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Altair(Pre-God)
Lady Bone Demon
Inconclusive:1
Distance: 10 meters
Speed Equalize
Altair's 1-A Empowerment is restricted
SBA for the rest
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A Story of Fate (Altair{Re:Creators} vs Lady Bone Demon{Lego Monkie Kid}) 0-0-1
- Thread starter MysticBrawler
- Start date
Altair(Pre-God)
Lady Bone Demon
Inconclusive:1
Distance: 10 meters
Speed Equalize
Altair's 1-A Empowerment is restricted
SBA for the rest
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Bump
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Altair has 1-A haxs, and resist at most all of LBD's haxs
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I'm using Pre-God Altair whose Holopsicon only goes up to Low 1-C, and most of Lady Bone Demon's hax are layered so there's no issue there.
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She still has 1-A haxs
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She has only type 5 in true form
Mbpoops
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Ic mball, 1 layer info 2 aswell as 1-A hax still stomps
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I don't disagree with stomp
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The only hax listed as 1-A for her Pre-God key is her Empowerment which is completely separate from her Holopsicon abilities, as such the potency of her Empowerment ability doesn't transfer to any of her other abilities so they would still be Low 1-C. But if this really is that big of an issue then I'll just restrict this ability so that this matchup can work.
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Lady Bone Demon's Chaos Physiology and her Fate Physiology both give her 1 layer resistance to Information Manipulation so there's no problem there.
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Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,375
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icic, how does she get around 1-A hax
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I already restricted it so there is no need to worry about that.
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Is there anything that can help LBDs counter these feats?
Plot Manipulation (Passive & 1 Layer - Her power is to revise the Plot. Can passively hijack plot from the control of the creators and make it work for her as she is the Main Character/Hero chosen by the audience even amongst the most favored heroes and villains. She was even stated to control the destinies of all the characters in the birdcage story
Plot Manipulation (Passive & 1 Layer - Her power is to revise the Plot. Can passively hijack plot from the control of the creators and make it work for her as she is the Main Character/Hero chosen by the audience even amongst the most favored heroes and villains. She was even stated to control the destinies of all the characters in the birdcage story
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Lady Bone Demon's does have Reactive Evolution which allows her to develop layers for her abilities, so she can probably adapt to this since she already has resistance to Plot Manipulation on top of having her own Plot Manipulation which has 3 layers.
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Proof LBD has 3 layer plot manipulation
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- Enhanced Sealing, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Plot Manipulation, Information Manipulation (Type 2), Death Manipulation, Power Nullification and Reality Warping (Thought-Based - 5D - 3 Layers - has sealed Macaque twice here<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lady_Bone_Demon#cite_note-The_Winning_Side_-_Episode_4_Season_3-7"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a> and here<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lady_Bone_Demon#cite_note-Benched_-_Episode_8_Season_3-17"><span>[</span>17<span>]</span></a>)
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LBD RE needs to be immediately resistance if it doesn't want to be affected by the 1-layer plot hax.
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Well it doesn't seem like Altair's Plot Manipulation would be immediately detrimental Lady Bone Demon based on the former's scans, so I don't think the latter will have too much trouble with this.
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Yes and no.
While the empowerment is a passive thing that Altair doesn't "use" consciously and it is separate from the Holopsicon abilities. However, it impacts both her power level and abilities greatly given its the very reason why Altair gains new powers or resistances or layers. It is quite literally the reason why Holopsicon exists in the first place.
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Then this is just going to be a casual match that won't get added anywhere.
But aside from this, I don't see anything how they'll interact with Acausality type 5, or respond to Duplication or Power Mimicry.
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I was under the impression that abilities can be restricted if they're in another tier as said here:
- An exception would be if the restricted ability/technique has a separate tier from the main one, and is one the character can consciously restrict themselves from using. In this case, the match can be added.
Lady Bone Demon does have this:
- Fire Manipulation, Durability Negation, Existence Erasure, Soul Erasure, Enhanced Soul Damage/Destruction (2 Layers), Thought/Mind Erasure, Energy Manipulation, Space-Time Manipulation, Reality Warping, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Plot Manipulation, Information Manipulation (Type 2), Data Manipulation, Beyond-Dimensional Erasure (Type 1), Enhanced Non-Physical Interaction (1 Layer), Immortality (Type 2 and 5) Negation and Statistics Amplification (5D - Has the powers of the Samadhi Fire)
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This is the important part. Its not a hax or weapon she can use or not choose to use. It's something she has no control over.
