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Elysium is just an island once you step out of the main meadow you just instantly fall to the Hyperdimension it's a flat earth thing ongProves nothing. That could be a house sized island floating in space
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Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)
- Thread starter TheUnshakableOne
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Calling it an island is too much wonk
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No it is a island, a small island that took Hades 1 septillion years to build.
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ld say Sasha was not as strong as Saori. After all, it took her, Tenma, and Alone with a part of Hades’s power to drive back Hades soul alone, whereas Saori could battle Hades body and soul, even if she’s in the back foot
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[Phoenix Ikki Vs. Leomon]
[SBA] [Equalized Speed] [Both at L1-C; God Cloth & Leomon] [Location: Pride Lands(The Lion King)] Votes: [The Phoenix that always resurrects] [The Lion that always reincarnates] [Inconclusive]
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Ladies and gentlemen, the first chapter of Saint Seiya Tekai-hen has been published.
It was a transitional chapter to explain what happened with the Underworld, but it is interesting because of all the information it reveals about the Underworld.
Ker in this chapter mentions that the Underworld and Hades were reduced to absolute nothingness; therefore, this confirms that Hades was indeed destroyed by Athena and that he is no longer present in the Underworld. Therefore, we can say Kurumada discards any possibility of Rerise of Poseidon being canon, a great decision by Kurumada.
However, when Ker realizes that Athena’s cosmos was weakening, there is again mention that a goddess with eternal life like her cannot disappear, meaning it is once again confirmed that gods do not die, they only disappear for a time. In this case, Ker mentions that the Underworld would take at least a thousand years to return; therefore, perhaps this would be the time it would take for Hades to return now that Athena has destroyed him.
However, at the end Ker seems to suggest that with Athena’s absence, all of the goddess’s powers are nullified; therefore, that would mean the resurrection of the Underworld.
This last part is a very interesting detail, as it perhaps suggests that the Underworld would take so long to return because of Athena’s power, so this would indicate that Athena’s power would somehow be canceling the resurrection of the Underworld, including Hades himself, Thanatos, and Hypnos.
So this chapter confirms the immortality of the Specters in Kurumada’s work and also reaffirms the immortality of the gods.
Additionally, an interesting detail at the beginning of the chapter is that another part of the Underworld is mentioned: Purgatory, the place where the sins of earthly life are purified, located between Elysion and Hell. This is the only place that was not completely destroyed, and it is where Ker encounters the Surplice of Orthos in this chapter.
So this confirms that the Underworld is even larger than we thought.
I would like to know your opinion on the details mentioned in this chapter, because it seems that some things have been revealed that could be interesting.
It was a transitional chapter to explain what happened with the Underworld, but it is interesting because of all the information it reveals about the Underworld.
Ker in this chapter mentions that the Underworld and Hades were reduced to absolute nothingness; therefore, this confirms that Hades was indeed destroyed by Athena and that he is no longer present in the Underworld. Therefore, we can say Kurumada discards any possibility of Rerise of Poseidon being canon, a great decision by Kurumada.
However, when Ker realizes that Athena’s cosmos was weakening, there is again mention that a goddess with eternal life like her cannot disappear, meaning it is once again confirmed that gods do not die, they only disappear for a time. In this case, Ker mentions that the Underworld would take at least a thousand years to return; therefore, perhaps this would be the time it would take for Hades to return now that Athena has destroyed him.
However, at the end Ker seems to suggest that with Athena’s absence, all of the goddess’s powers are nullified; therefore, that would mean the resurrection of the Underworld.
This last part is a very interesting detail, as it perhaps suggests that the Underworld would take so long to return because of Athena’s power, so this would indicate that Athena’s power would somehow be canceling the resurrection of the Underworld, including Hades himself, Thanatos, and Hypnos.
So this chapter confirms the immortality of the Specters in Kurumada’s work and also reaffirms the immortality of the gods.
Additionally, an interesting detail at the beginning of the chapter is that another part of the Underworld is mentioned: Purgatory, the place where the sins of earthly life are purified, located between Elysion and Hell. This is the only place that was not completely destroyed, and it is where Ker encounters the Surplice of Orthos in this chapter.
So this confirms that the Underworld is even larger than we thought.
I would like to know your opinion on the details mentioned in this chapter, because it seems that some things have been revealed that could be interesting.
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In the image of the destruction of the Underworld, we can see that that strange space-time distortion similar to a black hole devoured everything, reducing it to nothing.
