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Cthulhu Mythos Revision - The Big One

Mythic381 said:
Unironically that happened to me on the Gamoeverse discussion thread

Raiki seems like a chill person ngl

Or you can just get a bunch of people to like all the comments you've ever sent. (I'll kidnap mods if that's what it takes)
Click to expand...
icl it might js work. the powerscaling community seems unemployed enough to like 2395 messages in one sitting
 
Okstrike said:
I love how it's always the same three to five people mindlessly liking your comments the second you post them, and those same people also happen to be in your friend group
Click to expand...
image.png

Same energy
 
I’d like to ask, for a CRT that hasn’t received a reply from any admin for a long time, what will happen to it in the end?
 
Hecky2222 said:
image.png

Same energy
Click to expand...
Can we not just insult random people like that?

Also, how are they any similar? That guys complaining about like-disliking in general while i just said that the same 5ish people from the same friend group keeping liking each other
 
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6zao2 said:
I’d like to ask, for a CRT that hasn’t received a reply from any admin for a long time, what will happen to it in the end?
Click to expand...
1 of 3 things

  • It'll die out and people will stop replying.
  • Someone will request a moderator to close it.
  • A moderator will actually see it and do smth.
 
Mythic381 said:
1 of 3 things
  • It'll die out and people will stop replying.
  • Someone will request a moderator to close it.
  • A moderator will actually see it and do smth.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty only the OP can request it to be closed unless the OP is inactive or something
 
Mythic381 said:
It'll die out and people will stop replying.
Click to expand...
Isn’t that a bit of a pity? If the admin never gives a verdict, wouldn’t all the time and effort spent by the writer and the people discussing it be wasted?That is truly the most nihilistic outcome of all.
 
6zao2 said:
Isn’t that a bit of a pity? If the admin never gives a verdict, wouldn’t all the time and effort spent by the writer and the people discussing it be wasted?That is truly the most nihilistic outcome of all.
Click to expand...
It Is life
 
I'm pretty sure that if this does get accepted, someone will debunk by using their own interpretation of statements, and then someone will debunk that debunk by doing the same the thing. And then someone debunks the debunk that was debunking a debunk, and the cycle goes on forever.

Due to Lovecraft's vague statements.
 
ShinMaximillion said:
please! I'd love to have that order if I'll be allowed to.
Click to expand...
Sure, Ig
SuperNova55555 said:
Never ask a CM scaler why the fragmentation of the archetype happens only in relation to few-dimensioned beings and not dimensioned beings in general
Click to expand...
first message, regarding the nature of time inverse.
Kebabbaro.1 said:
Never ask a PSWiki user how to read a scan, because the time scan literally only says that time exists for beings in limited dimensions it does not necessarily imply that those who perceive time are higher-dimensional which is further proven by hound of tindalos statements regarding time(which unronically is basically the same) and how if you see it as illusion you will also see space and by proxy higher dimensional framework as illusion and also even in the very scan you are quoting they tell you that those who sees temporal change as illusion sees shapes(in general) as illusion so good try, it doesn't work.

after this comment, I am going to take my beauty sleep
Click to expand...
my answer is that the statement of time in through the gates of the silver key doesn't logically entails like novas was trying to claim that to see time as illusion is to be higher dimensional just that it exists for beings in limited dimensions(3D people), nothing more nothing less.

"Time, the waves went on, is motionless, and without beginning or end. That it has motion, and is the cause of change, is an illusion. Indeed, it is itself really an illusion, for except to the narrow sight of beings in limited dimensions there are no such things as past, present, and future. Men think of time only because of what they call change, yet that too is illusion. All that was, and is, and is to be, exists simultaneously."

in the hound of tindalos clarify this concept by saying that space and time are identical and therefore illusions which includes even higher dimensional framework explicitly (too lazy to copy and paste the statements, just check the extension of the earth at the very end) so viewing time as illusion would indeed mean that you are beyond dimensional framework.

