Otto Suwen VS The Deep (Re: Zero VS The Boys) (3-2-0)

[Phoenks]

If he jumps in they can target his gills and there are literally trillions of them lol, obviously he is worried

But I mean the way that shark acted, it seemed like the shark was confident it could 1v1 him bruh

Regardless, Otto with animals definitely has a shot of taking down the Deep. Even if he does have an AP disadvantage it doesn't actually mean he is incapable of hurting the Deep. It just takes more effort. Also, the Deep does have weak spots like the gills you mentioned. Otto could maybe figure that out as well.

Just a matter of if he can really assemble a good team in the Amazon before Deep just kills him some way or another.

 

[Crimsonobu]

He never had to do it, but if his life is on the line and he is actually near water for once then why not? Reason why he is "useless" in the show is because you can counter him entirely by not being close to water

A quick Google search would show you that 15 to 20% of the amazon rainforest is water. Otto could just hide in the 80% and literally never encounter the deep in his prime conditions whereas Otto can reach the Deep from land.

Deep can do the same, he also has sexual relations with a lot of them. Can Otto do that?? Huh??

I watched up to season 3 so I didn't know. Using sexual relations as a metric of measurement is a big ? That I'm just baffled by

This is only after the spill, thats not what we are using.

What? I meant fish speaking to other fish and spreading the news. Which happened in canon.

Oh that makes sense but I don't understand why that's a factor here as the setting takes place in amazon rainforest so I don't know if we consider what happens beyond?

Furthermore Otto overran his whole city with insects as a child which he did by accidents and another Google search shows the lower estimate of insects are up to trillions in the amazon rainforest.

This guy the insect man fr fr

 

[MasterOwOgay]

What the **** am I even reading about Deep calling in billions of fish? That argument is so absurd I genuinely don’t even know what to say to it.

The Amazon is primarily a forest ecosystem with an insect population massively outnumbering basically every other form of wildlife, fish included. And unlike Deep, Otto has consistently shown actual competence when it comes to utilizing animals in combat situations. “Seducing animals” is not a combat feat or a valid metric, by the way, and I will come after anyone trying to argue otherwise.

Also, how did people completely ignore the fact that Otto could set up Al Dona over time while simultaneously dropping boulders? That setup wouldn’t even take particularly long considering Otto managed to perform that in under 2 days.

At the end of the day, Otto is just flat-out more effective at using animals, and his intelligence gives him a very realistic path to figuring out Deep’s weak point. Garf and the Al Squad were far more dangerous opponents than this.

Easy vote for Eugene.

 

[ShionAH]

Re:Zero guys are jumping me, wtf where The Boys fans .

Anyways, we literally saw that in a few days the entire sea life on earth learned about the spill. So I don't see why saying Deep can call fish from all across the world given enough time is so absurd?? Literally replace the oil spill with Otto guys, not that hard.

Does anyone have a source we can use to estimate numbers? I don't really trust GPT but from what I can tell sea life > land life in overall numbers

 

[Phoenks]

I mean that Deep's relationship with animals and his ability to communicate with them seems a lot deeper than Otto's blessing. Because he has actually formed long lasting relationships with what seems like thousands of sea creatures. Every single sea creature we see in the series Deep already knows by name. It's kind of crazy lol. Meanwhile , Otto hasn't really shown as much in that category even if he has formed better plans using animals.

And the thing with Otto is that he has to keep on the run against an opponent who is multiple times faster and stronger than he is. On top of that fact that water is pretty much off limits to Otto. Because if he steps in the water he'll probably just get torn apart by piranhas or something cause deep told them to kill him.

It's not really worth comparing the in verse setting to a fight like this. In the story, Otto had days of preparation time for Garf in the forest. And there are certain PIS situations that could be in the narrative that don't exist in a straight up fight on equal footing on vsbw.

Also, Deep could likely avoid getting bugged by jumping in a body of water actually. Thinking about it, Deep is pretty much invincible in the fight when he is in the water.

 

[ShionAH]

The Amazon is primarily a forest ecosystem with an insect population massively outnumbering basically every other form of wildlife, fish included

Straight up wrong, entire earth has less land life than sea life. And only one of them has the means to call upon all of them.

Like @Phoenks mentioned nothing stops Deep from dipping in the water, where he is basically completely guarded at all times and all sides

 

[Crimsonobu]

Re:Zero guys are jumping me, wtf where The Boys fans .

Anyways, we literally saw that in a few days the entire sea life on earth learned about the spill. So I don't see why saying Deep can call fish from all across the world given enough time is so absurd?? Literally replace the oil spill with Otto guys, not that hard.

