Dai-Kaio dimensions Low-2 C tier

[Mgebrat282]

His dimension was stated to be the universe, when Goku and Paikuhan travelled through it. Also we know that it contains stars and planets, they are real and have big size. It was called another dimension several times(page 66) and said to have more than 2 or even 3 space dimensions. All of these would qualify for it to be Low 2-C
Agree: @LuffyRuffy46307
Disagree:

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Who would that scale to? What profiles are you trying to change? Maybe you should have talked about this with some people first to straighten all that out

Edit: also the dimensions having a sealing kinda means it's finite. And in the race segment we saw the planets were mostly small, if anything it seems like a miniature model of the universe?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Who would that scale to? What profiles are you trying to change? Maybe you should have talked about this with some people first to straighten all that out

Edit: also the dimensions having a sealing kinda means it's finite. And in the race segment we saw the planets were mostly small, if anything it seems like a miniature model of the universe?

Just a cosmology update, really. The Toei universe now scales to four universes with the dimension of the Grand Kai Realm, so characters capable of destroying the macrocosm, such as Goku, Buu, and others from Toei, would scale to four universal-sized space-time continuums.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The translation for "universe" is indeed correct; I obtained it through an official translation from the Wiki itself, so I agree OP.

Super Saiyan Goku and the now lightened Pycon, who had discarded his heavy gi, continued to fight evenly. The battlefield expanded to outer space, and neither side gave an inch as they exchanged powerful attacks all the way to the edge of the universe. Finally, Goku’s Kamehameha captured Pycon and ended the battle! However, due to the Great King’s ruling, both were disqualified for stepping out of the ring... After regenerating from his core, Cell returned to Earth, powered up, and defeated Trunks with a single blow. Consumed by the death of his beloved son, Vegeta rushed at Cell but was easily brushed aside. Gohan rescued the mortally wounded Vegeta, but suffered a wound to his left arm... Seeing this, Cell wasted no time and ruthlessly attacked!

 

[Reiner04]

It seems to make sense to me but i am not knowledgable on DB. I will ping supporters and staffs to see what they think before giving concrete vote.

@DarkDragonMedeus @ProfectusInfinity

 

[Mgebrat282]

Just a cosmology update, really. The Toei universe now scales to four universes with the dimension of the Grand Kai Realm, so characters capable of destroying the macrocosm, such as Goku, Buu, and others from Toei, would scale to four universal-sized space-time continuums.

And for manga as the worldview is shared

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Dose the dimension having a definable top you can jump off of have any baring on this?

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

His dimension was stated to be the universe, when Goku and Paikuhan travelled through it. Also we know that it contains stars and planets, they are real and have big size.

This was evaluated in the past, and "universe" in this context likely means "outer space."

It was called another dimension several times(page 66) and said to have more than 2 or even 3 space dimensions. All of these would qualify for it to be Low 2-C

Extra-dimensional just vaguely means that something originates outside the standard universe, and it's only ever supporting evidence at best for tier 2 and above.

Nothing too concrete, I'll have to disagree.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I just looks like they were fighting in "The Universe" as opposed to creating another dimension. And iirc, Grand Kai's planet is located within the Other World and is physically located right above the planet Heaven. It's something we treat as an infinite speed feat when they traveled to the "Dimensional edge" of an infinite sized universe, but I do not think this is something that would update any current cosmology size or any like Low 2-C creation feats.

 

[Omegabronic]

His dimension was stated to be the universe,

Machine translations are not reliable, it was translated in the earlier thread about this topic by @Executor_N0 and by @Nullflowerblush

Of course, "宇宙" (Uchu) means "universe", but it's also very often also used just with the meaning of space/outer space instead of meaning the entirety of a universe or something like that. In fact, I'm almost sure that is machine translation and you can notice that because it says first "outer space" and then "universe" for the same kanji.
If one would specify outer space, in general, they could use "宇宙空間" (Uchū kūkan), but even that can get into the problem of general meaning because it literally means "space of the universe", so it could also be used to describe all of the universe's space other than the astronomical use of merely "outer space". This just goes on to show how important context is (In fact, although Uchū by definition means all of time and space, most Japanese general astronomers would say that they just never use it to include time anymore, and is just used to describe generic outer space).
In that text, it could be something to discuss if it's called "宇宙" (Uchu) because they went to a generic outer space with stars and not something to say it's a literal universe-sized construct. (Japanese really be fun to discuss if "universe" really means universe).

