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Can we stop discussing Hazbin Hotel? What was or wasn't accepted there is irrelevant. I already said that weapons were created by Cain to harm the humans.
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The Amazing Downgraded Circus (TADC Downgrades)
- Thread starter TheOrangeGuy09
- Start date
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we should downgrade Sword Art Online too
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- Thread starter
- #83
It is actually relevant. The whole point of the thread is to be consistent with what is currently accepted.
He creates everything, so by the same logic friendly Caine wouldn’t make explosions lethal.
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Also, Kaufmo has a 9A feat and Ragatha took a beating from him.
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- #88
She literally got destroyed a hell ton dawg, surviving the attacks is not the same as withstanding.
That’s what I’m saying to do? Though that’d be via abilities and size manip, otherwise he should probably he comparable.
Eden_Warlock99
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Kaufmo just makes the stuff he touches glitch
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So are you no longer arguing for 10-A?
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Yeah but pretty damn sure he is shown as way superior by casually slamming her and harming a ton, he also defeated that Gloink Queen very easily, and there’s a reason why he is 8-C currently via upscaling from the cast.
What? The OP is saying 9-C.
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Ragatha is torn apart when she takes a blow she can't withstand; her body was still intact after taking a beating from a 9A, she just couldn't stand because of the corruption HAX.
I already mentioned that the NPCs' statement has support
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I gave two options, 10-C is just the last one, 9-C is provided before.
There’s a reason why I did separate agree-disagree-neutral for each section yk?
Randomuser3412
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You haven't counted any votes yet
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I only count staff ones
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The 10-C tier change is utterly ridiculous. Reality Equalization is a thing and its what applies here. Don't know enough about the verse to say anything about the rest but fall damage is a laughably bad argument for a downgrade, given how variable it is in what characters it affects across fiction. That is all.
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I feel like the anti-feats we see in the show can be chalked up to the fact that this is a cartoony world in which they react to things in a cartoon way. In a cartoon a character can be flattened by a door opening really fast and splattering them to a wall, but it doesn't mean they're door level- their body is just rubbery and mushy. The characters here behave the same way, but we don't rely on the lower-end cartoony showings to determine their capabilities.
As we see throughout the show, those who are more concentrated and focused can pull off more absurd feats- Jax acts as the one most in-tune with cartoony behavior throughout the show due to his motif of "this isn't real," and once she is told to stop acting realistically, Pomni can fire a gun perfectly and even bounce a bullet off multiple walls in an inconceivable way.
As we see throughout the show, those who are more concentrated and focused can pull off more absurd feats- Jax acts as the one most in-tune with cartoony behavior throughout the show due to his motif of "this isn't real," and once she is told to stop acting realistically, Pomni can fire a gun perfectly and even bounce a bullet off multiple walls in an inconceivable way.
Mythic381
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Wouldn't this rather fall into their type 2 immortality territory? These stuff still actually hurt them.
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Are you aware that there is a list of tropes specifically categorized as Acceptable Breaks from Reality? Cause the guns being able to damage the characters(as well as the anti-feats in general) can easily be explained by either the Arbitrary Gun Power trope(Firearms doing different damage than they would in real life for the sake of balance), Artistic License-Physics(The creator of a work of fiction plays with the basic laws of physics in order to make the story better.), and/or the Rule of Funny(The limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief for a given element is directly proportional to its funniness.)
Randomuser3412
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this was fun (not) to read, but everything about this is just not it
Mythic381
He/Him- 2,566
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Why are you using TV Tropes for this? We accept whether or not guns/weapons are considered as anti-feats by either if there's something proving they aren't, or the amount of feats. Some verses have it as anti-feats because they regularly get harmed by it, while not having much higher tier feats, so the higher tier feats would be considered outliers. For other verses, they might have some gun anti-feats, but they would also have a lot of higher tier feats, that the outliers in question would be the guns, not the higher tier feats.
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Guns damaging the characters here is not an anti-feat because it was part of an in-universe game in which the characters were given the ability to 'lose lives' based on being shot with a bullet. One can say the guns that were created were simply made to be able to harm them for the sake of the adventure.
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Because OP's entire argument hinges on Caine's creations being limited to the statistics/attributes their real world counterparts have, even though Caine can easily adjust the parameters of his creations according to what he wants for the given adventure. So to me this just reads as an argument of incredulity.
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Yeah like, Caine can make people vegan and beam memories into their heads, why wouldn't he be able to adjust certain statistics?
Plus we see that getting to zero lives in the gun adventure just sends you to "The Loser Corner," losing the hearts is not indicative of actually having fatal damage but just how close you are to losing.
