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An Attempt to bring back a Verse (Terrible Mouse)

Given what Bambu said above, I still greatly prefer if we avoid featuring this verse. Why is it so important for some people that we include it? It seems like we have deleted hentai verses for lesser reasons than this. 🙏
 
Ruby_R_Dracula said:
I uh idk.
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Because if those scenes are so intrinsic to the verse and its scaling, then yeah, maybe it's best to not feature it.

The main difference with the above and the nuance with our acceptable content scale, is that a verse can have mature content displayed, but when the entire thing is just edgy for the sake of edgyness, to the point one cannot separate it from the indexing (like many sexually matured games, and unlike some of the examples that keep being brought up), then it's not something worth to keep and risk fandom stepping in.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Because if those scenes are so intrinsic to the verse and its scaling, then yeah, maybe it's best to not feature it.
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what does intrinsic mean.

Anyways, the main feat the verse scales to (AP) is from knocking down metal doors, I think I've only used like two of the gore stuff for the AP section just to lengthen it.

one of the abilities uses a pretty torturous scene to support the Immo type 2, but I don't think it would affect the ability much if I did cut that out.

I think the only one that genuinely needs one of the gore feats is the LS, but I'm pretty sure there's smth in the verse that I could replace that feat with
 
Ruby_R_Dracula said:
what does intrinsic mean.
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LephyrTheRevanchist said:
but when the entire thing is just edgy for the sake of edgyness, to the point one cannot separate it from the indexing
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So, if one were to index it, is it needed at all to feature the gore? Is it unavoidable when discussing the verse? (Beyond people just going "haha this verse has gore") Does the verse fall apart when you attempt to remove the gore and child abuse stuff?
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
but when the entire thing is just edgy for the sake of edgyness, to the point one cannot separate it from the indexing (like many sexually matured games, and unlike some of the examples that keep being brought up), then it's not something worth to keep and risk fandom stepping in.
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Antvasima said:
Given what Bambu said above, I still greatly prefer if we avoid featuring this verse. Why is it so important for some people that we include it? It seems like we have deleted hentai verses for lesser reasons than this. 🙏
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People, after watching some bits of it I don't really think it's that terrible, we have Happy Tree Friends which arguably even worse in terms of graphic violence for the sake of it.

I believe that's a massive double standard ngl.
 
StrymULTRA said:
People, after watching some bits of it I don't really think it's that terrible, we have Happy Tree Friends which arguably even worse in terms of graphic violence.

I believe that's a massive double standard ngl.
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Your opinion is noted, but you have been very unhelpful in this thread so far and keep bringing other verses. Other verses are evaluated on their own merit. If something fits or doesn't fit, it needs it's own thread to be discussed. So I will ask you to drop this. Evaluate the verse on its own with our rules in mind.
 
Honestly, I still want to know which VSBattle rules this verse violates. You know, some explicit rule on a specific page, not just personal opinions. Like, since when are we not allowed verses to include gore? Lol
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
So, if one were to index it, is it needed at all to feature the gore?
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no not really, alot of the good feats that I remember are not the Gorey ones
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Is it unavoidable when discussing the verse?
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no
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
(Beyond people just going "haha this verse has gore") Does the verse fall apart when you attempt to remove the gore and child abuse stuff?
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no,
the story would have stayed the same, when the gore is gone, the story about a bunch of teenagers escaping a hospital filled while being chased by a deadly mouse, would have not changed at all
 
Ruby_R_Dracula said:
no not really, alot of the good feats that I remember are not the Gorey ones

no

no,
the story would have stayed the same, when the gore is gone, the story about a bunch of teenagers escaping a hospital filled while being chased by a deadly mouse, would have not changed at all
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Then at least for me, it should be fine to be indexed.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Your opinion is noted, but you have been very unhelpful in this thread so far and keep bringing other verses. Other verses are evaluated on their own merit. If something fits or doesn't fit, it needs it's own thread to be discussed. So I will ask you to drop this. Evaluate the verse on its own with our rules in mind.
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Yeah because the thing has never been an issue until now just because Ant doesn't like that one specific thing.

This wiki has been constantly been called out right because of these double standards, because everyone who keeps saying "it needs its own thread" will never do a thread on it, when the issue at hand is the same. This is something I've seen it happening ever since joining the Wiki in 2019, so I hope you understand that I'm kinda frustrated with this dismissive behavior.

Regardless, what I've been saying is that the verse doesn't really break any rule on the Content Rating, it lacks explicit sexual content and the main thing is violence which is a non issue, and never was until now for some reason.

You all are not giving a good reason besides whatever paranoid belief that Fandom will step in when it indeed allows entire Wikis on these gory franchises to happen.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
Honestly, I still want to know which VSBattle rules this verse violates. You know, some explicit rule on a specific page, not just personal opinions. Like, since when are we not allowed verses to include gore? Lol
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Exactly this. What standards does it actually violate? It fits every rule required for a verse to be index;
-Notability: It exceeds 10M views iirc, which according to the notability standards, is more than enough
-Rating Scale: It doesn't reach 4, which is hentai/pornographic shenanigans, and which is the only rating we do not allow.
-Powerscaling Verse: It is not a powerscaling verse whatsoever, so it is fine.
-MemeVerse: It is not a joke or a meme verse from what I'm seeing, and it has an actual storyline that apparently a lot of people care about.

