdul Alhazred had taken on significance when he had deciphered the designs graven on the Silver Key. A gate had been unlocked—not indeed the Ultimate Gate, but one leading from earth and time to that extension of earth which is outside time, and from which in turn the Ultimate Gate leads fearsomely and perilously to the Last Void which is outside all earths, all universes, and all matter.
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Memory and imagination shaped dim half-pictures with uncertain outlines amidst the seething chaos, but Carter knew that they were of memory and imagination only. Yet he felt that it was not chance which built these things in his consciousness, but rather some vast reality, ineffable and undimensioned, which surrounded him and strove to translate itself into the only symbols he was capable of grasping. For no mind of earth may grasp the extensions of shape which interweave in the oblique gulfs outside time and the dimensions we know.
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Almost stunned with awe, and with a kind of terrifying delight, Randolph Carter’s consciousness did homage to that transcendent ENTITY from which it was derived. As the waves paused again he pondered in the mighty silence, thinking of strange tributes, stranger questions, and still stranger requests. Curious concepts flowed conflictingly through a brain dazed with unaccustomed vistas and unforeseen disclosures. It occurred to him that, if those disclosures were literally true, he might bodily visit all those infinitely distant ages and parts of the universe which he had hitherto known only in dreams, could he but command the magic to change the angle of his consciousness-plane. And did not the Silver Key supply that magic? Had it not first changed him from a man in 1928 to a boy in 1883, and then to something quite outside time? Oddly, despite his present apparent absence of body, he knew that the Key was still with him.
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  • The First Gate leads Carter into a realm explicitly described multiple times as outside time, yet the cone analogy still treats the Carter beyond the First Gate as merely another facet of the same eternal Carter? This shouldn't be possible if it only dealt with time
You may be thinking now that “If the cone isn’t just about time, what else is it about?” the answer is simple and already found in both the blogs and the statements you quoted: it also deals with ontology, and here's it is:
As the waves paused again, Carter began to comprehend, vaguely and terrifiedly, the ultimate background of that riddle of lost individuality which had at first so horrified him. His intuition pieced together the fragments of revelation, and brought him closer and closer to a grasp of the secret. He understood that much of the frightful revelation would have come upon him—splitting up his ego amongst myriads of earthly counterparts—inside the First Gate, had not the magic of ’Umr at-Tawil kept it from him in order that he might use the Silver Key with precision for the Ultimate Gate’s opening. Anxious for clearer knowledge, he sent out waves of thought, asking more of the exact relationship between his various facets—the fragment now beyond the Ultimate Gate, the fragment still on the quasi-hexagonal pedestal beyond the First Gate, the boy of 1883, the man of 1928, the various ancestral beings who had formed his heritage and the bulwark of his ego, and the nameless denizens of the other aeons and other worlds which that first hideous flash of ultimate perception had identified with him. Slowly the waves of the BEING surged out in reply, trying to make plain what was almost beyond the reach of an earthly mind. All descended lines of beings of the finite dimensions, continued the waves, and all stages of growth in each one of these beings, are merely manifestations of one archetypal and eternal being in the space outside dimensions. Each local being—son, father, grandfather, and so on—and each stage of individual being—infant, child, boy, young man, old man—is merely one of the infinite phases of that same archetypal and eternal being, caused by a variation in the angle of the consciousness-plane which cuts it. Randolph Carter at all ages; Randolph Carter and all his ancestors both human and pre-human, terrestrial and pre-terrestrial; all these were only phases of one ultimate, eternal “Carter” outside space and time—phantom projections differentiated only by the angle at which the plane of consciousness happened to cut the eternal archetype in each case.
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Carter, still unsatisfied by the Archetype's first explanation (which is the excerpt you quoted as this happens only a paragraph deeper in) on the illusion of individuality (this ties back into the first 6ish paragraphs of chapter 4, more on that later), asks for elaboration on the relationship between his facets

The Archetype answers by telling him that each individual being; "son, father, grandfather, and so on" (the ontological aspect of this statement), and each stage of growth in each one of these individual beings; "infant, child, boy, young man, old man" (the temporal aspect of this statement), are nothing but manifestations, phases, and projections of that same archetypal and eternal being, confirming that the preceding excerpt you quoted also deals with identity

The Archetype is NOT the sum of all slices:​

What I mean by this is that saying it's a totality of slices makes no sense since nothing outside of the Archetype has real existence

