Huge Enel downgrade

[Slav]

Enel's profile has 2 calculations from his cover-story as a way to scale him, both of which I believe to be illogical and incoherent.

The first argues that Enel's lightning caused a crater on the Moon.

This is however untrue, as the uncropped image tells us that this hole has been dug up by the space pirates, not by Enel's lightnings. We do also see an explosion caused by the space pirates that sends some debris flying right before that at this same location which is likely what dug up that hole.

The second calculation is of the Moon's explosion as recollected by one of the Automatas. Enel's page claims he scales to it via destroying a tool that "withstood it's full-might" with a CRT assuming that this very tool is what caused the explosion to begin with.

There are a lot of issues with this. Immediately we are never told or shown what devices were used to cause these explosions let alone that some random machine was the source for it. The machine we see Enel destroy is clearly not what caused the explosion since it has a wheel and a drill attatched to it which would suggest it's just something they use for digging and not an explosive.

The explosion recollected by the lone automata is not the same as the explosion Enel saw.

The timeline: The automatas see the large explosion on the Moon and decide to fly up to the Moon using balloons. ( A trip that'd possibly take them months and possibly years to accomplish considering the accepted distance between the Blue Planet and the Moon. ) They fight the space pirates and are defeated which powered them off for an unknown amount of time, until they're eventually found by Enel and he powers them back on. Afterward Enel sees an explosion nearby, which prompts him to go to that location and fight the space pirates.

There is no basis that those 2 explosions were caused by the same kind of explosives, let alone that they are equally powerful.

1. We see the explosions clearly differ visually and even having 2 different sound-effects implying that they're produced by different kinds of devices.

2. The explosion the automatas saw is also obviously far more powerful as it lifted a massive amount of dust all over the place. The explosion Enel saw barely lifted any dust, and it only caused a very small crater, with said crater having an accepted calculation for it's size already.

3. We see the explosion Enel caused seems to be much smaller since the spot Enel saw the explosion from was within visible range from the spaceship and machine that arrived at the explosion sight.

The machine Enel destroyed was only present at the sight of the much weaker explosion ( we don't know if it was there at the time of the explosion or if it was placed by the large space pirate after that ) and there is no basis that it can withstand the full might of the explosion the automata recalled. Its not very fair to say it automatically scales to a greater explosive.

There is nothing to justify that Enel jumped from low 7-B all the way to high 6-A. The evidence is too weak, if not outright non-existent.

I suggest that we just remove Enel's 6-A key.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Shouldn't this be posted in the Calc group discussion section?

 

[Slav]

Shouldn't this be posted in the Calc group discussion section?

This thread is more about Enel not scaling to having scaling to these feats and less about their validity, I think a ctr is more appropriate

 

[Kachon123]

The explosion came from these excavation tools

This is a fact because the title of this volume was "He who killed the doctor: a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do". The automata went up to the moon after the doctor died from choking after shock of seeing the massive moon explosion. Them claiming that they're confronting the cause of the doctor's death tells us that the excavation tools near the space pirate are what created the explosion.

I strongly disagree.

 

[Saqphire]

This thread is more about Enel not scaling to having scaling to these feats and less about their validity, I think a ctr is more appropriate

That’s if the calcs were valid but the scaling isn’t. You’re actively arguing for why the calcs aren’t valid and that requires a CGM thread

 

[Kachon123]

That’s if the calcs were valid but the scaling isn’t. You’re actively arguing for why the calcs aren’t valid and that requires a CGM thread

What are you talking about. Slav is literally only tackling Enel scaling to the tool, not the validity of the calc. Please reread the OP.

 

[Slav]

The explosion came from these excavation tools

This is a fact because the title of this volume was "He who killed the doctor: a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do". The automata went up to the moon after the doctor died from choking after shock of seeing the massive moon explosion. Them claiming that they're confronting the cause of the doctor's death tells us that the excavation tools near the space pirate is what created the explosion.

I strongly disagree.

Nowhere in this quote does it say the machine with a wheel and a drill attatched to it is what caused the explosion. only that they went to fight the space pirates to avenge the doctor. so this is a whole non sequitor

 

[Saqphire]

What are you talking about. Slav is literally only tackling Enel scaling to the tool, not the validity of the calc. Please reread the OP.

This part is for a CGM thread gng

Id suggest we remove or change the current calculation for the time being since the claim that Enel was the one performing the feat was the reason it's assumed to have been done through vaporization, but that can be done in a seperate thread. No profiles will be affected by this change.