For example, 宇宙 has three different meanings; "universe", "cosmos", and "outer space", all of which are used in varying measures depending entirely on text; like how 星 can mean "star" or "planet" (Lord Boros, anybody?). In the context of the episode summary, "universe" is completely and utterly erroneous. Again, not a single line of dialogue is ever spared to mention the universe or compare the Anomalous Space to the universe, for that matter. Previous context in the text, that being "The battle spreads to outer space", lends itself to 宇宙 referring to "outer space", rather than "universe". Guess what kanji is machine translated into "outer space" and what kanji is translated into "universe".
The answer is 宇宙. For the two of 'em.
How weird that the only two instances of 宇宙 are translated differently by the machine.
How weird that Japanese astronomers refer to 宇宙 as "a [representation] of the expanse of space", denouncing its relation to the dimension of time

Aka the original text says only "outer space" and does not specifies "universe" in any moment

when Goku and Paikuhan travelled through it. Also we know that it contains stars and planets, they are real and have big size.

this supports Multi-Solar System size true... doesn't prove universal size tho

It was called another dimension several times(page 66)

Being another dimension is obvious, that doesn't prove much of anything tho... the Room of Spirit and Time is equally another dimension even tho it is only Earth sized

and said to have more than 2 or even 3 space dimensions. All of these would qualify for it to be Low 2-C

Being 3 Dimensional is NOT Low 2-C, if you meant "3 to 4 dimensions" then that also wouldn't be Low 2-C without proving universal size first

Also also "Extradimensional" means:

extradimensional - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

1. (science fiction) Originating outside the known physical reality of the universe.

2. (science fiction) Coming from a world outside Einsteinian space-time.

So unless one can prove that in this context means "4 dimensional" that statement will mean very little to nothing for its dimensions


also it is a mistranslation anyway, as translated by both @Nullflowerblush and @Executor_N0

It's 異次元空間 (Ijigenkūkan) wich means "Different dimensional space" or "space of a different dimension", "Other-dimensional space", etc. Which basically is supposed to mean the space of a different dimension.

"an extra dimensional space in this context"?
異次元空間, or "different dimensional space", not a separate space-time, not an "extra-dimensional space".
For comparison, "extra-dimensional" is 超次元; "higher-dimensional" is 高次元.
異 is "different"; 高 is "higher"; 超 is "super"/"extra".

Aka it just means "space of a diferent dimension", it doesn't mean "Extra-Dimensional space" at all

For any staff reading this feel free to click on the replies i linked above the quotations if you want to read the replies themselves or the earlier thread

Disagree

 

[Mgebrat282]

Machine translations are not reliable, it was translated in the earlier thread about this topic by @Executor_N0 and by @Nullflowerblush


Aka the original text says only "outer space" and does not specifies "universe" in any moment

So, it says "all the way to the end of the "Uchu"(space or universe)", how can it be just outer space or space, when it talk about going to its end? Shouldn't it say "the edge of the universe" instead? Or by saying "space" or "outer space" meaning "universe" because they go to its end, as this space looks like universe with stars and planets

 

[Mgebrat282]

I just looks like they were fighting in "The Universe" as opposed to creating another dimension. And iirc, Grand Kai's planet is located within the Other World and is physically located right above the planet Heaven. It's something we treat as an infinite speed feat when they traveled to the "Dimensional edge" of an infinite sized universe, but I do not think this is something that would update any current cosmology size or any like Low 2-C creation feats.

Well, it's said about Dai-Kaio's dimension, which is inside his mansion. btw it would upscale macrocosmos cosmology(from 3 universes to 4) and will open an opportunity for a more major upgrade for the afterlife

 

[Mgebrat282]

This was evaluated in the past, and "universe" in this context likely means "outer space."

