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This is a god-awful example and you know it... like, maybe if this was... oh I don't know, a timeline where Mortal Kombat 1 was the only one we ever got, but it actively has story and said story is not based on the brutality and shit.
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An Attempt to bring back a Verse (Terrible Mouse)
- Thread starter Ruby_R_Dracula
- Start date
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- Tags
- terrible mouse
Greg_the_master_of_gods
He/Him- 127
- 76
I don't know what you're talking about.
H3110l12345I20
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Gore and brutality is treated as a factor even when it's non-existent in the content acceptance rules because some people (and Ant explicitly on his user profile) because we're naturally conditioned believe it's bad. But at least Bambu is arguing from the rules rather than "morality should be a broad unspoken acceptance rule based off on subjective or objective moral standards in some vague cases."
The whole point of the site first and foremost is to powerscale and index a variety of fictional franchises (including ones with disturbing but not hentai level content), if you all want morality as a rule for verse acceptance then why didn't you guys put morality in from the start? Is everyongoing to socially enforce unwritten or written rule if you could enforce it?
The whole point of the site first and foremost is to powerscale and index a variety of fictional franchises (including ones with disturbing but not hentai level content), if you all want morality as a rule for verse acceptance then why didn't you guys put morality in from the start? Is everyongoing to socially enforce unwritten or written rule if you could enforce it?
AyOgUyS
He/Him- 2,779
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Idk about everything else but this point specifically doesn't work. You can discuss Invincible's story, themes, and characters without diving into the gore. You can index their capabilities and powers without showing the gore at all. It's quite feasible to do so.
Greg_the_master_of_gods
He/Him- 127
- 76
Yeah that one wasn't my best try honestly
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Should I ask Sannse about it? I think that she told us that an incredible distasteful gore verse falls under level 4 and should be deleted previously.
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Well, wouldn't hurt getting an official fandom edictShould I ask Sannse about it? I think that she told us that an incredible distasteful gore verse falls under level 4 and should be deleted previously.
Tho from what has been raised so far, I don't think this verse falls to Level 4. And seemingly Bambu also believes so, but that it's almost on the line. (Of course, he should clarify if I'm misunderstanding him)
SomebodyData also doesn't believe we should keep the verse out.
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I understand that.Okay. I will ask Sannse, but I am personally very uncomfortable with our site featuring a "story" almost entirely focused on malevolently sadistic child-torture gore.
For me at least, it's way more important for us to not try to police* (edit: what I mean with this, our job/purpose is to index the statistics of these fictional characters, regardless of what the specific fiction portrays or entails, and that's what we should stick with) artistic expression (and worse still, censor it, which is even more important for me personally). As long as it is legal and isn't against the rules (including those of notability and the ability to be indexable at all), it should be fine.
Of course, if we want to revise our rules even further, now that's a different discussion.
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Would it be possible to ask with more neutral inquiries? Since presenting it with loaded buzzwords is probably gonna not give something a fair chance and potentially portray it infinitely worse than what it is.Okay. I will ask Sannse, but I am personally very uncomfortable with our site featuring a "story" almost entirely focused on malevolently sadistic child-torture gore.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
Joke Battles
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You have it right. I think we should allow Terrible Mouse.
Regarding Sannse... I don't really care, truthfully. I don't think this falls against their policies (or, at least, I'd be surprised if it did explicitly). I think this more or less falls to us to decide whether this is so vile as to call this the line in the sand. I don't think it is, and have voted as such, but I do think it's pretty vile.
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I have received a reply from Sannse of the Fandom staff.
"Hello Antvasima
This is a tricky line. We allow a lot if the gore is fictional. For example, we have a Saw Wiki and a Final Destination Wiki, both of which are very gory. However, we have previously closed a couple of Japanese Manga wikis that were very violent. The difference was largely that the extreme gore and violence was also sexual. I also recently deleted a story that was very gory and violent and used a children's character as the victim (MLP). Real gore is definitely not allowed.
The content rating scale really only covers sexual content. But there is a line with gore, and I would say detailed torture and murder of children crosses it. Especially if it has any sexual elements. Basically, if it's gory and fictional it's okay, until it becomes torture po rn or shock content.
