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6-B Hax Merchant Reinhard Vs Cosmic Garou (Again)

Kachon123 said:
All this means is that after being portal'd away, the slash will continue to go after Garou. Unfortunately for Reinhard, it's in another dimension so it will never reach him no matter how far it travels due to his lack of interdimensional range.
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god-of-larp.gif

We did NOT read the ability
 
Kachon123 said:
Nice argument.
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Really man? Your argument literally revolves around completely failing to understand something as blatant as the ability literally saying word for word, bar for bar, that Reinhard's first attack on an opponent always lands. Please do not turn this into an endless circular debate of blatantly attempting to ignore abilities while asserting your own character can do things that they haven't been shown doing
 
Kachon123 said:
All this means is that after being portal'd away, the slash will continue to go after Garou. Unfortunately for Reinhard, it's in another dimension so it will never reach him no matter how far it travels due to his lack of interdimensional range.
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prove his portals can change the law of the world itself to teleport something away
Kachon123 said:
Is there a page for this? Why would it be above what he can copy?
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The very world will not allow Reinhard to die, thus it grants him Divine Protections so that he may return to life if he dies. The existence that grants him Divine Protections is the root of the world, the foundation of eternity, the source of all mana, and the will of the world itself, the Od Lagna— an unimaginably vast conceptual entity which forges the world's unshakeable laws, oversees the recycling of souls, and is referred to as a mechanism for keeping the world from breaking
Click to expand...
Divine Protections are considered a constraint of the world, a set rule by which the world operates
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Doggo said:
That's how Beatrice's BFR works and he resists that
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No.

What Reinhard resists is "magic", not the act of being teleported. That's not how the divine protections work. Do you think he's only being 20% teleported or something?

Reinhard has no "BFR" resistance that works against Garou's portals.

Garou cannot copy the blessings. Divine protections are way different in nature.

Reinhard almost stands no chance in stats. Not even considering the AP difference.

Within a very short time, Garou's stats will be already far above what Reinhard can handle. He'll just blitz him.

Reinhard's divine protections are not absolute and relies on his and his opponent's stats.

Like "Divine Protection of Initiative", that isn't some absolute rule that will 100% happen. Garou can teleport away and slash won't just cross over dimensions so that it can land because the divine protection says so.

Garou can easily escape from the slash unless Reinhard physically hits him with the sword rather than relying on range.

Garou could even outrun the slash itself rather than teleporting away thanks to his growth.

I didn't read everything and probably missed a lot of comments, sorry if some of these were talked about :d
 
Also, Can Reinhard even handle his radiation?

While Od Lagna can create a divine protection for this, is Reinhard aware of such thing? Divine protections doesn't just bestow upon him instantly when he's not aware of the phenomenon after all.

Even at worst, it'll definitely bring him down/slow him down etc at first, giving Garou several opportunities.
 
AlipheeseXIV said:
Idk how many times we're going to have to repeat this but...the guy instantly does this the moment the fight starts
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Garou can just open a portal and easily escape. He even has AD fast enough for him outspeed the slash itself here.

The range is also 10 meters, Garou's radiation is effective.
AlipheeseXIV said:
  • Divine Protection of Initiative: His first attack on an opponent always lands, and he can never fall victim to surprise attacks.
Click to expand...
Reinhard's divine protections are not absolute and relies on his and his opponent's stats.

Like "Divine Protection of Initiative", that isn't some absolute rule that will 100% happen. Garou can teleport away and slash won't just cross over dimensions so that it can land because the divine protection says so.

Garou can easily escape from the slash unless Reinhard physically hits him with the sword rather than relying on range.

Garou could even outrun the slash itself rather than teleporting away thanks to his growth.
Click to expand...
Divine protections like that rely on the capabilities of the user and opponent. Like Divine Protection of Arrow Evasion for example. (Also fully relying on NLF there. It won't cross over dimensions so it can hit, or simply gain MFTL speed to rival faster enemies' speed to hit them or anything.)
 
Analytical Prediction

Garou:
  • Can see multiple moves into the future against opponents with a blitz-worthy speed advantage.
  • Scales above characters who are far less skilled in OPM, such as Iaian, who is able to simultaneously track the movements of tens of thousands of attacks simultaneously, with his eyes closed, by just sensing murderous intent.
  • Analyzes factors about the opponent such as center of gravity, posture, and eye movement. Uses this information to simulate a number of different possible movements for his opponent until he has confirmation of the correct one.
  • Capable of anticipating and countering attacks "no matter how strong they are," and making them completely useless without hitting their mark.
Reinhard:
  • Has a "sixth sense" which perceives danger in advance.
  • Can predict an opponent's future attacks. Can predict invisible attacks.
  • Superior to Cecilius, who is constantly aware of everything in his surroundings, analyzing other's physical abilities, conduct, and sounds.
  • Analyzes factors about the opponents like the movements of their eyes, feeling their hostility, and reading how they breathe as they aim. Can also predict attacks through experience and intuition.
Conclusion:

Both Garou and Reinhard are pretty similar, but I think Garou edges out in terms of quantification because of a couple of things. Reinhard's feats don't have enough added context to match up exactly.

