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Goku's vacation is ruined (Goku vs Vincent Volaju)

BloodyBloodwork365

BloodyBloodwork365

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Pilaf Arc Goku vs Vincent Volaju.
Goku and friends are visiting Tokyo. A yellow truck drives over the Rainbow Bridge. Vincent walks out of the truck, and it explodes, alerting Goku and the others to his presence. Goku's friends go to evacuate the area, Goku himself confronts Vincent, who is, let's face it, extremely conspicuous with what he's wearing.
Both are in-character.
No prior knowledge.
Goku gets the Power Pole and Flying Nimbus (The Nimbus is how he got to Vincent before he could exit the scene, though the battle starts with both of them on-foot). Vincent gets his gun, his knife, and one nanomachine bomb.
They start 10m apart, on top of the bridge, with wrecked vehicles everywhere. The battle takes place during Noon.
Victory by death or K.O.

Goku: 3
Vincent:
Incon:
 
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So speed isn't equalized and Uh.
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Im not gonna sugarcoat it.
 
Fallen_Angelicx said:
So speed isn't equalized and Uh.


Im not gonna sugarcoat it.
Click to expand...
idk how that would work here, with Goku having faster combat speed and Vincent having faster reaction speed.

I knew there had to be something Goku could do lol. This also reminds me that I am having trouble finding the Senzu Beans in his profile, even though I am pretty sure he has them.
 
Looking into the Extinction Bomb further, I do wonder how it works. The nanomachines are effectively modified prions that mimic blood cells before attacking the brain. Goku getting that heart virus is basically a meme at this point but it shows he's not immune to every disease. So I wonder how it specifically works in all cases.
 
BloodyBloodwork365 said:
idk how that would work here, with Goku having faster combat speed and Vincent having faster reaction speed.
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Goku probably won't be fast enough to hit Vincent physically at all unless he gets offguarded but he should be able to catch him with a AOE Ki Blast or a Kamehameha.
BloodyBloodwork365 said:
Looking into the Extinction Bomb further, I do wonder how it works. The nanomachines are effectively modified prions that mimic blood cells before attacking the brain. Goku getting that heart virus is basically a meme at this point but it shows he's not immune to every disease. So I wonder how it specifically works in all cases.
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Im not sure either honestly, I hope supporters can give input, however Goku has insane senses and combat skill even as a kid, also superhuman senses.
 
Fallen_Angelicx said:
Goku probably won't be fast enough to hit Vincent physically at all unless he gets offguarded but he should be able to catch him with a AOE Ki Blast or a Kamehameha.

Im not sure either honestly, I hope supporters can give input, however Goku has insane senses and combat skill even as a kid, also superhuman senses.
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It's honestly funny to me that Vincent almost has his very own Extinction Bomb, if not for the much more limited range.

I need to know how that bomb works lol, we definitely need input. I think the senses will definitely help him maneuver around the nanobots for a time, so it feels like it comes down to whether or not he can resist this disease.
 
Now that I think about it, the Extinction Bomb specifically releases a supervirus, more similar to Monkey Business. With the nanomachines being modified prions, they're already radically different from the EB.
 
...Aaand I just realized that prions aren't covered by the Disease Manipulation page oof. They'd be even smaller than bacteria, and they're considered the deadliest kind of disease. They're mis-shapen proteins that mis-shape any proteins they come into contact with. Hell, if Fire can negate durability, these things might do so more efficiently.

Theoretically, any one of us could have it right now and wouldn't know until possibly years later, due to how slow it usually acts. What Vincent's possibly blowing up in Goku's face here is the super-ultra-turbocharged version of Prion Disease, and Goku, it seems, doesn't have feats of resisting something like that. Hence the need for supporters to clarify things.

Indeed, prions specifically might actually bypass typical Disease Resistance, since that can usually be easily implied to come from an ultra-strong immune system, like what the Saiyans probably have. The prions, by their nature, are IIRC completely invisible to one's immune system. Vincent's nanomachines, to be even more specific, mimic lymphocytes specifically so that the immune system can't spot them.