Does anyone have a source we can use? I don't really trust GPT

Wait why are you using GPT , we could have talked about it. I just used the size of the amazon river from the Wikipedia which puts the lowest at 4000 miles

Amazon River - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

While debate as to whether the Amazon or the Nile is the world's longest river has gone on for many years, the historic consensus of geographic authorities has been to regard the Amazon as the second longest river in the world, with the Nile being the longest. However, the Amazon has been reported as being anywhere between 6,275 km (3,899 mi) and 6,992 km (4,345 mi) long.[6] It is often said to be "at least" 6,400 km (4,000 mi) long.[5]

Of course there are smaller bodies of river and lake across the amazon rainforest but those aren't sourced so this is what I used. So the minimum for amazon nile is 4000 miles

And the rainforest is 2.2 million square

Amazon rainforest - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's possible to obtain a conservative estimate that the amazon nile is less than 2% of the rainforest water. So it's easier to see who's dominating in environmental advantage.

Earlier I said 10 to 15 which is wrong. It's because I searched up how much water I.e vegetation, soil, and etc is in it and not large bodies of water which is what's needed.

 

[Crimsonobu]

Straight up wrong, entire earth has less land life than sea life. And only one of them has the means to call upon all of them.

Like @Phoenks mentioned nothing stops Deep from dipping in the water, where he is basically completely guarded at all times and all sides

This is true but it leaves out technical information. Not all sea life are mobile organism i.e zooppankton, larvae and etc which aren't doing anything for combat. But insects are the most numerous smallest mobile creatures even in comparison to fishes, sharks, and etc and not by a small amount. It is quite significant.

 

[ShionAH]

Wait why are you using GPT

"I don't trust GPT"

"Why are you using GPT"

Anyways, I don't understand your point? It doesn't matter if theres more land than sea here because Deep has a way wider range compared to Otto and I believe sea life is actually is more than land life giving Deep the number advantage. Additionally even the smallest sea life can help if they just swarm whatever enters the ocean to attack Deep

It is quite significant.

I don't really think so because most of insects are too slow, small to do much especially when Deep cannot be pierced by any of their bites or claws. Meanwhile Deep can statistically amplify all of sea life and bring out giant octopuses, whales or more to crash into land and attack Otto if he's close or swim around to look for him. He can also dip in the water where the bugs cannot reach him at all.

 

[Crimsonobu]

I mean that Deep's relationship with animals and his ability to communicate with them seems a lot deeper than Otto's blessing. Because he has actually formed long lasting relationships with what seems like thousands of sea creatures. Every single sea creature we see in the series Deep already knows by name. It's kind of crazy lol. Meanwhile , Otto hasn't really shown as much in that category even if he has formed better plans using animals.

And the thing with Otto is that he has to keep on the run against an opponent who is multiple times faster and stronger than he is. On top of that fact that water is pretty much off limits to Otto. Because if he steps in the water he'll probably just get torn apart by piranhas or something cause deep told them to kill him.

It's not really worth comparing the in verse setting to a fight like this. In the story, Otto had days of preparation time for Garf in the forest. And there are certain PIS situations that could be in the narrative that don't exist in a straight up fight on equal footing on vsbw.

Also, Deep could likely avoid getting bugged by jumping in a body of water actually. Thinking about it, Deep is pretty much invincible in the fight when he is in the water.

Agree with everything but the deeper one? Otto is able to get animals to kill themselves for his goal and they just meet him in the same day and are endangering their life for him. In comparison the Deep is using sea creatures who know him already and before the spill they had a good opinion on him. That's more impressive as convincing a stranger to endanger their life for your benefit to me.

He doesn't have to keep on the run constantly. It's not like aquatic animals can leave the forest and when you consider just how big the land size he has is then he's able to just play guerilla ware.

Otto poisoned the bodies of water in the except I posted above when fighting Alderbusters which caused the Alderbusters to have to make water via magic. He has ways of causing the Deep to leave since I'm not sure if he could survive poisonous water.

 

[ShionAH]

You clearly don't know the Deep in depth (haha funny pun) and admitted you didn't watch past Season 3, so why are you making baseless assumptions? Deep sent that Eel on a suicide mission, so they both have similar control feats but with Deep having more emotional and deeper bonds unlike Otto.

 

[Crimsonobu]

"I don't trust GPT"

"Why are you using GPT"

Anyways, I don't understand your point? It doesn't matter if theres more land than sea here because Deep has a way wider range compared to Otto and I believe sea life is actually is more than land life giving Deep the number advantage. Additionally even the smallest sea life can help if they just swarm whatever enters the ocean to attack Deep

I don't really think so because most of insects are too slow, small to do much especially when Deep cannot be pierced by any of their bites or claws. Meanwhile Deep can statistically amplify all of sea life and bring out giant octopuses, whales or more to crash into land and attack Otto if he's close or swim around to look for him. He can also dip in the water where the bugs cannot reach him at all.