I also claimed that the very statement he was quoting would also prove that as quite litteraly for something beyond temporal change shapes(dimensions) are illusions to the changeless reality

"After an impressive pause the waves continued, saying that what the denizens of few-dimensioned zones call change is merely a function of their consciousness, which views the external world from various cosmic angles. As the shapes produced by the cutting of a cone seem to vary with the angles of cutting—being circle, ellipse, parabola, or hyperbola according to that angle, yet without any change in the cone itself—so do the local aspects of an unchanged and endless reality seem to change with the cosmic angle of regarding. To this variety of angles of consciousness the feeble beings of the inner worlds are slaves, since with rare exceptions they cannot learn to control them. Only a few students of forbidden things have gained inklings of this control, and have thereby conquered time and change. But the entities outside the Gates command all angles, and view the myriad parts of the cosmos in terms of fragmentary, change-involving perspective, or of the changeless totality beyond perspective, in accordance with their will."
SuperNova55555 said:
Damn man. I wonder why in the same paragraph it says that the beings who don’t perceive that fragmentation are immediately just the ones outside all the gates.

Totally unrelated, mhm-mhm, nom nom nom.


…But, as I write this, I’ve come to realize that I must give my apologies.

After being absolutely taught and rhetorically eviscerated by enlightened minds such as “OkStrike” and “Dio”, I’ve come to the realization that Lovecraft is actually… a total buffoon with no literary coherency!

Silly me, I should’ve realized earlier that Lovecraft is the type of person to put two lines in the same paragraph and for them to be completely unrelated to each other!

Holism? Context? Pfffffff. We only got agenda here!
Click to expand...
in here Novas slammed me
Kebabbaro.1 said:
I love how you prove my point: you don’t know how to read (though that was expected).

‘To this variety of angles of consciousness the feeble beings of the inner worlds are slaves, since with rare exceptions they cannot learn to control them. Only a few students of forbidden things have gained inklings of this control, and have thereby conquered time and change.’

I wonder, if Lovecraft wanted to say that only the archetypes could control angles, then why does he say that some students were able to conquer time and change through gaining knowledge of these angles? And why does he say that "BUT the archetypes are outside ALL angles?" Maybe because angularity itself is not bound to temporal change(which is what the time being an illusion is refearing to,temporal change). Wow.

also I love your talk about "context and holistic vision" when you blatantly ignore context and other scans, once again, hound Tindalos and try to attack what you perceive as the weakest argument, very funny....
Click to expand...
in here, I asked novas if lovecraft wanted to say only the archetypes could control the angles why then students were able to conquer time and change via controlling this knowledge and why lovecraft when making the distinction between them and the archetypes he says "the archetypes command ALL angles" and I already hinted to the fact that angularity is not bounded by temporal changes(as like the type of angles that is being discussed in the quote is of that kind)
SuperNova55555 said:
That’s not an issue to my argument. At all. The scan pretty blatant juxtaposes what is intrinsically bound by change as being low-dimensioned zones and what is intrinsically unbound by it as being the place outside the gates. That there are some rare people who bypass this “intrinsicness” is not a defeater to the duality, or the implication here. I.e that only the Ultimate Abyss is naturally beyond change, because it stands beyond few-dimensioned zones, because being few-dimensioned is what pre-disposes someone to being bound by change. That they bypass such disposition is not relevant here.
Click to expand...
in here, novas tries to claim that the conquerors of time doesn't have to be beyond time by nature unlike the ultimate abyss.
Kebabbaro.1 said:
It is an issue and even a pretty big one for you.
I guess, it's true by THAT scan ALONE you can make the argument that the conquerors of time and change doesn't really prove that they intrinsically transcends time and they are only a rare exceptions and only the ultimate abyss does that but sadly we have something called context to helps us understand that they do and that cone analogy naturally apply to them, as we know the gates of silver key VERBETEM said that the silver key can change the angle of consciousness to make you become/bring you to places outside and beyond time for example the exstension of the earth or the dreamlands, it would be utterly non-sensical saying that the silver key has the power to bring you to places outside of time if the only place outside of time in nature is the ultimate abyss, this is why I said previously that angularity is not bound by temporal change and that that type of change is what is refeared as illusion in that quote in gates hence with that context which is also in context with things like hound of tindalos(which treat temporal change and higher dimensional framework as illusion much like that scan is saying that those outside of temporal change sees the shapes as illusion, so it's in reference to whoever sees time as illusion which is confirmed with the conquerors) that seeing time as illusion=seeing shapes as one.
the ultimate abyss is the ONLY place outside CHANGE(cuz again angles are change and angles are not bound by temporal change, which is confirmed later with the statement that the silver key changed his angle in one outside of time) straight up but not the only which is by nature outside temporal change which is what the scan talks about as by ruling over these angles these students conquered time and change yet only the archetypes are outside all of them.


sorry, for eventual mistake, it's late here and my brain is cooked cuz it wants to sleep(I just got off work), you can ignore this message if you want,after all only the mods have value here.
good night for real this time.
Click to expand...
you can ignore this, I was cooked when I made this and it's a pretty much a repetition of the same shit I typed over and over.
just remember the "I guess, it's true by THAT scan ALONE you can make...."
Kebabbaro.1 said:
I'll make the point simpler and less repetitive for those interested (sorry, I was fried yesterday).