I really do not understand. Is it just because it is gorey that we do not want it in the wiki? Why, and what standards mention this?
 
StrymULTRA said:
Damn right before my reply 😭
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Why the hell did you think I asked my literal first question on this thread? Which all you did then is go "well this other thing"

Your entire rant was wasting time. Of course you're frustrated that other threads aren't made to discuss or staff just outright dismiss things, because when being asked stuff instead of actually providing answers, you (as in, every person that always brings this bs up whenever staff are trying to evaluate) just complain and refuses to give a straight answer.

Next time, if you don't actually know, instead of choosing to "call out double standards", actually show WHY they are double standards and that the particular verse actually does fit for our wiki.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
Honestly, I still want to know which VSBattle rules this verse violates. You know, some explicit rule on a specific page, not just personal opinions. Like, since when are we not allowed verses to include gore? Lol
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Rikimarox2 said:
Exactly this. What standards does it actually violate? It fits every rule required for a verse to be index;
-Notability: It exceeds 10M views iirc, which according to the notability standards, is more than enough
-Rating Scale: It doesn't reach 4, which is hentai/pornographic shenanigans, and which is the only rating we do not allow.
-Powerscaling Verse: It is not a powerscaling verse whatsoever, so it is fine.
-MemeVerse: It is not a joke or a meme verse from what I'm seeing, and it has an actual storyline that apparently a lot of people care about.

I really do not understand. Is it just because it is gorey that we do not want it in the wiki? Why, and what standards mention this?
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Because it's not just "well it's gorey", it's about "the entire verse is just an excuse to have ****** up things and that isn't suitable for our wiki, there isn't any purpose or artistry beyond just having gratuitous cruelty"

That's textbook Level 4 on our acceptable content rating. The page goes over sexual shit because that's the most explicit example, but it's not the only one (and anyone with two fingers in front of them wouldn't hyper focus on the sexuality part when the page is actually about mature ratings in general, with such a statement directly on the rule, with Level 3 being also quite straightforward with the comparison to an R-rated movie)

Actually show why this verse doesn't go to Level 4. Actually show that the cruelty and graphic stuff isn't all that there is to it, that you can remove it and nothing actually changes. You can remove the scans of organ shit from our Invincible pages, yet the verse continues on like nothing happened. Because that gore isn't the focus, it's artistic liberty to show how serious a fight scene is where the heroes are completely unprepared to fight these threats. You can discuss Invincible, its stories and theme without having to mention at all the gore stuff. That is the difference we are looking for.

Edit: And while I myself keep repeating gore, this applies to all manner of mature content. Which as Bambu brought, this verse does contain sexual stuff too.
 
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This verse is weird. I looked it up and watched some things for the hell of it and... yeesh...

So, I've noticed examples keep getting brought up(IE Happy Tree Friends), and those are sort of different, as you'd expect. Terrible Mouse is torture ****, like, beyond Saw and into Red Room levels.(don't look up what a Red Room is...) On some other research, It does have a wiki on fandom, but so does Monster Girl Quest, and that's considered level 4 even if you can leave out the blatant smut scenes for profiles.

It's more like a borderline case, we're not gonna get hit by a drone strike via FANDOM for it being on the wiki, but this is like the worst parts of 40K and Warhammer Fantasy, except it's basically the entire verse with little of the other stuff to make it indexable.

I'm neutral overall, but I'll shed absolutely 0 tears if it gets called level 4 because it's on the line like tightrope for me.
 
Looking between Happy Tree Friends and this series, honestly not sure if the 'brutality' gap is enough to really justify not allowing Terrible Mouse on the wiki. Maybe I'm just not jaded enough to tell the difference but both seem as gorey to me.

I'd allow it on the wiki since I don't think we can really justify keeping it off when we have these other verses, basically.
 
Honestly, I don't get why this verse in particular shouldn't be indexed when we have Happy Tree Friends here on the wiki. We also have stuff like Made in Abyss , known for showing kids suffering in a very explicit way.
 
Well, based on what I've seen above, I consider this a level 4, and as such irredeemable content that should definitely not be featured in our wiki, period.

If other content also crosses this threshold of pure diseased vileness, we should not feature that either. 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
Well, based on what I've seen above, I consider this a level 4, and as such irredeemable content that should definitely not be featured in our wiki, period. 🙏
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First Antvasima L i saw, my disappointment is indescribable, level 4 just describes high sexual content, not gore, and i don't see anybody saying there's high sexual content on the disgusting rat verse.
 
From what I recall, we have considered gore fully comparable to sexual content to remove verses on at least one other occasion, and it is logically often even morally worse.

This verse seems completely morally reprehensible and indefensible to feature in our wiki, and it would also likely expand its audience if we did so.

