Otto Suwen VS The Deep (Re: Zero VS The Boys) (3-2-0)

[Phoenks]

This matchup is just so, so, ******* funny to me... I can't even think about it without laughing.

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Otto Suwen (Re: Zero) VS The Deep (The Boys)​

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Conditions:

• 9-A The Deep is used. Pre-Season 5, so that he still has a good standing with sea creatures.
• Otto's Magic Stones are restricted.
• The battle takes place in the Amazon Rainforest, where there are plenty of animals for them both to take advantage of.

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Battle Location:

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The Deep has a 8x AP advantage and ~2x combat speed advantage. However, Otto has a really big reaction speed advantage.

Who would win?

Otto: 3 (@Crimsonobu, @SatellaTheWoE, @MasterOwOgay, )
The Deep: 2 (@Bruhtelho, @ShionAH )

 

[Zabazab]

No one is outperforming Otto in the marketplace of ideas...

Otto’s Divine Protection of the Soul of Language had proven useful in a diverse variety of scenarios and applications, but that spoke less to the efficacy of the Divine Protection than to Otto’s competency in utilizing it.

The Divine Protection of the Soul of Language merely allowed him to communicate with any living creature, nothing more; whether he could actually secure their cooperation was entirely dependent on the fruits of Otto’s own talents for negotiation and coordination.

Until now, they all had relied entirely upon Otto’s personal talent in that aspect.

 

[Phoenks]

The deep has the same thing but only with sea animals instead of all living things. He is best friends with like every being in the ocean for some reason, lol. He has been able to get mahy creatures to risk their lives for him or even outright sacrifice themselves. And has also seduced multiple creatures into having relationships with him, sexually or otherwise.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

right so apparently otto can drop boulders on people (zodda bugs need to be patched)

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I wanna point out that uh, Otto's reaction and perception speed is thousands of times greater than Deep's. The King of The Ocean isn't hitting bro

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I wanna point out that uh, Otto's reaction and perception speed is thousands of times greater than Deep's. The King of The Ocean isn't hitting bro

To put into perspective, Otto's perception and reactions are 1603896x faster than their combat speed. At MHS+ speeds, one sees the world as completely still. Subaru was able to perceive a Sub Rel character attack in slow motion and Otto is stronger/faster than him. What genuinely is Deep supposed to do here

 

[Phoenks]

To put into perspective, Otto's perception and reactions are 1603896x faster than their combat speed. At MHS+ speeds, one sees the world as completely still. Subaru was able to perceive a Sub Rel character attack in slow motion and Otto is stronger/faster than him. What genuinely is Deep supposed to do here

Perceiving an attack in slow motion does not mean you are able to dodge it. Difference between reactions/perception and combat speed. If they are in close combat, the Deep could still land a hit on him. It would just be difficult..

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Perceiving an attack in slow motion does not mean you are able to dodge it. Difference between reactions/perception and combat speed. If they are in close combat, the Deep could still land a hit on him. It would just be difficult..

Highkey, we are sleeping on Otto's combat skills, he would consistently beat arc 5+ Subaru in cqc. The deep doesn't really have any feats that are comparable

 

[Phoenks]

Highkey, we are sleeping on Otto's combat skills, he would consistently beat arc 5+ Subaru in cqc. The deep doesn't really have any feats that are comparable

Bro Subaru cqc is ass.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Perceiving an attack in slow motion does not mean you are able to dodge it. Difference between reactions/perception and combat speed. If they are in close combat, the Deep could still land a hit on him. It would just be difficult..

