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Saiga Riki-Oh upgrade, 9-A -> 7-B

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Hey, I'm new here, I've read a couple threads but I made my account for the express purpose of working on Riki-Oh's wiki page since it's been irking me a little whenever I'm looking through stuff and it pops up. The ability section is pretty good but it lacks a lot of info/cosmetics and generally comes off as half done, so I wanted to right those wrongs. I also updated the page without knowledge that I had to go through this thread thing so shame on me once, thanks to @Just a Random Butler for bringing this to my attention.

Apart from minor issues like Riki's page not having his last name or backstory, the first to hit me in the face is the scaling of 9-A, small building level, which is just super far removed from his power at the EOTS.

Here's some notable attack feats of Riki's, I'll give you chapters to give you a scope of how far along he is when each feat happens, Riki-Oh is only 75 chapters. Feats in bold will be to indicate which I've added to his wiki, and those which are italicized will indicate which were already present.
=================================================================
Broke a massive section of a prison's wall - Chapter 13
A Ki struggle between Riki and Mukai was able to create a gigantic crater in the ground - Chapter 71
Attack potency - 9-A, Small Building Level


Punched a hole into a massive oil tanker and shot it multiple yards away from the dock - Chapter 29
is stronger than Nachi who was able to rip apart multiple buildings by powering up - Chapter 30, Riki-Oh: Child of Destruction OVA
the mixing of his and Nachi's ki was able to destroy The Cape. - Chapter 28, Chapter 30, and Chapter 14 respectively, here's the feat in the
manga/anime
Even while going blind, suffering from massive blood loss, and dying, Riki is able to easily shatter the ground with a punch - Chapter 39
Riki and Nachi's ki mixing was capable of ripping a hole in the Ionosphere enough to where radiation was going to kill everyone on Earth and starting a massive earthquake, - Chapter 61, chapter 62
Nachi was also able to destroy the Crystal Mountain, stop an earthquake capable of destroying various buildings, and patch the Ionosphere with his last dying energy, as a mere head - Chapter 62
is stronger than Mukai who shook and broke his massive palace with a simple stomp - Chapter 73, Chapter 71, Chapter 69
is able to utilize 200% of his power through meditation - Chapter 71
Proposed attack potency: 7-B, City level, likely higher due to becoming continuously stronger throughout the story, higher when facing evil (also shown
here)

This is just one step in the list, but I hope you're starting to see what I'm getting at here. By chapter 30, not even halfway through the series, Riki and his brother's fight destroyed an entire city, Nachi alone was rending buildings by powering up and ripping holes in the ground (at least comparable to a feat like Tarkus'), but Riki was stuck at 9-A. And after that, Riki continues to get stronger, but since Riki doesn't just keep blowing up bigger and bigger stuff, a non-reader might not see it at first glance.

Lemme give you a simple run-down for the "likely higher due to becoming continuously stronger throughout the story" part, since you're gonna see this a lot- The first end of arc boss (Chapter 12) that Riki faces is The Warden, who Riki cannot harm at first, but after getting stronger during the course of the fight, he's able to one shot him. After this, he faces Washizaki (Chapter 17), who knocks him out during their first encounter, but 10 chapters later, Riki dog walks him, Nachi does, too. It's the standard Shonen kinda powercliffing that you'll see in most series, so you should understand why City Level isn't his limit. Chapter 13 Riki < Chapter 27 Riki < Chapter 30 Nachi < Chapter 30 Riki, < Chapter 62 Nachi < Chapter 62 Riki, so on and so forth. There's a near constant climb of power, but Riki doesn't always get stronger and stronger or faster and faster feats.

Now onto speed, and the same rules apply.
=================================================================
Has blocked and caught bullets from guns - Chapter 2, Chapter 12 this one has actually been scaled to High Hypersonic+ already, Mach 72+ (he's also dodged direct gunfire multiple times, like in chapter 48)
can run fast enough to disappear from
people's sight - Chapter 35
Speed - Subsonic


is fast enough to make armed enemies shoot themselves, - Chapter 31, Chapter 48
out-sped Otto who was able to punch so fast that his fists were invisible underwater, - Chapter 25
was
able to dodge an explosion point blank without any damage - Chapter 60
Proposed speed - High Hypersonic+ ,likely higher due to becoming continuously stronger throughout the story


And onto lifting strength, I actually don't think this section is too bad, but it's missing his best lifting feat.
=================================================================
Was able to rip out iron bars. - Chapter 7, he also does this later with thicker bars in Chapter 27
Was able to flip a fighting ring, a standard ring weighs between 1200 and 1450kg. - Chapter 22
He was able to stop a falling ship's funnel and maintained over his head. - Chapter 29
Even while damaged and exhausted, Riki was able to hold a huge hydraulic press trying to crush him for a while. - Chapter 7
Lifting strength: Class 5, likely higher