Anyway, if necessary I can ask Sannse from the Fandom staff for input and expanded clarifications for our acceptable content ratings text, but I am quite certain that she will agree with me in this regard. 🙏
 
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Then start deleting the other violent verses, delete happy tree friends, delete invincible because multiple people appear completely destroyed, delete jason because it's a guy killing a bunch of teenagers with gore in some parts, there's even a link to a comic image of two people being cut in half and their guts flying in his page, delete the art the clown page because his whole deal is a lot of gore, delete patrick bateman because all he does is killing people brutally, there's a lot of verses to be deleted antvasima, delete them already if you're worried about safety in the site dude.
 
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Antvasima said:
This verse seems completely morally reprehensible and indefensible to feature in our wiki, and it would also likely expand its audience if we did so.
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Ant ffs it's not like we'll become the backstory of some serial killers if we do, you gotta stop treating this Wiki as if it's important.

The verse already has over 20 million views in total across platforms, we ain't contributing much lol.

Also, yeah Happy Tree Friends main thing is mainly about cute anthropomorphic animals brutally killing each other over petty shit in self contained episodes, if Terrible Mouse cannot be featured for this reason then HTF should also go.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Ant ffs it's not like we'll become the backstory of some serial killers if we do, you gotta stop treating this Wiki as if it's important.

The verse already has over 20 million views in total across platforms, we ain't contributing much lol.

Also, yeah Happy Tree Friends main thing is mainly about cute anthropomorphic animals brutally killing each other over petty shit in self contained episodes, if Terrible Mouse cannot be featured for this reason then HTF should also go.
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I also don't think Happy Tree Friends is the best comparison. To the best of my recollection, Happy Tree Friends lacks the sexual content that Terrible Mouse does seem to have (just not in an amount I'd agree with calling a 4 on the scale).

I will state plainly that I do think it should be reinstated, I think this sets a bad precedent even if the verse's content is incredibly borderline, but I also don't think it's as cut-and-dry as its defenders are suggesting. To the best of my knowledge, including all examples included here, Terrible Mouse seems to be the bottom of the barrel of content currently on VSBW in its respective categories.
 
from what I'm getting at rn

it seems 3 staff are fine with keeping the verse here, with Antvasima being the only one that isn't


so is there anything else that needs to be done here?
 
Ruby_R_Dracula said:
from what I'm getting at rn

it seems 3 staff are fine with keeping the verse here, with Antvasima being the only one that isn't


so is there anything else that needs to be done here?
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We would want at least one more staff here.

It is also possible that this would be considered a matter of wiki policy, given that this involves an interpretation of the Acceptable Content Scale. While I do not suspect he will do it, it is technically entirely possible for Ant to simply veto the matter, if taken under this interpretation.

For now, get at least one more deciding staff here.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
We would want at least one more staff here.

It is also possible that this would be considered a matter of wiki policy, given that this involves an interpretation of the Acceptable Content Scale. While I do not suspect he will do it, it is technically entirely possible for Ant to simply veto the matter, if taken under this interpretation.

For now, get at least one more deciding staff here.
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It's also my understanding that this does fall under wiki policy, yeah.
 
Should I ask Sannse about it? I think that she told us that an incredible distasteful gore verse falls under level 4 and should be deleted previously. 🙏
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
That's textbook Level 4 on our acceptable content rating. The page goes over sexual shit because that's the most explicit example, but it's not the only one (and anyone with two fingers in front of them wouldn't hyper focus on the sexuality part when the page is actually about mature ratings in general, with such a statement directly on the rule, with Level 3 being also quite straightforward with the comparison to an R-rated movie)
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This doesn't even make sense BECAUSE IT'S NOT WRITTEN. The page cites, describes, and gives examples only of sexual content.

And all the verse examples refer to sexual content.

Even the only example from Level 4 is HENTAI, and Terrible Mouse doesn't even have sexual content close to that.

You are literally citing rules that don't exist, that aren't written.
Level 4: Extreme - Verses that have high sexual content as the main focus of the material. Such verses are pornographic in nature and strictly unsuitable for the wiki. The majority of the media content is sexual for verses that fall under this rating.

Examples: Many hentai series.
Click to expand...

Where in this text is it written about gore? Where are the examples of verses rejected for containing too much gore? If this rule about gore exists, just literally cite the text where it's said instead of inventing things.

You're asking me to read a page that only talks about sexual content and somehow supernaturally interpret that the page talks about something other than sexual content when that's never written anywhere. I'm not a psychic, you know?

Antvasima said:
Should I ask Sannse about it? I think that she told us that an incredible distasteful gore verse falls under level 4 and should be deleted previously. 🙏
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So, should we delete Mortal Kombat then?
 
Antvasima said:
Should I ask Sannse about it? I think that she told us that an incredible distasteful gore verse falls under level 4 and should be deleted previously. 🙏
Click to expand...
Ask her about Happy Tree Friends too. Since while HTF lacks any sexual things whatsoever, it's still brutal for the sake of brutal.
 
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