But other than that I agree with the second part, the tools that ”withstood the full brunt of the explosion” aren’t as wide as it so they don’t fully scale to it, that requires an inverse square law factor to be added to it to find their durability yield and Enel destroying those tools would scale to their durability yield there

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

The timeline: The automatas see the large explosion on the Moon and decide to fly up to the Moon using balloons. ( A trip that'd possibly take them months and possibly years to accomplish considering the accepted distance between the Blue Planet and the Moon. )

So.... About 700 000km by balloon? Even if the balloon was indestructible so that it can go as high up without exploding, how did it reach escape velocity? Even if it did how would it travel through space to the moon? Oda be playing hide and seek with logic.

They fight the space pirates and are defeated which powered them off for an unknown amount of time, until they're eventually found by Enel and he powers them back on. Afterward Enel sees an explosion nearby, which prompts him to go to that location and fight the space pirates.

There is no basis that those 2 explosions were caused by the same kind of explosives, let alone that they are equally powerful.

1. We see the explosions clearly differ visually and even having 2 different sound-effects implying that they're produced by different kinds of devices.

2. The explosion the automatas saw is also obviously far more powerful as it lifted a massive amount of dust all over the place. The explosion Enel saw barely lifted any dust, and it only caused a very small crater, with said crater having an accepted calculation for it's size already.

3. We see the explosion Enel caused seems to be much smaller since the spot Enel saw the explosion from was within visible range from the spaceship and machine that arrived at the explosion sight.

With all this information it's going to be more fair to only scale the explosion Enel saw to what it has shown being able to do, and not to another unseen explosive.

Final note: The machine we see Enel destroy is clearly not what caused the explosion since it has a wheel and a drill attatched to it which would suggest it's just something they use for digging and not an explosive. It'd also only scale to the much weaker explosion, assuming it was present at the time of the explosion and that it was hit point-blank, and not the much stronger one.

There is nothing to justify that Enel jumped from low 7-B all the way to high 6-A. The evidence is too weak, if not outright non-existent.

I suggest that we just remove Enel's 6-A key.

Can't Enel simply short circuit the machine, damaging it without actually scaling to the machine's durability anyways? Or heat it up so it became a easy to bend? Why would he need to scale to the machine's durability regardless of it being or not the actual machine that causes the explosion?
Honest question.

 

[Kachon123]

Nowhere in this quote does it say the machine with a wheel and a drill attatched to it is what caused the explosion. only that they went to fight the space pirates to avenge the doctor. so this is a whole non sequitor

"He who killed the doctor"

The pirate didn't literally kill the doctor. We know how he died. It was because he saw the moon explosion. The machine with a wheel and a drill attached is not caused the massive explosion, it was this one:

 

[Slav]

"He who killed the doctor"

The pirate didn't literally kill the doctor. We know how he died. It was because he saw the moon explosion. The machine with a wheel and a drill attached is not caused the massive explosion, it was this one:

they view the space pirate captain as responsible. thats not proof that the random machine enel destroyed is the explosive that caused the large explosion or that it has scaling to the massive explosion the automata recollected. this is a non sequitor

 

[Saqphire]

Yeah nah the evidence isn’t compelling enough. The man who killed the doctor only proves that he’s the guy who did the explosion, the tools he used for it isn’t proven at all

 

[EtherealCrater]

Even if whatever caused the explosion is no longer present; the machinery that is well within the epicenter is, meaning that their durability scales to the yield of the explosion.

I disagree with the proposed changes.

 

[Slav]

Even if whatever caused the explosion is no longer present; the machinery that is well within the epicenter is, meaning that their durability scales to the yield of the explosion.

I disagree with the proposed changes.

There is nothing to suggest there was any machine that was hit by the explosion that the automatas recalled, let alone that it was at it's epicenter. It'd also make no sense for them to detonate such a gigantic explosion near their machinery.

 

[YmTheSuper]

Even if whatever caused the explosion is no longer present; the machinery that is well within the epicenter is, meaning that their durability scales to the yield of the explosion.

I disagree with the proposed changes.

Weren't the machines installed after the explosion happened? Also the machines are outside of the crater which means that even if they were there during the explosion they didn't withstand its full yield.

 

[EtherealCrater]

To follow up on my previous message. If we look at the material used for the equipment and for their buildings we can see that they are one in the same. By the scans and OP's claim, they tend to leave their equipment very, very close to the bomb site and well within it's radius. It's no far gone conclusion to assume the mining equipment would be left behind to tank the power of the blast instead of being dragged thousands of kms away. Theirs also the dust still settling when the automata arrive, indicating the blast happened not long after they arrived.