What the quote is saying is: what people call change is merely the product of the mind of the archetypes, and those shapes appear to change but don't because they are merely local aspects of a changeless reality. So it's logical to think, "Oh, well, that's a statement that applies only to archetypes and that's it." But that's not the case, because then you're told that only a few scholars have learned to command these angles and thus conquered TIME AND CHANGE. So, it's telling you that time IS the angle (because the previous quote literally says that time = change). And that's the crux of the question. So, that statement about changing shapes and how they're illusions is merely in reference to the fact that, obviously, the ultimate abyss is outside of temporal change, but we have confermation later (but also before actually, via reasoning) that angularity isn't limited by temporal change, since the silver key can take you/transform you to places outside and beyond space and time by changing the angle of consciousness.

In short what I am saying is, that Scan and the cone analogy Is not talking about angles in general but only temporal angles and how if you see temporal angles as illusion, the cone analogy will be applicable to you so any realm/structure etc beyond time has this, basically another argument for "seeing time as illusion= Beyond dimensional framework."

(Fun fact this argument came in my mind thanks to novas mentioning the Scan and so by Reading It in my mind I came up with another argument for seeing time as illusion= Beyond dimensional framework kek, and even if we ignore this whole argument which I think we shouldnt, It Wont change anything in the grand scheme of things as lol the extension of earth Is formless, hound of tindalos exist, etc LOLOLOLOL)
Click to expand...
I think, this explanation is pretty clear.
basically I am saying that that quote we were discussing only talks about one type of angle, the temporal one but we know pretty objectively(which is also confirmed later) that there are also non-temporal angles as for example quite litteraly it's stated that the silver key can change the angle of consciousness of the people to something outside of time(ancient one) + all the various statement for the fact that the silver key leads to places beyond space and time like the dreamlands etc. which would be non-sensical if the angle of consciousness were bound by temporal change.
so I made the claim that the cone analogy which sees shapes(dimensions) as illusion should be applicable for all non-temporal realms/structure like for example the extension of the earth(which is also formless btw) or the dreamlands.
Kebabbaro.1 said:
I wanted to add something to what I said in this comment. In the comment before this one I'm commenting on, I said, "I guess, it's true by THAT scan ALONE you can make..." but I wanted to correct myself and say that no, not even with that single scan alone can you make that "intrinsicness" argument, because the scan presents the distinction between archetypes and conquerors of time not as temporal beings vs. beings outside of time by nature but in how much you command. There are beings who are slaves to these angles, but then there are these scholars who are the conquerors of time and change because they govern these angles, BUT the archetypes govern them all. So yes, it's a distinction of control, so genuinely these conquerors are by nature superior to these angles. also as I explained in the comment I'm commenting on, the reason they tell you "they command all angles" is that as I explained that in the quote these angles are time and we know, data in hand, that there are timeless angles, so the whole quote as far as the whole cone analogy is concerned is explaining to you any reality beyond temporal change.

but, I am just a lowly wanker so I don't matter in the grand scheme of things
Click to expand...
this one is simply something I added, a later thought regarding how that intrinsicness argument doesn't even work cuz the main difference between conquerors and archetype is not "X is bound by time and Y is not" but explictly of level of control hence why the majority of the few-dimensioned people(basically humans inverse or anything 3D) are bound by change cuz they don't have this control while the conquerors does and by this they were freed from time while the archetypes are beyond even that cuz they command ALL angles(hence why I also introduced the notion of non-temporal angles, to explain why despite controlling the angle of time the archetypes are still beyond them).
also the whole discussion of if they are intrinsically beyond change or not, doesn't really matter cuz my main point like I said is to claim that in quote there what is being addressed is just a type of angle(temporal) and what happen when you are beyond said type of angle.

anddddddd this is where the conversation between me and him ended.

tbh, I am very tired cuz it's an endless arguing that is going nowhere, well anyway my job here is done now I'm going to have dinner and then I'll take a shower and go to sleep bye.(if you have something interesting to say regarding the topic or something that should be clarified, I could answer back)
 
… Too much texts for no meaningful conclusion…

I am definitely not going to answer it, that's Shin's and Nova's twisted fate, and participating in it sounds like dooming oneself.