(On a side-note, what Vincent has within his own body are also prions, but they're designed specifically to constantly repair his body, hence his regeneration and resistance to disease manip. Cowboy Bebop is cool like that, having half-scientific explanations for crazy abilities a lot of the time lol)
 
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TegamiBachi25 said:
Goku can't die because of Bardock's wish so even if he gets infected, idk what would happen then

This is also kid goku. He never had proper ki control until training with Roshi shooting the kamehameha
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The nanomachines still screw up your brain, memory and senses, hence 'Victory by Death or K.O.' Goku probably doesn't outright die to the nanomachines, but the specific context for both his disease resistance and how the nanomachines work suggests they'd do what they normally do, and he'd just not die from it.
The order of operations would probably be:
1. Goku gets infected (Most likely by Vincent blowing up the bomb in his face, maybe grabbing his tail beforehand idk. Saiyans have no feats of resisting prions so this probably works).
2. Goku's brain gets messed up.
3. The nanomachines leave as they always do. Goku is rendered unconscious bc of the wish.
That would be Vincent's wincon, theoretically, compared to Goku's own wincons of:
1. Power Pole to the heart (It's going through Vincent no matter where Goku aims, but it needs to go through a vital organ for it to be a wincon)
2. Kamehameha
3. Maybe the AOE Ki blast.

He hasn't? Kamehameha is listed as something Goku can do even in the Pilaf Arc. I must be misreading this.
 
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Since I'm the OP, I'm not casting any votes. I'll lay out the wincons as I see them:

Vincent
Vincent's wincon is to blow up the nanomachine bomb in Goku's face. With his higher speed and the ability to potentially momentarily immobilize Goku by pulling his tail, this is possible. He would probably also do it upon noticing that his bullets, knife and punches do basically nothing to Goku (At least presumably they don't hurt him), making it a likely early move for him in-character. Vincent probably would also grab the tail. He specializes in grappling, would identify the tail as a potential weak point, and goes for weak points in-character. Saiyans have no feats (Or statements. The Extinction Bomb is specifically a virus.) of resisting Prion Disease, so Goku would likely be affected by the supercharged version Vincent has on his person. This wouldn't kill Goku, due to Bardock's wish, but K.O. would work.

Goku
Goku's wincon is relatively straightforward. He points the Power Pole at Vincent's heart, and extends it. The Power Pole is Relativistic, meaning Vincent will have no way to react to it (Nor can he aimdodge it, as he doesn't have knowledge of Goku's equipment or techniques). The main problem is that Goku needs to hit Vincent's heart specifically (Or his brain and lungs too ig, maybe his stomach), as anywhere else, and while it's still going straight through Vincent, he's just going to walk towards Goku like there isn't an atmosphere-length pole stabbing through his body. Using the Power Pole at all is seemingly pretty in-character for Goku, but he basically needs to use it like Gin's Bankai here if he wants to win, and he's going to have to figure that out, since he'd have no idea that Vincent has any regen to start with.

This is the only wincon Goku might have, as the omnidirectional Ki Blast might be too diluted by the vehicles and the square cube law to oneshot, especially with Vincent's regen (And assuming Vincent doesn't jump back, though it should presumably still hit him). The Kamehameha is absolutely oneshotting him, but the problem is how long it takes Goku to charge it. Vincent is going to see Goku telegraphing this move, and wouldn't hesitate to, like, shoot him. Goku does still feel pain from bullets at this point, so Vincent could potentially unironically break his focus by just shooting him, or simply rush him down while he's charging the Kamehameha, and go for his own wincon. Unlike the Power Pole, the Kamehameha is slow to charge, extremely telegraphed and extremely obvious in how dangerous it could be, so Vincent wouldn't just stand there and let Goku charge it.

Also, to specify fully about the Flying Nimbus: It's nearby. Goku hopped off it to confront Vincent and get a small reading on him, and then the fight starts. If Goku thinks he needs to stay out of range, he could potentially go to the Nimbus. Vincent could potentially just throw the bomb and then shoot it, as he's still much faster than even the Nimbus, but I still think the senses + Nimbus could help Goku out tremendously here.

Finally, while including the Ozaru might've been funny, I just think it makes this a stomp...in Vincent's favor. All Goku gains is the ability to oneshot Vincent...which he already had, and in exchange he sacrifices his wincon due to losing his intelligence. Vincent can, far as I can tell, legit just dodge everything Ozaru Goku does until the Sun comes back up. The city is in ruins from the rampage, and Goku is potentially disoriented and exhausted enough for Vincent to just go in for his wincon (Assuming Ozaru Goku didn't accidentally breathe in the nanomachines earlier). Goku ironically has a much better chance in his weaker form, due to his skills and caution.

