TenSura LN Revision — Quick Additions

[Astral_Trinity439]

Introduction​

Hello everyone. Hope y'all are doing well. Hopefully this can be just a quick LN Revision that isn't controversial. Consider it a side quest;

As always, keep your behavior friendly and non-toxic, and avoid derailing!

Table of Contents​

Resurrection Negation
Basically, Veldanava can kill Guy Crimson such that he wouldn't be able to revive:

Even she herself understands that it is impossible, but Velzard could not endure it. The idea that Guy would be killed by someone such a thing is absolutely unforgivable. If that someone were Veldanava, there is no guarantee that he could be revived. If it were to come to that, then rather, she wanted to kill him with her own hands. If she did that, then at the very least, Guy would be able to revive. However, Guy paid no attention at all to such feelings of Velzard. That’s why although she thought so, Velzard also thought, that’s just like Guy.
V23C1
Translation Source

But Guy has High Godly resurrection:

• Resurrection (High-Godly Overtime; A Primordial Daemon can resurrect from soul and core destruction, Information particle and information are the Fundamental aspect of Tensura and all things such as skills, and the core which is the most important part of the soul are made up of it)

So Veldanava would get Resurrection Negation (High Godly; Concept and Information), since the Heart Core is currently accepted as Concept type 1 and Information type 2 of a being (refer to Disintegration in Miracle Grade Holy Magic section).

Overtime removal from Resurrection
So currently True dragons have a separate resurrection rating aside from their "Soul corridor" thing:

• Resurrection (High-Godly over time; True Dragons could resurrect after the destruction of their Nucleus Hearts. Everything in Tensura is made up by Information and Information Particles, including the Nucleus Heart/Core)

Problem is that this "overtime" thing is unfound. The moment a true dragon's heart core is destroyed, they will resurrect somewhere else in the world:

One must carefully, cautiously, and slowly descend, as if calming Velzard’s raging heart. If one were to forcefully push forward with brute strength, it would end up destroying Velzard’s Heart Core. If that were to happen, the current Velzard would, at the end of her rampage, release all of her energy and cease to exist. And then a new “Dragon Species” would be born somewhere in this world. That outcome is the worst for Guy. Even if he himself dies, he would likely be able to fully revive while retaining his ego. However, Velzard is not like that. Even if the “soul” is completely identical down to a single Spirit Particle, and even if appearance and abilities are perfectly identical, the personality becomes something different.
In that case, can it truly be called the same being?
V23C1
Translated by @RaikiKurohane99 in DMs

Since "somewhere else in the world" is still within the Cardinal world, and since true dragons have tier 2 range, it shouldn't even be a problem. The only problem that could be found here is that the Ego/Personality would change, but that shouldn't really matter as they keep all their memories, which means the memories of their enemy would still be there.

So remove the "Overtime" thing basically. Can mention the Ego thing in weakness section if necessary for indexing.

TL;DR

• Veldanava gets HGR negation (Concept type 1 and info type 2)
• True dragons have the "overtime" thing removed.

Note: Please keep in mind that some scans about resurrection in the novel/manga are about spiritual lifeforms in general, even if they have true dragons in visuals as examples. Some of them are also from Rimuru very early on, when he wasn't Knowledeable on true dragons' powers, so only refer to scans that actually refer to true dragons, not SLFs in general, and keep the chronology in mind!

Votes​

Agree:

Disagree:

Neutral:

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That is all. Hope you enjoyed reading~!

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

Agree

 

[MSahla]

Looks simple enough

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Actually, a simple and straightforward CRT from Astral that doesn't seem controversial? Not to mention it actually focuses on improving stuff... I agree

 

[Hecky2222]

 

[Community_Gamer]

Agree

 

[LadyVeldanava]

Looks good

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

My glorious king jinwoo victims (neutral. I do recall some scans but too lazy to find them)

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

My glorious king jinwoo victims (neutral. I do recall some scans but too lazy to find them)

Jinwoo is a Godta victim

 

[Mizuki67]

Overtime shouldnt even be a thing. Even if it was should be stated in weakness tab

 

[Mbpoops]

Sure

 

[MrTayman616]

Resurrection Negation
Basically, Veldanava can kill Guy Crimson such that he wouldn't be able to revive:

But Guy has High Godly resurrection:

So Veldanava would get Resurrection Negation (High Godly; Concept and Information), since the Heart Core is currently accepted as Concept type 1 and Information type 2 of a being (refer to Disintegration in Miracle Grade Holy Magic section).