 

[Slav]

Weren't the machines installed after the explosion happened? Also the machines are outside of the crater which means that even if they were there during the explosion they didn't withstand its full yield.

It's very much possible that they were installed after the explosion happened.

 

[EtherealCrater]

It's very much possible that they were installed after the explosion happened.

How could they have traveled 181,804 km and set up an entire mining operation before the dust even settled after the explosion?

 

[Slav]

To follow up on my previous message. If we look at the material used for the equipment and for their buildings we can see that they are one in the same. By the scans and OP's claim, they tend to leave their equipment very, very close to the bomb site and well within it's radius.

Even if we were to grant that any of these machines and buildings were there at the time of the detonation ( Which is not quantifiable ) you're leaving out the fact that this is the sight of the much weaker explosive which has no scaling to the explosion recalled by the automata.

 

[Slav]

How could they have traveled 181,804 km and set up an entire mining operation before the dust even settled after the explosion?

They never had to travel that big a distance because the explosion you're reffering to is much smaller than the one calculated to multi-continental. The later part of my post goes into detail on how they're different explosions with the one calculated to 6-A being far more powerful and having been detonated before the events of the side-story even took place. And btw they have spaceships, and they have a gigantic space pirate that is seemingly putting the machine in place. We've accepted most of the verse is relativistic since East Blue and Skypeia. It's not a bigger stretch than presupposing that random buildings and machines are multi-continental.

 

[EtherealCrater]

They never had to travel that big a distance because the explosion you're reffering to is much smaller than the one calculated to multi-continental. The later part of my post goes into detail on how they're different explosions with the one calculated to 6-A being far more powerful. And btw they have spaceships, and they have a gigantic space pirate that is seemingly putting the machine in place. We've accepted most of the verse is relativistic since East Blue and Skypeia. It's not a bigger stretch than presupposing that random buildings and machines are multi-continental.

We can literally see their size of the equipment compared to the ship, they are similar in size. There is no possible way they have several pieces of mining equipment that are comparable in size to their ship IN their ship. We can also literally just compare Enel to the size of their ship who is standing right on top of it.

There is 0 feasible way your version of events play out; the timeframe and logistics of everything dont line up at all.

 

[Slav]

We can literally see their size of the equipment compared to the ship, they are similar in size. There is no possible way they have several pieces of mining equipment that are comparable in size to their ship IN their ship.

There is a space pirate larger than the machine depicted in that very panel, which suggests a larger ship. And you're still blatantly ignoring the fact that this explosion is not as large as the one the automata recalled which invalidates your point.

 

[YmTheSuper]

How could they have traveled 181,804 km and set up an entire mining operation before the dust even settled after the explosion?

The 181,804 km distance is the radius of the dust cloud not the explosion, if you wanted to measure the size of the explosion and the crater itself from the size of the moon you would use this circular crater that fits with the shape of the crater and explosion we see.

But either way, we can't really use these distances as a narrative counter point because the explosion and crater aren't ever portrayed to be that large in the close up and direct shots of it.

I believe this panel is supposed to showcase the blue alien installing one of the machines next to the crater they created. And for all we know they could have bombarded the moon from space right above it using their spaceship and then went to the surface or they could have placed explosives at the epicenter then escaped a nearby location outside of the explosion and after the detonation they went and installed the machines.

Also in any case they are space pirates with spaceships that should be capable of space travel, I doubt that traveling large distances would cause them an issue.

 

[KingTempest]

You guys need a hobby.
Like actually.

Enel's profile has 2 calculations from his cover-story as a way to scale him, both of which I believe to be illogical and incoherent.

The first argues that Enel's lightning caused a crater on the Moon.

This is however untrue, as the uncropped image tells us that this hole has been dug up by the space pirates, not by Enel's lightnings. We do also see an explosion caused by the space pirates that sends some debris flying right before that at this same location which is likely what dug up that hole.

That's nice. Unfortunately on the wiki we've already established that Enel didn't make the damn crater, which is why we removed the feat from his profile. We just can't change blog names. We know that. You have not said anything we don't know.

The second calculation is of the Moon's explosion as recollected by one of the Automatas. Enel's page claims he scales to it via destroying a tool that "withstood it's full-might" with a CRT assuming that this very tool is what caused the explosion to begin with.

There are a lot of issues with this. Immediately we are never told or shown what devices were used to cause these explosions let alone that some random machine was the source for it. The machine we see Enel destroy is clearly not what caused the explosion since it has a wheel and a drill attatched to it which would suggest it's just something they use for digging and not an explosive.

The explosion recollected by the lone automata is not the same as the explosion Enel saw.

