Invincible Season 4 General Discussion Thread

[Zyurtunder13]

Thragg is punching him and Nolan knees him, staggering him. I have linked the scene in my initial post.

So, that's your grand example of a stagger? Nolan did nothing to him, as he was focusing in punching Nolan instead of defending himself, once he gets his guard up, Nolan literally breaks his own arm trying to attack Thragg, next time watch the show with your eyes focused

 

[57Dev]

So, that's your grand example of a stagger? Nolan did nothing to him, as he was focusing in punching Nolan instead of defending himself, once he gets his guard up, Nolan literally breaks his own arm trying to attack Thragg, next time watch the show with your eyes focused

It's quite literally what stagger means. And in comparison, in the same fight Mark tries punching Thragg and he doesn't even move.

You need to watch with you eyes open

 

[Zyurtunder13]

It's quite literally what stagger means. And in comparison, in the same fight Mark tries punching Thragg and he doesn't even move.

You need to watch with you eyes open

Except that he does make Thragg's head move, Nolan isn't really stronger than Mark in the way that you want it to be at all, both of them can't make Thragg's bleed at all, Nolan and Mark both struggled with Anissa

 

[InfinityUltron]

The current justification is that he's stronger than Immortal who's High 6-A for being stronger than Earth's weaponry, which can reach up to 19.63 Petatons. While that is High 6-A it's still lower than S3 mark's moon jump value, which is 56 Petatons

I see I see, so we currently have them all upscaling off of the Immortal. So guess everyone has a reasonable baseline to fall on due to the Immortal existing.

Btw anyone here has any idea whether a CRT has been made about removing Oliver's profile which says "Could knock back Conquest with surprise attacks" which has been discussed as not valid for his page.

If there isn't one, I could possibly make one specifically towards where we should scale Oliver [Season 3] right now. I think we can place Oliver at "At least Large Mountain level" during Season 3 and once Season 4 stats come along he'll be back to Multi-Continental prolly with "likely higher" attached

 

[Tahoy49574]

The visual representation of the scenes from Nolan's books shouldn't be taken too literally:

Rognarr story sure because viltrumites don't use weapons or space suits. But Space Racer's story is literally just Space Racer. The space sharks are even brought again in S4

 

[Tahoy49574]

I don't think it makes sense for oliver to be that low compared to the rest of the coalition.

I'm talking about Kid Oliver

 

[StarShooter80]

I see I see, so we currently have them all upscaling off of the Immortal. So guess everyone has a reasonable baseline to fall on due to the Immortal existing.

Well with the new feats all the High 6-A characters who scale to the greater feat will likely be tier 5 later on anyways

 

[Maikolpry]

Is this profile good?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Technicians_(Invincible_VS)

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Is this profile good?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Technicians_(Invincible_VS)

why are you scaling them to actual viltrumites? There explicitly stated to be weaker and get torn apart by actually viltrumtes and chuncks blown out of them by rexsplode. I'm pretty sure one even got knocked out by some falling piece of rubble.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

why are you scaling them to actual viltrumites? There explicitly stated to be weaker and get torn apart by actually viltrumtes and chuncks blown out of them by rexsplode. I'm pretty sure one even got knocked out by some falling piece of rubble.

They do also on-screen throw hands with Battle Beast so I dunno

 

[Maikolpry]

why are you scaling them to actual viltrumites?

Maybe because they can fight against the Viltrumites?

 

[DarkLock92]

why are you scaling them to actual viltrumites? There explicitly stated to be weaker and get torn apart by actually viltrumtes and chuncks blown out of them by rexsplode. I'm pretty sure one even got knocked out by some falling piece of rubble.

Luccan Clone made Anissa bleed a lot and left her panting. Plus she later got knocked out by her own clone

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Maybe because they can fight against the Viltrumites?

Although maybe they should have an "At most" and specify that they're weaker, that's for sure.