I can't speak to the specific case, as I don't know the content. But if it gets explicit with violence against children, it probably crosses the line.
I hope that helps
Regards,
-- Sannse"
"Hello Antvasima
This is a tricky line. We allow a lot if the gore is fictional. For example, we have a Saw Wiki and a Final Destination Wiki, both of which are very gory. However, we have previously closed a couple of Japanese Manga wikis that were very violent. The difference was largely that the extreme gore and violence was also sexual. I also recently deleted a story that was very gory and violent and used a children's character as the victim (MLP). Real gore is definitely not allowed.
The content rating scale really only covers sexual content. But there is a line with gore, and I would say detailed torture and murder of children crosses it. Especially if it has any sexual elements. Basically, if it's gory and fictional it's okay, until it becomes torture po rn or shock content.
I can't speak to the specific case, as I don't know the content. But if it gets explicit with violence against children, it probably crosses the line.
I hope that helps
Regards,
-- Sannse"
Greg_the_master_of_gods
He/Him- 127
- 76
A whole lot of nothing was said.I have received a reply from Sannse of the Fandom staff.
"Hello Antvasima
This is a tricky line. We allow a lot if the gore is fictional. For example, we have a Saw Wiki and a Final Destination Wiki, both of which are very gory. However, we have previously closed a couple of Japanese Manga wikis that were very violent. The difference was largely that the extreme gore and violence was also sexual. I also recently deleted a story that was very gory and violent and used a children's character as the victim (MLP). Real gore is definitely not allowed.
The content rating scale really only covers sexual content. But there is a line with gore, and I would say detailed torture and murder of children crosses it. Especially if it has any sexual elements. Basically, if it's gory and fictional it's okay, until it becomes torture po rn or shock content.
I can't speak to the specific case, as I don't know the content. But if it gets explicit with violence against children, it probably crosses the line.
I hope that helps
Regards,
-- Sannse"
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Well, what was said is that Terrible Mouse ain't fit for Fandom due to the extreme explicit violence against children thing. So...
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Stop being rude. It is possible to understand a context from her reply.
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I do not think any of this involves Terrible Mouse. The characters are still all cartoony like in HTF and are not involving detailed gore like that one MLP AU (I know what she's talking about, I used to watch those kind of contents as a pre-teen while checking for creepypastas, some were genuinely ****** up excuses to spam gore sensessly), and it does not really involve real organs.I have received a reply from Sannse of the Fandom staff.
"Hello Antvasima
This is a tricky line. We allow a lot if the gore is fictional. For example, we have a Saw Wiki and a Final Destination Wiki, both of which are very gory. However, we have previously closed a couple of Japanese Manga wikis that were very violent. The difference was largely that the extreme gore and violence was also sexual. I also recently deleted a story that was very gory and violent and used a children's character as the victim (MLP). Real gore is definitely not allowed.
The content rating scale really only covers sexual content. But there is a line with gore, and I would say detailed torture and murder of children crosses it. Especially if it has any sexual elements. Basically, if it's gory and fictional it's okay, until it becomes torture po rn or shock content.
I can't speak to the specific case, as I don't know the content. But if it gets explicit with violence against children, it probably crosses the line.
I hope that helps
Regards,
-- Sannse"
I'd still say that Art the Clown is easily far worse than anything the Terrible Mouse can give, given it does involve real gore lol.
Greg_the_master_of_gods
He/Him- 127
- 76
i wasn't trying to be rude, i genuinely read it and could reach to 0 conclusions, but i'm bad at getting context that isn't directly said to my face, i just thought it was inconclusive, sorry if i looked rude.Stop being rude. It is possible to understand a context from her reply.
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But where is the limit? Because, like, they allow The Boys here (Comic) which has things like cannibalism with babies.
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Okay. Thank you for the information. What do our staff members here think?
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Please inform Sannse that Terrible Mouse is more of a Cartoon in the vein of Happy Tree Friends just with dialogue to go with the shock violence stuff, and that it does currently have a wiki on FANDOM.Stop being rude. It is possible to understand a context from her reply.