Uchu can mean many things, either universe or outer space. In the site it's said:"all the way to the edge of the universe". Do you want to me say it's more logicall to say "all the way to the edge of the outer space"? Well, even in that case it would mean universe as an outer space(as it can mean the same in this sintence and context)

Extra-dimensional just vaguely means that something originates outside the standard universe, and it's only ever supporting evidence at best for tier 2 and above.

Nothing too concrete, I'll have to disagree.

And I'm trying to say it's Low 2-c as it's another dimension and the universe...

 

[Omegabronic]

So, it says "all the way to the end of the "Uchu"(space or universe)", how can it be just outer space or space, when it talk about going to its end?

Because they are reaching the end of this particular Outer Space Area? I really don't get the confusion here, why wouldn't they be able to reach the end of a space they are in?

Shouldn't it say "the edge of the universe" instead?
Or by saying "space" or "outer space" meaning "universe" because they go to its end

No? Why would it need to? Why would reaching the end of a Space means said space is a universe? How is that the conclusion instead of "the outer space area is finite and has an end"?

as this space looks like universe with stars and planets

Not enough, we don't go by vibes, we go by what is shown or stated, at most that proves that it has a starry sky in it and that's it

Uchu can mean many things, either universe or outer space. In the site it's said:"all the way to the edge of the universe".

In the machine translation, not reliable, that equally translated the same kanji "Uchu" as simply outer space in the same phrase

 

[Mgebrat282]

Because they are reaching the end of this particular Outer Space Area? I really don't get the confusion here, why wouldn't they be able to reach the end of a space they are in?

Because outer space exist in the universe and if you reach the end of outer space you reach the end of the universe, meaning in this context they are synonyms?

No? Why would it need to? Why would reaching the end of a Space means said space is a universe? How is that the conclusion instead of "the outer space area is finite and has an end"?

Because it doesn't sound normal, saying "the edge of the universe" but "the edge of the outer space" and saying they are different, when in reality you mean the same thing is weird.

Not enough, we don't go by vibes, we go by what is shown or stated, at most that proves that it has a starry sky in it and that's it

Okay, then to prove its size I need to find the statement about the infinite size?

In the machine translation, not reliable, that equally translated the same kanji "Uchu" as simply outer space in the same phrase

Maybe because it understands the context? Firstly it says "The battlefield of battle expanded into the space" refferering to the moment when they flew to the space outside the arena, and then it says "exchanging special moves all the way to the edge of the universe" reffering to the moment when Goku and Paikuhan reached the edge of the dimension. If you use just "outer space" or "universe" for both, it would be a literary error and repetition of the same word and meaning, which it's not

 

[Nullflowerblush]

You think repetition is a "literary error"? "Expanded into outer space" naturally progresses towards "All the way to the edge of outer space". Act correctly.

 

[AguilaR202]

I don’t think there is enough visual evidence for it to be more than a 4-A space-time/ sub dimension

 

[Mgebrat282]

You think repetition is a "literary error"? "Expanded into outer space" naturally progresses towards "All the way to the edge of outer space". Act correctly.

"The battlefield of battle expanded into the outer space, and both sides refused to yield, exchanging special moves all the way to the edge of the outer space" Repeating of one word in the same meaning in the same sentence is a literary error(in most cases). And it sounds like it if we use only one meaning of "Uchu", but it has several meanings that's why it's used several times in this sentance.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

"The battlefield of battle expanded into the outer space, and both sides refused to yield, exchanging special moves all the way to the edge of the outer space" Repeating of one word in the same meaning in the same sentence is a literary error(in most cases). And it sounds like it if we use only one meaning of "Uchu", but it has several meanings that's why it's used several times in this sentance.

Using multiple meanings of a word dosen't fix that error.


And do you even know if Japanese follows that rule? This wasn't written in English

 

[Mgebrat282]

Using multiple meanings of a word dosen't fix that error.