Shouldn't it be "possibly"?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Shouldn't it be "possibly"?

First bolded line is possibly while the 2nd bolded part establishes it as a certainty.

 

[MrTayman616]

First bolded line is possibly while the 2nd bolded part establishes it as a certainty.

Isn't it to make it certain he revives rather than risking it?

 

[MetaChronos]

It's simple enough, agree

 

[Mizuki67]

Also why the hell do the primals only have overtime resurrection. I thought their revival should work instantly because they are different from true dragons or is that only for Diablo ? I don't know why Guy doesn't even have it

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

Isn't it to make it certain he revives rather than risking it?

There was a moment when Veldanava was about to use “Initialize Heaven” to wipe everything out and recreate the world. He was sure the True Dragons and Milim would come back in the new world, and only the True Dragons were actually mentioned, while Ivarage was implied to survive it. So yeah, it’s pretty safe to assume he wasn’t including the Primordials, since they wouldn’t survive.

I don’t know why Astral isn’t using it as supporting evidence tho.

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

Also why the hell do primal demon only have overtime resurrection. Their revival should work instantly because they are different from true dragons or is that only for Diablo ? I don't know why Guy doesn't have it

Only for Diablo. He’s said to be special in that regard.

 

[Mizuki67]

Only for Diablo. He’s said to be special in that regard.

but here is the thing is there any scan that mention he could easily revive even when his heart core shatter ? Otherwise I don't see how he is different from others. This is the only scan i can find in his profile which doesn't tell that much

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

is there any scan that mention he could revive even when his heart core shatter ?

....
We have statements for the Primordials in general.

So, yeah, I still haven’t finished my introduction. Mizeri and I lost to Guy-sama, but this revealed one important fact. A demon will be extinguished when its heart core is shattered. However, we, the Primordials, can recover from any condition!
I heard that the True Dragons inherit memories while losing their personalities upon death, but in our case, our personalities remained intact. Guy-sama’s partner, Frost Dragon Velzard-sama, used to re-educate her younger brother by resetting his personality, but that doesn’t apply to us Primordials. Seriously, isn’t that amazing?

The special trait I’m talking about is that Diablo can resurrect instantly.

 

[Mizuki67]

....
We have statements for the Primordials in general.


The special trait I’m talking about is that Diablo can resurrect instantly.

the scan you sent to me does not tell me that much it just told us that he could revive instantly when he fight with Guy. No mention of heart core nothing.

 

[Cipher72]

but here is the thing is there any scan that mention he could easily revive even when his heart core shatter ?

All Primordials can, Diablo is special because he can do it instantly whereas others have to wait for multiple years (stated by Blanc and one of the other girls)

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These are the ones I have at hand, someone can send more but this concept is very well known and established

the scan you sent to me does not tell me that much it just told us that he could revive instantly when he fight with Guy. No mention of heart core nothing. He could revive because of his IQ

What are you talking about ? All Primordials can revive after destruction of Heart Core without any alterations to their personality ? This is stated by Raine and even other characters on the verge of death/losing (Blanc and Carrera{might have been ultima}) Diablo is Special in the sense he can revive instantly after getting destroyed and that's the only reason why Gii tolerates him. Gii is hundreds of times stronger in terms of almost everything. BIQ doesn't let you revive my guy it's your connection to the Great Spirit that allows them to resurrect, others take time - Diablo doesn't which is why he gets to s*** talk Gii and get away with it instead of being 6' under because like Gii himself said it's exhausting to kill someone who can just resurrect at a moment's notice.

