[staff required] A color you have never seen... Imaginate it. That is where you are

[TheTenno07]

The realm of duviri.
It's a place created by the drifter (their profile will be coming soon when @thezamn910 frees me from his basement) stated to be a universe (which possess infinite size), and we know this place has a time dimension because the drifter grew old there and claims to have been there for untold centuries.
Conclusion: it's a 4D dimension.
This place also is stated to exist within the void (Which also has an infinite size), which is accepted according to this thread to be a spatiotemporal separator, to likely an aleph-1 quantity of universes since eternalism in Warframe works in a multiversal way, so the void should be uncountable infinitely extended.
The void also appears to have its own temporal dimension, since we can see time passes in survival missions there and the warframe protea can use her temporal powers in there.
So why couldn’t the same temporal framework apply to both Duviri and the Void?
Thank you for asking, my dear friend!
(Download Warframe you will not regret it)
Because in duviri the time was looped often either by the drifter or by dominus Thrax, and this didn't affect at all any other places in the void.
How can we know this?

1. The survival missions in the void were not being looped
2. Tho time exist within the void time isn't linear, so It wouldn't work the same way
3. The dimensión is stated to be the one that was in the loop
4. The one I think confirms it the most: the Zariman ship, the tenno were trapped there by unknown time until they got out, by the rules of time, they should have been affected in at least one point by the loop, but this never said to be the case.

Summary: Duviri it's a low 2-C realm which exists inside the void that has its own temporal dimension, it likely extends over an infinite uncountable area because it separates the universes in Warframe which exist for every snapshot of time. We now the void separates them because you have to enter the void and come out of it to travel between them (which is accepted in the profile and in the previous thread).
Possible conclusions:

1. Change the void tier from 2-A likely low 1-C to a 1-C (6D) rating
2. Change it to low 1-C likely 1-C.
3. Give it a direct low 1-C tier and remove the 2-A

Agree: @Reiner04 (option 3) @Celestial_Pegasus (option 3)
Neutral:
Disagrees: @Qawsedf234 (does not believe the evidence is sufficient for a direct rate)
Is gonna play Warframe in the near future:

 

[OblivionCiffer2202]

The realm of duviri.
It's a place created by the drifter (their profile will be coming soon when @thezamn910 frees me from his basement) stated to be a universe (which possess infinite size), and we know this place has a time dimension because the drifter grew old there and claims to have been there for untold centuries.
So, it's a 4D dimension.
This place also is stated to exist within the void (Which also has an infinite size), which is accepted according to this thread to be a spatiotemporal separator, to likely an aleph-1 quantity of universes since eternalism in Warframe works in a multiversal way, so the void should be uncountable infinitely extended.
The void also has a time dimension of its own, since we can see time passes in survival missions there and the warframe protea can use her temporal powers in there.
Why can't the same time exist for Duviri and for the void?
Thank you for asking, my dear friend!
(Download Warframe you will not regret it)
Because in duviri the time was looped often either by the drifter or by dominus Thrax, and this didn't affect at all any other places in the void.
How can we know this?

1. The survival missions in the void were not being looped
2. Tho time exist within the void time isn't linear, so It wouldn't work the same way
3. The dimensión is stated to be the one that was in the loop
4. The one I think confirms it the most: the Zariman ship, the tenno were trapped there by unknown time until they got out, by the rules of time, they should have been affected in at least one point by the loop, but this never said to be the case.

Summary: Duviri it's an low 2-C realm which exists within the void that has its own time dimension, likely It extends over an infinite uncountable area and separates the universes in Warframe since you have to enter the void and come out of it to go to another universe (which is accepted in the profile and in the previous thread).
Possible conclusions.

1. Change the void tier from 2-A likely low 1-C to a 1-C (6D) rating
2. Change it to low 1-C likely 1-C.
3. Give it a direct low 1-C tier and remove the 2-A

Agree:
Neutral:
Disagrees:
Is gonna play Warframe in the near future:

Don't download Warframe. Joking aside, I agree that we should remove the 2-A and just go with a low 1-C.