If the word can be used in different meaning and was used several times for different usage, then it has different meanings in this sentance. It's just litarary logic and rules

And do you even know if Japanese follows that rule? This wasn't written in English

Such rules are followed by every language as it's not language rules but writting rules. For example, in Russia we have the same rules(I'm Russian), in Ukrain too(My grandpa taught me this language), the same with English too(I speak English as you see). So there is no way in this text the word "Uchu" was used in the same meaning twice in one sentance in different usage

 

[Mgebrat282]

This was evaluated in the past, and "universe" in this context likely means "outer space."

Extra-dimensional just vaguely means that something originates outside the standard universe, and it's only ever supporting evidence at best for tier 2 and above.

Nothing too concrete, I'll have to disagree.

From the translator on the wiki, it's a universe
Super Saiyan Goku and the now lightened Pycon, who had discarded his heavy gi, continued to fight evenly. The battlefield expanded to outer space, and neither side gave an inch as they exchanged powerful attacks all the way to the edge of the universe. Finally, Goku’s Kamehameha captured Pycon and ended the battle! However, due to the Great King’s ruling, both were disqualified for stepping out of the ring... After regenerating from his core, Cell returned to Earth, powered up, and defeated Trunks with a single blow. Consumed by the death of his beloved son, Vegeta rushed at Cell but was easily brushed aside. Gohan rescued the mortally wounded Vegeta, but suffered a wound to his left arm... Seeing this, Cell wasted no time and ruthlessly attacked!

 

[Mgebrat282]

Because they are reaching the end of this particular Outer Space Area? I really don't get the confusion here, why wouldn't they be able to reach the end of a space they are in?


No? Why would it need to? Why would reaching the end of a Space means said space is a universe? How is that the conclusion instead of "the outer space area is finite and has an end"?


Not enough, we don't go by vibes, we go by what is shown or stated, at most that proves that it has a starry sky in it and that's it


In the machine translation, not reliable, that equally translated the same kanji "Uchu" as simply outer space in the same phrase

From the translator on the wiki, it's a universe
Super Saiyan Goku and the now lightened Pycon, who had discarded his heavy gi, continued to fight evenly. The battlefield expanded to outer space, and neither side gave an inch as they exchanged powerful attacks all the way to the edge of the universe. Finally, Goku’s Kamehameha captured Pycon and ended the battle! However, due to the Great King’s ruling, both were disqualified for stepping out of the ring... After regenerating from his core, Cell returned to Earth, powered up, and defeated Trunks with a single blow. Consumed by the death of his beloved son, Vegeta rushed at Cell but was easily brushed aside. Gohan rescued the mortally wounded Vegeta, but suffered a wound to his left arm... Seeing this, Cell wasted no time and ruthlessly attacked!

 

[Mgebrat282]

This was evaluated in the past, and "universe" in this context likely means "outer space."

From the translator on the wiki, it's a universe
Super Saiyan Goku and the now lightened Pycon, who had discarded his heavy gi, continued to fight evenly. The battlefield expanded to outer space, and neither side gave an inch as they exchanged powerful attacks all the way to the edge of the universe. Finally, Goku’s Kamehameha captured Pycon and ended the battle! However, due to the Great King’s ruling, both were disqualified for stepping out of the ring... After regenerating from his core, Cell returned to Earth, powered up, and defeated Trunks with a single blow. Consumed by the death of his beloved son, Vegeta rushed at Cell but was easily brushed aside. Gohan rescued the mortally wounded Vegeta, but suffered a wound to his left arm... Seeing this, Cell wasted no time and ruthlessly attacked!

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Seriously, your thread is the exact same as Luffy's thread, and Luffy's thread with the exact same evidence was already veto'd.

 

[Mgebrat282]

Seriously, your thread is the exact same as Luffy's thread, and Luffy's thread with the exact same evidence was already veto'd.

Didn't know that. So, where am I wrong? I use real tranlsator's translation

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

I find myself agreeing with @Omegabronic here.

 

[Mgebrat282]

Bump

 

[SomebodyData]

SNIP

Finding myself agreeing with Omega here

 

[ItsMeat]

Yeah, agree with Omega, W debunk