 

[Mizuki67]

All Primordials can, Diablo is special because he can do it instantly whereas others have to wait for multiple years (stated by Blanc and one of the other girls)

8abeb4798192.jpg

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These are the ones I have at hand, someone can send more but this concept is very well known and established

Again the scan only tell us that primordial could revive even if their heart core is shattered. Just because Diablo is a special demon does not 100% mean he has the capability to revive instantly even if his heart core shattered. It could be talking about battle experience his battle IQ with Guy we dont know what the context could specifically mean.

I was not arguing about the fact that primordials can revive after destruction of Heart Core without any alterations to their personality

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Also why the hell do the primals only have overtime resurrection. I thought their revival should work instantly because they are different from true dragons or is that only for Diablo ? I don't know why Guy doesn't even have it

Was too lazy to find statements from earlier volumes but V23 clarified it once again:

演算特化とはつまり、魔法に特化した形態という意味なのだ。防御は『多重結界』によって補えるので、様々な局面によっては強化されたようなものであった。ただしそれも、時と場合による。まさに今回のような場合においては、非常に判断に迷うのだ。演算に特化させた意識を全力でヴェルザードに向ける以上、本体は完全に無防備となる。リムルを──そしてディアブロを信じていなければ、とてもではないが取れない作戦だった。それなら、テスタロッサやカレラ達を残して守らせればいいのでは──という話になるが、それはギィの誇りが許さない。リムルが大丈夫だと判断したのに、ギィが不安に思うなど有り得ない話なのだ。
（まあよ。最悪、死んじまっても、それはそん時の話だぜ）
敗北し、自身が消滅する事になったとしても、最悪数百年以上かかる事もあるが復活可能なのだ。

The "hundred years" is at worse but it still gives the general idea that it's overtime normally too.

 

[Cipher72]

It could be talking about battle experience his battle IQ / so on

Second part of my comment, that aside where are you even getting this BIQ equivalence ? Does having better BIQ make your connection to the Great Spirit stronger ? Did I skip some chapters ?
Let me clear it up a bit for you
This is the full scan (yes I used light mode because I am in a hurry, sue me)

Let's go over what we know

• Primordials can survive Heart Core Destruction
• If their Heart core is destroyed by another person they become the subordinate of the victor after resurrection
  
  
• Gii can destroy heart cores
• Primordials take time to resurrect
  (Can get the scans for this if really necessary)
• Gii can't make Noir his subordinate
• Gii says Noir can resurrect instantly
  

  Diablo was a very special demon. Even if he were to be eliminated here, he would revive instantly. Knowing this well, Guy did not fall for Diablo's taunts.

So what does all of these tell you ?
Diablo has better BIQ ?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Isn't it to make it certain he revives rather than risking it?

It can alternatively be explained with Initialize Heaven; only the True Dragons would be reborn in the new world (due to their immortality being dependent on God/Holy Spirit), his "friends" (which would include Guy) wouldn't. Based on that it's fair to assume Veldanava has ways to bypass the primordials' immortality.

何故ならば、〝天地崩滅覇界(イニシャライズ・ヘブン)〟では選別が出来ないからだ。再構築される次代の世界へと、友人達を連れて行けなくなるのである。それにまだ、愛するルシアの〝因子 を〟 集め終えていなかった。イヴァラージェはヴェルダナーヴァの半身であり、〝天地崩滅覇界(イニシャライズ・ヘブン)〟を経ても生き残るだろうが、完全なルシアには程遠いだろう。失われた『虚無崩壊』があれば、全ての世界を取り込んで情報の洗い出しも可能だっただろうが、今のヴェルダナーヴァには不可能な技術だ。世界が消滅してしまえば、ルシアの〝情報子 も〟 失われてしまうのだった。そういう訳で〝天地崩滅覇界(イニシャライズ・ヘブン)〟を用いるかどうかは、ヴェルダナーヴァとしても苦渋の決断となる。ただし、難しく考える必要はない。不完全であろうが、ルシアはルシアだ。ヴェルダナーヴァが勝利すれば、それは正しい選択だったという事になるのだ。新たな世界は、今の世界よりもマシであろう。約束の場所に辿り着いた者達と一緒に、より完全な世界を創るつもりだった。弟妹であるヴェルザード達も〝竜種〟なので、新世界で再び誕生するだろう。記憶が引き継がれないように処理しておけば、以前のようにヴェルダナーヴァを慕ってくれるはずだ。