Is it just my imagination, or does it seem like the distortion is also devouring nebulae and galaxies?
In the lower right corner, we can also see another space-time distortion, different from the black hole that was devouring the other two.
Could this be a representation of the hyperdimension? Could it be that the galaxies being consumed by the black hole are the ones that were in that place?.
And if the Underworld collapsed after being devoured by a massive black hole in space-time, this would mean that the God Saints and Athena could gain maximum resistance to gravity, probably greater than that of a supermassive black hole. Since they survived and escaped the destruction of the Underworld.
Additionally, if the gods are completely eternal, would there be any way to kill a god permanently in this franchise?.
So far, I only remember that Chrysus’ sword is said to be capable of killing a god, although I’m not sure whether it can kill them permanently or only temporarily. After all, the sword did not kill Athena. Or is Kurumada planning a retcon with that weapon, and will it be the only way to definitively kill a god in this saga?.
There is also that mention that Zeus can turn a god like Athena into a mortal; perhaps he can annihilate a divinity by reducing it to a simple mortal who can die like anyone else.
In general, it seems that nothing truly dies in this franchise. The Gold Saints don’t die and instead transcend to a higher plane; the Specters also don’t die, since they can always return in some form; and the gods don’t die either, because they can always come back even if they are reduced to nothing.
Is it just my imagination, or does it seem like the distortion is also devouring nebulae and galaxies?
In the lower right corner, we can also see another space-time distortion, different from the black hole that was devouring the other two.
Could this be a representation of the hyperdimension? Could it be that the galaxies being consumed by the black hole are the ones that were in that place?.
And if the Underworld collapsed after being devoured by a massive black hole in space-time, this would mean that the God Saints and Athena could gain maximum resistance to gravity, probably greater than that of a supermassive black hole. Since they survived and escaped the destruction of the Underworld.
Additionally, if the gods are completely eternal, would there be any way to kill a god permanently in this franchise?.
So far, I only remember that Chrysus’ sword is said to be capable of killing a god, although I’m not sure whether it can kill them permanently or only temporarily. After all, the sword did not kill Athena. Or is Kurumada planning a retcon with that weapon, and will it be the only way to definitively kill a god in this saga?.
There is also that mention that Zeus can turn a god like Athena into a mortal; perhaps he can annihilate a divinity by reducing it to a simple mortal who can die like anyone else.
In general, it seems that nothing truly dies in this franchise. The Gold Saints don’t die and instead transcend to a higher plane; the Specters also don’t die, since they can always return in some form; and the gods don’t die either, because they can always come back even if they are reduced to nothing.
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it seems the case to me
Hasty12345
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G explains so long as a god is remembered they’re immortal iirc
Hasty12345
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We got debunked alongside DB and GoW by the most logical citizen
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Me when explicitly metaphysical power systems behave in explicitly metaphysical ways
The AE thing is particularly stupid because not only does it ignore the narrative, it makes no sense with the rest of the scaling. The doc tries to use the fact that the combined clash of the Athena Exclamations can't be universal or higher because it's stated to only threaten Sanctuary (roughly a mountain sized location), but if we follow this logic, then Milo would be above the AE clash seeing as he sunk Andromeda Island, the same Milo who contributed to that clash as part of the loyalist Saints. So Milo > Milo/Aiolia/Mu/Saga/Camus/Shura. Real Libra Weapons > Hades > Thanatos > Libra Weapons vibes.
Not to mention that in the Taizen, one of the Terrestrial Star Specters was going to sink the Sanctuary once Athena and the Saints were defeated. Not a Judge, not even a Celestial Star, a Terrestrial.
後方集団を務めていた事が災いし、オクスと同じく、シュラに冥衣を剥ぎ取られた冥闘士。大地を引き裂く技で、女神抹殺後の聖域を地に沈める役目を担っていた**
With the technique of tearing the earth, it would've played the role of sinking the sanctuary after the eradication of the goddess.
I guess even the fodder of Hades' army could solo the entire Saint army.
It gets worse once you look beyond Classic. Gold Saints have been destroying cosmic scale dimensions since the 2000s when Mu nuked Iapetos' dimension. Aiolia then destroyed Saga's dimension in Sho and more recently Soujiro obliterated Yaldabaoth's prison dimension with a single GE (and he may be participating in an AE himself in the next DW chapter). I guess those feats were all wank from other authors who fail to understand Kurumada's setting where Cain shakes the galaxy and Virgos replicate the birth and death of the universe.