Is stronger than Evil-Oh who was able to lift this boulder (and throw it with one arm) and rip trees out of the ground to swing them with ease. Evil-Oh is over double Riki's size - Chapter 50, Chapter 49
Proposed lifting strength: Class K


Striking strength is a little redundant to go over so we'll just move to durability, stamina, and wrap things up.
==================================================================
Has endured being smashed through brick walls on multiple occasions and has fought people superior to his own strength. - Chapter 12, Chapter 45
He was able survive Nachi's attempt to telekinetically crush him, Nachi
can casually divide and reunite the ground using his telekinetic powers. - Chapter 27 (also see the Child of Destruction OVA)
Durability: 9-A, Small Building Level

Gets up after being sent through multiple trees by Evil-Oh's punch, survives Evil-Oh attempting to crush his head. - Chapter 49
Has survived Mukai's attempts at killing him, was
able to survive taking the full brunt of his and Mukai's ki blasts getting sent back at him. - Chapter 73, Chapter 69
Proposed durability: 7-B, City Level (mostly supported through the upscaling shown up in the AP section).
=================================================================

Has incredible pain tolerance to the point where he can speak after having blades in his mouth - Chapter 10
is okay with his fist being on fire - Chapter 19
Stamina- Superhuman (I actually agree with this one, more feats, though)


is able to fight and defeat an opponent while experiencing cyanosis and going blind - Chapter 38, Chapter 39
Is likely able to survive without vital organs and limbs much like other weaker characters in verse - Chapter 27, Chapter 62
==================================================================


That's really it for the major stuff here, tell me if any of the links don't work/there's any issues with what I'm showing. I can also expand on the "mixing of energies" thing with scans if necessary, the basic gist is either brother could cause these calamities on their own, but Riki straight up wouldn't and Nachi didn't have reason to cause any before Riki made his appearance at the Cape, where at that time it took half of Nachi's power to destroy it, even while using Riki's power to make the process easier. Either man being able to do these feats alone is supported by the fact that they later on do produce feats like this, in addition to Mukai doing similar stuff, not to even mention that the Child of Destruction plan would make little to no sense if they needed both brothers to cause these calamities.

The Child of Destruction plan was to remove Nachi's head and put it onto Riki's body (think Dio and Jonathan), making the child that should've been born rather than the twins, and then using that child to destroy the world following the Bible's prophecies. The latter half of this plan would be unachievable/useless if they needed both twins to cause calamities. Riki, Nachi, and Mukai should all be able to destroy cities on their own.

Edit: Might have to work a little harder on the scaling since Riki and Nachi's
disruption of Earth's magnetism threatened to kill everyone on the planet. The Cape also seems to be more Island sized than City sized.
@Silvervigilant also brought up durability feats like Riki coming out unscathed from the Crystal Mountain falling on top of him and Aneyama's palace being blown up.
 
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I already explained in this thread why I think the Nachi stuff is not viable for scaling at all.
 
I already explained in this thread why I think the Nachi stuff is not viable for scaling at all.
Your arguments on there really aren't accurate, I'm surprised that nobody debunked you on that thread. A lot of what I'm gonna say here will just be reiterating what I already said in my initial post so if stuff isn't noted just check that.

"1. Nachi easily overpowers Riki with his powers, in the in chapter 27 we see him easily pin Riki into the wall. Riki only directly counters Nachi's power due to their powers counteracting one another, rather than Riki being outright stronger."
This applies ONLY for chapters 27 and 28, and by the end of 28 Riki is still able to send Nachi flying with a punch. As the fight progresses through 29 and 30 Riki catches up to Nachi and ends up winning in hand to hand combat by snapping Nachi's neck, forcing him out of his demon state. Once the arc is over, he just gets stronger and stronger (both shown through struggling with later opponents, fighting upwards in Mukai's chain of command, and Chou Zenki saying that Riki has surpassed him later on, when he said nothing of the sort in chapter 33). This would be like saying Goku doesn't scale over Taopaipai cause he loses the first time around (except Riki actually does better).

"2. The weather stuff only happens when their two marks touch, with neither party actively causing the weather phenoms, with Nachi later asking Riki to help do it again. It's clearly a very specific interaction rather than anything related to sheer power."
We only see it happen in that arc when their marks touch, but it's really nothing more than a channeling point. Riki has no reason to show these feats on his own because he ultimately doesn't want to hurt anybody in The Cape or anywhere else, and Nachi doesn't try to destroy the city on his own because-
1. He wants to guilt Riki into joining him, adopting his idea that "death is eternal", and go along with the Child of Destruction Plan, having Riki be half of the catalyst for the deaths might help influence him to see it from Nachi's side.
And 2. Nachi at this time would have to expend more energy on his own to destroy the whole city (even with Riki's help it still took half of his energy to do so), which would basically be stupid when he can use half of his brother's energy to make the job easier in every way, not to mention the fact that he's already in a life or death battle with Riki. Why would his own energy when literally EVERYTHING goes smoother if he uses Riki's hand?