Part of it, the one we need, was translated by raiki:

Because in “Heaven and Earth Annihilation Overlord Realm (Initialize Heaven)” selection cannot be performed. As a result, he would be unable to take his friends along to the next generation world that is to be reconstructed.
Moreover, he had not yet finished gathering the factors of his beloved Lucia.
Ivaraje is one half of Veldanava, and even after passing through “Heaven and Earth Annihilation Overlord Realm (Initialize Heaven),” he will survive, but he will be far from being a complete Lucia.
Source

 

[Mizuki67]

Second part of my comment, that aside where are you even getting this BIQ equivalence ? Does having better BIQ make your connection to the Great Spirit stronger ? Did I skip some chapters ?
Let me clear it up a bit for you
This is the full scan (yes I used light mode because I am in a hurry, sue me)

Let's go over what we know

• Primordials can survive Heart Core Destruction
• If their Heart core is destroyed by another person they become the subordinate of the victor after resurrection
  
  
• Gii can destroy heart cores
• Primordials take time to resurrect
  (Can get the scans for this if really necessary)
• Gii can't make Noir his subordinate
• Gii says Noir can resurrect instantly

So what does all of these tell you ?
Diablo has better BIQ ?

Okay this make sense now. Just preparing yall for counter argument

 

[Cipher72]

Okay this make sense now. Just preparing yall for counter argument

 

[MrTayman616]

It can alternatively be explained with Initialize Heaven; only the True Dragons would be reborn in the new world (due to their immortality being dependent on God/Holy Spirit), his "friends" (which would include Guy) wouldn't. Based on that it's fair to assume Veldanava has ways to bypass the primordials' immortality.

With this ability, sure. But this doesn't apply for individual kills imo nor means he definitely has methods other than this to bypass them. It'd still be just possibly for anything other than this with the statement in the thread.

If there isn't any clarification about it, i still think it's just a "possibly" rating. (with the exception of Initialize Heaven)

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

With this ability, sure. But this doesn't apply for individual kills imo nor means he definitely has methods other than this to bypass them. It'd still be just possibly for anything other than this with the statement in the thread.

If there isn't any clarification about it, i still think it's just a "possibly" rating. (with the exception of Initialize Heaven)

Intialize Heaven is just an art that destroys everything, down to info particles. Art as in a technique to use your raw power.

It isn't said to have any other special effect, rather it lacks special effects (such as the Selection effect of Beginning Eden) and it's not a skill either, so there's no reason to assume that resurrection negation is unique to it, when in essence the art itself is just "Veldanava destroys everything". The difference between it and normal attacks would be "destroys everything vs destroys specific things"

 

[Vesxpura]

i think u mean regeneration not resurrection

 

[MrTayman616]

Intialize Heaven is just an art that destroys everything, down to info particles. Art as in a technique to use your raw power.

It isn't said to have any other special effect, rather it lacks special effects (such as the Selection effect of Beginning Eden) and it's not a skill either, so there's no reason to assume that resurrection negation is unique to it, when in essence the art itself is just "Veldanava destroys everything".

...This doesn't make sense to me. If the art itself is just "Veldanava destroys everything", this means Veldanava doesn't even have to use this art and he can just select what he'll hit, making this absolutely useless. Just don't attack other dragons :d

---

Is there a proof that this FULLY relies on raw power and just based on the normal capabilities of the person? There'd be no reason for the capabilities of this ability to be reflected on his other attacks/techniques if not. There shouldn't be any addition that comes with this ability beyond the user's casual ability.

Just my opinion though, dunno what staff thinks about it :d

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

i think u mean regeneration not resurrection

It's resurrection. Currently primordials have it accepted as resurrection since in-verse it's said they resurrect.