This isn't about "Watching Her" fight. At any given point in time, people are either writing or drawing about her. People subconsciously believe in her whether or not they can see her fighting. This belief ties into this thing, which is why no one could mess with her plot or info to depower and nullify her as the Vox Populi wouldn’t allow this to happen at all.
A simple way around this is to either nuke the Real World or Mind Hax all the people simultaneously into believing Altair is weak or powerless or doesn't exist.
None of it is interacting with Acausality Type 5 unless there is feats of interaction shown by the character in question.
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Hmm I see, so restricting it isn't an option then.
Well Lady Bone Demon does have the hax to do both of these but I don't think she would think of doing the Mind hax thing since she doesn't know anything about the mechanics of Altair's powers/physiology, so I don't think the latter can be used as a wincon.
Hmm, I see so I guess the only chance for Lady Bone Demon to win this is to either destroy the real world(which she can do using the Samadhi Fire) or incapacitate Altair's avatar body(which she can do using this- Enhanced Sealing, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Plot Manipulation, Information Manipulation (Type 2), Death Manipulation, Power Nullification and Reality Warping (Thought-Based - 5D - 3 Layers - has sealed Macaque twice here<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lady_Bone_Demon#cite_note-The_Winning_Side_-_Episode_4_Season_3-7"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a> and here<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lady_Bone_Demon#cite_note-Benched_-_Episode_8_Season_3-17"><span>[</span>17<span>]</span></a>).
Lady Bone Demon also resists all of Altair's Holopsicon abilities so this can probably turn into a stalemate at worst.
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Her powers is included Logic Manipulation
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destroying the real world has absolutely no effect on altair(assuming it can be destroyed) altair has made different avatars before. destroying them doesnt effect her in a battle. and no this is not a stalemate. altair has a massive wincon. which is literally just her actual ability that being returning things to their absolute origin, given theres sba. everything in existence came from a source, her ability to make things return to that source is unbypassable
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Let me rephrase that: Lady Bone Demon resists all of Altair's offensive hax and those that she doesn't resist she can counter with with her own abilities.. Also Altair's Fate Reconstruction ability seems to be a defensive one as the only time it was used was in the penultimate episode in a non-combat scenario, so while this would be helpful to her it doesn't really seem like an ability that she can use to win a fight.Her powers is included Logic Manipulation
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Holopsicon is only Low 1-C and Lady Bone Demon resists like 90-95% of the abilities associated with it so I don't think it will be an issue.Holy hax diff, r we forgetting how strong holopsicon is. its called shinrabansho for a reason
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Ok then, would you mind telling me what among her abilities you think she can use here to get the win? And please don't say her 1-A hax as like I said earlier the only one among her abilities that's listed as 1-A is her Empowerment which is just a support ability that's separate from her Holopsicon abilities.
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One thing to keep in mind about Lady Bone Demon is that she actually has 2 Blitz level speed amps and 1 attack speed amp as shown here:
higher with Golden Power (Blitz - Comparable to Sun Wukong who can perception blitz characters with Golden Power as MK in base form couldn't perceive Wukong's fight with Lady Bone Demon at all.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/M...te-Embrace_Your_Destiny_-_Season_3_Special-18"><span>[</span>18<span>]</span></a> Able to move so fast that it perceive Peng and Yellowtusk as frozen<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/M..._note-The_Brotherhood_-_Episode_8_Season_4-35"><span>[</span>35<span>]</span></a> despite they are comparable to base MK and Macaque's speed. Went into comparable speed to Wukong amped by Golden Power<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/MK_(Lego_Monkie_Kid)#cite_note-Sacrifice_-_Episode_9_Season_5-26"><span>[</span>26<span>]</span></a>), even higher with Chaos (Blitz - Same reasoning as Xiang Liu), higher Attack Speed with Golden Staff sealing (Blitz - Several characters couldn’t react to it including the ones amped by Golden Power when casted here,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/M...note-The_Winning_Side_-_Episode_4_Season_3-14"><span>[</span>14<span>]</span></a> here,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/MK_(Lego_Monkie_Kid)#cite_note-Benched_-_Episode_8_Season_3-47"><span>[</span>47<span>]</span></a> here,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/M...ote-Pitiful_Creatures_-_Episode_7_Season_4-27"><span>[</span>27<span>]</span></a> and here<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/MK_(Lego_Monkie_Kid)#cite_note-Sacrifice_-_Episode_9_Season_5-26"><span>[</span>26<span>]</span></a>)
Which when coupled with the fact that all of her go-to abilities are thought-based means that she'll always land her attacks first, so she can probably win this via incapacitation by continuously killing her avatar body.