The timeline: The automatas see the large explosion on the Moon and decide to fly up to the Moon using balloons. ( A trip that'd possibly take them months and possibly years to accomplish considering the accepted distance between the Blue Planet and the Moon. ) They fight the space pirates and are defeated which powered them off for an unknown amount of time, until they're eventually found by Enel and he powers them back on. Afterward Enel sees an explosion nearby, which prompts him to go to that location and fight the space pirates.

There is no basis that those 2 explosions were caused by the same kind of explosives, let alone that they are equally powerful.

1. We see the explosions clearly differ visually and even having 2 different sound-effects implying that they're produced by different kinds of devices.

2. The explosion the automatas saw is also obviously far more powerful as it lifted a massive amount of dust all over the place. The explosion Enel saw barely lifted any dust, and it only caused a very small crater, with said crater having an accepted calculation for it's size already.

3. We see the explosion Enel caused seems to be much smaller since the spot Enel saw the explosion from was within visible range from the spaceship and machine that arrived at the explosion sight.

The machine Enel destroyed was only present at the sight of the much weaker explosion ( we don't know if it was there at the time of the explosion or if it was placed by the large space pirate after that ) and there is no basis that it can withstand the full might of the explosion the automata recalled. Its not very fair to say it automatically scales to a greater explosive.

This is like... dangerously deliberately ignorant.

The argument of the sfx is just wrong.
That isn't an sfx. It's literally just a speech bubble letting the reader know that there was a bomb that went off. It's the same thing of a speech bubble showing a person's face.
They differ because we have already acknowledged that those are 2 separate explosions. But one of them's visual showings is the expansion of the dust cloud which overshadows the explosion and the other one showed the explosion directly.
However, that doesn't matter.

The argument of them being 2 completely different explosion mean nothing because they have a single explosion tool that they have shown. If you argue otherwise you need to prove it.

There is no other tool that they showcase on the moon. We see their entire arsenal. We also know 1 thing.

#1 They blew up a large dust cloud on the moon
#2 The automatas saw it
#3 The automatas went to the same place
#4 The automatas lost in the same place
#5 Enel went to the same place

If Enel went to the same place that the explosion was formed, then it means that everything that was there for the 2nd explosion was there for the 1st explosion.

Your whole argument of "we don't know" has been addressed already. Damage3245 already said it here. It was dismantled here.
There is a group of people here who did not leave. Their entire ship was brought. They cannot go and grab prior tools. We have not seen that they have any other explosion tools. Occams razor dictates there was 1 tool. That tool can make big and small explosions. It scales to the big.

There is nothing to justify that Enel jumped from low 7-B all the way to high 6-A. The evidence is too weak, if not outright non-existent.

I suggest that we just remove Enel's 6-A key.

Okay.
We'll merge the High 6-A feat with his original key and just say he had that power the whole time.


Please. For you and for the remaining individuals who keep pumping out one piece downgrade threads while we're trying to DO REVISIONS, please CONSULT THE EXPERTS so that we can correct you on the points that need correcting.

 

[Damage3245]

You guys need a hobby.
Like actually.

Not that I disagree with the sentiment, but this website is a hobby, haha.

 

[KingTempest]

You guys need a different hobby*

 

[Slav]

The argument of them being 2 completely different explosion mean nothing because they have a single explosion tool that they have shown. If you argue otherwise you need to prove it.

There is no other tool that they showcase on the moon. We see their entire arsenal. We also know 1 thing.

#1 They blew up a large dust cloud on the moon
#2 The automatas saw it
#3 The automatas went to the same place
#4 The automatas lost in the same place
#5 Enel went to the same place

If Enel went to the same place that the explosion was formed, then it means that everything that was there for the 2nd explosion was there for the 1st explosion.

There is not one explosive tool that's been shown. You've assumed that the random machine Enel destroyed is the explosive, which hasn't been backed up with any evidence. Ive already shown it having a wheel and a drill which goes against it being an explosive. There hasn't been any evidence that any of these machineries were present at the sight of the first explosion, and that they weren't planted afterward.

There's nothing to suggest the automatas went to the same exact place of the large explosion. We know the space pirates have multiple mining sites across the moon, and we don't know at which sight the automatas encountered them, nor how long their trip was. And even if i granted you all your non sequitors it still has not been proven that at the time of the first explosions there were any buildings or machines present, when the space pirates more likely placed them there after the detonation. Since the automatas needed to bury the professor and then travel all the way to the moon using just balloons thered have been more than enough time for the space pirates to put those things.