"Wider range" and has 2.2 million square territories advantage as well as all the land animals and insects.

Also yeah most insects are slow however if there are trillions of them after your ass then they are just going in your body Idk what to say, but Otto is not going to be near the Deep this was already established from the excepts I posted above. It's arguable if the Deep ever finds Otto because of how big the rainforest even is.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

You clearly don't know the Deep in depth (haha funny pun) and admitted you didn't watch past Season 3, so why are you making baseless assumptions? Deep sent that Eel on a suicide mission, so they both have similar control feats but with Deep having more emotional and deeper bonds unlike Otto.

I did watch the show, and i can also tell you that you dont need to watch it to use logical reasoning to get to the same exact conclusion.

He has to create deep bonds with animals to get them to commit suicide for him meanwhile otto can do so in a single interaction, his SI is clearly way better here.

 

[Crimsonobu]

You clearly don't know the Deep in depth (haha funny pun) and admitted you didn't watch past Season 3, so why are you making baseless assumptions? Deep sent that Eel on a suicide mission, so they both have similar control feats but with Deep having more emotional and deeper bonds unlike Otto.

I acknowledged the shark clip you sent earlier and I'm saying it's more impressive for a stranger to convince you to die for his goal than someone well known? Also the emotional and deeper bonds isn't necessarily as Important in a fight.

 

[Epiccheev]

Also the emotional and deeper bonds isn't necessarily as Important in a fight.

Fr, this aint Bowser vs Eggman

 

[Crimsonobu]

You clearly don't know the Deep in depth (haha funny pun) and admitted you didn't watch past Season 3, so why are you making baseless assumptions? Deep sent that Eel on a suicide mission, so they both have similar control feats but with Deep having more emotional and deeper bonds unlike Otto.

My humor is broken I actually laughed

 

[ShionAH]

He has to create deep bonds with animals to get them to commit suicide for him

Alright then. Give me evidence for this. Literally when has this been a condition, I watched the show and I don't remember it. Go ahead, tell me instead of him rather than spam liking every single comment of the dude.

I'm saying it's more impressive for a stranger to convince you to die for his goal than someone well known?

Again, you are right but thats not relevant. From what we have, both can convince animals to commit suicide attacks for them. We have no reason to believe nor do we have any evidence the Deep needs to know them in person for it to be accepted.

Also the emotional and deeper bonds isn't necessarily as Important in a fight.

Its pretty important if both of them are trying to influence people to help them

My humor is broken I actually laughed

Your humor is epic*

 

[Crimsonobu]

These are examples of what I'm saying the deep will face

https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/61ac79582e2d.png

https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/f750b3a876f2.png

And the only reason no one got hurt here is because Otto didn't want to hurt anybody. By the way he swarmed the city with bugs by saying one sentence.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Alright then. Give me evidence for this. Literally when has this been a condition, I watched the show and I don't remember it. Go ahead, tell me instead of him rather than spam liking every single comment of the dude.

the burden of proof is on you to prove it not being the case here

Again, you are right but thats not relevant. From what we have, both can convince animals to commit suicide attacks for them. We have no reason to believe nor do we have any evidence the Deep needs to know them in person for it to be accepted.

burden of proof is on you

Its pretty important if both of them are trying to influence people to help them

its a limitation for The Deep here since it implies its required for him to influence animals at all

 

[ShionAH]

Its like my words aren't reaching that side, whatever I have said enough. Deep has an insane AP and Durability advantage, has insanely big numbers advantage, can simply get in the water and drag the fight out for more support if Otto runs and tries to plan something, has stronger animals at his side like whales and whatever that kraken thing was in Ep8

the burden of proof is on you to prove it not being the case here

burden of proof is on you

Not really, you are the one trying to add an additional weakness that was never implied. I am not trying to add anything extra, I am going off by what we see. Which is that he can send sea life to fight to the death, you are saying he needs emotional bonds with them to do any of that. By your logic Otto also needs to have a bond to do that since all he does is talk not control them like the Deep, but we both know thats not true and that both are just charismatic enough to make animals do those for them.

Unfollowing, good matchup though @Phoenks

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

 

[God_of_perversion]

Otto destroys,what kind of matchup is this

 

[Phoenks]

Otto destroys,what kind of matchup is this

It's very close actually

 

[Thunderman101]

honeybuns

 

[Phoenks]

Bump

 

[Phoenks]

BUMP