But the power scaling in general is bad, I mean, Dupli-Kate has defeated Battle Beast, so...

ya and get torn apart, atom eve even punched a chunk off of them

That wasn't battle beast or dupli-kate so I'm not sure were your getting that from

 

[Maikolpry]

ya and get torn apart, atom eve even punched a chunk off of them

That wasn't battle beast or dupli-kate so I'm not sure were your getting that from

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Luccan Clone made Anissa bleed a lot and left her panting. Plus she later got knocked out by her own clone

bleeding doesn't mean much tbh, so the clones tired her out and took her down when she was weakened, doesn't really change much of what I said

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

go to 24:55

 

[DarkLock92]

bleeding doesn't mean much tbh, so the clones tired her out and took her down when she was weakened, doesn't really change much of what I said

It's not like she gets jumped at any point so it was 1on1.
Plus fake Conquest can take hits from two Viltrumites

They could just have low durability tbh

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

They do also on-screen throw hands with Battle Beast so I dunno

so did robot and titan in the show

 

[Maikolpry]

It's a fighting game, so everyone really scales with everyone else, right?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

It's not like she gets jumped at any point so it was 1on1.
Plus fake Conquest can take hits from two Viltrumites

They could just have low durability tbh

I didn't say she got jumped I said she got taken down when she got tired. and? we've seen weaker characters take hits from far stronger ones before and we've literally seen this things get torn to shreds by other heroes

(42:16)

Robot literally calls them out for being weaker

(15:17)

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

It's a fighting game, so everyone really scales with everyone else, right?

um no, we go off of cutscenes and story stuff. And if we were really just throwing the show scaling out the window then there would be no reason for any of these characters to even be tier 6 going off of there feats in the game.

 

[DarkLock92]

I didn't say she got jumped I said she got taken down when she got tired.

Tired or not, Anissa's durability wouldn't go down by that much. And knocking someone out is very hard to do, it pretty much requires them to be somewhat comparable.

and? we've seen weaker characters take hits from far stronger ones before and we've literally seen this things get torn to shreds by other heroes

(42:16)

And we've seen comparable characters gore each other as well.

Robot literally calls them out for being weaker

(15:17)

Those aren't the technicians though, we see those Viltrumites disappear when Mark breaks his device. Plus they don't have regen like the technicians do later.
But later we see that their bodies still remain when their tech is destroyed

 

[DarkLock92]

Tbh I don't know why I'm trying to make sense out of Invincible powerscaling

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Tired or not, Anissa's durability wouldn't go down by that much. And knocking someone out is very hard to do, it pretty much requires them to be somewhat comparable.

if your sluggish then your far easier to knock down then usual regardless of how much damage you take. Especially with you know not having the strength to move around properly.

And we've seen comparable characters gore each other as well.

ya generally via slashing/pirecing attacks and or sneak attacks not by punching there jaw off in one blow.

Those aren't the technicians though, we see those Viltrumites disappear when Mark breaks his device. Plus they don't have regen like the technicians do later.
But later we see that their bodies still remain when their tech is destroyed

and? the only differnce is regen.

 

[DarkLock92]

if your sluggish then your far easier to knock down then usual regardless of how much damage you take. Especially with you know not having the strength to move around properly.

Knock down =/= Knock uncounscious. She literally went limp

ya generally via slashing/pirecing attacks and or sneak attacks not by punching there jaw off in one blow.

Nolan and Allen can crush the skull of a Viltrumite they're comparable to by punching it at the same time. Obviously this wouldn't happen in our reality, the guy would just get a concussion, but Invincible clearly operates on different rules.
Plus we know these aren't there real flesh and blood bodies, it's due to tech. It wouldn't surprise me if the durability of these things was different from their AP

and? the only differnce is regen.

Well no, the difference is that this isn't an illusion and that there's a whole person in there.