Your argument also makes no sense from a logical perspective as whyd the space pirates just bomb their own structures? Even if you want to claim that they are simply durable enough not to worry that wont apply to the ground beneath those structures whichd be destroyed. if the footing is lost all these structures would have to be replanted.

Your entire argument seems to be a massive stretch. Its much more likely the space pirates detonated an explosive from a distance and then planted their camp there to dig the ruins.

And are we going to ignore the fact that the second explosion we see is far weaker and smaller than the first one? Ive presented enough panels to prove that. Why are you so confident the same device was used? Why are you so confident the power is the same? Please share.

The things damage has said in the past are not relevant to my thread, as his arguments aren't the same as mine. So try to stick to my thread and not trail off from it.

We have not seen that they have any other explosion tools. Occams razor dictates there was 1 tool. That tool can make big and small explosions. It scales to the big.

One, we have never seen ANY explosive tool. The thread just assumed those machines are explosive without any evidence. Second, that'd be an appeal to ignorance fallacy, not an application of occams razor. Your argument isnt logically sound.

 

[KingTempest]

There is not one explosive tool that's been shown. You've assumed that the random machine Enel destroyed is the explosive, which hasn't been backed up with any evidence. Ive already shown it having a wheel and a drill which goes against it being an explosive. There hasn't been any evidence that any of these machineries were present at the sight of the first explosion, and that they weren't planted afterward.

There's nothing to suggest the automatas went to the same exact place of the large explosion. We know the space pirates have multiple mining sites across the moon, and we don't know at which sight the automatas encountered them, nor how long their trip was. And even if i granted you all your non sequitors it still has not been proven that at the time of the first explosions there were any buildings or machines present, when the space pirates more likely placed them there after the detonation. Since the automatas needed to bury the professor and then travel all the way to the moon using just balloons thered have been more than enough time for the space pirates to put those things.

Your argument also makes no sense from a logical perspective as whyd the space pirates just bomb their own structures? Even if you want to claim that they are simply durable enough not to worry that wont apply to the ground beneath those structures whichd be destroyed by that massive explosion thus the footing and requiring them to be installed into the ground all over again.

Your entire argument seems to be a massive stretch. Its much more likely the space pirates detonated an explosive from a distance and then planted their camp there to dig the ruins.

And are we going to ignore the fact that the second explosion we see is far weaker and smaller than the first one? Ive presented enough panels to prove that. Why are you so confident the same device was used? Why are you so confident the power is the same? Please share.

The things damage has said in the past are not relevant to my thread, as his arguments aren't the same as mine. So try to stick to my thread and not trail off from it.


One, we have never seen ANY explosive tool. The thread just assumed those machines are explosive without any evidence. Second, that'd be an appeal to ignorance fallacy, not an application of occams razor. Your argument isnt logically sound.

There is 1 explosive tool. How do we know? Because all their stuff is right there.

They did go to the same exact place of the large explosion. How do we know? Because they landed in the same place where the people who caused the explosion resided after traveling there in a quick timeframe which is why the moon didn't shift to the other side of the planet by the time they got there.

You haven't seen a single other site of theirs on the moon whatsoever. Headcanon.

"Why would they bomb their own structures?" We literally see them do it on camera. They're durable enough to do so.

We see them put a ring around the explosive area and they used their explosive tool to do so.

The second explosive could be the size of my finger for all I care. If you can't show that they used a different tool for it, it doesn't matter.

The things damage said are the same things you said.

We have seen an explosive tool. That's why we see a LIVE EXPLOSION IN FRONT OF ENEL and the tool that caused the LIVE EXPLOSION was there. What happened that caused the orange sphere that blew up the moon that pissed off Enel was an explosion that was caused by the tools.

You can't show a single piece of proof saying otherwise, you're just assuming that they put a bunch of bombs then ran to the other side of the moon, which, guess what? Damage already said and got declined.

Literally you haven't said anything new, you've said a bunch of points that although you thought of yourself, were the same points that have been strained time and time again and proven to not be valid.

1 group makes 2 explosives. They show 1 tool. You assume that they have another one somewhere they didn't choose to use.
It makes 0 sense whatsoever.

 

[Slav]

oh boy.

There is 1 explosive tool. How do we know? Because all their stuff is right there.

Youre missing the point of the explosives being used not ever being shown. You cannot prove that all of their stuff was compacted in that tiny area

They did go to the same exact place of the large explosion. How do we know? Because they landed in the same place where the people who caused the explosion resided after traveling there in a quick timeframe which is why the moon didn't shift to the other side of the planet by the time they got there.

A balloon wont quickly reach the moon. they could have simply timed their parting. we calculate the motion of celestial bodies to predict where and when theyll be all the time

You haven't seen a single other site of theirs on the moon whatsoever. Headcanon.