You don't understand. Every movement Deep makes will be the equivalent of a watching a snail cross the pacific ocean through a High Speed Camera. And this point is a hilarious point. Otto doesn't have Sub Relativistic Perception only, he has Sub Relativistic Perception AND Reaction speed. He reacts just as fast as he sees the world. There's no way you thought through the semantics of thinking a person who sees the world at Sub Light speeds can be hit by a athletic human level foe. This was clearly thought through

 

[Phoenks]

You don't understand. Every movement Deep makes will be the equivalent of a watching a snail cross the pacific ocean through a High Speed Camera. And this point is a hilarious point. Otto doesn't have Sub Relativistic Perception only, he has Sub Relativistic Perception AND Reaction speed. He reacts just as fast as he sees the world. There's no way you thought through the semantics of thinking a person who sees the world at Sub Light speeds can be hit by a athletic human level foe. This was clearly thought this way

Reactions only apply to short burst movements, not consistent ones requires for dodging multiple attacks in a row. So, in a cqc situation, he's not going to be able to just dodge everything. It'll just make it extremely hard for the Deep to hit him.

But that evens out, because if the Deep hits him, it comes with an 8x AP advantage.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Bro Subaru cqc is ass.

its better than whatever the deep has


On that note, how is The Deep dealing with Otto running away, baiting him into traps, and then getting jumped by random animals like THE ZODDA BUGS (I’m sorry)


Anyways, Otto would very likely figure out that The Deep can communicate with animals too, but only aquatic ones, which gives him plenty of room to work around it and form a counter-strategy. I can absolutely see Otto outsmarting him here, especially considering he already handled Garfiel, who is thousands of times stronger and faster than the Deep.

I will wait for a bit but i am heavily leaning towards brotto rn

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Reactions only apply to short burst movements, not consistent ones requires for dodging multiple attacks in a row. So, in a cqc situation, he's not going to be able to just dodge everything. It'll just make it extremely hard for the Deep to hit him.

My guy, Otto can make short burst movements 1.6 Million times faster than Deep can make a move a finger. By the time Deep raises his hand, over 11.8 Nanoseconds have yet to pass. Deep will be seen as stationary, and so will the world and all the Superhuman animals Deep can call upon. This match is so disingenuous, you actually are gonna sit here and believe and tell me Otto can't possibly react to attacks slower than bullets and when he can perceive information and make short burst movements faster than the speed of lighting.

 

[Phoenks]

On that note, how is The Deep dealing with Otto running away, baiting him into traps, and then getting jumped by random animals like THE ZODDA BUGS (I’m sorry)

Tbh I am pretty sure he can just talk to the sea creatures nearby and they would tell him about the traps

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Tbh I am pretty sure he can just talk to the sea creatures nearby and they would tell him about the traps

idk about fiction but irl, land and water animals cant communicate with each other

They can see the traps sure, but then Otto would figure out his ability and how its just his but worse

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

The reaction/perception difference is between Athletic Human level (7.7 m/s) & Sub Relativistic (0.0412c) btw. Again, the World literally appears Stationary at MHS+ speeds

 

[Phoenks]

My guy, Otto can make short burst movements 1.6 Million times faster than Deep can make a move a finger. By the time Deep raises his hand, over 11.8 Nanoseconds have yet to pass. Deep will be seen as stationary, and so will the world and all the Superhuman animals Deep can call upon. This match is so disingenuous, you actually are gonna sit here and believe and tell me Otto can't possibly react to attacks slower than bullets and when he can perceive information and make short burst movements faster than the speed of lighting.

Btw we've seen Otto/Subaru get into fights with normal humans before and they were able to be hit/interacted with.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Btw we've seen Otto/Subaru get into fights with normal humans before and they were able to be hit/interacted with.

Yeah then those are outliers. You made this match knowing and evidently so on Otto's profile that his reactions is a million times faster than his combat speed. Im telling you why the match would be a stomp that way

 

[Phoenks]

Yeah then those are outliers. You made this match knowing and evidently so on Otto's profile that his reactions is a million times faster than his combat speed. Im telling you why the match would be a stomp that way

And I'm telling you that it's not based on the limits of reactions/perceptions and what has actually been shown in the verse itself. And no, they aren't outliers lmao. Subaru is consistently portrayed as being around average human level in Re Zero, even if he would be stronger than that on Earth. And his fights with human-like speed characters have never had him super duper blitz everyone like what you're implying he could do lol.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

And I'm telling you that it's not based on the limits of reactions/perceptions and what has actually been shown in the verse itself. And no, they aren't outliers lmao. Subaru is consistently portrayed as being around average human level in Re Zero, even if he would be stronger than that on Earth. And his fights with human-like speed characters have never had him super duper blitz everyone like what you're implying he could do lol.