If they're not Viltrumite level then what are they then? The fact they can do more damage to Anissa then a Post-Thraxa Mark could, despite him already being able to damage Thula says a lot

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Knock down =/= Knock uncounscious. She literally went limp

that tends to happen when you don't got stamina

Nolan and Allen can crush the skull of a Viltrumite they're comparable to by punching it at the same time. Obviously this wouldn't happen in our reality, the guy would just get a concussion, but Invincible clearly operates on different rules.
Plus we know these aren't there real flesh and blood bodies, it's due to tech. It wouldn't surprise me if the durability of these things was different from their AP

you mean when they literally jumped bro? t

Well no, the difference is that this isn't an illusion and that there's a whole person in there.

If they're not Viltrumite level then what are they then? The fact they can do more damage to Anissa then a Post-Thraxa Mark could, despite him already being able to damage Thula says a lot

it wasn't an illusion to begin with, mark's chip got damaged from that falling rocket.

(15:40)
it's literally the same tech, the only difference is the regen.


and yet they still couldn't take out any of the other heroes, there main shtick in the fight was that they couldn't die and just outlast everyone. if it wasn't for the regen they would have gotten taken out by rex splode, eve and the other regular heroes. It was made very clear early on that they aren't as strong as viltrumites and shown multiple times to get massive damage from regular heroes.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Is the argument that a group of 8-Cs beat 5 Viltrumite level characters cause they got Mid regen?

 

[DarkLock92]

snip

I still don't agree with this, but I don't really care enough to continue arguing

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Is the argument that a group of 8-Cs beat 5 Viltrumite level characters cause they got Mid regen?

not sure were your getting 5 from and the only one that went down was Anissa who was already shown to be tired before hand.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I still don't agree with this, but I don't really care enough to continue arguing

sure we can agree to disagree

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

not sure were your getting 5 from and the only one that went down was Anissa who was already shown to be tired before hand.

Mark, Lucan, Battle Beast, they all were struggling with these guys.

Them putting a spy in with the cast while they were already sealed inside an impenetrable bubble is dumb enough on its own.
Them trying to square up against Viltrumites, the same ones they were literally siphoning kinetic energy from as fuel, with 8-C technology while also bragging about being “upgraded” versions is a whole new level of stupid.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Mark, Lucan, Battle Beast, they all were struggling with these guys.

Them putting a spy in with the cast while they were already sealed inside an impenetrable bubble is dumb enough on its own.
Them trying to square up against Viltrumites, the same ones they were literally siphoning kinetic energy from as fuel, with 8-C technology while also bragging about being “upgraded” versions is a whole new level of stupid.

not really, at least for the majority fight from what I remember. And even if they were it basically just them being worn down like Anissa.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Now bringing up something a bit more interesting, nolan may have moved that alien planet closer to the sun, Take this as what you well

"Well, Homelander is a weakling. And that's not any kind of antagonistic thing. It's a very grounded world, and so Homelander, on the scale of other superheroes, is very low. But Superman sucks. Omni-Man takes him down easily. I've said this before. Every time I say it, a bunch of Superman fans, if you can believe there is such a thing, come out of the woodwork and attack me online as if I said something that's not definitively and indisputably true. But Omni-Man would completely trash that guy. Superman, 'Oh my gosh, in the golden age, he moved planets.' Okay, whatever. Who knows if Omni-Man could do that? Maybe he could. Maybe pay attention to Season 4. Who knows? But, yeah, I think that Superman is absolute trash."
- https://collider.com/invincible-robert-kirkman-superman-vs-omni-man-homelander-debate/

nolan may have moved that alien planet closer to it's star, take this statement as what you well.

 

[Tahoy49574]

Is this profile good?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Technicians_(Invincible_VS)

No one's gonna object scaling them to TV Viltrumites ? Like, why even make "Invincible VS" specific profiles then if you're not going to focus in the feats and scaling of that game.