Thats an argument from ignorance. but heres your debunk: image 1 and image 2 depict different places. The machine in pic 1 has a different design from the machine in pic 2, and the building between the two in pic 1 is not present in 2

"Why would they bomb their own structures?" We literally see them do it on camera.

1. we never see that. this is made up. it seems that the machine was planted there after the explosion by the giant space pirate. 2. we see that the explosion site was close enough for the ship and the building to be visible from where enel was. the fact we didnt see them at the time of the explosion implies they were planted afterward 3. even if we granted this it would be only applicable to the weaker explosive. the one so weak it only left a small crater in the ground. can you explain why thatd scale them to the 6-A explosion?

The second explosive could be the size of my finger for all I care. If you can't show that they used a different tool for it, it doesn't matter.

1. its the other way around. its up to you to prove the same explosive was used. do the space pirates have a magical infinite explosve that can be repeatedly used? is that the assumption youre making? 2. if its weaker and smaller it does matter since we never see anyone or anything withstand the first explosion. claiming a random structure can withstand a calculated 7-b explosion from a distance is not proof of 6-a durabillity

We have seen an explosive tool. That's why we see a LIVE EXPLOSION IN FRONT OF ENEL and the tool that caused the LIVE EXPLOSION was there.

no we see an explosion, not the tool used to cause it. its not that hard to understand. can you prove the grey machine with a wheel and a drill attatched to it is the explosive? sure doesnt look like one.

ou can't show a single piece of proof saying otherwise

the burden of proof here is yours

 

[KingTempest]

oh boy.

Youre missing the point of the explosives being used not ever being shown. You cannot prove that all of their stuff was compacted in that tiny area

Scroll down.

A balloon wont quickly reach the moon. they could have simply timed their parting. we calculate the motion of celestial bodies to predict where and when theyll be all the time

The fact that a balloon reached the first place shows you that logic is out the window for this
On top of that these robots are not intelligent enough to predict the positioning of the moon and time it with balloons. They used balloons to get to the moon. They were made like days before. They used katanas and rifles. They aren't predicting moon movements.

Thats a classic argument from ignorance. but heres your debunk: image 1 and image 2 depict different places. The machine in pic 1 has a different design from the machine in pic 2, and the building between the two in pic 1 is not present in 2

#1 Nobody cares about the machines in its entirety. What the calculation calculates is the material of the metal they use, as they appear to be one and the same.
#2 Move over. They are the same exact machine in the same exact place. Look throughout the images you send, I guarantee they showcase they're the same. It's just one big machine showing different parts.

1. we never see that. this is made up. it seems that the structures were planted there after the explosion by the giant space pirate. 2. we see that the explosion site was close enough for the ship and the building to be visible from where enel was. the fact we didnt see them at the time of the explosion implies they were planted afterward

No it doesn't, it could be that they were enveloped by it, shown by the ring around the explosion that conveniently walled off the explosion, or the fact that something had to cause the explosion, or the fact that enel is literally standing on their ship

3. even if we granted that this would be only for the weaker explosive. the one so weak it only left a small crater in the ground. can you explain why thatd scale them to the 6-A explosion?

You're the only one arguing it scales for only the weaker explosion. It wouldn't scale to the tier 6 one if it only scaled to the weak one.
That's why we're saying it doesn't scale only for the weak one.

1. its the other way around. its up to you to prove the same explosive was used. do the space pirates have a magical infinite explosve that can be repeatedly used? is that the assumption youre making? 2. if its weaker and smaller it does matter since we never see anyone or anything withstand the first explosion. claiming a random structure can withstand a calculated 7-b explosion is not proof of 6-a durabillity

no we see an explosion, not the tool used to cause it. its not that hard to understand. can you prove the grey machine with a wheel and a drill attatched to it is the explosive? sure doesnt look like one.

the burden of proof here is yours

You're the one claiming that a group who made 2 separate explosions used different tools. You need to do it.

 

[Slav]

On top of that these robots are not intelligent enough to predict the positioning of the moon and time it with balloons.

They were intelligent enough to reach the Moon weren't they?

Nobody cares about the machines in its entirety. What the calculation calculates is the material of the metal they use, as they appear to be one and the same.

None of their machines were ever shown to have been hit by a 6-A explosion. even if we assume there is a camp at that site NOW they could have set it up AFTER the explosion. itd make more sense that the order of events was them releasing a nuke then them going to the explosion site and putting in their machines or whatnot. theyd have had more than enough time to do so given how the robots had to prepare a burial for the doctor and then fly all the way up tp the moon by balloon and likely had to track the pirates after landing on the moon. the space pirates are depicted as superior, have spaceships and were already on the moon before the robots even decided to make their trip

Move over.