My guy, Otto can make short burst movements 1.6 Million times faster than Deep can make a move a finger. By the time Deep raises his hand, over 11.8 Nanoseconds have yet to pass. Deep will be seen as stationary, and so will the world and all the Superhuman animals Deep can call upon. This match is so disingenuous, you actually are gonna sit here and believe and tell me Otto can't possibly react to attacks slower than bullets and when he can perceive information and make short burst movements faster than the speed of lighting.

Im just gonna requote this. It seems you really don't understand why the literal stats on the page make the match invalid.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Everything Otto does is a million times faster lmaoo

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

And I'm telling you that it's not based on the limits of reactions/perceptions and what has actually been shown in the verse itself. And no, they aren't outliers lmao. Subaru is consistently portrayed as being around average human level in Re Zero, even if he would be stronger than that on Earth. And his fights with human-like speed characters have never had him super duper blitz everyone like what you're implying he could do lol.

Since he is specifically said to be normal human, wouldn't other humans also scale to his feats?

Besides, the only "normal" humans he has fought has been the 3 thugs, everybody else has had something on their end that gave them an inherent advantage over Subaru. I would say him being able to 3v1 them is a pretty good feat for his combat skill too since unlike him, they should have had some time to get used to adrenaline-based flow method usage too and we even see Gaston using flow method in under a year after that

 

[Phoenks]

Bros out here talking like Subaru is a speedster

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Bros out here talking like Subaru is a speedster

Son What do you think looking through the eyes and having the thinking speed of a Sub Relativistic character is like. This is Vs Battle Wiki where Batman moves faster than Supersonic cones and Mach 1 fighter jets

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Son What do you think looking through the eyes and having the thinking speed of a Sub Relativistic character is like. This is Vs Battle Wiki where Batman moves faster than Supersonic cones and Mach 1 fighter jets

Not even vs battle wiki, just fiction.

 

[Phoenks]

Otto Suwen can't move that fast. Reactions do not apply to how quick your are when it comes to boxing. In close quarters combat, he is limited to his combat speed.

 

[Zabazab]

Otto is not throwing hands unless cornered he's gonna use magic to try and lose The Deep and then do some bull like this:

Otto: [Overheating, that sounds quite nice. Even if my head splits open, I will not stop, I…]

Blood still trickled from his nose as Otto grumbled thus under the gathering whir of wings― Zodda bugs, at whom he snapped his fingers, instructing them to their next course of action in the continuation of their surveillance.

The Zodda bugs possessed an amiable disposition with a faint sense of individual awareness. They shared directives as one being, and to persuade but a single insect would demonstrate results equivalent to persuading the entire swarm. For their service, they demanded but a single reward: a peaceful life.

By virtue of his position as the Internal Affairs Minister, Otto had intended to secure their compensation. In return, the swarm must pledge obedience unto tasks of mortal peril whilst performing reckless endeavors that surpassed human capability.

―They had clung to the fleeing Dragon to pinpoint its rendezvous point, mobilized swarms of a hundred thousand strong to drop boulders upon their foes, gathered every message left by the captive; such deeds they wrought.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Otto Suwen can't move that fast. Reactions do not apply to how quick your are when it comes to boxing. In close quarters combat, he is limited to his combat speed.

Reaction speed is reacting to an attack that you don't know is going to happen, or at a very close range. The reaction speed of a character also tends to be higher than their movement speed.

Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed.

