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Capella's hax is explicitly more abstract than Mahito's, Mother fra
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Capella VS Mahito (Re: Zero VS Jujutsu Kaisen) (4-1-0)
- Thread starter Phoenks
- Start date
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- #42
Uh, no, it doesn't. To claim that you'd need to first make a CRT and get it added to the page that she can alter your concept. Otherwise, the ability is simply a derivative of her conceptual manipulation, rather than the ability to manipulate the concept of a person itself
'on a conceptual level' is again not supported by the page.
This is a good argument, though.
But Mahito does have a domain expansion.
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Did you not read the page? It is not an ability derivative of conceptual manipulation, but the very manipulation of concepts itself.
Authorities explicitly overwrite the concepts of the world and manipulate them.
This is what Capella's authority would be a part of:
Her Authority would still be beyond his pay grade anyway, since it also includes mind transmutation, something he has no real way to defend against.
Mahito doesn’t typically open fights with his Domain Expansion. The only times he’s used it, were situations where he was heavily pressured or cornered. Most of the time, he tends to be overconfident and overly reckless in battle.
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Agreed, but if his opponent literally split into hundreds of thousands of different small targets encroaching on him, he's tactical enough to deploy Domain. He's used it for less, let alone when it would actually be an intelligent move.
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Possibly, but I don’t really see it as a serious threat to her since she could simply revert herself back and then immediately make contact with him afterward.
Honestly, you could even get a bizarre scenario where Mahito keeps transfiguring Capella into different forms while she continuously reshapes herself inside his Domain. It would probably turn into a horrifying spectacle, and I could easily see Mahito getting unnerved by the fact that she just keeps coming back no matter what he turns her into.
On another note, Capella’s profile is horribly outdated. It doesn’t even properly cover her info analysis, despite that being one of the more notable aspects of her portrayal in Arc 5.
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Mahito can use Idle Transfigure to morph her into a literal blood paste if he wanted (As he did to Nanami's upper torso in Shibuya). From what I've seen on the thread, her best regenerative feat is her body being blown into pieces and her head split in half. Nothing about being reduced to a stain on the floor entirely.
Also, this hasn't been addressed, but to be fair it's also lackluster in how it's listed on the profile; Mahito could mind control Capella. His mind control is biology based. Mahito uses Idle Transfiguration to alter the brain stem and consciousness to induce a state of confusion in which they are utterly subservient to his whim (As linked on the profile). It also causes eventual biological death as a result of shock to the system due to cellular transmogrification.
The only mind manipulation resistance Capella has listed is esoteric corruption stuff. So it does not cover this ability whatsoever.
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She’s already been blown apart before and was able to recover even after being reduced to literal slush without any real issue. At that point, it’s pretty clear her consciousness and thought process aren’t strictly tied to normal biology; otherwise, transforming into rats would logically reduce her intelligence to that of a rat as well because of that, simply turning her into a pile of blood or biologically altering her brain doesn’t really seem like a viable wincon for Mahito.
On top of that, I don’t even recall Mahito ever transfiguring someone into a complete blood paste in the first place, and it doesn’t seem like something he’d realistically manage to pull off before being touched by Capella at least once.
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Wouldn’t his transmutation as a whole also interact with her dragon blood, since the two curses would have to interact like they did when Subaru absorbed the dragon blood from Crushe and that curse fought the bite mark curse he had.
Like when Mahito tried to transmute Itadori’s soul, and he interacted with Sukuna
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Being able to maintain functions without a brain via regeneration does not equate to being immune to biological mind control. That has never been treated as the case for any verse (I guess bar exceptions where something like that was explicitly stated I suppose). Nor does being able to shapeshift imply an immunity to mind control through a forceful alteration of the brain that literally induces mind control. Otherwise all shapeshifters on the wiki would have immunity to biological mind manip. You probably have a case for biological shock not killing her, but the mind control aspect wouldn't fall within this line of argument.
Also where did she regenerate from being turned to slush? The greatest I see on the profile linked is regenerating from just her head, and in the thread the greatest feat I saw was regenerating her head after it was cut clean in half.
I gave an example in the post you're replying to:
It's very much within his capacity to do so.
I have no idea what any of this means in regards to "dragon blood" and "Crushe" etc. I am not a Re: Zero fan so you'll need to elaborate. The case with Sukuna is unique, so there's no reason he'd suffer something similar here unless the things you are mentioning have an interaction identical to what Sukuna and Mahito had when that occurred.
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Nah, knowing bro, he would enjoy her freak and try to surpass it.