higher with Golden Power (Blitz - Comparable to Sun Wukong who can perception blitz characters with Golden Power as MK in base form couldn't perceive Wukong's fight with Lady Bone Demon at all.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/M...te-Embrace_Your_Destiny_-_Season_3_Special-18"><span>[</span>18<span>]</span></a> Able to move so fast that it perceive Peng and Yellowtusk as frozen<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/M..._note-The_Brotherhood_-_Episode_8_Season_4-35"><span>[</span>35<span>]</span></a> despite they are comparable to base MK and Macaque's speed. Went into comparable speed to Wukong amped by Golden Power<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/MK_(Lego_Monkie_Kid)#cite_note-Sacrifice_-_Episode_9_Season_5-26"><span>[</span>26<span>]</span></a>), even higher with Chaos (Blitz - Same reasoning as Xiang Liu), higher Attack Speed with Golden Staff sealing (Blitz - Several characters couldn’t react to it including the ones amped by Golden Power when casted here,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/M...note-The_Winning_Side_-_Episode_4_Season_3-14"><span>[</span>14<span>]</span></a> here,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/MK_(Lego_Monkie_Kid)#cite_note-Benched_-_Episode_8_Season_3-47"><span>[</span>47<span>]</span></a> here,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/M...ote-Pitiful_Creatures_-_Episode_7_Season_4-27"><span>[</span>27<span>]</span></a> and here<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/MK_(Lego_Monkie_Kid)#cite_note-Sacrifice_-_Episode_9_Season_5-26"><span>[</span>26<span>]</span></a>)
Which when coupled with the fact that all of her go-to abilities are thought-based means that she'll always land her attacks first, so she can probably win this via incapacitation by continuously killing her avatar body.
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Bump
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yeah and where it scales has nothing to do with her actual ability. it doesnt matter if holopsicon had 1-A feats or low 1-C feats or whatever. She still has the same hax as before just to a greater extent. and no she doesnt resist 90-95% of the abilities you stated. as i will show.
cm1, yes i know LBD has cm1 aswell, but its not to the same extent as cm1 in re:creators.
existence erasure, nothing can bypass this under sba because of recreators cosmology
mind manipulation, all of her hax should at minimum have 2 layers to them
fate manip, LBD doesnt have res against ts
probability manip, again doesnt have res against this
power null, LBD only has 1 layer of res
the thing that started the series in the first place, bfr , LBD has no res against it
Transmutation, LBD has no res against it
Power mimicry, LBD has no res against it
Attack reflection, no res
Vector manipulation, no res
i could go on, theres still plenty of haxes she has left but i think you get the point. any one of these r an easy wincon for her.
and also none of LBDs haxs would work on her specifically since it requires that she possess those specific attributes that LBD can manipulate, and this wont work since altair has nep and ae, acaus type 5 which all counteract every ability she can and will try
i think you misunderstood her avatars. she can do anything completely fine without them. the whole point of the avatars was to create irrationality within the real world. its not something shes entirely contingent on. this can literally be seen when altair was wiped out by sirius. she can act without needing avatars.
also she should have imm speed by default because of reasons i wont get into rn but a alternative explanation is that idk why its only in post god altair, even though post god only accounts for like the last 2 episodes, when the hounds were introduced n transcended by altair like almost near the beginning of the series. so yh they r relative in speed.