Man-made structures can have similar if not the same designs. The fact the machine is different proves they're different sites.

They are the same exact machine in the same exact place. Look throughout the images you send, I guarantee they showcase they're the same. It's just one big machine showing different parts.

The two machines are viewed from the same exact angle and we see the same exact middle part and wheel and are different. This proves them to be different machines. It doesn't take much to come to the conclusion that space pirates with spaceships would not be limited to having one mining site on the moon.

it could be that they were enveloped by it

Seeing the height of the structure compared to the explosion its unlikely it was big enough to cover it all.

or the fact that something had to cause the explosion

Nobody denies an explosives being used. Now would you explain why that scales a random machine to 6-a?

ou're the only one arguing it scales for only the weaker explosion. It wouldn't scale to the tier 6 one if it only scaled to the weak one.
That's why we're saying it doesn't scale only for the weak one.

To try to upscale a character youd need actual evidence. you are assuming that these machines scale to the 6-a explosion which hasnt been proven. thats why im saying we should remove enels 6-a key.

You're the one claiming that a group who made 2 separate explosions used different tools. You need to do it.

First of all: youre making the direct claim a random grey machine with a wheel and a drill is the explosive used to cause both explosions to try to upscale the metal. my post disagrees with that premise since there is nothing suggesting this machine is an explosive, and just looking at it will tell us its likely a completely seperate thing. the fact we see another similar yet different machine also debunks your whole idea. instead of trying to burden shift how about you prove your claim that this machine was the explosive, and that it caused both the 6-a explosion ( which seemingly happened in a different place at a different time, possibly years before enel got on the moon ) and the 7-b one

Second of all: a bomb is inherently a one-time use tool. so its more likely that they have multiple explosives, and occams razor would agree to that. i dont think its hard to believe that space pirates with a spaceship would have access to variety of bombs

i have already proven that one explosion is signifnicantly weaker ( in the millions of times weaker ranges as calculated here ). the idea the same explosive was used needs evidence.



Overall for anyone else reading this: the whole 6-a enel scale relies on the assumption that a drilling machine enel destroyed/dented is somehow an explosive that caused a 6-a explosion long ago on a different mining site on the moon which is not supported anywhere and is quite the silly assumption to make.

The explosives that they used are not known but im quite sure its not the machine with the drill. such a strong claim would need evidence that holds up. and just saying ''bro trust me the machine with the drill caused all these explosions and has 6-a durabillity off it!'' is not something thats strong enough to justify this

 

[Slav]

Bump

 

[KingTempest]

They were intelligent enough to reach the Moon weren't they?

I can be intelligent enough to reach the bottom of the ocean by dropping an anchor with my body attached it doesn't mean i know the flow of the sea

None of their machines were ever shown to have been hit by a 6-A explosion. even if we assume there is a camp at that site NOW they could have set it up AFTER the explosion. itd make more sense that the order of events was them releasing a nuke then them going to the explosion site and putting in their machines or whatnot. theyd have had more than enough time to do so given how the robots had to prepare a burial for the doctor and then fly all the way up tp the moon by balloon and likely had to track the pirates after landing on the moon. the space pirates are depicted as superior, have spaceships and were already on the moon before the robots even decided to make their trip

Man-made structures can have similar if not the same designs. The fact the machine is different proves they're different sites.

The two machines are viewed from the same exact angle and we see the same exact middle part and wheel and are different. This proves them to be different machines. It doesn't take much to come to the conclusion that space pirates with spaceships would not be limited to having one mining site on the moon.

You're objectively wrong regarding this.

Seeing the height of the structure compared to the explosion its unlikely it was big enough to cover it all.

Nobody denies an explosives being used. Now would you explain why that scales a random machine to 6-a?

The machines caused the explosives.

To try to upscale a character youd need actual evidence. you are assuming that these machines scale to the 6-a explosion which hasnt been proven. thats why im saying we should remove enels 6-a key.

First of all: youre making the direct claim a random grey machine with a wheel and a drill is the explosive used to cause both explosions to try to upscale the metal. my post disagrees with that premise since there is nothing suggesting this machine is an explosive, and just looking at it will tell us its likely a completely seperate thing. the fact we see another similar yet different machine also debunks your whole idea. instead of trying to burden shift how about you prove your claim that this machine was the explosive, and that it caused both the 6-a explosion ( which seemingly happened in a different place at a different time, possibly years before enel got on the moon ) and the 7-b one

Second of all: a bomb is inherently a one-time use tool. so its more likely that they have multiple explosives, and occams razor would agree to that. i dont think its hard to believe that space pirates with a spaceship would have access to variety of bombs

i have already proven that one explosion is signifnicantly weaker ( in the millions of times weaker ranges as calculated here ). the idea the same explosive was used needs evidence.