They are gonna like toying with each other's bodies, almost like a grotesque art contest
This is just body horror, the matchup lol
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Jiujitsu Kaiser
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- Thread starter
- #52
This is distinct from being able to transmute a person's concept. Your ability bending the concepts of the world is not the same as that ability actually targeting a person's concept.
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The body or the person's concept still has to adhere to the universal concept.
the same way the Concept of Aristotle has to adhere to the concept of humans
so if the laws and concept that dictates what something is is affected so does Aristotle for being human
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why would he keep reshaping her if it clearly doesn't work, instead of just damaging/destroying her soul instead?
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Can Capella bypass Mahito's domain...?
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- Thread starter
- #56
An ability that broadly manipulates universal concepts is not the same as an ability which directly targets and transmutes a person's concept.
Capella's transmutation is derived from her Authority. Authories bend the laws and concepts of the universe to do what they do. However, that does not mean Capella can specifically target someone's concept and alter that. That isn't how the ability has been shown to work, and requires further evidence than what is on the page.
There's a difference on the wiki between the mechanism behind an ability and what the ability can actually do.
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No. If he opens a domain she's pretty much cooked tbh.
She's also cooked if he turns her into mince meat/blood slush or warps her body sufficiently, since her High Mid is lowkey meh.
ShionAH
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Mahito would lowkey get turned on by that dawg...
VortechsTG
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Capella's profile is over a decade out of date because she hasn't appeared again and nobody has thoroughly looked it over in ages...
In any case, Mahito can eventually run out of cursed energy while capella seemingly does not have a limit to her stamina, Capella overall just has more control and versatility in her transfiguration and abilities, and is overall way more powerful and way more intelligent. I have no idea how this matchup is supposed to be remotely even.
Mind you, if she hits him with her black fire (which is pretty clearly inspired by Amaterasu) a single time it's gg. At best he can theoretically draw by immediately killing her at that point but it will continuously burn him until he runs out of cursed energy and dies.
If we're arguing that Mahito is intelligent enough to quickly use his domain expansion to take her out when he sees what she can do, then we have to acknowledge how impressive Capella's info analysis is. Being able to transform into someone she has never seen before just by looking at someone who knows them. Why would she not just send out split off parts of herself to persist even if she's taken out here? She could even send them out in all directions so there's no possible way Mahito could catch them all.
And I'm seeing a lot of talk about Capella's regeneration being weak or something as if her authority didn't allow her to create a spirit, which have low-godly regen themselves. And iirc she may have done that completely from scratch. But we should get more information on that situation soon.
All this not to mention the absurd amp her "battle form" is implied to be, such that she is supposed to be almost as strong as Echidna.
Idk I'm really not seeing the vision with this one.
In any case, Mahito can eventually run out of cursed energy while capella seemingly does not have a limit to her stamina, Capella overall just has more control and versatility in her transfiguration and abilities, and is overall way more powerful and way more intelligent. I have no idea how this matchup is supposed to be remotely even. Mind you, if she hits him with her black fire (which is pretty clearly inspired by Amaterasu) a single time it's gg. At best he can theoretically draw by immediately killing her at that point but it will continuously burn him until he runs out of cursed energy and dies.
If we're arguing that Mahito is intelligent enough to quickly use his domain expansion to take her out when he sees what she can do, then we have to acknowledge how impressive Capella's info analysis is. Being able to transform into someone she has never seen before just by looking at someone who knows them. Why would she not just send out split off parts of herself to persist even if she's taken out here? She could even send them out in all directions so there's no possible way Mahito could catch them all.
And I'm seeing a lot of talk about Capella's regeneration being weak or something as if her authority didn't allow her to create a spirit, which have low-godly regen themselves. And iirc she may have done that completely from scratch. But we should get more information on that situation soon.
All this not to mention the absurd amp her "battle form" is implied to be, such that she is supposed to be almost as strong as Echidna.
Idk I'm really not seeing the vision with this one.
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What does the fire do
VortechsTG
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So it just doesn't go out? Well in the same scan you sent the flames can still be dispersed with something as simple as shockwaves. It would not be hard for Mahito to separate the fire from himself, he just wouldn't ever be able to extinguish it.
VortechsTG
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It's not a shockwave but a beam of mana, so more like a granite blast. But more importantly it is 7-B and the fire was just mid-air at the time. If it had made contact with anything yet there's little reason to believe the same would have occurred.
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Why is there zero reason to believe the fire can be moved? It's inextinguishable, not immovable after all.
VortechsTG
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Being on fire is a very different situation from dealing with fire breath in the air. Especially with the power difference. But I don't really want to focus on this so I'll just back off on this point. I don't think it changes the outcome.