Nachi already shows in this arc that he's capable of destroying multiple buildings just by powering up, and later arcs show him stopping earthquakes, patching the ionosphere, destroying buildings (again), and Mukai (who Riki ultimately becomes stronger than) shaking his MASSIVE PALACE with just a stomp. He's literally shown to be able to stop the catastrophes that he and Riki's energy mixing causes, while dying, and oh did I mention that he's just a head at this point?... So, why is that not scalable, again?

3. A literal chapter later he needs multiple punches to cause a massive breach in a ship's haul, which while is probably an anti-feat for 9-A+, is still at least in the general scale. Meanwhile it's pretty clear the franchise is not treating the massive weather stuff as something that represents physicals, heck Nachi is sweating while using his TK to pull down a part of a ship onto Riki.
He really doesn't need to throw multiple punches, you can see him throw a couple weaker ones but then he immediately throws one that shatters the hull and sends it back from the dock. This is a callback to chapter 1, where he also throws a couple punches at his prison wall, but then throws one that shatters it easily. Also, it's clear that the franchise DOES treat these catastrophe feats as part of the character's powers, refer back to the section above where Nachi literally stops catastrophes right after his and his brother's power creates them. Also, Nachi is sweating because he entered his true demon state, stressing his body and making his blood vessels pop out after he already used energy to cause the catastrophes with Riki, not because he's having trouble lifting part of the ship.

And finally, the Child of Destruction plan would make NO SENSE if they needed Riki and Nachi's hands to touch to cause catastrophes, both characters are capable of performing these feats themselves as shown by Nachi being able to, and Riki being above Nachi and Mukai as well.

These reasons you list really aren't accurate and beyond that they only take into account 3-4 chapters out of an entire 75 chapter story where more stuff like this occurs.
 
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I seriously have to ask why it's necessary to get mods to approve this stuff when none of the mods are knowledgeable on Riki-Oh and nobody's even trying to read the thread. 🤷‍♂️

People seemingly tried to update it a year ago cause the current page is barren and inaccurate but still no response there either.
 
I seriously have to ask why it's necessary to get mods to approve this stuff when none of the mods are knowledgeable on Riki-Oh and nobody's even trying to read the thread. 🤷‍♂️

People seemingly tried to update it a year ago cause the current page is barren and inaccurate but still no response there either.
I understand your frustration but this attitude will not help your case. Anyway the thread seems well constructed with lots of evidence to me so I agree for now until more knowledgeable people show up.
 
I understand your frustration but this attitude will not help your case. Anyway the thread seems well constructed with lots of evidence to me so I agree for now until more knowledgeable people show up.
On the off chance that they exist and do show up. (Hopefully)
 
I seriously have to ask why it's necessary to get mods to approve this stuff when none of the mods are knowledgeable on Riki-Oh and nobody's even trying to read the thread. 🤷‍♂️
That's literally how it works for all verses. You're required to get moderator votes for it to be accepted.
 
I'm referring to the:

It doesn't matter if they've never even heard of the verse
Which I know, I'm questioning why that's the case when it just means it takes years for pages to get properly updated if the series isn't popular.
 
Which I know, I'm questioning why that's the case when it just means it takes years for pages to get properly updated if the series isn't popular.
Moderators are usually more trusted in their ability to evaluate verses based on their understanding of the tiering system, though that's just my guess on why. Can't really trust random wiki users.
 
Moderators are usually more trusted in their ability to evaluate verses based on their understanding of the tiering system, though that's just my guess on why. Can't really trust random wiki users.
Prob but ultimately a page can always be reverted to the previous incarnation by mods. Threads for updates seem to be very slow when they could really just check on whatever is being updated atm and approve/deny it after a quick look-through.
 
Prob but ultimately a page can always be reverted to the previous incarnation by mods. Threads for updates seem to be very slow when they could really just check on whatever is being updated atm and approve/deny it after a quick look-through.
That's arguably a worst way. CRTs can still have people who are knowledgeable to discuss about it which influences the opinion of moderators regarding the discussion.
 
Do you either of you mind checking this out as a neutral party, since I'm pro 7-B and Tllm is anti 7-B?

@Da3ggman @Dalesean027
Da3ggman's only an image helper. The VS Staff you should look out for are Thread Moderators, Administrators, and Bureaucrats for CRTs. Though from the look of your CRT, these sources need to be calculated first and then confirmed by a CGM (Calculation Group Member) before this CRT can get accepted.
 
Da3ggman's only an image helper. The VS Staff you should look out for are Thread Moderators, Administrators, and Bureaucrats for CRTs. Though from the look of your CRT, these sources need to be calculated first and then confirmed by a CGM (Calculation Group Member) before this CRT can get accepted.
Only pinged em cause I was told to ask mods for help + they were active att. I have no experience with these sorts of calculations... No idea what I'd do with any of that.
 
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