Also, seriously, does Goku actually not have Senzu Beans in this key?
 
What's the range for the bombs and is that a starting movie for Vincent? If not, I fail to see how Vincent doesn't get KO'd by Goku in a couple of seconds. As for the disease from the bomb, how fast does it act? this is even assuming it works on Goku, which I am more inclined to say it doesn't. Saiyans are immune to the extinction bomb which are made to specifically target a species and I assume that the tech in DB is more advance in DB (correct me if I'm wrong) so something like Vincent's bomb shouldn't really do anything.
 
OriginFox said:
What's the range for the bombs and is that a starting movie for Vincent? If not, I fail to see how Vincent doesn't get KO'd by Goku in a couple of seconds. As for the disease from the bomb, how fast does it act? this is even assuming it works on Goku, which I am more inclined to say it doesn't. Saiyans are immune to the extinction bomb which are made to specifically target a species and I assume that the tech in DB is more advance in DB (correct me if I'm wrong) so something like Vincent's bomb shouldn't really do anything.
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The nanomachines themselves can spread quite far, larger bombs are able to potentially cover kilometers when detonated. With the speeds here, his strategy would probably be to pull Goku's tail (While he wouldn't know this is Goku's weakness specifically, he can and does go to cause immense pain to his opponents specifically to debilitate them, and Goku's tail is gonna stick out like...a tail) and go to detonate the bomb directly in his face.

It isn't normally a starting move, but it would be among the first things he does here, after other methods fail to do meaningful damage.

I'm getting mixed signals here, with how the strength and speed advantages work. On one hand, you say that Vincent would die or be knocked out (Presumably the former, unless Goku inexplicably holds back against this dude he senses zero Ki from) in seconds, on the other, other people are saying that Goku can't even hit him without a charged Kamehameha or omnidirectional Ki blast.

The disease acts this quickly. Some people were able to survive it longer, specifically when put on life support, but Lee died within about a minute or so, his mental facaulties rapidly destroyed the entire time.

The Extinction bomb is a virus, while Vincent's nanomachines are proteins, more like prions than anything else. They don't operate remotely similarly even on a base level, and thus I would consider it an NLF to say that Goku would be immune to it (Especially since Goku isn't even immune to all viruses, and prions are far more dangerous on a base level than viruses), and these nanomachines specifically disguise themselves as lymphocytes to completely bypass the immune system. Dragon Ball tech should be more advanced than Cowboy Bebop tech on average (Unless Space Dandy complicates things, though IIRC that takes place long after Cowboy Bebop), but advancement alone doesn't mean much when we're essentially comparing apples to oranges as far as the two bioweapons are concerned. It'd be like saying someone who resists Monkey Business (A different extinction-level bioweapon in CB) could also resist the nanomachines, even though they're fundamentally different.

Also, it doesn't seem like the Extinction Bomb's specifics or mechanics were ever explained, meaning the standard assumption would be that it's just an ultra-juiced-up virus, which is still easier for an immune system to respond to than any prions, let alone ones that are programmed to actively try to hide.
 
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BloodyBloodwork365 said:
The nanomachines themselves can spread quite far, larger bombs are able to potentially cover kilometers when detonated. With the speeds here, his strategy would probably be to pull Goku's tail (While he wouldn't know this is Goku's weakness specifically, he can and does go to cause immense pain to his opponents specifically to debilitate them, and Goku's tail is gonna stick out like...a tail) and go to detonate the bomb directly in his face.

It isn't normally a starting move, but it would be among the first things he does here, after other methods fail to do meaningful damage.

I'm getting mixed signals here, with how the strength and speed advantages work. On one hand, you say that Vincent would die or be knocked out (Presumably the former, unless Goku inexplicably holds back against this dude he senses zero Ki from) in seconds, on the other, other people are saying that Goku can't even hit him without a charged Kamehameha or omnidirectional Ki blast.

The disease acts this quickly. Some people were able to survive it longer, specifically when put on life support, but Lee died within about a minute or so, his mental facaulties rapidly destroyed the entire time.