But only on this part
Kebabbaro.1 said:
Sure, Ig

first message, regarding the nature of time inverse.

my answer is that the statement of time in through the gates of the silver key doesn't logically entails like novas was trying to claim that to see time as illusion is to be higher dimensional just that it exists for beings in limited dimensions(3D people), nothing more nothing less.

"Time, the waves went on, is motionless, and without beginning or end. That it has motion, and is the cause of change, is an illusion. Indeed, it is itself really an illusion, for except to the narrow sight of beings in limited dimensions there are no such things as past, present, and future. Men think of time only because of what they call change, yet that too is illusion. All that was, and is, and is to be, exists simultaneously."

in the hound of tindalos clarify this concept by saying that space and time are identical and therefore illusions which includes even higher dimensional framework explicitly (too lazy to copy and paste the statements, just check the extension of the earth at the very end) so viewing time as illusion would indeed mean that you are beyond dimensional framework.

I also claimed that the very statement he was quoting would also prove that as quite litteraly for something beyond temporal change shapes(dimensions) are illusions to the changeless reality

"After an impressive pause the waves continued, saying that what the denizens of few-dimensioned zones call change is merely a function of their consciousness, which views the external world from various cosmic angles. As the shapes produced by the cutting of a cone seem to vary with the angles of cutting—being circle, ellipse, parabola, or hyperbola according to that angle, yet without any change in the cone itself—so do the local aspects of an unchanged and endless reality seem to change with the cosmic angle of regarding. To this variety of angles of consciousness the feeble beings of the inner worlds are slaves, since with rare exceptions they cannot learn to control them. Only a few students of forbidden things have gained inklings of this control, and have thereby conquered time and change. But the entities outside the Gates command all angles, and view the myriad parts of the cosmos in terms of fragmentary, change-involving perspective, or of the changeless totality beyond perspective, in accordance with their will."
Click to expand...

I don't know how you get such a reading from the text, time is explicitly, objectively , is in line with an Externalism (Ops, miswritten, I don't know why my auto correct did that, I meant Eternalism) universe, wherein past and present and future exist simultaneously (as your text explicitly says), and thus, this is the reason why it is illusionary and "is merely the function of their consciousness", because finite being, by very nature, cannot view the bigger picture due to their finitude. In that case Supreme Archetype is but the total sum of all together thus "changeless totality", this is, to me at least, a far more intelligible reading of the text, honestly. Then, the students conquering time and change, is limited compared to the Archetype, that explicitly command all angles to their liking.

… I don't get any superiority from those lines. Worse, reading all of it, I don't know how it would be Tier-0 if we accept all the claims.

Kebabbaro.1 said:
in here Novas slammed me

in here, I asked novas if lovecraft wanted to say only the archetypes could control the angles why then students were able to conquer time and change via controlling this knowledge and why lovecraft when making the distinction between them and the archetypes he says "the archetypes command ALL angles" and I already hinted to the fact that angularity is not bounded by temporal changes(as like the type of angles that is being discussed in the quote is of that kind)

in here, novas tries to claim that the conquerors of time doesn't have to be beyond time by nature unlike the ultimate abyss.

you can ignore this, I was cooked when I made this and it's a pretty much a repetition of the same shit I typed over and over.
just remember the "I guess, it's true by THAT scan ALONE you can make...."

I think, this explanation is pretty clear.
basically I am saying that that quote we were discussing only talks about one type of angle, the temporal one but we know pretty objectively(which is also confirmed later) that there are also non-temporal angles as for example quite litteraly it's stated that the silver key can change the angle of consciousness of the people to something outside of time(ancient one) + all the various statement for the fact that the silver key leads to places beyond space and time like the dreamlands etc. which would be non-sensical if the angle of consciousness were bound by temporal change.
so I made the claim that the cone analogy which sees shapes(dimensions) as illusion should be applicable for all non-temporal realms/structure like for example the extension of the earth(which is also formless btw) or the dreamlands.

this one is simply something I added, a later thought regarding how that intrinsicness argument doesn't even work cuz the main difference between conquerors and archetype is not "X is bound by time and Y is not" but explictly of level of control hence why the majority of the few-dimensioned people(basically humans inverse or anything 3D) are bound by change cuz they don't have this control while the conquerors does and by this they were freed from time while the archetypes are beyond even that cuz they command ALL angles(hence why I also introduced the notion of non-temporal angles, to explain why despite controlling the angle of time the archetypes are still beyond them).
also the whole discussion of if they are intrinsically beyond change or not, doesn't really matter cuz my main point like I said is to claim that in quote there what is being addressed is just a type of angle(temporal) and what happen when you are beyond said type of angle.

anddddddd this is where the conversation between me and him ended.

tbh, I am very tired cuz it's an endless arguing that is going nowhere, well anyway my job here is done now I'm going to have dinner and then I'll take a shower and go to sleep bye.(if you have something interesting to say regarding the topic or something that should be clarified, I could answer back)
Click to expand...