I can't believe I have to source or discuss this even though its literally ruled on the site. Otto isn't 'actively moving' at Sub Relativtstic, he processes information, sees through world and everything around him, and reacts, in short burst movements at the speed of 1 million times faster than Deep. This means

Reaction speed is defined as a single movement in a defined timeframe, which a character has been shown capable of. A series of movements in similar timeframes makes this combat speed, so this term should only be applied for a single, quick movement

Every thought and singular movement that Otto makes will attempt after accessing what Deep is going to do, will blitz at 1,603,896x Deep's speed...
To put that into perspective, the difference between a average human reaction and a Subsonic reaction is 6x... and Subsonic is the blitz lower end for moving faster than the eye... the combat speed here is 7.7 m/s... Otto reacts and sees Deep's movements actions and dumb tactics at 12,350,000 m/s... you're not gonna sit here and tell me a guy who works out everyday at the gym and runs can hit someone who reacts faster than lightning can strike... Phoenix respectfully. Please stop.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Lets put it this way, How is 7.7 m/s Deep with 8x the striking strength going to hit a kid that can react to attacks faster than the fastest man-made objects.

 

[Huesito88]

Wait if the gap between the Deep and Otto is 8 times how is Otto hurting him? Or is the Wincon trapping the Deep in a boulder?

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Wait if the gap between the Deep and Otto is 8 times how is Otto hurting him? Or is the Wincon trapping the Deep in a boulder?

There's literally nothing Deep can do. No animal alive is touching someone who reacts at Sub Light speeds. If Otto traps him, Deep will not and cannot react. Deep himself cannot hit Otto physically either. Otto can control animals himself

 

[Phoenks]

You posted my point in your post

A series of movements in similar timeframes makes this combat speed, so this term should only be applied for a single, quick movement

CQC relies on combat speed, not reaction speed.

Can we move on?

 

[Huesito88]

There's literally nothing Deep can do. No animal alive is touching someone who reacts at Sub Light speeds. If Otto traps him, Deep will not and cannot react. Deep himself cannot hit Otto physically either. Otto can control animals himself

Ok, even if that is true again

"how is Otto hurting him? Or is the Wincon trapping the Deep in a boulder?"

 

[Zabazab]

Yeah Otto can only avoid one punch at best, multistrikes are combat speed.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

You posted my point in your post



CQC relies on combat speed, not reaction speed.

Can we move on?

This is the worst bottom tier response oat. My guy, how can you react to something you can't see (Perception), and how can you react without reaction speed it doesn't help that OTTO'S speed statistics are separate. The point is, a single short burst movement Otto makes is still faster than Deep by a million times. Your point was not proven

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Yeah Otto can only avoid one punch at best, multistrikes are combat speed.

What are you talking about, how do you hit something that reacts 1 million times faster than you

 

[Phoenks]

The point is that reaction speed only allows a short burst movement. Everything after that relies on combat speed. So in a close combat scenario, he would need to rely on his combat speed to fight the Deep.

I think you have a misunderstanding of the speed ratings.

 

[Bruhtelho]

it comes down to if Deep can get Otto into the water and take advantage of the 3,000 species of fish that reside in those waters, there is no reacting to something you can't even see coming since that water is incredibly hard to see through or well getting your body pierced by apex predators you can't see.

anything outside the water then Deep has to worry about someone with superior overall skill, intelligence, reactions, and versatility. can Otto actually control animal life or just communicate with them? the profile phrases it as just communication just asking before i look into it more deeply.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

The point is that reaction speed only allows a short burst movement. Everything after that relies on combat speed. So in a close combat scenario, he would need to rely on his combat speed to fight the Deep.

I think you have a misunderstanding of the speed ratings.

Brother, You have yet to answer this. How do you hit something that moves 12,350,000 m/s in short burst when you punch at 7.7 m/s

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

it comes down to if Deep can get Otto into the water and take advantage of the 3,000 species of fish that reside in those waters, there is no reacting to something you can't even see coming since that water is incredibly hard to see through or well getting your body pierced by apex predators you can't see.

anything outside the water then Deep has to worry about someone with superior overall skill, intelligence, reactions, and versatility. can Otto actually control animal life or just communicate with them? the profile phrases it as just communication just asking before i look into it more deeply.

Yeah how is he going to get Otto in the water, he literally cannot touch him