 

[TheTenno07]

Bump

 

[TheTenno07]

Bump

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I'm leaning to Low 1-C being fine but I'm going to wait for a proper evaluation to see what contentions there may be.

 

[TheTenno07]

Bump

 

[TheTenno07]

Bump

 

[CelestialVortex01]

Option one seems to make the most sense to me

 

[TheTenno07]

Bump

 

[TheTenno07]

Bump

 

[TheTenno07]

Bump

 

[TheTenno07]

Bump

 

[TheTenno07]

Bump

 

[WAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH]

Did someone say IMAGINATE!

...I'm sorry, ignore me.

 

[TheTenno07]

Did someone say IMAGINATE!

...I'm sorry, ignore me.

I imaginate you're tasered in the gut!

 

[TheTenno07]

Bump

 

[Re5yh]

Agree

 

[TheTenno07]

Bump

 

[TheTenno07]

bump

 

[TheTenno07]

bump

 

[Reiner04]

It wouldn't be 1-C since it would require Void to have different origin or direction of time than the Universe. Also Voids having time is just considered generally PIS here unless they have proper elaboration:

Dimensions that are timeless voids or are described as beyond spacetime in general would also not qualify. Unless they contradict themselves, these realms should not have a time dimension at all, with change in them happening according to other principles. If they, on the other hand, do contradict themselves, the statement of them not having regular time would inherently not be reliable, making the idea equally unusable.

Low 1-C is fine.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Low 1-C seems fine since The Void separates infinite universes and is itself infinite. As for 6-D, the Void seems to have it's own time, which is separate from the time of the universes, but doesn't prove that it moves a different direction as far as I can see.

 

[TheTenno07]

It wouldn't be 1-C since it would require Void to have different origin or direction of time than the Universe. Also Voids having time is just considered generally PIS here unless they have proper elaboration:



Low 1-C is fine.

I mean... The void isn't actually a Void, that's just it's name. Adding a bit to the argument: in Warframe, the origin of the main character dates back to an accident involving a ship called Zariman 10-0, blah blah blah; they are connected with the void now. And their parents were (or not) turned into monster from which they had to hide, and they found a "safe place" where they stayed a long time (and this happened inside The Void). Is this enough to prove a time dimension?

 

[Reiner04]

I mean... The void isn't actually a Void, that's just it's name. Adding a bit to the argument: in Warframe, the origin of the main character dates back to an accident involving a ship called Zariman 10-0, blah blah blah; they are connected with the void now. And their parents were (or not) turned into monster from which they had to hide, and they found a "safe place" where they stayed a long time (and this happened inside The Void). Is this enough to prove a time dimension?

I don't think so. FAQ clearly outlines the stsndard that is required to prove existence of Twp time dimensions. I will tag Qawsedf for confimation tho. @Qawsedf234 your input here will be appreciated, considering you took part in previous thread.

 

[TheTenno07]

Low 1-C seems fine since The Void separates infinite universes and is itself infinite. As for 6-D, the Void seems to have it's own time, which is separate from the time of the universes, but doesn't prove that it moves a different direction as far as I can see.

I'm not arguing that the time of the void is ortogonal to the time of the universes. I don't even think that can be proven or even argued. I'm arguing it for duviri, with it's a universe (as the op says) inside the Void, with it's own time dimension that the void should indeed be ortogonal to

 

[TheTenno07]

I don't think so. FAQ clearly outlines the stsndard that is required to prove existence of Twp time dimensions. I will tag Qawsedf for confimation tho. @Qawsedf234 your input here will be appreciated, considering you took part in previous thread.

In qawsedf we trust !

 

[TheTenno07]

Low 1-C seems fine since The Void separates infinite universes and is itself infinite. As for 6-D, the Void seems to have it's own time, which is separate from the time of the universes, but doesn't prove that it moves a different direction as far as I can see.

Also, wouldn't that still be 1-C?
Since you're implying its axis that separates the universes has a significant size, plus a time dimension?