This is explained through the aforementioned cone analogy:
After an impressive pause the waves continued, saying that what the denizens of few-dimensioned zones call change is merely a function of their consciousness, which views the external world from various cosmic angles. As the shapes produced by the cutting of a cone seem to vary with the angles of cutting—being circle, ellipse, parabola, or hyperbola according to that angle, yet without any change in the cone itself—so do the local aspects of an unchanged and endless reality seem to change with the cosmic angle of regarding. To this variety of angles of consciousness the feeble beings of the inner worlds are slaves, since with rare exceptions they cannot learn to control them. Only a few students of forbidden things have gained inklings of this control, and have thereby conquered time and change. But the entities outside the Gates command all angles, and view the myriad parts of the cosmos in terms of fragmentary, change-involving perspective, or of the changeless totality beyond perspective, in accordance with their will.
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All descended lines of beings of the finite dimensions, continued the waves, and all stages of growth in each one of these beings, are merely manifestations of one archetypal and eternal being in the space outside dimensions. Each local being—son, father, grandfather, and so on—and each stage of individual being—infant, child, boy, young man, old man—is merely one of the infinite phases of that same archetypal and eternal being, caused by a variation in the angle of the consciousness-plane which cuts it. Randolph Carter at all ages; Randolph Carter and all his ancestors both human and pre-human, terrestrial and pre-terrestrial; all these were only phases of one ultimate, eternal “Carter” outside space and time—phantom projections differentiated only by the angle at which the plane of consciousness happened to cut the eternal archetype in each case.
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  • Cutting a cone from different angles would produce different shapes; circle, ellipse, parabola, hyperbola, etc, but none independent from or existing alongside one another. They are merely appearances generated by viewing the unchanged and singular object from different angles. In other words, the undifferentiated cone is the reality, while its multiple cross-sections are phantom (unreal, illusory) projections of it
And we have other statements which reiterate this:
“The man of Truth is beyond good and evil,” intoned a voice that was not a voice. “The man of Truth has ridden to All-Is-One. The man of Truth has learnt that Illusion is the only reality, and that substance is an impostor.”
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  • The man of Truth (Which 'Umr At-Tawil uses in context to someone whose gone beyond the Ultimate Gate, more on that shortly) has learned that "All-is-One" in the sense that literally nothing outside of the "One" truly exists, hence why Illusion is the only reality and substance is an impostor
Anyways, here is the excerpt from the beginning of Chapter 4 that i was foreshadowing:
And then, suddenly, he felt a greater terror than that which any of the Forms could give—a terror from which he could not flee because it was connected with himself. Even the First Gateway had taken something of stability from him, leaving him uncertain about his bodily form and about his relationship to the mistily defined objects around him, but it had not disturbed his sense of unity. He had still been Randolph Carter, a fixed point in the dimensional seething. Now, beyond the Ultimate Gateway, he realised in a moment of consuming fright that he was not one person, but many persons. He was in many places at the same time. On earth, on October 7, 1883, a little boy named Randolph Carter was leaving the Snake-Den in the hushed evening light and running down the rocky slope and through the twisted-boughed orchard toward his Uncle Christopher’s house in the hills beyond Arkham—yet at that same moment, which was also somehow in the earthly year of 1928, a vague shadow not less Randolph Carter was sitting on a pedestal among the Ancient Ones in earth’s trans-dimensional extension. Here, too, was a third Randolph Carter in the unknown and formless cosmic abyss beyond the Ultimate Gate. And elsewhere, in a chaos of scenes whose infinite multiplicity and monstrous diversity brought him close to the brink of madness, were a limitless confusion of beings which he knew were as much himself as the local manifestation now beyond the Ultimate Gate. There were “Carters” in settings belonging to every known and suspected age of earth’s history, and to remoter ages of earthly entity transcending knowledge, suspicion, and credibility. “Carters” of forms both human and non-human, vertebrate and invertebrate, conscious and mindless, animal and vegetable. And more, there were “Carters” having nothing in common with earthly life, but moving outrageously amidst backgrounds of other planets and systems and galaxies and cosmic continua. Spores of eternal life drifting from world to world, universe to universe, yet all equally himself. Some of the glimpses recalled dreams—both faint and vivid, single and persistent—which he had had through the long years since he first began to dream, and a few possessed a haunting, fascinating, and almost horrible familiarity which no earthly logic could explain. Faced with this realisation, Randolph Carter reeled in the clutch of supreme horror—horror such as had not been hinted even at the climax of that hideous night when two had ventured into an ancient and abhorred necropolis under a waning moon and only one had emerged. No death, no doom, no anguish can arouse the surpassing despair which flows from a loss of identity. Merging with nothingness is peaceful oblivion; but to be aware of existence and yet to know that one is no longer a definite being distinguished from other beings—that one no longer has a self—that is the nameless summit of agony and dread. He knew that there had been a Randolph Carter of Boston, yet could not be sure whether he—the fragment or facet of an earthly entity beyond the Ultimate Gate—had been that one or some other. His self had been annihilated; and yet he—if indeed there could, in view of that utter nullity of individual existence, be such a thing as he—was equally aware of being in some inconceivable way a legion of selves. It was as though his body had been suddenly transformed into one of those many-limbed and many-headed effigies sculptured in Indian temples, and he contemplated the aggregation in a bewildered attempt to discern which was the original and which the additions—if indeed (supremely monstrous thought) there were any original as distinguished from other embodiments.
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  • After Carter crosses the Ultimate Gate, he's left in horror that he can no longer distinguish himself from others as "his self had been annihilated" in "that utter nullity of individual existence." This why 'Umr At-Tawil associates "The Man of Truth" with someone beyond the Ultimate Gate, because what's what's beyond the Ultimate Gate "belies all perspective" of the cone as the changeless totality, so when Carter passes the Ultimate Gate, he is no longer viewing an individual slice of the cone. He's viewing what he perceived as slices in an inseparable totality, or more accurately, he became the whole instead of just being an unreal slice of it, which is why became "multiple" since they’re as much himself as he is himself, meaning even the alleged "multiplicity" is nondual in nature
This is further confirmed to be a loss of Self-Other boundaries by an explicit statement later on linking it as such:
As the waves paused again, Carter began to comprehend, vaguely and terrifiedly, the ultimate background of that riddle of lost individuality which had at first so horrified him. His intuition pieced together the fragments of revelation, and brought him closer and closer to a grasp of the secret. He understood that much of the frightful revelation would have come upon him—splitting up his ego amongst myriads of earthly counterparts
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  • Once again, this is explicitly in context to the first 6ish paragraphs of Chapter 4; confirming that his ego (his sense of "I") split amongst his facets after crossing the Ultimate Gate, meaning even the "multiplicity" is nondual since it exists in an undifferentiated state, this also implies that "perspective" of the cone is meant more allegorical than cross-sections of the Archetype, essentially just being ones individual ego
In this way, the cone is MUCH closer something you would see out of Vedanta with the many-faceted crystal analogy or other nondual philosophies rather than eternalism
 
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