Plus, like, the whole concept of Cosmo as a power system is that you can tap into your own internal universe to make shit happen on the outside world. From the very beginning of the series, Cosmo was defined as a power focused on the microscopic, and this was shown when Marin taught Seiya to target atoms to destroy objects that would otherwise be too durable to break. Sure, Saints can blow stuff up, but they're also capable of focusing all that energy on you to blow you up, and nothing else, like when Kanon one shot Lune in Inferno. As I said, Cosmo is a fundamentally metaphysical power which plays fast and loose with the laws of physics. Some people might then use this fact to argue that Cosmo is therefore unquantifiable, to which I can only respond with the several instances of Gold Saints blowing up dimensions across the franchise. Just because something might not strictly adhere to certains laws of physics doesn't mean that it can't generate enough energy to atomize you. You're just refusing to engage with the source material at that point.
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I cant believe saito of DW actually listened to my DMs and read my sandbox
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Unshakable be carefulI cant believe saito of DW actually listened to my DMs and read my sandbox
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im joking lol just the new chapter was too weirdly convenient
Unshakable be careful
Unshakable be careful
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The Athena Exclamation fulfilled its usual purpose: it didn’t defeat the enemy and only made them even stronger.
The legendary technique: it has been used around seven times throughout the franchise and has defeated zero opponents.
The legendary technique: it has been used around seven times throughout the franchise and has defeated zero opponents.
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- Thread starter
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Are you including SSO?
The Athena Exclamation fulfilled its usual purpose: it didn’t defeat the enemy and only made them even stronger.
The legendary technique: it has been used around seven times throughout the franchise and has defeated zero opponents.
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I haven’t found any translation of the chapter, but from what I was able to read, it seems they talk a lot about the Demiurge’s power to reverse causality, and it’s implied that they have repeated this story thousands of times in order to achieve the current outcome. In one of the worlds, the three Judges never awakened, and the Saints completely wiped the floor with the Specters. In another world, Sojiro died during the ship incident and became the Wyrm Specter of the Heavenly Prestige Star, fighting against Vassilios and ending the battle with both of them dying.
Which SSO? Saint Seiya Omega or Saint Seiya Online?
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Saint seiya online with thanatos. Iirc he just backhand swats it away
Also yoir right but he did it by manipulating the concept of time
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My knowledge of Saint Seiya Online is extremely limited, so I didn’t take it into account.
Although it seems that Saito and Ueda made a reference to Saint Seiya Online in this chapter with the Wyrm Specter, who had previously appeared in that video game. According to what an acquaintance told me, he was part of a special group of Specters capable of manipulating time.
Wasn’t it causality manipulation instead?
In fact, the way Yoruhime describes it seems to imply that causality manipulation (“reversing causality”) was a greater power than simple time manipulation (“reversing time”).
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Nah its being explained as all the same thing. I have a while blog on this coming but its all related to Samsara abd karmic cyclesMy knowledge of Saint Seiya Online is extremely limited, so I didn’t take it into account.
Although it seems that Saito and Ueda made a reference to Saint Seiya Online in this chapter with the Wyrm Specter, who had previously appeared in that video game. According to what an acquaintance told me, he was part of a special group of Specters capable of manipulating time.
Wasn’t it causality manipulation instead?
In fact, the way Yoruhime describes it seems to imply that causality manipulation (“reversing causality”) was a greater power than simple time manipulation (“reversing time”).
Hasty12345
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It killed Shaka when he let it hit himThe Athena Exclamation fulfilled its usual purpose: it didn’t defeat the enemy and only made them even stronger.
The legendary technique: it has been used around seven times throughout the franchise and has defeated zero opponents.
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And it made Shaka stronger, no?
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Do you know where I can watch the episode?I cant believe saito of DW actually listened to my DMs and read my sandbox
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For Saint Seiya the anime?
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I was referring to Dark Wing
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Dark Wing doesn't have a anime yet, honestly it'd probably come out.... in like 14 years
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Uh, I meant the manga. I couldn't find a place with good translations, and Champions Red isn't exactly free.
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Dang that’s awesome, though I’m like 99% sure the sso image shown is actually of a player character wearing the wyvern cloth without wingsAlthough it seems that Saito and Ueda made a reference to Saint Seiya Online in this chapter with the Wyrm Specter, who had previously appeared in that video game. According to what an acquaintance told me, he was part of a special group of Specters capable of manipulating time.
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It also beat a door in lc
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It's been a while since I read it, but was that a AE they used?