 

[Qawsedf234]

I don't think so. FAQ clearly outlines the stsndard that is required to prove existence of Twp time dimensions. I will tag Qawsedf for confimation tho. @Qawsedf234 your input here will be appreciated, considering you took part in previous thread.

I'm not seeing anything here for two temporal dimensions. The Void/Duviri being 4D+1 or 3D+1 would be enough to fulfill all of its cosmology requirements.

 

[TheTenno07]

I'm not seeing anything here for two temporal dimensions. The Void/Duviri being 4D+1 or 3D+1 would be enough to fulfill all of its cosmology requirements.

Duviri (which is distinct from the Void) is 4D (inf3D+1D) Since it's called a universe, by wiki standards, it must be a space-time. As far as I know, only spatial dimensions are taken into account (sorry for the redundancy) for dimensions between universes. Wouldn't the Void have to be spatially at least insignificant 5D to do this? And since this insignificant axis It most likely expands uncountable infinitely should it become a significant axis + its time dimension that contains Duviri's temporal dimension?
If I'm wrong can I be corrected using DB's example and have your vote?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Duviri (which is distinct from the Void) is 4D (inf3D+1D)

You do know the plus 1 in that equation is time right? Like your bar for bar saying that this realm is spatially 3D with 1 Temporal Dimension.

Wouldn't the Void have to be spatially at least insignificant 5D to do this?

It's 4th Dimensional with an irrelevant fifth axis, which means a temporal dimension just makes it 4D+1.

And since this insignificant axis It most likely expands uncountable infinitely should it become a significant axis + its time dimension that contains Duviri's temporal dimension?

That's only under the assumption that there's an aleph-1 number of universes. Even then it being aleph-1 just means the end container must be 5D spatio-temporally. Which can can be accomplished with 4D+1.

 

[TheTenno07]

You do know the plus 1 in that equation is time right? Like your bar for bar saying that this realm is spatially 3D with 1 Temporal Dimension.

Yes , I said this to reaffirm that there was a realm within the Void that could be argued to say that The Void acts as an hypertimeline

It's 4th Dimensional with an irrelevant fifth axis, which means a temporal dimension just makes it 4D+1.

I see.

You do know the plus 1 in that equation is time right? Like your bar for bar saying that this realm is spatially 3D with 1 Temporal Dimension.

It's 4th Dimensional with an irrelevant fifth axis, which means a temporal dimension just makes it 4D+1.


That's only under the assumption that there's an aleph-1 number of universes. Even then it being aleph-1 just means the end container must be 5D spatio-temporally. Which can can be accomplished with 4D+1.

So u agree for at least a direct low 1-C tier? (Thanks for the correction, btw)

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yes , I said this to reaffirm that there was a realm within the Void that could be argued to say that The Void acts as an hypertimeline

It does not act as a hypertimeline. There's no indication of a greater time axis or time evolving in a time-like fashion.

So u agree for at least a direct low 1-C tier? (Thanks for the correction, btw)

No. It would only be there if there's an uncountable infinite number of universes.

 

[TheTenno07]

It does not act as a hypertimeline. There's no indication of a greater time axis or time evolving in a time-like fashion.


No. It would only be there if there's an uncountable infinite number of universes.

Would the fact of the infinite size of the universe and that eternalism (in Warframe) makes all possible permutations of just the present moment equally real help to argue this fact?
I mean, in the present moment in all the universe a rock It fell to the ground on all the planets, and at that same instant it only did so on 1 and on another 2 and on another blah blah, that would be already 2-A no?
If we continue like this for every "present moment" it should reach the uncountable infinite requirement

 

[Qawsedf234]

Would the fact of the infinite size of the universe and that eternalism (in Warframe) makes all possible permutations of just the present moment equally real help to argue this fact?