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Actually it is as seen in Lady Bone Demon's Fate Physiology page:
Abstract Existence (Type 1: Conceptual Fate [Type 1] - Fate/Destiny in LMK is considered as a concept due to governing the entire universe’s reality.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...d)#cite_note-Harbinger-_Episode_10_Season_5-1"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a> Even directly shows that Nüwa’s power (who is referred as the Goddess of Destiny<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...d)#cite_note-Sacrifice_-_Episode_9_Season_5-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a>) affects reality itself as attempts at destabilizing/destroying it would result in the universe’s reality being destroyed here,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...note-The_Jade_Emperor_-_Episode_10_Season_4-3"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a> here,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...note-The_Emperor's_Wrath_-_Season_4_Special-4"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a> here<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...note-The_Emperor's_Wrath_-_Season_4_Special-4"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a> and here.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...Kid)#cite_note-The_Cage-_Episode_8_Season_5-5"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></a> The only way for the universe’s reality being maintained/restored, is controlling the power of Fate/Destiny here,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...note-The_Emperor's_Wrath_-_Season_4_Special-4"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a> here,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...Kid)#cite_note-The_Cage-_Episode_8_Season_5-5"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></a> here<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...d)#cite_note-Sacrifice_-_Episode_9_Season_5-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a> and here.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...d)#cite_note-Harbinger-_Episode_10_Season_5-1"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a> Xiang Liu also mentioned that he wants to get rid of Fate/Destiny<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...Kid)#cite_note-The_Cage-_Episode_8_Season_5-5"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></a> which results in the entire universe being destroyed.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...d)#cite_note-Sacrifice_-_Episode_9_Season_5-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a> Fate should be Type 1 as despite the universe’s reality being destroyed by the Primordial Chaos, the power of Fate grows stronger instead and needs MK to control it before it gets too powerful.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...Kid)#cite_note-The_Cage-_Episode_8_Season_5-5"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></a> Same situation happened here<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...note-The_Emperor's_Wrath_-_Season_4_Special-4"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a> as it needed a seal to contain it and also stated that the power of Fate came from the Chaos Beyond.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...Kid)#cite_note-The_Cage-_Episode_8_Season_5-5"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></a> And since Lady Bone Demon has the power of Fate due to having the same power as MK, stated that LBD wants to destroy the entire world<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...ote-Embrace_Your_Destiny_-_Season_3_Special-6"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></a> alongside Chaos with the Samadhi Fire,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...ote-Embrace_Your_Destiny_-_Season_3_Special-6"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></a> the same weapon that can burn through the very fabric of reality,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...ote-Embrace_Your_Destiny_-_Season_3_Special-6"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></a> and would have survived after complete erasure of the universe and everything beyond it as she will create an entirely new world where chaos doesn’t exists here<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...ote-Embrace_Your_Destiny_-_Season_3_Special-6"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></a> and here.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...ote-Embrace_Your_Destiny_-_Season_3_Special-6"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></a> And to further back it up, She said she's doing all this because of Fate instructing her multiple times here,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...note-This_is_the_End!_-_Episode_10_Season_2-7"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a> here<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...ote-Embrace_Your_Destiny_-_Season_3_Special-6"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></a> and here.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...ote-Embrace_Your_Destiny_-_Season_3_Special-6"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></a> It’s also the only power that can prevent The Primordial Chaos from completely crushing the entire universe here,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...note-The_Emperor's_Wrath_-_Season_4_Special-4"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a> here<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...e_note-Collar_the_King_-_Episode_2_Season_5-8"><span>[</span>8<span>]</span></a> and here<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...Kid)#cite_note-The_Cage-_Episode_8_Season_5-5"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></a>)
And Lady Bone Demon's Samadhi Fire gives her 8 Layers of Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation so this won't work.
Lady Bone Demon's Fate Physiology and Chaos Physiology both give her 1 layer of resistance to Void Manipulation so this won't work.
After absorbing Monkie Kid's powers Lady Bone Demon gained 5 layers of resistance to Mind Manipulation so this won't work.