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Not only did it fail to kill Zenith, it also failed to destroy the Sagittarius Cloth. Throw it in the pile for possible 2-A Gold Cloth's
Other than that, it was also revealed that Zenith wanted to lose so that he could awaken Demiurge's Kamui, and that he had been rewinding causality over and over again because he kept winning (lmao). Suffering from success, I guess.
I'm not exactly sure why he needed to be defeated to get his Kamui, but perhaps it's linked to what Uranus said in GR. Gods, being eternal, are not able to manifest miracles into being the same way humans can, because humans are finite creatures who have no choice but to perform miracles in order to survive. Tasting defeat could perhaps be seen as a way for him to become stronger (though he should already be beyond the AE at his full power).
Alternatively, this is all a Gnostic reference and Demiurge is trying to return to Barbelo. In Gnostic belief, the Demiurge is either the malicious or ignorant craftsman of the physical world who keeps mankind trapped in it because he believes himself to be the true creator god. Perhaps Saint Seiya's version realized he wasn't, maybe by interacting with other deities (Gaia's coming back in GR so bro's in for a rude awakening if he's still convinced he's that guy) and is now planning to ascend to a higher plane himself. Would be a cool twist on the formula of the malignant Demiurge narrative
Other than that, it was also revealed that Zenith wanted to lose so that he could awaken Demiurge's Kamui, and that he had been rewinding causality over and over again because he kept winning (lmao). Suffering from success, I guess.
I'm not exactly sure why he needed to be defeated to get his Kamui, but perhaps it's linked to what Uranus said in GR. Gods, being eternal, are not able to manifest miracles into being the same way humans can, because humans are finite creatures who have no choice but to perform miracles in order to survive. Tasting defeat could perhaps be seen as a way for him to become stronger (though he should already be beyond the AE at his full power).
Alternatively, this is all a Gnostic reference and Demiurge is trying to return to Barbelo. In Gnostic belief, the Demiurge is either the malicious or ignorant craftsman of the physical world who keeps mankind trapped in it because he believes himself to be the true creator god. Perhaps Saint Seiya's version realized he wasn't, maybe by interacting with other deities (Gaia's coming back in GR so bro's in for a rude awakening if he's still convinced he's that guy) and is now planning to ascend to a higher plane himself. Would be a cool twist on the formula of the malignant Demiurge narrative
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The chapter 2 of Saint Seiya: Tenkai-hen has been released.
The most interesting part of the chapter regarding the characters’ powers is that it suggests Athena’s existence passively affects the world, preventing people from becoming evil and falling into violence and conflict.
Page 10
Homeless person: F… Food…
Homeless person: M… Money…
Shun: They’re thieves…
Shun: They’ve been appearing more and more lately.
Shun: People say that public safety is worsening all over the world.
Shun: And that, if this continues, the world will end up full of evil people…
Shun: …And then the Earth will be engulfed in darkness.
Page 11
Shun: They say that this is because the goddess who protected love and justice on Earth…
Shun: …has disappeared from this world…
Seiya: A goddess?
Seiya: What do you mean?
Shun: Well, I don’t know much about it either.
Shun: It’s just rumors.
This could be a reference to the conceptual existence of gods and how those who define them affect the world.
It is also confirmed that the Underworld Soldiers can return to life through their Surplices now that Athena’s power was weakening.
Although this is nothing new either, since we had already seen that the soldiers also shared the immortality of the Specters in Chapter 12 of Saint Mariya.
However, it seems that later they turned Wyrm into a separate Specter unrelated to Wyvern, though the characteristic of the armor continuing to evolve as the player leveled up was kept, in addition to allowing its color to be customized.
Even so, it’s still quite curious that Saito and Ueda made a reference to Saint Seiya Online.
By the way, Seira plays Saint Seiya Awakening, so I’m hoping for references to it in Saint Mariya.
The most interesting part of the chapter regarding the characters’ powers is that it suggests Athena’s existence passively affects the world, preventing people from becoming evil and falling into violence and conflict.
Page 10
Homeless person: F… Food…
Homeless person: M… Money…
Shun: They’re thieves…
Shun: They’ve been appearing more and more lately.
Shun: People say that public safety is worsening all over the world.
Shun: And that, if this continues, the world will end up full of evil people…
Shun: …And then the Earth will be engulfed in darkness.
Page 11
Shun: They say that this is because the goddess who protected love and justice on Earth…
Shun: …has disappeared from this world…
Seiya: A goddess?
Seiya: What do you mean?
Shun: Well, I don’t know much about it either.