The Extinction bomb is a virus, while Vincent's nanomachines are proteins, more like prions than anything else. They don't operate remotely similarly even on a base level, and thus I would consider it an NLF to say that Goku would be immune to it (Especially since Goku isn't even immune to all viruses, and prions are far more dangerous on a base level than viruses), and these nanomachines specifically disguise themselves as lymphocytes to completely bypass the immune system. Dragon Ball tech should be more advanced than Cowboy Bebop tech on average (Unless Space Dandy complicates things, though IIRC that takes place long after Cowboy Bebop), but advancement alone doesn't mean much when we're essentially comparing apples to oranges as far as the two bioweapons are concerned. It'd be like saying someone who resists Monkey Business (A different extinction-level bioweapon in CB) could also resist the nanomachines, even though they're fundamentally different.

Also, it doesn't seem like the Extinction Bomb's specifics or mechanics were ever explained, meaning the standard assumption would be that it's just an ultra-juiced-up virus, which is still easier for an immune system to respond to than any prions, let alone ones that are programmed to actively try to hide.
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I feel like you are giving Vincent too much credit here. Goku's tail is a weakness sure, but why would he assume it's some sort of weak point compared to anything else. This is assuming Goku would even be open to him grabbing his tail considering Goku has the AP and combat speed advantage.

I can see why people are saying that since Vincent does have the higher reaction speed, but I doubt it'll be useful since Goku has the higher combat speed and he also has the power pole which would give Goku the speed advantage. Goku doesn't know how to sense ki in this key.

I can concede on some points regarding the extinction bomb, but I would still argue Goku wouldn't be affected as quickly from the disease.

So Goku has the AP and combat speed advantage while Vincent has reaction speed advantage which can be countered via the power pole which Goku is most likely to use when he realizes he can't close the gap to hit Vincent alone. Vincent has the bomb/disease, but not likely he'll have enough time to deploy it or before Goku knocks him out.
 
OriginFox said:
I feel like you are giving Vincent too much credit here. Goku's tail is a weakness sure, but why would he assume it's some sort of weak point compared to anything else. This is assuming Goku would even be open to him grabbing his tail considering Goku has the AP and combat speed advantage.

I can see why people are saying that since Vincent does have the higher reaction speed, but I doubt it'll be useful since Goku has the higher combat speed and he also has the power pole which would give Goku the speed advantage. Goku doesn't know how to sense ki in this key.

I can concede on some points regarding the extinction bomb, but I would still argue Goku wouldn't be affected as quickly from the disease.

So Goku has the AP and combat speed advantage while Vincent has reaction speed advantage which can be countered via the power pole which Goku is most likely to use when he realizes he can't close the gap to hit Vincent alone. Vincent has the bomb/disease, but not likely he'll have enough time to deploy it or before Goku knocks him out.
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Vincent's never seen someone with a tail before (Unless I'm missing something from the Watanabe Universe), I imagine it'd stick out.

The speed in general is really weird.

Theoretically Goku should last longer, I just thought it was an NLF to say he'd be immune to something that's not even a virus or anything similar (Like a Bacteria), when he isn't even immune to all viruses lol.

You are the first person aside from me to mention the Power Pole lmao. Does Goku not jab people with that thing in-character? It feels like a decently logical strategy against someone so fast, hence why I think it's Goku's clearest wincon.
 
BloodyBloodwork365 said:
Vincent's never seen someone with a tail before (Unless I'm missing something from the Watanabe Universe), I imagine it'd stick out.

The speed in general is really weird.

Theoretically Goku should last longer, I just thought it was an NLF to say he'd be immune to something that's not even a virus or anything similar (Like a Bacteria), when he isn't even immune to all viruses lol.

You are the first person aside from me to mention the Power Pole lmao. Does Goku not jab people with that thing in-character? It feels like a decently logical strategy against someone so fast, hence why I think it's Goku's clearest wincon.
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It would stick out, sure, but no real reason to assume it's a weakness and not just another part of the body. I agree that it is NFL to say he would be immune, but his natural resistant/blessed should at least account for something.

Goku uses the power pole extensively in Dragon Ball so him using it as leverage for speed and as a weapon isn't out of character.

Voting Goku
 
OriginFox said:
It would stick out, sure, but no real reason to assume it's a weakness and not just another part of the body. I agree that it is NFL to say he would be immune, but his natural resistant/blessed should at least account for something.

Goku uses the power pole extensively in Dragon Ball so him using it as leverage for speed and as a weapon isn't out of character.

Voting Goku
Click to expand...
Fair enough, I suppose.

Yeah, figured.

Counted.
 
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