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If you're willing to dismiss this win-con I'll address the rest of your comment with arguments in her favor.
That's one of Mahito's own tricks. It would not be hard for him to
A. Split himself up to round them up
B. Use transfigured humans to create an inescapable arena for them to fight in. Her trying to flee shows weakness to him and makes him believe she's trying to hide something from him. Thus he wouldn't allow her that opportunity.
C. Pop SEoP instantly to contain them all before they have the chance to escape due to the reasons listed in B. He's going to be sussed out by that as someone who uses the tactic himself (In Shibuya and to escape Nanami & Yuji)
D. A combination of the ones listed above.
He has plenty of ways to manage this.
Mahito's IT can cause irreparable damage to the soul. Her regeneration would need to be capable of restoring her body from a pure liquefied state and her soul being blown to bits. If she can recover from that, it still doesn't matter as my above point of him being able to mind control her biologically would allow him to incap her. If she can regenerate from that and resist biological mind control, then Mahito has no way of winning whatsoever.
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This is truly a freak off
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If I knew both characters I'd write up a little story. I need practice for my creative writing degree anywho.
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I’m a little busy with a silly goofy CRT right now, but I should mention that the curse brought up above refers to the Dragon Blood curse, which clashed with the Ulgarms’ curse back in Arc 2 and basically ended up negating the effects of both.
While Crusch Karsten was actively suffering from the Dragon Blood curse, Subaru was mostly fine aside from turning black (there is genuinely no better way to phrase that
).
So yeah, technically Capella Emerada Lugnica, who is absolutely loaded with Dragon Blood, should logically have some level of curse resistance.
While Crusch Karsten was actively suffering from the Dragon Blood curse, Subaru was mostly fine aside from turning black (there is genuinely no better way to phrase that
).So yeah, technically Capella Emerada Lugnica, who is absolutely loaded with Dragon Blood, should logically have some level of curse resistance.
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I'm fine with this. I didn't really consider being cursed in any of my arguments because it's hardly ever relevant in JJK.I’m a little busy with a silly goofy CRT right now, but I should mention that the curse brought up above refers to the Dragon Blood curse, which clashed with the Ulgarms’ curse back in Arc 2 and basically ended up negating the effects of both.
While Crusch Karsten was actively suffering from the Dragon Blood curse, Subaru was mostly fine aside from turning black (there is genuinely no better way to phrase that
So yeah, technically Capella Emerada Lugnica, who is absolutely loaded with Dragon Blood, should logically have some level of curse resistance.
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Irrelevant because Mahito could kill her before he runs out of Cursed Energy. Her High-Mid regeneration is not unbeatable whatsoever.
I think you are overrating this a lot, lol. There's no reason to believe Mahito couldn't just, like... Transform in such a way that he disconnects with the portion of himself that was on fire.
These are two completely different types of intelligence.
Capella's ability to transform into someone's ideal type based on just analyzing them is a very, very specific skill. And there's no reason to assume she would even know a Domain Expansion is coming. You can't just assume that her information analysis goes that far when it has only shown relation to a person's attraction, which relates to her overall theme as Lust.
Also, Mahito using his domain expansion is not some super intelligent thing to do lmao. That's like, average level battle IQ bro. It's literally his strongest move.
Creation is not regeneration.
Her regeneration is High-Mid on the page.
You don't even know if she fully created that spirit.
So this is a non-point.
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Where? I don't think we ever see her changing the shape of someone's soul nor we got a confirmation of this.
She shouldn't be able to do this, at least based on her current feats as far as i'm aware.
Her soul resistance also isn't enough against being changed like that.
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Changing the body = changing the soul in re zero. The opposite is also true.
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Body follows the shape of the soul, but we don't have it being the other way nor any confirmation about it as far as i know?
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Changing the mind also equals to changing the soul which she has shown to do twice
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Sphinx says the converse is also true
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Following this logic btw, you did need to change the soul to change the body
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Again, if you can bend a Universal concept, you can as well bend personal concepts.
You are basically assuming CM type 2 users cannot manipulate concepts that are inferior to universals
If you can manipulate a universal, then concepts that are derivative or personal that originate from it can also be manipulated
If you can manipulate the concept of fire as a whole, you can manipulate Blue Fire, Apocalyptic fire, etc
If you can manipulate the Concept of humans, you can manipulate specific concepts that are under the concept of humans
And Capella is specifically targeting herself using her authority to use her abilities, which shows how her bending of concepts can be used in a precise way and not necessarily only through general manipulation
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