Shun: It’s just rumors.
It is also confirmed that the Underworld Soldiers can return to life through their Surplices now that Athena’s power was weakening.
Although this is nothing new either, since we had already seen that the soldiers also shared the immortality of the Specters in Chapter 12 of Saint Mariya.
Yes, according to the same acquaintance who explained that detail to me, it seems that in the first version of Saint Seiya Online, the Wyrm Specter was originally just a low-ranking armor within Hades’ army, which evolved as you leveled up until it eventually became the Wyvern Surplice. The image was apparently its third-to-last evolution.
However, it seems that later they turned Wyrm into a separate Specter unrelated to Wyvern, though the characteristic of the armor continuing to evolve as the player leveled up was kept, in addition to allowing its color to be customized.
Even so, it’s still quite curious that Saito and Ueda made a reference to Saint Seiya Online.
By the way, Seira plays Saint Seiya Awakening, so I’m hoping for references to it in Saint Mariya.
Probably one of the few times that the AE actually accomplished its objective in this franchise.
It sounds interesting, so I’ll wait for you to publish that blog so I can read it, although I always thought that the power to manipulate causality was superior to time manipulation. Well, it seems I was wrong.
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Hasty12345
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That's verse specific, it's not something that is predeterrmined by site standards.It sounds interesting, so I’ll wait for you to publish that blog so I can read it, although I always thought that the power to manipulate causality was superior to time manipulation. Well, it seems I was wrong.
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The Chapter 15 of Saint Mariya has been released, although it didn't feature any particularly significant feats worth mentioning. However, the chapter was really good—probably one of the best chapters of Saint Mariya so far—and it reinforces what I've been saying, the Kiki from Saint Mariya is probably one of the best versions of this character in the entire franchise.
Some details from the chapter:
Minos has new abilities. He can now use his strings to fire cutting waves and pierce his opponent's body.
As mentioned in other forums, it’s interesting how, in the franchise, Minos starts using the threads of his technique in a way similar to Donquixote Doflamingo.
And Kiki was responsible for reconstructing the Gold Cloths after the battle against Hades.
The next chapter, which will be released in July, begins the fight between Aries Kiki and Griffon Minos; it may feature some important feat or interesting abilities.
The chapters 3 and 4 of Tenkai-hen also haven’t had any noteworthy information worth mentioning. I even feel that these chapters have been quite slow, and the plot has barely progressed at all.
Perhaps the only important thing to mention is that Kurumada explained that he had Kuori’s help for this season, and that Kurumada mentioned that the Final Edition of the Hades Arc will have several changes.
今シリーズは久織ちまき先生に協力いただきました。 ありがとうございます!
For this series, we received cooperation from Ms. Chimaki Kuori. Thank you very much!
「聖闘士星矢 Final Edition」 14巻が7月8日に発売されます。大幅に加筆されたハーデス篇をお楽しみに!
“Saint Seiya Final Edition” Volume 14 will be released on July 8. Look forward to the heavily revised and expanded Hades arc.
Some details from the chapter:
Minos has new abilities. He can now use his strings to fire cutting waves and pierce his opponent's body.
As mentioned in other forums, it’s interesting how, in the franchise, Minos starts using the threads of his technique in a way similar to Donquixote Doflamingo.
And Kiki was responsible for reconstructing the Gold Cloths after the battle against Hades.
The next chapter, which will be released in July, begins the fight between Aries Kiki and Griffon Minos; it may feature some important feat or interesting abilities.
The chapters 3 and 4 of Tenkai-hen also haven’t had any noteworthy information worth mentioning. I even feel that these chapters have been quite slow, and the plot has barely progressed at all.
Perhaps the only important thing to mention is that Kurumada explained that he had Kuori’s help for this season, and that Kurumada mentioned that the Final Edition of the Hades Arc will have several changes.
今シリーズは久織ちまき先生に協力いただきました。 ありがとうございます!
For this series, we received cooperation from Ms. Chimaki Kuori. Thank you very much!
「聖闘士星矢 Final Edition」 14巻が7月8日に発売されます。大幅に加筆されたハーデス篇をお楽しみに!
“Saint Seiya Final Edition” Volume 14 will be released on July 8. Look forward to the heavily revised and expanded Hades arc.
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So Tenkai-Hen confirms what the spinoffs also confirmed: The Underworld was ******* gone and MAYBE Hades and co would have come back in a thousand years or so, but Zeus erasing Athena meant "Oh shit, we're back"