Greg_the_master_of_gods
He/Him- 127
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Okay. No problem.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
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If Sannse knows what we're talking about here, and understands what Terrible Mouse is, and still it is suggested to be unfit for Fandom, then I guess there isn't much we can do, though I am surprised and a bit disappointed at this outcome.
Happy Tree Friends has been mentioned a few times. Its Fandom wiki is noticeably polished, and one feels there is a decent chance Fandom has probably internally prodded the matter before. I assume HTF is perfectly fine, even if it does go for childish aesthetics with its gore.
I don't think it involves real gore, in the sense that Sannse was talking about, but it is pretty bad and extreme. Terrifier does have a wiki, but it's so small so as to certainly have avoided Fandom notice; I guess I don't really know how they'd feel about it. It doesn't show the on-screen death of children but it isn't even an "implied" thing, either. The children are definitely sadistically murdered the same as everyone else. Terrible Mouse brings that straight to "torture", though. I think Terrible Mouse is strictly worse.
If I am to interpret it, I think the most significant element is, again, the torture element of Terrible Mouse, mixed with the fact that it is specifically and intentionally and chiefly the torture of children. They defined the line as such. I don't know how they'd feel about the death of children, but with the line defined as including torture, I presume the simple notion of children being killed is not enough.
Happy Tree Friends has been mentioned a few times. Its Fandom wiki is noticeably polished, and one feels there is a decent chance Fandom has probably internally prodded the matter before. I assume HTF is perfectly fine, even if it does go for childish aesthetics with its gore.
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I just hope that if it really violates the Fandom rules, there's an explanation as to why Terrible Mouse also has a Wiki.
And it seems to be very well done.
Greg_the_master_of_gods
He/Him- 127
- 76
Waited until the last possible moment to say the most important thing.
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Isn't that common knowledge?
Greg_the_master_of_gods
He/Him- 127
- 76
It's your will to farm some aura.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
Joke Battles
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It's incredibly tiny, and really only like... mediocre. It's not as bare as Terrifier, but I doubt Fandom is even aware of it.
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It would help a lot if we could get clarification on that. Is the detailed murder of children not allowed at all, or does it have to be torture, and what's the difference?
If the only concern is the graphic depiction of violence against children then we do indeed need to reevaluate a lot of verses, even quite popular ones.
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This is a post i found regarding a person's experience with this verse
The scrapped version of bullied rabbit would've made so many more sense. We could've seen so many things like how the animals in the hospital met eachother, why Leima gets trauma from being "ugly", Lorna's personality that is outside of murdering people and hating human, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY we couldve seen a fight seen with Damm and Lorna, and Damm beating her up, AND how Damm ended up in the hospital and met Leima, but ******* Gutian had to scrap ALL those peak ideas just for the main bullied rabbit to be summed up about some random dude ****** his sister to cope because he failed a magic trick with his lover. Ngl Gutian has to make another bullied rabbit or an origin of how the main characters met because this would've been at least decent/good world building and story telling, and as of right now terriblemouse, is ASS in backstories. Gutian def made bullied rabbit incest and **** just for more shock scenes atpThis isn't spoken about enough bc Gutian scrapped ts a long time ago back in summer 2025 and it would've made good sense and lore to the story
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Alright. I am not in the position to make any moral judgements, but it does seem like from all serious accounts that the primary intention of the verse is just to shock people and be as depraved as possible, even actively sacrificing narrative elements to do so.
From that perspective I think it does in spirit cross into the fourth category, though I can admit it is borderline.
From that perspective I think it does in spirit cross into the fourth category, though I can admit it is borderline.
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When it comes to gore, I think in my humble opinion that the intent behind it is relevant too. Most of the violence in Invincible is framed as tragic in some form, same with Game of Thrones and the big slasher films like Friday the 13th, Halloween and Scream. Even Saw and Final Destination usually depict the violence in such a way, although Final Destination does sometimes portray it as funny when it happens to unlikable characters, which is a bit more questionable. Overall those verses want the audience to see the victims as just that: victims to be sympathised with. A verse that depicts gore and such as nihilistic fun would be different.
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Thunderman101
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sata andagi
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Would somebody please be willing to clarify in our content ratings scale page regarding that gore is judged by similar qualifications of inclusion in our wiki as sexual content, in accordance with Fandom's rules in this regard?
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