While they can both anticipate opponent movements, Garou goes a step further because he is at minimum able to calculate at least 3 "steps" into the future (Working off of this scan), even against characters who can speed blitz him. For Reinhard, without such further statements, he would be limited to just the "next move," rather than the "next next move," and "next next next move" like Garou is.

While they can both observe and keep track of surroundings, Garou has an explicit quantity of thousands of attacks attached to his level of anticipation, while Reinhard's observation is more vague.

The fact that Reinhard has predicted invisible things is very impressive, but also isn't very notable regarding the potency of the AP. Rather, it shows that his mechanism of predicting itself might be a bit superior to Garou's, since he can anticipate things with less information.

Overall, I give this point to Garou.



Instinctive Action

Garou:
  • Water Stream Fist is a technique that enables him to move autonomously. It is a part of his composited martial art.
  • Can fight while unconscious/asleep, which has allowed him to hold his own against stronger opponents like Darkshine and skilled opponents like Bomb & Bang. With Bang specifically being someone who also uses the Water Stream Fist and actively anticipates attacks.
Reinhard:
  • Has multiple BS Divine Protections can give him insight into attacks he's never seen before + the intuition to avoid or counter those he has seen before.
  • Capable of dodging rain on instinct. (Unquantifiable)
  • Superior to people who can dodge 30+ nearly-invisible attacks. (This is not a case of instinctive action. Wilhelm was not acting autonomously)
  • Fights without any delay between decision making and action.
  • Scales above a lot of really good instincts showcased in the Re; Zero verse.

Conclusion:

I was originally going to say that Reinhard wins here, but honestly I am not so sure anymore. Reinhard's best thing is the rain feat but it's not logically possible and lacks explanation so it can't really be used to compare their skills to each other.

Without that, he still does have that really cracked ability to just counter things he's seen before on instinct, and even invisible things, but as I've gone over again and again, this is going to be limited to the scope of what he has understood in his own verse. Which is why we are comparing skills in the first place.

Reinhard being able to predict invisible things is a relative feat to Garou fighting while he's literally unconscious. Garou being literally unconscious might even be superior as his conscious is not receiving any information whatsoever in that state, and he's able to maintain that state for an extended period of time. His body is just fighting by itself with how much combat experience he's burned into it.

I think this one is a toss-up.


Information Analysis
Garou:
  • As mentioned above, he can analyze a couple of factors about an opponent's line of fight, center of gravity, etc.
  • Can nigh-instantly replicate the techniques of an opponent.
Reinhard:
  • Scales above people who can instantly know the martial arts of those they fight against.
  • Can grasp an opponent's vulnerable points.
  • Can grasp a person's abilities at first glance.
  • Knows of any Divine Protections.
Reinhard should take this category, but it also doesn't really matter lol. If it's a fight of martial arts then they're naturally going to both end up knowing what the other is capable of anyways.

And the OP literally already gave them the information at the start that the opponent is a skilled martial artist.

So I don't really think it factors in much, especially because Analytical Prediction is the better capability, but Reinhard edges out here.


Technique Mimicry

Garou:
  • His signature ability. He's able to copy techniques he's seen at a glance and then merge them into his collective style of martial arts.
  • As of this key, he has absorbed and merged at least 11 martial arts that he's copied together into one.
  • He managed to merge Bang and Bomb's styles into one on his own, allowing him o use the "Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist," which is a technique that they, put together, could still barely pull off.
  • Mastered the Exploding Heart Release Fist while unconscious, which is a technique that he gained a grasp of just by reading about it in an ancient scripture.
  • He's able to use his composited martial art even while he's unconscious and similarly mimic techniques while he is unconscious.
  • His copies improve on the originals.
Reinhard:
  • More skilled than Marcos, who can absorb techniques into himself after experiencing them.
Conclusion:

I don't think it is surprising that Garou blows out Reinhard in this category, considering it is his main thing. Garou has copied multiple martial arts throughout the series and merged them together. Reinhard has no feats of merging techniques, only the presumed ability to copy them. He also has nothing on Garou doing things like this just by reading about them, or pulling them off in his sleep. And the martial arts that Garou copies are those than not even esteemed masters like Bang and Bomb can pull off at times. He EXCEEDS the capabilities of the people he steals the arts from.

Easy win for Garou in that category.


General Martial Arts

Garou:
  • Reached the epitome of martial arts in his verse, putting him above the likes of Bang & Bomb, who themselves have led prestigious dojos and have decades of experience in the arts.
  • He has stolen and combined multiple martial arts together during his time in the verse.
  • Many of his martial arts are more complicated than just punching and kicking, involving becoming one with the "flow," like the WSRSF and WICF. He also has things like air manipulation, deconstruction, and vibrations through some of his techniques.
  • Capable of instinctively hitting people's pressure points to incapacitate them.