No. In fact looking at my old response I just gave you the wrong impression. We default to Eternalism in the wiki:

Q: How are timelines used on the wiki?​

A: There are broadly speaking three schools of thought regarding time: Eternalism, Presentism, and the Growing Block theory of time. Eternalism is the philosophy that the "past", "present", and "future" all coexist and extend infinitely. Presentism is the philosophy that the "past" and "future" aren't real, as they either have happened or have not happened yet, and the Growing Block philosophy is that the "past" and "present" are real, but the future has not happened yet. Per the Universe Page, VSBW treats all franchises as defaulting to Eternalism, so there's an infinite series of temporal snapshots that extend into the past and into the future, each containing the entire universe, granting an uncountable infinite number of snapshots of that particular space for the entire space-time continuum. However, if a franchise does not follow Eternalism but another temporal philosophy, it will be tiered that way. In such cases, greater examination is needed regarding cosmology. Without an infinite timestream, there's no longer an uncountable infinite number of temporal snapshots, which means that universes would not default to Low 2-C unless they have explicit evidence for a fourth-dimensional axis of significant size.

Warframe is just stating that they use the default in our system. You have to prove that universes are spatially 4D to get the Void to Low 1-C. If anything the Tier 1 rating should just be removed outright.

 

[TheTenno07]

No. In fact looking at my old response I just gave you the wrong impression. We default to Eternalism in the wiki:

Warframe is just stating that they use the default in our system. You have to prove that universes are spatially 4D to get the Void to Low 1-C. If anything the Tier 1 rating should just be removed outright.

Eternalism in Warframe is different to the one irl, in Warframe the snapshots of time are stated to be independent worlds, you can see it in this convo here which mentions that it is thanks to eternalism that there is a version of the conversation that did not end there, and this is not part of the real-life theory that only states past, present, and future to be equally real; not creating another worlds with different actions existing in parallel, the multiversal interpretation as I said in the op is supported by the wiki. Warframe's eternalism Its more similar to modal realism than to true irl eternalism

 

[Qawsedf234]

Eternalism in Warframe is different to the one irl, in Warframe the snapshots of time are stated to be independent worlds, you can see it in this convo here which mentions that it is thanks to eternalism that there is a version of the conversation that did not end there, and this is not part of the real-life theory that only states past, present, and future to be equally real; not creating another worlds with different actions existing in parallel, the multiversal interpretation as I said in the op is supported by the wiki. Warframe's eternalism Its more similar to modal realism than to true irl eternalism

That's just 2-A, since it's not based on waveform collaspe but on deterministic possibilities.

 

[Reiner04]

That's just 2-A, since it's not based on waveform collaspe but on deterministic possibilities.

I think in previous thread, number of Universes were accepted to be uncountable (unless i misunderstood smth)

So it's into the Void. Now me girls and me boys (1 vote needed)

So... I've noticed that Warframe is pretty dead around here, so I wanted to make a small effort to bring it back to life a little. That’s why I made this blog as my proposal for a profile of The Void, the central point of Warframe’s story. Feel free to point out any corrections or ask questions...

vsbattles.com

 

[Qawsedf234]

think in previous thread, number of Universes were accepted to be uncountable (unless i misunderstood smth)

The previous thread was under the assumption that every moment in time generates its unique universe. Which is an uncountable infinite number of Low 2-C spaces. But all the quotes given by the OP is for deterministic actions causing splits, which isn't branching in a time-like fashion but through finite inputs multiplied infinitely.

 

[TheTenno07]

That's just 2-A, since it's not based on waveform collaspe but on deterministic possibilities.

Actually it's kinda both.
There's a creature in Warframe called the indifference which to explain how it was possible how for them to be in the past of certain character (profile coming soon) and they explained quantum entanglement, superposition, and eternalism are all the same coin in that respect.
And Quantum physics is not foreign to Warframe, we had have it since the beginning of the game and this is what eternalism is being grouped with.
And it is possible to think that both things cannot be true about the Void, well Warframe is not foreign to contradictions, that's the whole nature of the Void

 

[TheTenno07]

The previous thread was under the assumption that every moment in time generates its unique universe. Which is an uncountable infinite number of Low 2-C spaces. But all the quotes given by the OP is for deterministic actions causing splits, which isn't branching in a time-like fashion but through finite inputs multiplied infinitely.

That's still the assumption in this thread! (and as I said the interpretation of the wiki)
And as I propose, all points in time and their present probabilities/permutations exist as another worlds