Lady Bone Demon's Chaos Physiology gives her resistance to Fate Manipulation as seen here:
- Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Fate Manipulation, Plot Manipulation, Information Manipulation (Type 2) and Data Manipulation (Mentioned by Xiang Liu that the Chaos power gives people freedom to do their own choice<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/C...id)#cite_note-The_Cage_-_Episode_8_Season_5-1"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a> just to defy destiny itself<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/C...id)#cite_note-The_Cage_-_Episode_8_Season_5-1"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a>)
This one is covered by her resistance to Fate Manipulation so this won't be a problem. Plus this seems to be a primarily defensive ability considering the only times Altair used Probability Manipulation was to escape Selesia's Ionion Aphoria, and to find a possibility where she becomes Sirius.
Lady Bone Demon's Fate Physiology gives her this:
- Restoration (Fate users such as MK and Sun Wukong has shown able to restore their power after being nullified<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...#cite_note-On_The_Run_-_Episode_1_Season_3-13"><span>[</span>13<span>]</span></a> or stolen.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...id)#cite_note-Macaque_-_Episode_9_Season_1-14"><span>[</span>14<span>]</span></a> Despite after Nezha negated all of<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...#cite_note-On_The_Run_-_Episode_1_Season_3-13"><span>[</span>13<span>]</span></a> Sun Wukong's immortalities,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...note-This_is_the_End!_-_Episode_10_Season_2-7"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a> Sun Wukong was able to restore all of it back<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/F...cite_note-Smartie_Kid_-_Episode_3_Season_3-15"><span>[</span>15<span>]</span></a>)
Lady Bone Demon has Interdimensional range with her Teleportation so this won't work on her.
Altair's Transmutation is a sub-ability derived from her Information Manipulation. With that said since Lady Bone Demon resists Altair's Information Manipulation then this ability won't work on Lady Bone Demon either.
I don't see what good this would do for Altair considering Lady Bone Demon already resists all of her own abilities.
Same as the above
If your talking about Selesia's Ionion Aphoria then 1)She was never shown using this ability so it's very unlikely for this to come up, 2)Even if Altair does think of using this Lady Bone Demon resists every other aspect of Ionion Aphoria so chances are this won't work on her, 3)Assuming that this somehow does end up working on Lady Bone Demon she can easily break out of it by destroying the Ionion Aphoria pocket dimension using her Samadhi Fire.
Literally none of Altair's abilities that you listed would work as wincons against Lady Bone Demon so I highly doubt that.
Acausality(Type 5) is only for Altair's True Form which is completely irrelevant as it's completely featless, and has never been shown to be capable of interacting with anything while in this state as supported by how she needs to make an avatar body to be capable of interacting within worlds.
This assumption of yours is completely unsupported and is in fact contradicted by several of her abilities descriptions such as:
- Incorporeality (Altair’s true form is a Story, and she uses Physical Image as a way to physically interact within the Worlds)
- Unconventional Resurrection & Possession (Even as a completely non-existent entity, Altair was guided by the collective approval of the audience connected to the Imaginative Force to win by possessing Sirius and resurrecting as Altair 2.0/Sirius Reborn despite her existence coefficient still remaining 0<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Altair_(Re:Creators)#cite_note-95"><span>[</span>95<span>]</span></a>)
Altair having Immeasurable speed wouldn't really change anything as Lady Bone Demon also has Immeasurable speed as shown here:
Immeasurable (Able to dodge Sun Wukong's attack<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/L...enge_of_the_Spider_Queen_-_Season_2_Special-3"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a>), higher with Golden Power (Blitz - Same reasoning as MK. Able to perception blitz base MK when fighting Wukong amped by Golden Power<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/L...ote-Embrace_Your_Destiny_-_Season_3_Special-1"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a>), even higher with Chaos (Blitz - Same reasoning as Xiang Liu), higher Attack Speed with Golden Staff sealing (Blitz - Same reasoning as MK)
So Lady Bone Demon would still end up outspeeding Altair either way.
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By using her own Duplication ability which she got from absorbing Monkie Kid's powers.
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And all those copies will have that too. It's not a counter. It'll ultimately spiral into an incon because both sides will keep increasing their numbers, all of whom have the same hax and resistances.
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Well I did say that this would end up being a stalemate at worst.
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