Reinhard:
  • As the Sword Saint, his aptitude for the sword is increased to his natural limit. This puts him above everyone in the verse when it comes to swordsmanship, which is a very, very big scaling chain with plenty of masters who are better than mastery.
  • His level of talent is unreachable by masters like Wilhelm no matter how hard they train. Although someone especially gifted like Cecilus was able to reach just one step below Reinhard in 3 years of training during an IF story.
  • He knows like every weapon art ever because of his Divine Protections. It also makes him skilled with his hands.

Conclusion:

I'd give Reinhard the edge for his bigger scaling chain, however he is held back a lot in this match because most of his talents are reserved for swordsmenship, not hand to hand fighting.



So, the winners of my categories are:

Analytical Prediction: Garou
Instinctive Action: Toss-up
Information Analysis: Reinhard
Technique Mimicry: Garou
Martial Arts: Reinhard

While this looks like a draw on first glance, there are some things to consider:

1. Information Analysis is mostly useless for this fight as both will gain the information they need regardless.
2. Reinhard's martial arts are mostly geared towards swordsmenship and he lacks feats in hand to hand combat. It would be disingenuous for me to say he is an equivalent master when it comes to boxing.

With that in mind, I give the overall advantage to Garou. I believe he will be far more proficient at predicting Reinhard's movements and simply combine any useful technique that Reinhard uses in the fight into his own skills. From there it is only a matter of time before he puts Reinhard to sleep with some combination of pressure point strikes.

Now we also have to factor in that Garou gets faster and stronger the more he fights, to the point of blitzing characters he was previously relative to in... 1.3 milliseconds.

Even the Re: Zero supporters have admitted that Reinhard's instincts can fail against attacks too fast for him to physically react to. So, Reinhard may even lose more of his capacity to actually fend Garou off in a martial arts battle.

I am casting my vote for Garou.
Click to expand...
I vote Garou for the reasons presented by @Phoenks in the previous thread :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
MrTayman616 said:
Garou can just open a portal and easily escape. He even has AD fast enough for him outspeed the slash itself here.
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Am I missing something? I’m pretty sure you were just told that due to Reinhard’s protection his attack will always land. Garou is essentially screwed if he’s inflicted by EE, not to mention his RE or does his AD reach the extent of granting him gradual resistance to EE either. Even assuming he has the opportunity to use a portal to create distance would he not still be subject to erasure? It wouldn’t make a difference.

I could be wrong but since the divine protection allows for Reinhard to land a hit first isn’t this some law manipulation? Garou’s AD definitely doesn’t encompass law manipulation shenanigans. We need feats of such or statements. Even assuming it’s not law related I’m guessing it has some probability to do with it. Do we have a quantifiable value for Garou’s AD amp? How much faster would he get?
 
So like genuinely speaking...how does anybody beat Reinhard in his verse if he has homing AoE EE that he does on frame 1.
 
Gamin_Yoon23 said:
Am I missing something? I’m pretty sure you were just told that due to Reinhard’s protection his attack will always land. Garou is essentially screwed if he’s inflicted by EE, not to mention his RE or does his AD reach the extent of granting him gradual resistance to EE either. Even assuming he has the opportunity to use a portal to create distance would he not still be subject to erasure? It wouldn’t make a difference.

I could be wrong but since the divine protection allows for Reinhard to land a hit first isn’t this some law manipulation? Garou’s AD definitely doesn’t encompass law manipulation shenanigans. We need feats of such or statements. Even assuming it’s not law related I’m guessing it has some probability to do with it. Do we have a quantifiable value for Garou’s AD amp? How much faster would he get?
Click to expand...
Reinhard's divine protections are not absolute and relies on his and his opponent's stats.

Like "Divine Protection of Initiative", that isn't some absolute rule that will 100% happen. Garou can teleport away and slash won't just cross over dimensions so that it can land because the divine protection says so.

Garou can easily escape from the slash unless Reinhard physically hits him with the sword rather than relying on range.

Garou could even outrun the slash itself rather than teleporting away thanks to his growth.
Divine protections like that rely on the capabilities of the user and opponent. Like Divine Protection of Arrow Evasion for example. (Also fully relying on NLF there. It won't cross over dimensions so it can hit, or simply gain MFTL speed to rival faster enemies' speed to hit them or anything.)
Click to expand...
It's not.

You're just extremely overrating the divine protections and heavily applying NLF when we already know it doesn't work at that level.

Divine protections like that rely on the user and opponents' stats and other situations. They're not absolute laws or anything of the kind.

The attack won't just cross over dimensions, or gain massive speed, or bend infinitely to hit Garou. That's not how the ability works.

Garou's AD differenece is blitz level.

Garou destroys here, not even close.
 
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