Plus we see that getting to zero lives in the gun adventure just sends you to "The Loser Corner," losing the hearts is not indicative of actually having fatal damage but just how close you are to losing.
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- #107
Did you not see Kinger falling, Ragatha getting her head blown, or holes in Jax and Pomni's bodies?
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Why do we assume the guns Caine creates in the circus abide by real-world stats when in the gun pile was also Uzi's railgun? I feel like it's easy to assume he just made the guns to be able to hurt them for the sake of the adventure.
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- #109
Then, by the same logic, he could have made all their feats, like explosion, not killing them for the sake of the adventure.
You can't have your cake and eat it.
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Isn't that just the opposite logic?
"he made guns with the purpose of being able to harm them" vs "he made every single thing in the circus as weak as possible to avoid hurting them"
doesn't it follow Occam's Razor to say that the few times they receive significant damage (which would basically just be "guns that caine created for the 'shooting each other' adventure") would be Caine messing with things, not every other time they have a feat of durability or strength being rigged?
It feels like you have to jump through more hoops to say that all the feats are invalid.
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No, it's the exact same one, if he controls feats to make them harm more, he can do it in the opposite way to make them harm less.
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I don't see how it makes more sense that the characters are naturally weak and Caine has to make adventures easy on purpose to avoid hurting them, compared to just them being naturally tough and cartoony and being able to take damage.
Feels like a misread of the narrative of the show to think that Caine is going into all his adventures thinking "the humans are very weak and the slightest breeze can harm them so I better make sure to go easy on them and keep everything as weak as possible!"
Feels like a misread of the narrative of the show to think that Caine is going into all his adventures thinking "the humans are very weak and the slightest breeze can harm them so I better make sure to go easy on them and keep everything as weak as possible!"
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"he could have made all their feats, like explosion, not killing them for the sake of the adventure"
"he can do it in the opposite way to make them harm less"
this is literally a thread in which you're attempting to downgrade the cast as low as possible by listing off a bunch of anti-feats and saying "therefore they're actually all weak"
you can't say "you're strawmanning" when I repeat back what your arguments are
"he can do it in the opposite way to make them harm less"
this is literally a thread in which you're attempting to downgrade the cast as low as possible by listing off a bunch of anti-feats and saying "therefore they're actually all weak"
you can't say "you're strawmanning" when I repeat back what your arguments are
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- #115
Geez, I wonder how a 9-C character dies to a slightest breeze!
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I'm using a thing called "hyperbole" to point out that it is silly to assume Caine is going through the effort of making everything in the adventures weak enough not to harm them rather than the cast just having natural endurance... which, y'know, already is confirmed since Gooseworx has said nothing can kill them
you're still not responding to the core of my argument and rather cherrypicking select words.
you're still not responding to the core of my argument and rather cherrypicking select words.
Randomuser3412
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I'm inclined to agree on BatFellow with this.
Not exactly like we treat gun anti-feats as super damning unless you're arguing for some crazy tier. Hell, Hellaverse didn't get downgraded past 9-A for their anti-feats, so it definitely shouldn't be used as an example here.
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Is this 4 9-A/Tier 8 calcs I see vs. TADC's just one?
Randomuser3412
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Only one or two of those scale to the low characters, who consistently get one shot by guns and swords in every single episode. Arguably a worse situation than TADC here.
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Looking back at those anti-feats I really do struggle to see how any of them are supposed to prove that these characters can't possibly scale that high. Zooble falls from a very small height and appears annoyed, we get a montage of Caine doing stuff to them most of which we don't even see the direct effects of, they appear scared of falling so... guess that automatically means they're threatened by it (irrational fears don't exist!) and the gun thing which is already talked about.
Also I completely overlooked the whole "Caine couldn't program in explosion yields in the game because the data wasn't fed to him" logic... don't really know where to start with that. Not only assumes that Caine's only data was the images we saw but ignores the fact that the Circus also has sound... and gravity... and trucks... and Uzi's railgun from Murder Drones... all things that we didn't see him get fed. How did he program in the formula for gravity witout getting it directly? Almost like we're just supposed to suspend our disbelief and understand this is not meant to be like a realistic computer simulation.
Also I completely overlooked the whole "Caine couldn't program in explosion yields in the game because the data wasn't fed to him" logic... don't really know where to start with that. Not only assumes that Caine's only data was the images we saw but ignores the fact that the Circus also has sound... and gravity... and trucks... and Uzi's railgun from Murder Drones... all things that we didn't see him get fed. How did he program in the formula for gravity witout getting it directly? Almost like we're just supposed to suspend our disbelief and understand this is not meant to be like a realistic computer simulation.