...This doesn't make sense to me. If the art itself is just "Veldanava destroys everything", this means Veldanava doesn't even have to use this art and he can just select what he'll hit, making this absolutely useless. Just don't attack other dragons :d

Intialize Heaven as an art is just a name for an attack that nukes everything instead of specific things. If he doesn't nuke everything it's a normal attack

For reference, just swinging your sword in a certain way is also classified as an "Art" so....

---

Is there a proof that this FULLY relies on raw power and just based on the normal capabilities of the person? There'd be no reason for the capabilities of this ability to be reflected on his other attacks/techniques if not. There shouldn't be any addition that comes with this ability beyond the user's casual ability.

Just my opinion though, dunno what staff thinks about it :d

There is rather the lack of evidence that suggests so. You see, Beginning Eden is a Divine Miracle where Veldanava uses Void Collapse (a type of energy generated through a skill) to do nuking/remaking, cuz Void Collapse is, as the special energy it is, be used to both protect something as a barrier and destroy something.

Initialize Heaven is for when he doesn't have Void Collapde, so the only thing we would logically have that can produce the result of all creation destruction is... His own raw power/energy.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

It's resurrection. Currently primordials have it accepted as resurrection since in-verse it's said they resurrect.

Intialize Heaven as an art is just a name for an attack that nukes everything instead of specific things. If he doesn't nuke everything it's a normal attack

For reference, just swinging your sword in a certain way is also classified as an "Art" so....

There is rather the lack of evidence that suggests so. You see, Beginning Eden is a Divine Miracle where Veldanava uses Void Collapse (a type of energy generated through a skill) to do nuking/remaking, cuz Void Collapse is, as the special energy it is, be used to both protect something as a barrier and destroy something.

Initialize Heaven is for when he doesn't have Void Collapde, so the only thing we would logically have that can produce the result of all creation destruction is... His own raw power/energy.

Adding on to this, you can ask add the effects of skills to regular attacks. So even if we assume IH uses a skill, Veldanava should be able to replicate that effect onto his regular attacks too:

Abyss Annihilation, like I just mentioned, was destructive enough to affect the very future of this planet, so it was pretty much off the table to start with. I bring it up because it’s one of the strongest skills out there in terms of sheer power…but I really couldn’t think of anything stronger than that which targets individuals. Disintegration could compare to it, albeit barely, but otherwise the writing was on the wall. Nuclear Cannon and other handy single-target nuclear magic couldn’t hold a candle to Disintegration anyway. And I could enhance any strike with an ultimate skill of mine, but if my opponent had an ultimate, too, he could deal with that. Really, I wasn’t sure I had anything against this guy.
OTL V19C1
________________
The ‘Abyss Annihilation’ that I just mentioned had a destructive power that could affect the entire planet, so it couldn’t be used anyway. However, I used it as an example because it was one the highest classes of magic in terms of power. When it came to anti-personnel magic, I couldn’t really think of anything that could surpass it. ‘Disintegration’ was barely comparable to it, and anything else would just be guessing. The simple anti-personnel nuclear magic: Nuclear Cannon, was not nearly as powerful as Disintegration…Even if an ultimate skill was used to increase the power, it could be dealt with if the opponent also had an ultimate skill. Even without it, there was no way to make it hit.
Slimereader

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

The arguments make sense to me. If the character in question can add their resurrection negation effect on other attacks, there would be no need for a possibility rating.

If you want me to tag specific staff, let me know.
Tell me their names.

 

[Vesxpura]

It's resurrection. Currently primordials have it accepted as resurrection since in-verse it's said they resurrect.

i mean resurrection doesnt have types but if its accepted its whtv ig

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

The arguments make sense to me. If the character in question can add their resurrection negation effect on other attacks, there would be no need for a possibility rating.

If you want me to tag specific staff, let me know.
Tell me their names.

Thank you. In that case, could you please ping @Elizhaa , @SomebodyData , @DarkDragonMedeus and @KingTempest

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

Your help is appreciated here
@Elizhaa
@SomebodyData
@DarkDragonMedeus
@KingTempest

 

[Ultimuru]

Hyperguy's arguments makes sense to me. I agree.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

Hyperguy's arguments makes sense to me. I agree2.