Yes you are right it being repeating yourself in a form that only creates confusion over the whole text.

I am just going to side with Nova and Shin over this.
 
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Mr._East_Statement said:
I don't know how you get such a reading from the text, time is explicitly, objectively , is in line with an Externalism universe, wherein past and present and future exist simultaneously (as your text explicitly says), and thus, this is the reason why it is illusionary and "is merely the function of their consciousness", because finite being, by very nature, cannot view the bigger picture due to their finitude. In that case Supreme Archetype is but the total sum of all together thus "changeless totality", this is, to me at least, a far more intelligible reading of the text, honestly. Then, the students conquering time and change, is limited compared to the Archetype, that explicitly command all angles to their liking.
Click to expand...
companion.gif

This is like the 8th time this thread you guys have regurgitated things already addressed in the blogs and/or comments or just brought up something completely unrelated🥀

(I'll break it down for you later if i have time though since tbf, you didn't seem to have seen the earlier discussions)
 
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Mr._East_Statement said:
I don't know how you get such a reading from the text, time is explicitly, objectively , is in line with an Externalism universe, wherein past and present and future exist simultaneously (as your text explicitly says), and thus, this is the reason why it is illusionary and "is merely the function of their consciousness", because finite being, by very nature, cannot view the bigger picture due to their finitude. In that case Supreme Archetype is but the total sum of all together thus "changeless totality", this is, to me at least, a far more intelligible reading of the text, honestly. Then, the students conquering time and change, is limited compared to the Archetype, that explicitly command all angles to their liking.

… I don't get any superiority from those lines. Worse, reading all of it, I don't know how it would be Tier-0 if we accept all the claims.
Click to expand...
I think this is probably the biggest misread of one of my messages I've ever seen.
When in the message did you ever see me mention "tier 0," "eternalism," etc.?
All I said was, "No, the time statement doesn't imply that you have to be higher-dimensional to see it as an illusion.(Cuz that Is what novas Is implying)
You also missed the whole point about the difference between temporal and atemporal angles. Do you think I'm just going around saying this applies to X without justifying it? I justified this statement by introducing the difference between the two aforementioned angles and how the passage refers to temporal ones to make the statement, "It applies to all realms beyond temporal change."
Mr._East_Statement said:
I am definitely not going to answer it, that's Shin's and Nova's twisted fate, and participating in it sounds like dooming oneself.

But only on this part
Click to expand...
At this point was Better for you if you didnt answer.
It's Just an endless arguing, like I said it's Better if we wait the mods.(Even tho prolly they Will never arrive)



Anyway good night fellas
 
Okstrike said:
companion.gif

This is like the 8th time this thread you guys have regurgitated things already addressed in the blogs and/or comments🥀(Me and Dio will break it down for you later)
Click to expand...

Shrug, this answer looks promising, I am definitely going to enjoy the ratio farms that comes with it.

Kebabbaro.1 said:
I think this is probably the biggest misread of one of my messages I've ever seen.
When in the message did you ever see me mention "tier 0," "eternalism," etc.?
All I said was, "No, the time statement doesn't imply that you have to be higher-dimensional to see it as an illusion.(Cuz that Is what novas Is implying)
You also missed the whole point about the difference between temporal and atemporal angles. Do you think I'm just going around saying this applies to X without justifying it? I justified this statement by introducing the difference between the two aforementioned angles and how the passage refers to temporal ones to make the statement, "It applies to all realms beyond temporal change."

At this point was Better for you if you didnt answer.
It's Just an endless arguing, like I said it's Better if we wait the mods.(Even tho prolly they Will never arrive)



Anyway good night fellas
Click to expand...

Gn.
 
When is anyone going to reach the conclusion that accurately trying to scale the Cthulhu Mythos, (or the Yog-Sothery, I should say), is a fruitless effort.
 
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