Also we have nowhere near enough context of what's going on in the ending to give them 5-B with technology

 

[InfinityUltron]

I read through the convo above and well we have no real reason to argue that the Technicians are comparable to Viltrumites and those Viltrumites have Show Accurate Scaling, because Rexsplode manages to blow of Technician Omni-Man's jaw, Robot's lasers can significantly harm Technician Conquest and Monster Girl literally does the exact damage that Battle Beast gives to Lucan in a single punch.
If anything it seems more like since the Game is a Fighting Game, they ignored the show logic for cutscenes so we have Earth's Weakest Heroes rivalling the Strongest Characters there.

We mainly need to find a way to agree on whether or not we should use Show Scaling for the Invincible VS Characters?

 

[InfinityUltron]

Also just thought about this but if we're making profiles for Invincible VS Characters, We probably should start with a Profile for Ella Mental since she's the new character and more people would wanna learn about her scaling than the Technicians tbh.

I can try listing feats for her but we all probably know them by this point

 

[Eseseso]

Is the fact Thragg's winding of his fist pulled Omni-Man by force towards him when a Black Hole failed to do so worth anything in terms of strength?

Also, neither Season 3 Oliver nor pre-Awakening Eve should have any scaling to Conquest, neither one hurt him. Season 4 Oliver actually did hurt him a bit, but that's a different story.

 

[InfinityUltron]

Is the fact Thragg's winding of his fist pulled Omni-Man by force towards him when a Black Hole failed to do so worth anything in terms of strength?

As far as I can tell, No
If you calc the punch via Visuals it comes around to be like Building Level if I remember [A friend of mine calc'd it on Discord] but I wouldn't use THAT scene to argue that Suction from Thragg's Forearm is greater than the pull of a Black Hole. Also I think there was an argument about the Nolan being far enough from the event horizon to not be pulled in like this while Thragg's forearm is like in punching range of Nolan so there is a huge difference in the scenes as well.

Also, neither Season 3 Oliver nor pre-Awakening Eve should have any scaling to Conquest, neither one hurt him. Season 4 Oliver actually did hurt him a bit, but that's a different story.

I can agree to the Oliver not scaling to Conquest stuff but Eve did manage to keep Conquest on his toes for a good chunk of the fight, managing to push him back as well. So Atom Eve should scale to "Massively FTL+ combat and reaction speed". As for her Strength Scaling, she should upscale The Immortal who has a Multi-Continental feat and could scale to Start of Season 3 Mark's Moon Jumping Feat so her rating seems fine.

Also, neither Season 3 Oliver nor pre-Awakening Eve should have any scaling to Conquest, neither one hurt him. Season 4 Oliver actually did hurt him a bit, but that's a different story.

Oliver in Season 4 didn't really hurt Conquest, at best he made Conquest flinch a little bit until getting overpowered immediately. In the same fight Oliver fought Lucan and was losing badly, almost getting chopped if Nolan didn't kick Lucan away in time a charging Oliver. His best feat that fight was making Conquest flinch and kick Lucan hard enough to make him bleed,

Maybe we could argue he's closer to Lucan than he is Conquest as a change for his Profile, like "relative to Lucan" but that might be a bit odd since we currently have Lucan scaling Omni-Man but it's better than Oliver scaling to Conquest

 

[Tahoy49574]

We mainly need to find a way to agree on whether or not we should use Show Scaling for the Invincible VS Characters?

It's very obvious why we shouldn't, no discussion needed on that

Also there's still feats pending for TV and Comic, you guys seriously want to move to an unfinished game ?

 

[Tahoy49574]

Eve did manage to keep Conquest on his toes for a good chunk of the fight, managing to push him back as well. So Atom Eve should scale to "Massively FTL+ combat and reaction speed". As for her Strength Scaling, she should upscale The Immortal who has a Multi-Continental feat and could scale to Start of Season 3 Mark's Moon Jumping Feat so her rating seems fine.

You realize the entire verse would scale to MFTL+ with that, right ?

Also she did NOT have Conquest "on his toes", he literally wanted to see how long she could keep up her current pace and was destroying her stuff rather easily. None of it deal any noticeable damage.
Besides hasn't her constructs been cracked and outright destroyed by plenty other stuff ?