#1. The machines cause the explosions. You have no proof showcasing that they do not, especially because they are in the epicenter of every explosion we see.
#2. You have not provided a single lick of evidence saying they use external explosives. You're just assuming they did.
#3. I already said they're the same machine.

Overall for anyone else reading this: the whole 6-a enel scale relies on the assumption that a drilling machine enel destroyed/dented is somehow an explosive that caused a 6-a explosion long ago on a different mining site on the moon which is not supported anywhere and is quite the silly assumption to make.

The explosives that they used are not known but im quite sure its not the machine with the drill. such a strong claim would need evidence that holds up. and just saying ''bro trust me the machine with the drill caused all these explosions and has 6-a durabillity off it!'' is not something thats strong enough to justify this

Your lack of ability to look at scans is not proof against scaling that has been strained over and over.
The thing being scaled is the material. So even if it wasn't the same machine, the material would scale.
Guess what? IT'S THE SAME MACHINE

 

[Damage3245]

@Slav While I agree that there isn't enough evidence that the machines Enel destroyed were at the epicentre of the calced explosion, I think this thread should be closed. There are much more important things to revise for One Piece and Enel is pretty minor in the grand scheme of things right now.

 

[KingTempest]

Literally have a sandbox planning other skypiea shit and I can't produce it cause there's a new tier 6-5 revision EVERY DAY

 

[Slav]

You're objectively wrong regarding this.

I'm not objectively wrong, seeing how the machine is objectively different. You are taking 1 structure that has the same design and ignoring the other that doesn't. Do I need to repeat that man-made structures can have the same design? I don't think it's that hard to understand.

The machines caused the explosives.

And there is absolutely no evidence that has been sited for this argument. Notice how you keep repeating this, but you haven't posted one bit of evidence to back this claim up. This alone should tell us the validity behind 6-A Enel.

#1. The machines cause the explosions. You have no proof showcasing that they do not, especially because they are in the epicenter of every explosion we see.
#2. You have not provided a single lick of evidence saying they use external explosives. You're just assuming they did.
#3. I already said they're the same machine.

1. ''you have no proof that they did not cause the explosion'' Why is it up to me to prove a negative? It's you who's trying to materialize a 6-A scale based on the argument this machine caused the explosions. So it's your burden of proof that they did.
2. Wait, so you assuming that a random machine with a drill is an explosive causing 6-A explosions without evidence to get a 6-A scale for a low 7-B character is okay but me assuming they used an external explosive isn't? BTW the first panel directly told us they use BOMBS.
3. So you believe that your word is evidence? Well i think this says all there is to say regarding the validity of the current Enel scaling.

Your lack of ability to look at scans is not proof against scaling that has been strained over and over.
The thing being scaled is the material. So even if it wasn't the same machine, the material would scale.
Guess what? IT'S THE SAME MACHINE

Insulting me is not a defeater to my arguments. ''Even if it's not the same machine the material would scale'' Please explain why the material would scale to the 6-A explosion.

 

[Slav]

@Slav While I agree that there isn't enough evidence that the machines Enel destroyed were at the epicentre of the calced explosion, I think this thread should be closed. There are much more important things to revise for One Piece and Enel is pretty minor in the grand scheme of things right now.

Id respectfully ask you to reconsider. We may have other one piece threads but i dont think thats a good reason to just close another thread. Especially if its sound or reaching a conclusion by the looks of the extent of arguments presented. Just let the thread be and let it play out.

 

[Damage3245]

Id respectfully ask you to reconsider. We may have other one piece threads but i dont think thats a good reason to just close another thread. Especially if its sound or reaching a conclusion by the looks of the extent of arguments presented. Just let the thread be and let it play out.

The topic isn't going to be settled indefinitely; I don't think Enel should scale to the calc, but this thread isn't going to get it removed. It's my recommendation to drop the topic, and it can be revisited at a later date after the more important tasks for the profiles have been completed.

 

[Slav]

The topic isn't going to be settled indefinitely; I don't think Enel should scale to the calc, but this thread isn't going to get it removed. It's my recommendation to drop the topic, and it can be revisited at a later date after the more important tasks for the profiles have been completed.

Fine.

 

[Damage3245]

Okay. Closing.